[Closed] The F1 Thread...

As a massive Hamilton fan found the last few laps very stressful, great race for him after starting from the pit lane. Good to see him get a bit of good luck.

Thought Alonso was outstanding to go that far on those tyres, deserved podium for him.

Great race all round.

I do wonder about the outcome if Hamilton had pitted just before Rosberg, but that would depend on Rosberg still pitting once Hamilton was out of the way and if he did if Hamilton could get back out in front . He would have got past Alonso but without him in the way Ricardo may have got in the lead quicker and been further away and harder to catch.

Only managed to catch the last bit of the race but it had me on the edge of my seat. Now all he needs to do is drive like this when he's had a good qualifying session.

Bad, bad, bad call from Mercedes to ask LH pull over for Rosberg. Says it all really, they're backing Rosberg over HL. No way was Rosberg pressuring Hamilton at that point"........ And there' no other competition for the championship either. So no reason for team orders, other than favouring Rosberg. Hamilton must be pissed.

riccardo, what a move on Hamilton, awesome...
strange lewis didn't punt him onto the grass but did it to his team mate just a lap later
the nico team order was because THE TEAM were trying to win the race and beat alonso and riccardo, they knew with lewis strategy he would not beat them, however before I get flamed by lewislovers , I did not think nico was close enough and he would not have got past riccardo anyway.
The other theory could be that the team know lewis is leaving at the end of the season and are now backing nico
ok ok ok im just trying for winding up the L fan club...

edit..and if Lewis talks about luck, let's talk about how 2 safety cars helped him out just as nico had passed pit entry, otherwise it could have been a different story
double edit.. and not smacking the barrier because of rookie error on cold brakes

Bad, bad, bad call from Mercedes to ask LH pull over for Rosberg. Says it all really, they're backing Rosberg over HL. No way was Rosberg pressuring Hamilton at that point"........ And there' no other competition for the championship either. So no reason for team orders, other than favouring Rosberg. Hamilton must be pissed.

Moving Hamilton over would have resulted in a better result for the team as a whole, that's why the decision was taken. They thought better of it once they thought about Hamilton's response.
They weren't favouring Rosberg, just the bottom line.

edit..and if Lewis talks about luck, let's talk about how 2 safety cars helped him out just as nico had passed pit entry, otherwise it could have been a different story

If being passed the pit entrance for that first safety car was the reason for Rosberg not being at the front, how on earth did Alonso manage it in his works tractor?

I've deleted my post

What Lewis did was to deny the team the win. That isn't great really is it ?

.. and yet the team's non-exec chairman thinks Lewis did the right thing, so do I.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207156/1/lauda-hamilton-was-right-to-defy-team.html

But what if they had pitted the in front Lewis for the softs then pitted the behind Nico for the softs they just might have had a 1/2

the single Strategist seems a bad move on Mercs team

Ifs buts maybes.

Would Rosberg have moved over for Hamilton? I doubt it.

Probably payback for Monaco in Hamiltons mind.

Nothing compared to what Rosberg did in Monaco.

'The team' did not ned it, really, it didn't. If anyone thinks there's another team in the race for the championship - I'd like some of what their smoking 😉 and lauda agrees.

I thought Rosbergs sour grapes was a bit lame, how many laps was he stuck behind Verne? As soon a Rosberg pitted, Hamilton shot past Verne - that's how it looked on the highlights anyway.

Hamilton getting 3rd from the pit lane was simply amazing, Rosbergs. 4th from pole was less amazing.

Hamilton was totally correct to not let Rosberg by. As has been said Rosberg was not close enough to be pressuring Hamilton ... And Hamilton would actually have had to Slow down.... Which is unacceptable !

Moving Hamilton over would have resulted in a better result for the team as a whole, that's why the decision was taken.

Did you actually watch the race???

Last -> 3rd x2

vs

1st -> 1st and 1st -> 4th.

Just out of curiosity, i wonder if today was the only time a merc got ahead of the other, at the finish, this season (excluding dnfs).

