The fuel of the future?
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1600556209668505635?s=46&t=1RAv7KMBhfOjuCaio5g5kw
Politics aside, they were closed as it was cheaper to import coal rather than extract it in the UK.
But wind and solar is discouraged by the current government, we are literally heading back to the stone age.
IIRC British coal was the cheapest deep mined coal produced in the world bar South African. Polish coal was however the least expensive to buy on the market because of Polish government subsidies. The Polish government was given an exemption by the EU to subsidize their coal industry.
Edit: After EU membership obviously
Plus, this is coking coal for producing steel. Not for burning in homes or power stations.
https://www.straterra.co.nz/lets-talk-about-coal-2/future-of-coal/making-steel-without-coal/
Is it not better to dig it out here than import it from China / Russia?
Except no steelmaker in the UK wants the coal for coking as it's to high sulphur content so presumably will be exported to places that either have better suplhur abatement technology on their coke ovens or ones that have higher sulphur emmisions limits.
Ultimately it's coal that the world would be better off leaving in situ.
The one place that unfortunately is likely to benefita lot less than some hope is Workington as mines rarely leave great legacies when they close.
Poland joined the EU on 1/05/2004. I think we can safely say that the price of Polish coal had sweet FA to do with the decline of the British coal mining industry and to frame it as such is more anti-EU propaganda from Ernie.
Coal mining in the UK was horribly uneconomic and was losing a lot of money every ton. The industry run down started really in the 60's.
This stuff is dirty and going to be exported. High quality , my asre, and they'll be asking for government bailouts/help in due course....
Which they will get, no doubt.
It has nothing to do with the EU. IIRC Polish coal was subsidised by the government long before Poland joined the EU. After joining the EU Poland was allowed to maintain its subsidy of coal.
How is that "anti-EU propaganda?!? FFS 😂
It is actually good that the EU allowed the Polish government to carry on subsidizing coal. It saved jobs and therefore probably saved the Polish government money.
The UK government didn't care about putting UK workers on the dole and destroying communities, whatever the cost**
It had **** all to do with the EU.
Edit : ** North Sea oil paid for it.
It’s just yet another example of the government shamelessly telling outright lies
There was a Tory MP on channel 4 news saying all this was opened as it was needed by the UK steel industry, which is just total bollocks. It’s all for export
Is it not better to dig it out here than import it from China / Russia?
+1
Except no steelmaker in the UK wants the coal for coking as it’s to high sulphur content so presumably will be exported to places that either have better suplhur abatement technology on their coke ovens or ones that have higher sulphur emmisions limits.
Ultimately it’s coal that the world would be better off leaving in situ.
Interesting, I thought it was for domestic use...
If it all goes for export, that would be bad IMO. No 'savings' on imported coke. We can do better than that.
IIRC the UK was importing it from Africa, so it was basically free compared to digging the dwindling seams/amounts from the UK?
Has the UK sudddenly grown big new easily accessible coal deposits? That's a hell of a brexit bonus, the tories have changed the rules of physics! lol
I imagine a judicial review is going to follow in short order.
Has the UK sudddenly grown big new coal deposits?
As far as I am aware the UK has always had massive reserves of coal. Not something necessarily publicised by Tory governments though.
And whilst South African coal imports were significant Polish coal afaik has always been more significant.
This is from 1999 :
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-firms-warn-poles-over-coal-dumping/
This article summarises why the coal won't be for UK use and won't displace any Russian imports.
Basically the quality is too poor for S****horpe coke blends and Port Talbot can only use a small percentage blending with lower sulphur coals.
Either the mine will produce very slowly, way past the point that all European steel will be low carbon (i.e. not use coking coal to make) or most of the coal will be exported.
https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20113544.cumbrian-coal-mine-will-one-uk-customer-says-top-steel-boss/
I suppose what I'm trying to say is opening new coal mines in the UK, or resurecting previously pilfered mines is not a solution to anything... it's just platitudes...probably because the donald wanted to re-open them in The USA, IMO.
A cheap vote winner for a bargain basment government, that solves no long term issues.
Most UK coal comes from the United States. Is that a better solution?
Edit: I believe that as from the end of this month all imports of russian coal will be banned. The shortfall will have to be made up.
Good straw man - very quick too!
Most UK coal comes from the United States. Is that a better solution?
No. We need to be pushing wind and solar and hydro long term, and nuclear as a short term bridge to green.
And whilst South African coal imports were significant Polish coal afaik has always been more significant.
"afaik": it isn't hard to check:
Page 75 for a graph of 2002-2014.
South Africa, Russia, China... dominate. Poland isn't worth a column and the whole EU was always beaten by Russia for the period.
No. We need to be pushing wind and solar long term, and nuclear as a short term bridge to green.
Agreed but we still need coal for certain manufacturing industries (e.g. steel) much as we will still require oil well after we are all driving electric vehicles.
Though if this coal is useless for steel production it does seem a bit odd.
I'm all for it. A few jobs. Exports. A private company so if nobody wants the coal they will go bust. If not profits to tax. All good.
Don't they need a big hole for nuclear waste?
Poland isn’t worth a colum
Yeah Polish coal had a significant effect on the UK when the UK still had functioning coal mines, as this article from 1999 which I didn't write illustrates
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-firms-warn-poles-over-coal-dumping/The situation has not remained unchanged for the last 30 years, in fact things could not have changed more. A reference was made to the situation back in the day, I made some comments with regards to that.
