making a lot of assumptions there aracer.
Tim Farron is a twunt and not really liberal.
I'm not convinced Clegg was either. By all accounts, he was a gifted politician who all the parties were trying to recruit and he chose the Lib Dems so that he could be a big fish in a small pond.
I'm not convinced Clegg was either
That's a difficult one. He is a gifted politician, if maybe a bit too smooth, and could've done well in any of the three main parties. However, he talks the talk well enough, and must've been popular enough with the LD faithful at the time to get elected leader. Maybe I'd have voted for him too if I'd been a member then.
Another lifetime LibDem voter here who would never vote for them again post Clegg. Made for TV Blair clone.
Another lifetime LibDem voter here who would never vote for them again post Clegg.
Every party has politicians you're not going to like, and I doubt Clegg would even be on the LD front bench if they had more than 9 MPs.
And being a bit too smooth is hardly in the realms of Neil Hamiton or Tommy Graham.
oldnpastit - MemberHaving spent years arguing that coalition governments - as seen on the continent - can be successful, could they have maintained any credibility if they rejected it?
Sure- saying "coalitions can be succesful" doesn't tie you to entering the first one you get a sniff of.
The converse of that is to ask whether you believe all politicians should be atheists
No I don't which is where it gets complicated. It's hard to describe, but I think with Farron we see a bit more of his religion than I'm comfortable with.
Sure- saying "coalitions can be succesful" doesn't tie you to entering the first one you get a sniff of.
So you think they could be taken at all seriously if they were offered a shot at government and rejected it? "No thanks, we'd rather stay in opposition and moan all the time" They'd be a laughing stock. They had a rare opportunity to advance the Liberal agenda. They took it, they made progress. But then they get lambasted because they didn't win a majority and so had to compromise.
It would be like if Corbyn objected to the general election. It makes a mockery of the fixed term parliaments act, but he had no choice other than to support the election.
grumpysculler - MemberSo you think they could be taken at all seriously if they were offered a shot at government and rejected it? "No thanks, we'd rather stay in opposition and moan all the time" They'd be a laughing stock.
"We were unable to reach an acceptable agreement with the Tories at this time". That's all it takes.
Frankly, if the lib dems really did think "We said coalitions can work therefore we must enter this coalition no matter what", they deserve a hundred times worst than they got, that'd prove them unfit to run a corner shop.
Maybe it is that he is too openly Christian for my liking (I'm an atheist and I believe strongly in a secular state).
I'm NOT an atheist, and I also believe strongly in a secular state.
I don't think you have said anything wrong or even worrisome, but I do want to serve a reminder that many robust liberals can actually be quite devout in their personal faith without it impeding on their ability to legislate well. I am thinking about Pierre Trudeau as an example [I]par excellence[/I].
Frankly, if the lib dems really did think "We said coalitions can work therefore we must enter this coalition no matter what", they deserve a hundred times worst than they got, that'd prove them unfit to run a corner shop.
I don't think it was that. I think it was more a perception that, at a time of a severe financial crash, a majority government was needed and a Tory-Lib coalition was the only means of delivering this. Of course, none of us were in the room at the time, so what was said...
Without the coalition, we'd have had a minority Tory government, and another election which would likely have delivered a Tory majority. Whatever else can be said about the coalition, the LDs had some moderating effect, as we've seen since 2015.
...making a lot of assumptions there...
I'll make another assumption. I'd be happy to swap debts and repayment conditions...
I do want to serve a reminder that many robust liberals can actually be quite devout in their personal faith without it impeding on their ability to legislate well.
Oh I agree and wouldn't want anything I said to be seen as anti-religion. Your personal faith is, well, personal. There's just something about Farron...
Surely you're not talking about personality politics?