What this season has shown is that Hamilton is no where near as good as he thinks he is.

Oh, I don't think any of the drivers are as good as they think they are, having an ego as big as the moon pretty much goes with the job.
I'm yet to see Rosberg beat Hamilton when they're in close company, I think he's a better racer than Rosberg.
Rosberg may take a more clinical approach to hitting all the sector times etc. but there's little excitement in that for me.

IMO Hamilton is out of control. I don't know what his contract says regarding team orders etc but it's totally unacceptable to me for a driver to disobey orders given by the race team.

Drivers do it all the time, e.g. Massa in Malaysia and Vettel in China, we don't hear most of the orders.
Merc made an error asking Lewis to let Rosberg through, technically it was correct in order to give them the best points haul but they quickly realised that it wouldn't help the long term position, as Lauda said, decisions are made very quickly and sometimes they have to re-think - that's what they did here.

Just out of curiosity, i wonder if today was the only time a merc got ahead of the other, at the finish, this season (excluding dnfs).

Sorry the last two races are showing Lewis and us what maturity can do. His raw speed and thinking = ...

First off, I'm a Williams fan - so not a great race for me

But, Hamilton showed Rosberg how to drive when he attacked and passed Vergne in half a lap

Rosberg made 2 half arsed attempts in 6 laps

Says it all about Rosberg's killer instinct...

Lewis made the right call to ignore team orders

If Lewis had complied guess what the world (inc Merc) would have thought of him. A 'team player' and 'a nice man'. F1 with all its 'team' is not a team game. Its win. Win Win.

Ricciardo is rapidly gaining my respect. He seems to quite adept at reading the race, keeping himself in contention then making moves when the timing is right. Skilful moves to pass two world champions and take the win.

Skilful moves to pass two world champions

Much fresher tyres to pass two world champions

And just how many countless moves as Hamilton done with that too and yet hes a fekin "miracle driver"

lets not forget the famous Mansell on Senna move in the very same track we just watched, that was also due to fresher tyres if memory serves he had to pit and recover a 25 second gap to senna

I couldn't figure out why Hamilton was put the the worse tyre?

I don't actually understand either of the last two posts 😥

futon river crossing - Member
I couldn't figure out why Hamilton was put the the worse tyre?

If he'd gone out on the soft tyre then he would have needed another stop - which would have put him behind Rosberg & Riccardo

Jenson is keeping his head down.

He pitted at the same time as the race winner and could have been up there with him at the end. Barmy call to put inters on with a drying track and everyone else on dry's.

He must be furious.

Missed that. So Mclaren are still doing their dumb pitstops

The reason Nico didn't win the race was that he spent 18 laps behind JEV in the Toro Rosso. Lewis dispatched him in 4 corners.

Brilliant race though.

I'd have been happy to see any of the top three win. Lewis what a drive to end up on the podium from the pitlane. Alonso - the driver's driver - really deserved a podium after battling so hard in a lacklustre Ferrari (while his team mate is virtually AWOL). But Danny Ricciardo showed his class again.

Meanwhile somewhere in Milton Keynes today...

RING RING
RING RING
"G' day"
"Mark! its Seb!, How is it going?"
"Err..."
"Mark! Listen, would you like to come back and be my team mate again?"
"Err..."
"C'Mon Mark, For sure it will be great. Remember the laughs we had Multi 21, the Turkish GP. C'mon Mark."
CLICK!
"Mark! Mark!?... Scheisse!"

this year has shown what a mess the mercedes management are. Clearly the executive director (business) now makes the call. In the background you have the chairman giving out his expert opinions meanwhile Executive director (technical) tries to manage the race in accordance to directive from above.

I guess it might have been different if Ross brawn was still there. I reckon Toto has bought himself a position on the pitwall which he couldn't have at Williams.

The we must rethink our approach is laughable seeing that they must have seen this coming from the start and the "we let our drivers race" is a joke.