Though if this coal is useless for steel production it does seem a bit odd.
I think we are talking about coal fired power stations to generate nationwide electricity...
I don't think anyone's going to be too worried about artisans making bespoke kitchen kives.
No. We need to be pushing wind and solar and hydro long term, and nuclear as a short term bridge to green.
Still need coke for steel...
Still need coke for steel…
Import the steel!
Still need coke for steel…
But not this stuff...
Two of the UK’s existing steel companies have rejected the new coal, which means much of it will be exported to a world already awash with fossil fuels.
Ron Deelen, a former chief executive of British Steel, said: “This is a completely unnecessary step for the British steel industry, which is not waiting for more coal as there is enough on the free market available. The British steel industry needs green investment in electric arc furnaces and hydrogen to protect jobs and make the UK competitive.”
Thank god won't have to deal with years of uncertainty with wind power.
Mr Starmer will be getting his very best union jack out tonight.
We do still mine coal in the UK and this isn't the first new coal mine in ages, just the first deep vertical shaft one. While I'm not personally a fan I don't really understand why this is being made out to be such a big deal by either side of the argument.
Your article references one quarter in in one year, 1999, Ernie. And even in that quarter 442,000 tonnes were imported from Poland. Now have a look at total UK production for that period and total imports (10s of millions of tonnes).
Polish coal was never a problem unless politicised by a some British firms rightly moaing about the unfair competition. In volume terms Polish coal was and never has been an issue.
Use Google wisely, Ernie, just because you find one article to comfort your persoanl agenda it doesn't mean you won't get called out for grossly misleading cherry picking with an anti-Eu flavour that runs through your posting.
Thank god won’t have to deal with years of uncertainty with wind power.
Mr Starmer will be getting his very best union jack out tonight.
he's better than a tory, but that's not saying much. Nothing much at all.
We have to be realistic when we come into the next GE...racist/brexit labour voters hate Kier so what will they do? abstain? or vote lib dem? Seems a lot of labour voters hate the faux immigration scandal that's entirely the creation of all the above - so much they will vote conservative.
Kiers problem is he's too scared to take a position, just like Corbyn...and too afraid to call brexit out for the travesty it is.
I think I'll vote liberal democreats in the next GE.
Still need coke for steel…
Soon to be replaced by hydrogen as the main reductant.
I don’t really understand why this is being made out to be such a big deal by either side of the argument.
I think many people see it both as not in keeping with the Cop26 commitments and unnecessary, ie producing unwanted coal for export, so are therefore understandably opposed to it.
And on the other side of the argument the proposal's only apparent backers are the Northern Research Group of Tories MPs who are facing extinction in 2 years time.
It won't save them but I guess that they can get a bit of political capital out of the scheme by claiming that a Tory government made a substantial investment commitment in the North which presumably an incoming Labour government will scrap.
Tories sticking up for the Northern working-class will be thwarted by the Labour Party.......boo, hiss
It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
So pretty much in keeping with every other government policy in this country for the last 6 years
Anyone else willing to bet this mine never actually opens?
But wind and solar is discouraged by the current government
Odd that, I’ve not been paying much attention to the news lately, but I have heard a number of news reports where the PM is trying to rescind the ban on on-shore wind farms, introduced to appease the NIMBY factions. Also, one of the biggest offshore farms is currently under construction, with an even bigger one apparently being given the go-ahead. Plus there’s loads of solar farms around my neck of the woods, and masses of them all over Cornwall. And those despite the very vocal complaints about unsightly solar farms despoiling their views of the countryside. Which always amused me, because there was a very large solar farm built on top of a disused landfill site, and on occasion I’d mention solar farms to people out walking, I’d ask them about the one right in front of them, about a mile away. They could never see it.
Exporting would be a total waste of resources against any actual income that could be supplied by the government.
Anyone else willing to bet this mine never actually opens?
You can sign up for regular updates if you are interested:
https://www.westcumbriamining.com/what-is-the-plan/how-can-i-get-a-job-here/
Well, the electric arc furnaces are better (don't need coke) but they can't make virgin steel, so it's for recycled material or secondary production only. Could work, if they can get plenty of uncontaminated material. I believe TATA want to install one at Port Talbot. The other bonus is they can be switched on and off.
Major downside is the horrific electricity demand.
Using hydrogen isn't ready yet, unless anyone knows better?
Anyone else willing to bet this mine never actually opens?
My thoughts too.
If there was a genuine need for this coking coal for production of steel in the UK, I could see the sense. But if that's not an actual thing I'd be amazed if the numbers work to make a profit out of exporting it.
Still need coke for steel…
No, we don’t. Just like other production, not decarbonising steel production is a choice. A poor one. Cheaper not to now, while governments allow it, but the cost environmentally will hit home so soon that not to do so is insanity. And all other paths realistically require governments to act, not sit back and wave through releasing carbon via coal extraction. Hydro generation plants (or hydro storage using other renewables for the base) need to be built to supply the energy for hydrogen-based or electric arc steel production. Markets need to be rigged to favour steel produced without coking. Existing producers need regulatory coercion and economic support to change their methods and energy sources… just like all other industries.
Who's gong to go and work in this thing? The inter-generational legacy has been broken and no-one wants to work a mile underground in one of the most dangerous jobs in the world and come home covered in coal dust. Anyone of suitable age is going to go nowhere near it.
the PM is trying to rescind the ban on on-shore wind farms,
I'll belive that when I see more wind farms, call me a cynic.
