[Closed] The F1 Thread...

I can't see Vettel going to Ferrari unless there's something to suggest that they can provide a winning car. Same for anyone serious going to McL. when was the last time either of those two teams had the best car? 2007/8? I guess that 2010 was close enough that you could consider they were competitive but not since. Ferrari and McL seem doomed to be stuck as the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th best team with the other teams moving around them but never getting to the top.

WTF are Mclaren doing though.

Desperately trying to recruit some top personnel from other teams, or at least convince those they thought they'd recruited to actually work for them.

TBH they're probably not first in the line for tech support from Mercedes at the moment, they're almost certainly working closely with Honda to integrate the design of next years car with the new power unit, they're (allegedly) a bit skint too until they reveal Sony as their title sponsor for next year.

But having said all that they're probably still better funded, better equipped and better staffed than some of the other Merc teams who are beating them.

WTF are Mclaren doing though.

Unless they are doing a Mercedes - keeping low key this year and using it as a test bed for ideas for next season.

Really no incentive to tune a chassis around and engine they aren't keeping, and I doubt they are getting full support from Merc on the engine front.

What I don't understand though is just *how* Hamilton is using significantly less fuel than others at each race? Surely that suggests he isn't driving as hard - surely he could do this on fresh tyres and build more advantage? Or when he is under severe pressure couldn't he just boot it a little harder?

That's the interesting thing that we didn't get to see - how much fuel were LH and NR using towards the end once they were actually racing. LH seems to be very good at using less fuel even when he's struggling a bit - maybe he's able to keep speed more consistently in corners even if he's not quite so quick so that he doesn't have to use so much fuel to slow/speed up again.

also seems to be looking after tyres a few laps more than previously. might be some link. if this were last season, he'd have been squirrelly on every other corner 5 laps from the end.

finger boy seems to be doing pit stop earlier than I'd usually expect.

maybe they're both an effect of being relegated to mid pack / promoted to leading from the front?

And another thing - the (approx) 3.6 seconds Hamilton lost due to poor tyre changes would have made a bigger difference to the later stages – his team put him under lots of pressure due to their failures at this race – and that includes the comms going down several times during the race.

I bet he gave them a godalmighty bollocking after the race 🙂

Lewis turn it three times.

What??? Why? etc. (sounded peeved/questioning)

A couple of minutes later

Lewis turn it down twice (the wing)

That too – he was clearly flustered by what he thought were wrong decisions being made by the team – I wonder if that was paranoia that they were favouring NR?

I wonder if that was paranoia that they were favouring NR?

That crossed my mind as he said back (almost rudely!).

The comms are really interesting, it shows he is maturing as a driver, analytical, always looking ahead.
I think Rosberg is doing him a favour, forcing him to look at the wider elements other than just racing flat out.

Buttons comments were interesting, he is struggling post Lewis in a McLaren as he dosent have a team mate who is quick/intelligent etc

I think McLaren have pretty much abandoned this season already, and are doing a "mercedes" in that they are working with Honda for a brand new car in 2015. McLaren probably took the view of "if we are fast from the outset we'll try and make it happen" for 2014 - but why pump money into a car/engine/kers package they will not have next year

What you got to remember about Ron Dennis is he's not adverse to having a number 1 driver in the team in order to gain success. Alonso [s]has already signed[/s] will jump at the chance to be no1 for McLaren Honda.

If RD hadn't been there then maybe. With RD there? Why? There are no guarantees that McL will produce a decent chassis or that Honda will produce a better engine than Mercedes particularly given a year's head start for Merc. Don't forget that Honda didn't exactly set the world alight when running an F1 team so success isn't a given.

^this
+ I dont think Alonso will trust RD again. For Alonso, he needs to go to a team that is ready to win.

If I were Alonso, I would stick with Ferrari, they have James Allison who will design next years car, talented chap. hey have a lot of new technical staff they need to give time to produce the good - as Mercedes have done.

The biggest danger for McLaren - a Williams style slump.

The biggest danger for McLaren - a Williams style slump.

When did they last win a title....and the time before that was Mika Hakinnen..

Williams won at Spain two years ago. McLaren last won in 2012, the Brazilian GP.
McLaren last won the drivers in 2008 and Constructors in 98.
Williams last won drivers & constructor in 97.

At least McL have consistently (until recently) been up there, usually second best. Williams went wrong when they stopped being a works team - which interestingly is kind of where McL are right now. Maybe next year being the works Honda team will help them improve.

McL actually 'won' the constructors in 2007 too don't forget but had it stripped after spygate.