Its funny to see the drivers leading the management on how they should run a team. If it wasnt for the engineering team producing one of the best cars on the grid and the drivers producing the goods I wouldve fired the directors already.
Good luck Lewis as it seems the management are clueless on who is the fastest driver!

Did you actually watch the race???

He pitted at the same time as the race winner and could have been up there with him at the end. Barmy call to put inters on with a drying track and everyone else on dry's.

He must be furious.

He's in a car which is off the pace, by doing the same as everyone else he would never have won, by gambling on the rain starting again, as forecast, and thus fitting inters he faced a chance of winning. Gamble didn't work. C'est la vie.

What this season has shown is that Hamilton is no where near as good as he thinks he is. With equally good cars the two Mercedes drivers have been pretty equal over the course of the season, this is not how it's supposed to be on "planet Hamilton"

Unless the highlights you saw were 10 seconds long I assume you saw he started from the pits, then spun on the second corner, then worked his way up to beat his team mate who started from pole...? But for some very shagged tyres on the last few laps he had a real chance of winning.

He was given the 'order' to let Rosberg through when Rosberg was still a couple of seconds adrift, team made a snap decision, as did Hamilton, in the event Hamilton was right. It's not like he was holding Rosberg up after all.

He's in a car which is off the pace, by doing the same as everyone else he would never have won, by gambling on the rain starting again, as forecast, and thus fitting inters he faced a chance of winning. Gamble didn't work. C'est la vie.

I am no fanboy, infact i cant stand Hamilton TBH. But this year he has shown just how lightening fast he is. He makes other great drivers look pretty average ( yes i know he has the best car). He is slowly learning to just get on with things and not act like a whiney 5 year old when things are not 100% perfect. He is also very good for F1 as a whole. The amount of people who tune in just to watch him battle it out is pretty unreal. He is a true racer IMO.

Now i was always a bit of a fanboy of Button, again i don't know why but i saw on one of the sites that amongst the many many rumours going around at the moment is one that that Grosjean is looking for a drive away from Lotus next year, i think McLaren would be a very good place for him, take Buttons seat and there will be a very good pairing at McLaren.

The context is this - the team don't need orders to secure the constructors championship, the drivers championship will be won by either of their drivers.

Additional context, Rosberg couldn't pass Verne for how many laps???? That's why he didn't win the race right there. Hamilton passed Verne in 4 corners and showed what can do, he also got a lot more out his tyres than expected.

Yet more context, Rosberg wasn't challenging Hamilton for the position. If Rosberg was faster, why wasn't"t he all over Hamilton??

Final context: Lauda said it was a mistake, the team have publicly said it was a mistake ....... Though privately they wanted Rosberg to increase his lead ???

Now i was always a bit of a fanboy of Button, again i don't know why but i saw on one of the sites that amongst the many many rumours going around at the moment is one that that Grosjean is looking for a drive away from Lotus next year, i think McLaren would be a very good place for him, take Buttons seat and there will be a very good pairing at McLaren.

Not going to happen Jenson-san will be in the McLaren for the first year of Honda engines. Guaranteed

I've never really warmed to Hamilton in previous seasons, but he drove extremely hard to make it to the podium from what was last place - and not forgetting that he'd spun early on too, which would rattle most drivers.

As for Button, it's pretty obvious that he'll be elsewhere in 2015. It's a shame, his driving style belies his pace and until now he's been a good fit at McLaren.

@jambalaya

Are you going to write him off forever for his final years at mclaren, where the car was on a gradual decline? I too had written off Alonso because of his whining/extra help at Renault but his performance over the last 3 years puts hims tied #1 with Hamilton in my book. They both whine, Alonso over the radio, Hamilton in interviews, so what. I want to watch them race.

The context is this - the team don't need orders to secure the constructors championship, the drivers championship will be won by either of their drivers.

Actually thats a load of rubbish - the context is that the FIA will stop at nothing to change rules midseason to stop boring championship, its happened in the past and will happen in the future, so The TEAM must try to secure drivers or constructors titles ASAP!
If thats means stepping on Lewis' rather large Ego to put the title leading contender in P1 then thats what they should do.
Mercedes as a team has not won a title for a long, long , long time, they should do what must in order to secure it as soon as they can.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28517704 ]Mercedes rethink team orders[/url]

They've also got to protect the brand. Ferrari did a lot of damage to themselves in the way they handled 'team orders'.

