[Closed] The Landed Gentry

Would you immediately dislike someone on the basis of their background, or are you prepared to give them a chance regardless?

This is STW, of course no-one will give anyone a chance if they're in a different socio-economic group.

There are two groups of people in the world, "me" and "everyone else". I hate everyone who isn't in the "me" group, I don't make any distinctions for socio economic groupings, its just "me" and "everybody else".

Don't automatically dislike the person, but certainly dislike any system that allows a person to live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthright. Just seems fundementally unjust. I suppose my view would be different if I had been born with the luxury of wealth, privilege and property...

What MSP said. You bunch of ****s!!!

Object to the landed gentry? One is having a laaarf, isn't one?

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In my limited experience, those who have been born into an estate / land wich has been passed down through a few generations are preferable to the nouveau riche.

Like I say, limited experience though..

live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthrigh

Who exactly do you mean by that?

Don't automatically dislike the person, but certainly dislike any system that allows a person to live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthright. Just seems fundementally unjust.

How? If you work hard and make good decisions all your life, would you not want your children to benefit when you die? If not, do you intend on leaving your house etc to the state or charity?

A rambler was stopped by a landowner from crossing his land. The rambler asked "How come it's your land, then?"

The landowner said: "It's mine because my ancestors fought for it."

"OK", said the rambler, "take off your coat and I'll fight you for it now"...

On the other hand, there's "self-made" landowning charmers like this one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3301361.stm

=1 for the Nouveau Riche comment.

in my experience, most of the hatred comes from people who have never actually spent any time with the 'landed gentry' - certianly from my time on shoots etc, the real 'old money' set were both down to earth, and very concious of the privileged position that they had been fortunate enough to be born into.

Tend to be very nice people. Objectionable system.

Grew up in an area dominated by a large country estate. Some land had been sold off to smaller independent farmers, as had some houses in the village. other than that the estate owned everything, including the church, village pub, village hall, all the houses (which hadn't been sold off etc).

All by dint of inheritance...

On the other hand, Sir John, was a very nice chap (direct, engaging, humorous, time for people), and his heir, Richard, likewise is well respected.

They have their own "issues" to deal with. Estate is worth a lot of money, but that is locked up in the property. Not easy to make it work and generate sufficient income to cover the estate overheads. Main house passed over to the National Trust to "preserve" although the family still live there.

Where I fall out with the system is that any access - shooting, walking, cycling is either barred, restricted or entirely discretionary.

I used to shoot on the estate, but that meant keeping in with the keeper and going on pigeon / vermin shoots. the system works on patronage, at all levels. That isn't what I desire for our county. I was brought up to believe in a meritocracy.

ETA - agree with the points above. The gentry I have been involved with have a very strong belief in their "custody" of the countryside rather than "ownership" (although of course, they do own..)

If not, do you intend on leaving your house etc to the state or charity

Sod the state! In fact, sod people! Donkey Sanctuaries are where its at

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They'll be really grateful, and put in a word with god. Everyone knows donkeys have a hotline to god since the whole Bethlehem thing

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My first wifes father owned a large farm in Lincolnshire. All inherited from his father etc.

I reckon he was the hardest working man I've ever met, so I wouldn't begrudge him anything.

Just wondering where these negative attitudes come from i.e. experience? ideology? jealousy?

In my case the negative attitude comes from ideology.

In my limited experience, those who have been born into an estate / land wich has been passed down through a few generations are preferable to the nouveau riche.

Oh definitely, nothing worse than 'new money', and what they do with that money.

I don't hold anything at all against those born into wealth, good for them.

Did he keep donkeys on his farm? Are they native to Lincolnshire?

I love donkeys.

Isn't that illegal?

Dont ask dont tell.

Its jealousy....people on this forum are vitriolic in their disdain for inherited wealth, rich kids using their parents money etc....

Funnily enough these same people are happy to fund their own off spring through university and see nothing wrong with leaving their house for their children either....same principal just a different scale.

Most people are hypocritical on this issue.