Good points about Mclaren. Why develop an engine / chassis combination you are only going to run for a year. But still Force India are making them look pretty stupid

I don't really subscribe to the theory that work developping the car this year is wasted. They issue they reported in 2013 was that the 2012 cars was mostly good but they didn't often know why. That meant that the 2013 car wasn't good but they similarly didn't know why and therefore didn't know what to do to fix it. The worry is that that seems to have translated through to 2014 so far and unless they can break through that they'll never have a decent 2015 car.

It's a bit like Ferrari - Massa was quoted saying that Williams at least add things to the car and they work as expected - they may not be the best team but they at least develop and things improve. Red Bull are so good (until now and largely that seems to be out of their direct control as the chassis seems fundamentally good) because they develop and make their car better. They were really the only team that got a handle on EBDs.

I think in the coming years we will see the likes of VW, BMW, Nissan (under infinity) come to grid either through engines suppliers or works teams.

So, the likes of Sauber, Force India are prime candidates for buyouts by manufacturers. Thats the beauty of the new engines and drive train - it can be linked directly to road car development.

Im looking forward to a more 'logical' formula 1. 🙂

IIRC VW have recently ruled out F1 from their plans - they're sticking to the Audis in Endurance racing where they're already getting a lot of success from similar hybrid technology (albeit diesel).

With Haas looking like he's coming into F1 and allegedly wanting a US based team there's always the possibility that he's got some sort of backing from Ford or GM.

As for the season being boring it's still too early to tell IMO, things can and do change in F1. It seems quite likely to me the two Mercs will end up taking each other out of at least one race.

I can't see Audi (VAG) in F1 in the near future, the endurance racing and saloon cars is a much better fit for the brand. Mercedes have been trying to lose the dull tag for a long time, being seen as third best to BMW and Audi with their road cars in terms of performance. F1 does that for them after the link up with McClaren.

RD is a pretty smart operator, in a financially tight era they've hung on pretty well but its very feasible he's written of 2014 and is focused on next year. Merc have their own team it's not hard to imagine McClaren would want to go elsewhere.

Since 1999 Mclaren have only won once.

One title in 15yrs+

Apart from 2007. Ferrari had a similar gap then they practically owned the title for a while. What's your point? Things ebb and change, teams rise and fall and sometimes risa again. Do we write them all off?

They arent the mclaren of old days are they. When will they attract a top driver? 2016?

McLaren Honda with a big title sponsor in 2015 and maybe a car designed with input from some of the best aero guys in the business. Yeah they'll be scratching around for people to fill those seats...

Edit - and aiui they've already got an option on a wdc who beat Hamilton in the same car over the course of a season.

So 2016. 2015 wont be an amazing winning car from scratch will it.

Two years away. Maybe.

I think McLaren have an identity issue. Their supposed raison d'être is F1 but their road car programme, ownership model etc means IMHO lack of identity, direction etc.

Now, Ron will try and address it so let's wait and see.

Button? He hasnt won a race for two years and now blames a team mate

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12479/9307183/jenson-button-says-mclaren-are-being-hurt-by-the-inexperience-of-kevin-magnussen

His title year was due to (genius) hiding the double diffuser from other teams

Makes me wonder if Macca are getting the full package from Merc with them jumping ship to Honda shirley Merc wont want all their tech going to Honda for free.

I think McLaren have an identity issue. Their supposed raison d'être is F1 but their road car programme, ownership model etc means IMHO lack of identity, direction etc.

Yeah, Ferrari really struggle with that...

Button? He hasnt won a race for two years and now blames a team mate

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12479/9307183/jenson-button-says-mclaren-are-being-hurt-by-the-inexperience-of-kevin-magnussen

His title year was due to (genius) hiding the double diffuser from other teams

Also, the double diffuser was also being used by Williams so hardly hidden.

Yeah, Ferrari really struggle with that...

IIRC button won the last race of 2012 and since then McLaren haven't had a car capable of winning, so I doubt Hamilton Alonso or vettel would have scored many wins in his seat last year. Alonso hasn't won for a year now so is he losing it too? Buttons not the fastest over a single lap, not great at driving round problems but can and has delivered results over a season. I'd say he's a safe bet for picking up results and developing a new package alongside a quick young talent ( BOTTAS?) but will be retired by the time it really starts to deliver.

button didnt have it all his own way when he won his title, i remember plenty of fight backs from the mid field due to issues, in fact wasnt there a great drive in Brazil in his title winning year.

Brawn had no money to develop so Button got his big headstart in 2009 and then the rest of the field (esp Red Bull) caught up so the last few races he was having to chase from midfield (though admittedly Rubens seemed to cope better than Button in qualifying later in the season)

back2basics - Member

button didnt have it all his own way when he won his title, i remember plenty of fight backs from the mid field due to issues, in fact wasnt there a great drive in Brazil in his title winning year.