I think Button will want to stay with McLaren next year as the new engine provider will give him all the cover /excuses he needs for another lackluster season. If he goes to another team with an existing driver and a stable car then it all gets a bit harder to find someone else to blame.

If Rosberg had any class the during his post race invertview, when asked about the team orders, he wouldn't have swereved the question about Hamilton being told to let him though.

The classy thing to do would be to tell the truth and say "If I were Hamilton I wouldn't have let me though either"

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/5099332/McLarens-Lewis-Hamilton-apologises-for-lies-at-Australian-Grand-Prix.html ]Lewis never lies.[/url]

Blimey B2B why so much hate!

Lewis never lies.

The relevance of 5 year old article is...?

Just announced that Hamilton is after a 3 year 90 million euro deal from Mercedes. Yikes!

I was never a Hamilton fan until I attended a tour at McLaren. I was hoping for Button and was disappointed when Hamilton turned up as it was just after all his reported hissy fits bit in person he won me over mainly due to the way he engaged with the kids that were there.

I'm not a fan of the necklaces and ear rings and some of the things he comes out with in the spur of the moment but that's emotion and he still can't make his head rule his emotions. But on the track in the last few races he has shown he can drive and he can pass. It does seem as though he needs the kick up the arse of being at the back to bring out the best in him but that is just human nature.

The relevance of 5 year old article is...

haterz will hate....

As for contract, I hope he dosent stay at Merc beyond next year. I'd love to see him in a Ferrari or Redbull in 2016. Hopefully as a three times world champion.

I'd [b]love[/b] to see him in a Ferrari.

He's in a car which is off the pace, by doing the same as everyone else he would never have won

Rubbish. He was all over the back of Danny Ricc at Silverstone; it's not as if he's puttering along with Renault power like the RBR.

The quick pit was a tactical masterstroke; the inters were gormless. All the teams have the same weather radar. Only McLaren saw rain. Even Caterham told their drivers they were on the right tyre with dry.

And Rosberg couldn't get past LH with DRS assistant. What does that say?

Actually thats a load of rubbish - the context is that the FIA will stop at nothing to change rules midseason to stop boring championship, its happened in the past and will happen in the future, so The TEAM must try to secure drivers or constructors titles ASAP!
If thats means stepping on Lewis' rather large Ego to put the title leading contender in P1 then thats what they should do.
Mercedes as a team has not won a title for a long, long , long time, they should do what must in order to secure it as soon as they can.

Apparently not - the TEAM have admitted it was a mistake. So Hamilton did the right thing.

The season has been anything but boring- the last two races have been amazing.

Rosberg couldn't pass Verne or Hamilton, yet in the interview after the race, he seems to blame Hamilton for his poor showing in the race, lame!

But on the track in the last few races he has shown he can drive and he can pass.

A statistic from twitter...

[i]"#F1 factoid: Hamilton has made up 50 places in the last 4 races. I know he has a fast car but 50….!!"[/i]

Good article here from Will Buxton
http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/new-coke/

Will always writes good stuff and is a great commentator

The teams will pretty much always look after their own agenda rather than what's best for the show.
Take the incident of the FIA allowing Merc to change Hamilton's brake discs in parc ferme for safety reasons, pretty much all of the Team Principals argued against it - Mattiacci was a breath of fresh air though and I take it Claire Williams backed his position too.

[i]Q: (Péter Farkas – Autó-Motor).
Question to all of you. Obviously it is very surprising to learn that the FIA has allowed a change of brake material in parc ferme. Have you got a clear explanation from the FIA yet, why did they let them do it and, do you think it's acceptable? And do you think there is a danger that things you start to ask to change brake materials and even something else in parc ferme before the race after that.