My own opinion is that the wealth was earned at some point....it may have been earned hundreds of years ago but it was still earned....nobody ever got given money for nothing (lottery wins are a modern phenomenon)....'old money' often came from raising an army and showing loyalty to a particular Monarch (massive risk if you back the wrong side) and recieving land in return....or somebody got off their arse and built up a business that became hugely successful and still provides an income or was sold for a fortune....

....but because people have very short memories they just see a rich person who doesnt work and they seethe with rage....very sad people, they should enjoy their own lives more instead of raging over what they dont have.

I don't think most people give a moments thought to the 'landed gentry'

Until someone says "you can't ride your bike here"

Then suddenly they're the most hated people on the planet

dislike any system that allows a person to live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthright

Eh?

If it's been legally handed to them as their inheritance, then what's unjust about it?

Oh definitely, nothing worse than 'new money', and what they do with that money.

I don't hold anything at all against those born into wealth, good for them.

Just out of curiosity, what's the alternative?

Pass all of your estate to the state when you die?

hmmmm. I'd rather old money kept it than give it to an inept government.

My own opinion is that the wealth was earned at some point.

Some of it may have been, for others it was a gift from royalty for being a suckass.

Dont worry, the usual suspects will be along shortly to tell us that earnings should be capped at 100k....inheritance should be consigned to history and we should all live in identical houses a short bike ride from our place of work....oh joy.

... and eat nothing but lentils.

OK whose ass do I gots to suck for some land?

Ass/donkey - much the same, yeah?

Jealousy pure and simple.

Most of the larger land owners have done loads for their area and community.

Of the ones I have met most are great and down to earth.

Unlike some who feel entitled and carry a massive chip on their shoulders.

And so much better than some of the "New Money" lot

Ass/donkey - much the same, yeah?

Ideology on my part. Read up on how the "landed gentry" got hold of the land in the first place e.g. Enclosure Acts etc....

There are two groups of people in the world, "me" and "everyone else". I hate everyone who isn't in the "me" group, I don't make any distinctions for socio economic groupings, its just "me" and "everybody else".

This x infinity

edit- everybody else is also covered by "you"

Its jealousy....people on this forum are vitriolic in their disdain for inherited wealth, rich kids using their parents money etc....

Opposition to the monarchy as expressed by many on this forum is based on "jealousy" ? Are you sure about about that ?

Are you sure it has nothing to do with an ideological belief that rights should come before privileges, and they are simply jealous that they are not the sovereign ruler of the UK ?

[b]Donkey!!![/b]

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ernie, not talking about the Monarchy....even in a republic there would still be inherited land, wealth etc for people to get their knickers in a twist about.

There's one now.

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Don't worry

Mr Perry will [url= http://www.channel4.com/programmes/in-the-best-possible-taste-grayson-perry/episode-guide/series-1 ]reveal all[/url] on C4 next week

Of course - being born into wealth and privelege - I'd HATE that! I'd IMMEDIATELY give it all away...

Did you watch last nights fasthaggis? A quality programme raising some interesting points, fronted by an extremely talented fruit-loop, and with some amazing results?

Whatever next?

ernie, not talking about the Monarchy....even in a republic there would still be inherited land, wealth etc for people to get their knickers in a twist about.

So you can accept then that some people can be opposed to inherited wealth and privileges, such as enjoyed by some of the House of Lords landed gentry, without it being a jealousy issue, but an ideological one. Excellent.

Envy from me.

Mainly envy that my forefathers in the 1640s picked the wrong bloody side and condemned me to a life of work.

I'm open to the idea of somebody being opposed based on ideology but the acid test would be to look at ordinary people who have perhaps held these views and then won the lottery....i wonder how many of them will give the money away or donate it to charity when they die instead of hypocritically passing it on to their children?

The thread title is "The Landed Gentry". The Landed Gentry is a specific social class in much the same way as the monarchy is. Although they generally have much more political power.

Did you watch last nights fasthaggis?