Yep, great overtake on Kobayashi in that race IIRC

Oh dear...

[img] [/img]

...I think I'd rather have quieter cars if this is the best they can do to make them louder!

Looks like they've taken advice from the MaxPower crew!

I'm sure they're just doing it to take the piss out of Bernie. Or at least I hope so.

Will he be able to hear it from prison 😈

I'm going with a suspended sentence due to his age.

[img] :large[/img]

FWIW, the first reports suggest that the trumpet makes no real difference to the sound.

Talk about classic F1 political stupidity though. They could be shouting about how clever the sport is to have made the engines 30% more efficient and that they're going to save the planet(!), instead they're complaining that they're not noisy enough 🙄

not good for McLaren
[url= http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28051.html? ]No title sponsor[/url]
although Alonso will bring his big Spanish sponsorship back with him 😉

Despite all the talk from Mercedes this week about teams catching up, i suspect they will still be well ahead unless we get safety car issues.
I have a sneaky feeling Nico will dominate this weekend.

Would be interesting to see how a fully working Vettel will compare to Ricardo.

no Live BBC this weekend.

Good programme on ITV4 last night, Historic Monaco GP:

https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/monaco-historic-grand-prix

I think they do the historic race every two years but it's the first time I've seen it on TV.

They had pre-40's, 1960-66, 1970s in there. Great to watch the old beauties ragging around the harbour. Fair few crashes too, they weren't holding back 😀

a little article not making much press, an interview with the ousted Domencalli accidentally said he phoned Vettel on the day he left - asked to why he did that, he then said "you'll have to find that out for yourself"

EDIT: this also leans a bit weight to the rumors Horner is taking bernie's job next year and leaving RBR and Newey to Ferrari also - is this the end of RBR as we know it.

Good programme on ITV4 last night, Historic Monaco GP:

Is there a link for that article, back2basics?

Good programme on ITV4 last night, Historic Monaco GP

I thought that was brilliant. Usually I'm not into historic as its big open tracks, cars not been driven tothe max etc but ^ was awesome. The sliding-Alfa/ERA battle was 😯 - the trust between those guys was ace.

The F1 ones was brilliant, wishing I was back in the days watching those formulas.

shermer75 - Member
Is there a link for that article, back2basics?

This one, maybe? http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/domenicali-says-he-quit-f1-and-called-vettel/

Soooo....... Rosberg sets the fastest time and then make a mistake and 'crashes' at the point on the circuit where Hamilton is fastest (and is ahead on that lap) causing the yellow flags to come out and everyone behind to back off - inc LH.
Did he do it on purpose? I think so. Used to think he was OK but now think he's a kn0b.

Good, F1 needs someone to get a bit ruthless and spice things up! Beats talking about the lack of noise all the time

Well if it was deliberate (and I'm not sure it was), it was definitely the best way to "affect" the whinging sod. Mentally he seems a bit fragile. He might think twice about going out last next time.

Rosberg is starting to come across as a bit of a prick to be honest. Hope Lewis shows him who the better driver is tomorrow.

Well judging by his sulk, Lewis thinks it was deliberate so should be some fireworks today 😀

You watch the in car replays. I'm certain he did it on purpose. There was far too much action on the steering wheel as he came down the hill - almost as if he was trying to hide what he was doing under a veil of indecision.
Shame, cos as sharkbait says, I used to think he was ok.

Asked whether his relationship with Rosberg was "even more like Senna and Prost now", Hamilton said after qualifying: "Essentially."
When it was suggested the two drivers would have to sit down and discuss the incident, Hamilton said: "I don't know if Senna and Prost sat down and talked it out. I quite like the way Senna dealt with it, so I'm going to take a page out of his book."

The drivers know what the score was and DC certainly thought there was some inconsistency to his driving when they did the side by side VT comparison between his pole setting lap and his 'off' lap, he seemed to stop short of an accusation but he implied something odd went on. Same speed, same line, but some strange steering inputs on the approach to the corner......maybe to induce a front wheel lock up under braking dare I suggest, so that when they reviewed the data it wouldn't show a deliberate and harsh brake input to lock the wheels up or risk locking more than one wheel so he didn't crash into the barrier???

Anyway, he got away with it and Lewis can be all over his rear diffuser all race and won't be able to pass. I hope he keeps his cool, comes in second if no opportunity presents itself, and takes it to the next round. Monaco is a nonsense of a GP anyway and it's about time it was relegated to some sort of showcase event like Goodwood.

Rosberg is starting to come across as a bit of a prick to be honest.

But not as much of a sulky child as Lewis gets when things don't go his way.