Christian Horner:
Look, from our perspective it was very interesting to see the way the FIA dealt with it. Theoretically it is a change in car specification and the interesting thing for us to observe was how the FIA dealt with it, the precedent it sets going forward. So should that circumstance occur again, the precedent is now extremely clear and I'm sure there will be further discussion on it and where does that stop? Obviously we'd like to change the engine in parc ferme but that's not quite allowed. I'm sure there'll be further discussion. It was intriguing to see the decisions that were made.

Q:
Eric?

Eric Boullier:
Well our position is quite similar to Christian's one. It was a little bit of a surprise to see they could change their brakes obviously. And even if some specs were similar, the rule on parc ferme are very strict. So, as Christian says, it is a serious precedent and we'll see how it develops in the future.

Q:
Marco?

Marco Mattiacci:
From me it's a different perspective from my colleagues – even though I understand where they're coming from. I think in Formula One where everybody is debating about the show, to see a driver from the 20 spot arrive to the podium, for me is a great thing to sell to people and honestly, to pull the trigger, because changing the brakes that are the same spec, probably they don't have a great impact on the performance, honestly to go to ruin the day for Hamilton was not my principle about racing, so I don't see the need. It is clear we need consistency in the approach of the FIA but I think we have seen a great race from a guy and we didn't feel it was the case to ruin that show.

Q:
Claire?

Claire Williams:
I don't think I have anything to add to that.

Q:
Vijay?

Vijay Mallya:
My concern is the precedent that it sets. The FIA rules basically say that if a component is similar in mass, inertia and function, I guess that's the definition under which the change of brakes was allowed. Going forward, under parc ferme conditions, one could also argue that the rear wing settings could be changed because the same mass, inertia and function are retained. So long as this is not used as an unhealthy precedent going forward for changes under parc ferme conditions, that is the way I would look at it.

Q:
Monisha?

Monisha Kaltenborn:
Well, the FIA took probably a surprising decision here but I think more important is to see that they realise that they need to clarify the matter. I'm a bit less concerned about the precedent being set here because if you look at the cases that have gone through the FIA, different courts or tribunals, you very rarely see a certain consistency there because you can't bring up cases from the past but every case is looked at individually, so I'm not that concerned. I tend to agree with Marco, that it just shows you no matter what would have happened, have you also given a penalty, still a driver can come up, right in front, and I think that's the remarkable part about it and shows the dominance of the team.[/i]

50 passes in 4 races. In your face haters!

Hes still a miserable sod.

So is Alonso. If his face gets any longer he won't be able to fit it in his helmet.

His demeanor doesn't detract from his talent, though.

Hes still a miserable sod.

They aren't paid presenters or actors. They are focused/driven/distance mutha ****ers.

Name one racing driver who was a joking, funny wise-crackin comedian?

I can only say this after observing on TV - but I think Mika looks the funnest/nicest bloke of them all.

They're all 'miserable sods' when they have their race heads on, away from the track, they are mostly pretty normal.

They aren't generally miserable, it's just the focus required to do the job is all encompassing

We can't expect sportsmen to be entertainers too, it's a big ask on a driver to drive a car with millimeter precision, to carry the corporate message for sponsors, to be physically fit and to deliver the right lines on cue.

However...

Name one racing driver who was a joking, funny wise-crackin comedian?

James Hunt and Graham Hill spring to mind...then there's the legendary japes of the 1960s Grand Prix set, which included driving a car into a hotel swimming pool to settle a bet about headlights working underwater.

And there's Gerhard Berger.

[url= http://mclaren-soul.tumblr.com/post/52799706471/ayrton-senna-and-gerhard-berger-the-jokes ]Here.[/url]

James Hunt

They must get fed up of it though (not that I wouldn't swap)

Mark Webber said that he got asked the same question by a journalist 22 times one weekend, despite having answered it in the press conference.
The media is on steroids these days not like in the 60s and 70s

James Hunt would have never coped with today's media. Infact if you've seen the film and assuming the scene had some truth to it, he punched a journalist out.