I did binners,an interesting take on things.
That's the only one of the series that I have seen,so I will watch the
first program tonight.
I wish I had known about the other side of his life when I knew him in London .
He was always good fun at the pub after some of the Beastway races,but it was mostly bike and motorbike chat.

mrlebowski, by "dislike any system that allows a person to live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthright" I meant; a traditional British social class, consisting of land owners who could live entirely off rental income.

I suppose they will come across as nicer than the self made millionaire set, They would be quite laid back and comfortable in their situation, in comparison it must take a fairly specific personality type to aggressively aquire such large wealth over a short time. Rarely do omeletes get made without breaking eggs.

wrecker - Member

How? If you work hard and make good decisions all your life, would you not want your children to benefit when you die? If not, do you intend on leaving your house etc to the state or charity?

Of course, and I admit to a bit of selfish hypocrisy in my post, I am human. however the remnants of basically a feudal society that are still going strong in this country are a long way from what you describe. Call me a lefty if you like, but it is the [i]hugely disproportionate[/i] unearned and undeserved privilege that results in the inequality that I find distasteful.

Everybody who doesn't like the 'new money' people iz jus jelus.

interesting article here

[url= http://libcom.org/news/article.php/land-ownership-right-roam-uk-10032006 ]http://libcom.org/news/article.php/land-ownership-right-roam-uk-10032006[/url]

I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

As for individual wealth I have no issue with how much someone gets paid, as long as the gap between the richest and the poorest is reducing in our society. Study after study has shown that social and economic inequality leads to a worse standard of living and life expectancy for all members of a society

[url= http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html ]Graphs and facts [/url]

We are obviously struggling with definitions here. Is everyone who inherits land one of the "gentry"? If not, what other criteria do we need to consider?

seven +1

(Eight? 😉 )

Druidh, the wiki definition seems reasonable. [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landed_gentry ]wikiwikwarp[/url]

seven - Member
I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they're main stream. cough.

Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they're main stream. cough.

Not to mention the 'I'm alright jack' Toryboys who think that the poor, the disenfranchised and the exploited should have 'bally well worked harder then'...

I dislike the landed gentry for the way they sneer at my cheap shotguns.

druidh - Member

Including the land that my house is built on?

Leasehold or Freehold - not everybody owns the land that the house they own is on, so there is clearly a working model that just needs some tuning 🙂

wrecker - Member

Too late.

For what?

I struggle with long sentences

are we really asking why it is unfair that people inherit land, titles and privledge now mdue to an accident of birth
We think the Queen earned it, The Duke of Westminster all the heridtary peers etc

I beleive in a meritocracy and this is not one

To quote Billy Bragg

By theft and murder they took the land
Now everywhere the laws spring up at their command

For what?

To quote Billy Bragg

pmsl 😆

If it's been legally handed to them as their inheritance, then what's unjust about it?

define legal, have a read up on the enclosure acts, and the highland clearances and then talk to me about what is legal and what is moral. Remember that the laws are constructed by those in power often to their benefit.

The current owners may have legal claim but the manner of acquisition was far from morally justifiable in a huge number of cases.

JY - so meritocracy passes the "accident of birth test?"

Junkyard - Member
are we really asking why it is unfair that people inherit land, titles and privledge now mdue to an accident of birth...I beleive in a meritocracy and this is not one

http://www.amazon.com/A-Theory-Justice-Original-Edition/dp/0674017722/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339592917&sr=8-1&keywords=rawls

Chapter 17 for an interest take on this!

Interesting that some equate wealth with land ownership. This is often not the case. I would bet that many on here have a higher disposable income than my dad (inherited owner of 1,100 acres), or indeed any of the rest of my family.

And to those who believe that these 'stolen' lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this? How will they be protected for future generations? Who pays for the upkeep and how? How is access controlled, by whom, and who pays for this? etc etc...

And to those who believe that these 'stolen' lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this?

I know someone who fits the bill!!!

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What could possibly go wrong! 😀

And to those who believe that these 'stolen' lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this? How will they be protected for future generations? Who pays for the upkeep and how? How is access controlled, by whom, and who pays for this? etc etc...