I can't see that Nico did it on purpose - too many variables to be worthwhile imo, not to mention that it just doesn't seem to match the way he's operated thus far in his career.

Hamilton had every right to be hacked off though - Nico's mistake robbed him of pole. It's just one of those things that happens in motor sport but that doesn't make it much easier to accept.

It'll be interesting to see the start. I could see Nico giving up the first corner relatively easily if it's a close run thing as he didn't seem all that happy.

I don't think Rosberg did it on purpose, but he could have been more gracious about getting a pole in dubious circumstances.

Like if a tennis player wins a point when the ball hits the net, he could have acknowledged the unfairness.

Rather than his stance of 'I'm on pole and that's what matters'

Lewis was very petulant; which could lead to some first corner fireworks.

Should be good.

I don't think Lewis was petulant. He clearly thought it was deliberate, and he was clearly pissed off about it, but he didn't throw his toys, he just made no attempt to hide it, and why should he? No histrionics, no stomping and shouting, just kept his mouth shut as far as his speaking to the media obligations would allow him. I wouldn't respect him for saying 'It's fine, we're still best buddies' if he didn't feel like that.

In the press conference afterwards, Rosberg had all the look of a naughty kid who got away with raiding the sweetie jar. He said 'when it happened I genuinely thought it was all over'. Aye I bet you did son, for Lewis! The way he celebrated getting out of the car was a clear message to Hamilton too.

As a lot of driver pundits said, the way he was sawing at the steering wheel before Mirabeau looks as though he is trying to unsettle the car, then he mashes at the brakes to lock the wheels. I reckon he could still have made the corner, but went for the bail out, then to make sure the flags continued to be waved, reversed back up the escape road when he could have taken it to the end and parked it. It's not like he was in a rush to get back to the pits.

That plus the entire paddock, off the record, reckon it was deliberate...

Good to see Danny MacAskill getting some coverage on sky f1 too!

And if it was deliberate?

You can only say well done, perfectly judged to get away with it then which takes some skill. And of course it would be in the tradition of all the great F1 drivers - Senna or Prost or Schumacher for example.

Man up Lewis, you got done in quali, but if you're that much better than Nico (who was it saying he should be totally dominating Nico this week?) you get another go in the race.

If it was deliberate then first off it was done so well that the stewards couldn't see any evidence of it in the data (which includes steering inputs), secondly it was a fantastic piece of thinking to recognise that he was down on time at that point and despite very few people improving on their second run to know that lewis was (allegedly) up at that point. Even then driving to the end of the escape road was a dumb move - far better to catch an inside wheel on the kerb before the tunnel and end up sideways on the track or something - still minimal risk of damage but a believable mistake.

IMO the risk would outweigh the reward these days but then I'm not a highly competitive driver in the best car on the grid getting beaten by my team mate..m

Shaping up to be a good race today 🙂

All the headlines and the Prost v Senn BS sounds more like a sport in need for some thing to distract from what looks like a forgone conclusion already.

Happy with what Lauda and Warwick said.

If it was the other way round and the petulant one had gone off, would we be saying the same thing?

Hmmm. I'm sure it's great to be at the Monaco f1, but it's always a virtual procession.

They should get rid, or alter the track (god knows how!) to make more overtaking opportunities...

Ummm, say you didn't have Sky but wanted to watch the race live...

Hmmm. Dunno. Do you know anyone with Sky Go? I've got a mate with a spare Sky Go licence so can watch it on my laptop.

They should get rid, or alter the track (god knows how!) to make more overtaking opportunities..

north shore style short cut over the swimming pool?

Fun last 3 laps coming up.....?

fortunately I didn't make any mistakes

Pointed!!

Kindergarten time - If you can meet with triumph and disaster......

mommy mommy I got something in my eye

now lewis youve just ruined your tyres havnt you?

no mommy no

lewis

ok mommy your right but I cant admit it myself bevause my ego is sooo big at the moment I cannot accept why the team wont give everything to me and forget everyone else apart from me...and I wanaaaaa wiiiiiiin waaaaaaaaa
waaaaaa
waaaaaaaaa

both of them behaving like spoilt brats, Mercedes need to give them both a kick up the a**, stop the bickering in public and do their talking on the track!

back2basics - Member
mommy mommy I got something in my eye

I think he did it on purpose, and Lewis was right to call it how he did; no shouting or finger pointing, just a subtle yet clear message.

Monaco is a nonsense of a GP anyway

+1

Monaco and Spa are the only proper circuits left.

And possibly Monza.

Spa and Brands Hatch are still my favourite F1 circuits, if only because they have geographical relief.

Brands is a fabulous circuit. Vastly superior to some windswept desert up the M1. I was lucky enough to see a Grand Prix there. God I'm old.