Nor would someone with his lifestyle cope with driving a modern F1 car.

Irrespective of which driver you think should have won the race on the weekend, the first safety car deployed into the middle of the pack decided the outcome and ruined the race IMHO.

Kona TC - Member

Irrespective of which driver you think should have won the race on the weekend, the first safety car deployed into the middle of the pack decided the outcome and ruined the race IMHO.

The first safety car was deployed in front of Rosberg wasn't it? The top 4 cars passed the pitlane entry so couldn't box and swap their tyres. Is that what you meant?

In any case I don't see how you could consider it ruined the race. Bloody excellent from where I was watching. Action packed start to finish.

The first safety car was deployed in front of Rosberg wasn't it?

No

The top 4 cars passed the pitlane entry so couldn't box and swap their tyres

Rosberg was 1st at this point in the race.

with every SC there are going to be winners and losers.
some may pre-empt and gamble a tyre change, others stay out, others might have just changed a lap earlier, edit: and others may have to stack in the pits, and others get held up on pit release.
would have to watch it again to see where Rosberg was at the point that the crash happened (and shown on the TV feed), and compare that to Rosberg's position at the point the SC moved off.

retro83 - Member
The first safety car was deployed in front of Rosberg wasn't it?

dooosuk - Member
No

retro83 - Member
The top 4 cars passed the pitlane entry so couldn't box and swap their tyres

dooosuk - Member
Rosberg was 1st at this point in the race.

I don't understand what you're saying. Am I talking about the wrong safety car (ericson I think?) or is it that I'm missing a bit (only watched the beeb highlights)

[IMG] [/IMG]

Rosberg and whoever the next three behind him were did not(/could not) pit and the rest did.

Still arguing about Rosberg NOT winning?

[img] [/img]

hora - Member

Still arguing about Rosberg NOT winning?

If that's to me, no.

He lost and he lost fair and square by basically not racing his socks off like a certain better driver; Messers Hamilton. A much better driver with pedigree.

The scene where Hunt punched that journalist is completely made up.

Graham Hill and Hunt would have been my first two names for funny F1 drivers.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10997982/Bernie-Ecclestone-offers-20-million-to-drop-bribery-trial-as-Formula-One-chief-feels-the-strain-of-burdensome-case.html ]he's a "bribeaholic"[/url]

Nico was disadvantaged by the safety car in that he missed the chance to pit.
Otherwise he would have been more likely to keep his first position.

Lewis drove a good race and was more aggressive, hence his excellent progression from near last to third.

Did that safety car get a 10 second penalty for crossing the white line on the pit lane exit?

I see bernie has reversed the decision on restarts after a safety car.

I am sure all the top drivers have been disadvantaged at some time or another by the timing of the safety car...

@eddiebaby - yep, F1 generally in the news for the right reasons at the mo so no need for BE to prolong his half assed ideas to get media attention. Give it a couple of weeks when the summer break means that F1 news is thin on the ground and he'll be back with ideas about reintroducing traction control and ABS or running the GP as 6 separate 10 lap sprints to allow the media to schedule more ad breaks or something.

Hamilton was massively disadvantaged in Germany when Sutil's spin didn't trigger a safety car - if it was, then Rosberg's lead would have been nullified, allowing Hamilton to be on Rosberg's gearbox with 10 laps to go

Safety cars are good - as is unreliability - because without it, this year would be pretty dull with a massively dominant car, running similar strategies, finishing first & second - a bit like Schumacher & Irvine/Massa back in the day

That particular phase was the only time i stopped watching F1

bang on boltonjon.

Irrespective of which driver you think should have won the race on the weekend, the first safety car deployed into the middle of the pack decided the outcome and ruined the race IMHO.

Nico was disadvantaged by the safety car in that he missed the chance to pit.
Otherwise he would have been more likely to keep his first position.

Alonso also missed the [Ericsson] safety car cut off point, didn't seem to disadvantage his final position much.
What did he do in the - off the pace - Ferrari that Rosberg didn't in his - fastest car in the race - Mercedes?