To a limited extent i can see where you are coming from, but who is farming the land the tenant or the landowner, who should have control of the land? why should access be controlled in most situations? If you look at scotland or scandinavia access is far more easily achieved than in England. What are we protecting for future generations? what is the point of the countryside? farming, recreation, private ownership, etc.

Can land be given back to the original owners, doubtful as many family lines will have died out, be untraceable.

I am of the opinion that the UK and its planning system is unfit for purpose which is causing this country a lot of issues.

Can land be given back to the original owners

Technically, doesn't God own it all?

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Unless the state controlled land ownership entirely

I taught some landed gentry agriculture at Uni, horrible obectionable little ****s. Having said that I'm sure others are very nice.

Not read it all but IME it varies tremendously from the benign / paternalistic owner to the utter shit.

fortunately we have mechanisms to force buyouts in Scotland so the shits can be forced to sell under some circumstances. Community buyouts have been a huge success as have charitable / conservation organisations owning states.

enfht - Member

Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they're main stream. cough.

Far left maxists? On STW? The nearest we have is dear old ernie and is is by no means far left. A fairly moderate maxist 🙂

I like the idea of all land going into the communal pot after death. How long do you lot want for your families to move out? 5-10 mins ok?

Usual crap about take it all of them but not us.

Nice stats earlier though turns out it's the MOD and FC that own the most. With the much loed C of E coming in after that. Perhaps we could try out the model on these first. About 1/10th Acre each?

To be honest i don't really care about the landed gentry, i would rather the system allows anyone to do pretty much anything they see fit with a plot of land they own, a virtual removal of planning laws, and allowed open access to all land where no reason can be showed for not allowing it.

i would rather the system allows anyone to do pretty much anything they see fit with a plot of land they own, a virtual removal of planning laws, and allowed open access to all land where no reason can be showed for not allowing it.

Blimey!!

Planning laws should be there to prevent complete monstrosities and unsafe buildings being erected. Along with trying to keep development on plan. Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate? What about a 24hr sawmill?

Access to all land? I assume you mean farm land and not gardens and industrial units? Just what farming needs another bunch of idiots popping up from behind every hedgerow and wall. Some of this might just be for your safety!!

Planning laws should be there to prevent complete monstrosities and unsafe buildings being erected. Along with trying to keep development on plan. Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate? What about a 24hr sawmill?

No, most of the problems in this country with land prices are the result of stupid planning rules, As for preventing monstrosities define one, i would say most new build housing estates fall into that category? IF you want to build a saw mill, where is it going to be? near forestry, why force it to be built on an industrial estate nowhere near the logging?

Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate

Access to all land? I assume you mean farm land and not gardens and industrial units? Just what farming needs another bunch of idiots popping up from behind every hedgerow and wall. Some of this might just be for your safety!!

Read the whole quote, where no reason can be shown for access being banned. If there is a genuine safety concern, farm machinery, guns, quarry fine, but owning a patch of woodland and deciding to keep people out just because you can, then sorry no.

Read the whole quote, where no reason can be shown for access being banned. If there is a genuine safety concern, farm machinery, guns, quarry fine, but owning a patch of woodland and deciding to keep people out just because you can, then sorry no.

I did I just don't come from the far end of this where you are.

People (ie general public) have a great time dropping litter pulling things up and taking them home and a great deal of other bad habbits. Why should peoples workplaces and property be opened up to everyone? Can I have a picnic on your garden?

Why are woodlands so special?

Why does the concept of ownership get as far as houses/sheds etc but stop there?

If you want to go roam in some woods go buy some! http://www.woods4sale.co.uk/

A rambler was stopped by a landowner from crossing his land. The rambler asked "How come it's your land, then?"

The landowner said: "It's mine because my ancestors fought for it."

"OK", said the rambler, "take off your coat and I'll fight you for it now"...

this..

I guess that what may have started out as a teen jealousy has matured over the years into a sense of injustice that has spawned a vehement righteous indignation..