[Closed] The F1 Thread...

They could have a switch they have to trigger (like the pit lane entry one) that restricts their speed in the event of a safety car so they maintain gaps. The speed would be set before each race to be one that is optimal for the circuit.

Then the cars would still be spread out around the circuit, surely part of the point of the safety car is when the pack bunches up it allows the marshals to safely clear away any debris

He excelled in the teams he was in before he joined RB.

That'll be the Toro Rosso he drove which at the time was a Red Bull with a different paint job.

This year will show his true colours.

Then the cars would still be spread out around the circuit, surely part of the point of the safety car is when the pack bunches up it allows the marshals to safely clear away any debris

That race was won at the start - lead drive in merc has the call on strategy and pits. Hence why Hamilton defended like his life depended on it before the first stops. Both drove a great race, loved it.

If you really want rid then just get all the cars to stop when the 'SC' notification is activated. When its safe everyone starts going again. It would be rubbish.

aside for my Lewis bashing and trolling also in the news.... it seems the F1 guru's are already looking at exhaust changes to bring a louder F1 back....

queue the inevitable loopholes and post-race-investigations into new illegal / legal exhausts and the arguments it was done to curb Mercedes pace (if indeed it does)

I quite liked the onboard "quieter" F1 footage, as DC said on our BBC commentary you can hear a lot more other "car" noises, like scrapping bottoms (!)....

I've got mates working in the support paddock and they are very happy by the quiet cars, they can actually talk to each other now!

A few years ago in club racing we had the quarter flag that was used to slow the whole field to 50mph. It just meant everyone caught up the leader who dictated the pace and then racing was resumed once the green flag was shown. I liked it, not sure why it was changed to a safety car...

Regarding running people wide and off the track, bring back grass and gravel traps, then it won't seem fair game! I don't see how it's acceptable to just take your line when someone is next to you....

I agree. It's made the sport more interesting as there is more to take in rather than just the monotonous 'whine' of the old V-8s. Maybe you notice it more when you are actually there, I've never been to an actual race do I guess I'll never know!

Red Bull's day in court today for the Ricciardo DQ. I hope the FIA win this one as RBs conduct seems to have been arrogant beyond belief.

Rumours on Twitter this morning that Stefano Domenicalli has left Ferrari

[i] Badger GP @BadgerGP
Follow

Stefano Domenicalli rumoured to have resigned at Ferrari. In other news, Ross Brawn has switched his phone off.[/i]

and
[i]
Adam Cooper @adamcooperF1
Follow

Lots of buzz on Twitter about exit of Stefano Domenicali. Montezemolo's face during the Bahrain GP was a big hint...[/i]

Ross Brawn has switched his phone off.

Meanwhile Martin Whitmarsh is watching his like a hawk 😉

Can't see MW at Ferrari, and given the downward trajectory of Mclaren under his management, I don't think they'd want him either!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113446

Domenicali has gone. Shame in the sense that he seemed like a decent guy but like Whitmarsh, he clearly didn't have enough success at the team to stay on.

Meanwhile in court, RB admit that their choice of fuel flow settings were advantageous to the tune of .4s per lap...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113447

It's going to be interesting to see which way this goes given that it could set quite a precedent if the 'advice' from the FIA during races is deemed not to hold any value at all.

I can't see how Red Bull can possibly win the case. It would put every other race position since the start of the season in doubt as the other teams would claim to have been hampered by the approved equipment. They'd probably have to nullify it all and start from zero next weekend

Well we all knew this was coming!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113446 <

Yeah, that too though again, RB are correct in that it is only 'advice' and not a regulatory thing technically but it could get rather silly.

Shame about Dominicali going, I always thought he was Ferraris voice of reason as opposed to do montezemelo's ranting. I don't know why he's gone, Ferrari were pretty much in the mix most years, just the usual RB dominance that got in the way of Alonso winning 2 more titles I reckon.

Which team boss are the Beeb going to talk to now? Domenicali was always there for a chat with them - maybe he should've been busier running the team?

Trouble is it's not directly attributable to him - he has nothing to do with the design or engineering of the car, but he is the one who hires and fires the people who are doing that and he should be the one who gets them to perform. If that's not happening then he has to go and they need to hope some new blood will give a quick fix in terms of motivation and a longer term fix in terms of personnel.

There's another interesting F1 court case brewing between RedBull & McLaren to do with the transfer of certain aero personnel from RB to Mac. Mac claim they have contracts with them, RB say the don't and that they'll be staying at RB. I think Pedromou is now on gardening leave from RB before he starts with McLaren but AIUI his #2 is also on the McLaren shopping list and is the one under dispute.

Red bull have lost their appeal, thank goodness. Nothing against red bull (except that smug git Horner. Oh and that smug git Vettel) but if they won it would have opened the floodgates for the teams to effectively police the regulations themselves - I couldn't see that going wrong, oh no.

After Newey admitted that their own calculations were 0.4s per lap faster than the FIA sensor derived ones I think they were done for. I agree with Mercedes that there should be a suspended punishment as well in case of further breaches of the rules.

Sorry for cheating RB should be suspended from the grid for a few races.

Nah, they were very clear and open about what they were doing so I reckon that losing the points is the right penalty, same as most other breaches. Compare for example to BAR getting a two race ban for what I would actually consider cheating - eg the hidden fuel tank that allowed them to run underweight for short periods in the race.

IMO they were a bit stupid/arrogant to do it regardless of the fact that they were probably right about the flow sensor accuracy and this has now set the precedent to make clear that it's not OK to just choose your own methods of measurement if you don't agree with those provided by the governing body.

Active suspension being mooted for a comeback, under the guise of cost saving! I'd think it more relevant if it was brought back under the guise of road car development going this way, there are already some seriously sophisticated suspension systems out there, about time F1 reflected it...I'd like to see some circuits with lots of brkaing bumps in to make it trickier for the systems though!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113465

Good piece on why Mattiacci was chosen as Domincalli's replacement.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113454?source=mostpopular

Soo.... Pedro Piquet. One to watch? .....

Someone mentioned on here about heads rolling at Ferrari

new guy is a scape goat, stop gap until real boss is found, around 4 races from end of season, and post alonso exit announcement who has imho left ferrari already, brawn and vettel for 2015, huge budget , hence the scuppering of the cost cap, it all begins to fall into place eh?

Where is James Allen on 5 Live?

Vettel gets passed by a Caterham .... priceless 🙂

Not the most exciting Grand Prix

Such a contrast to the last one. That was pretty dull.

cant take anything away from Lewis this time, what a fantastic race he had.

Vettel showing his "child" side, as i said previously, i think he's on his way to Ferrari to replace Alonso , and probably signed the contract before this year started to co-incide with Alonso's end of contract.

Ricciardo really showing great form here again

no Ferrari cant afford to lose Nando. better off getting rid of Kimi

I thought Vettel's radio message was quite amusing after he was told to let Ricciardo through:

"What tyres does he have?"
"Ricciardo is on the prime same as you"
"Tough Luck"

Then even more amusing when he got passed anyway after deciding he didn't want to yield!

I've been well impressed with Ricciardo this season at Red Bull. Shame about all the sensor trouble at Melbourne as he raced well at the season opener.

Didn't see it, but ...

Vettel tried to hold up his team-mate against pit orders and then was well beaten by him, having in the meantime possibly stopped him from getting 3rd ?

He'd better have a place lined up somewhere if he's going to piss about like that

Reading between the lines [url= http://www.pitpass.com/51438/Furious-F1-fellows-cry-foul-over-fickle-Fallows ]here[/url] it looks like Dan Fellows (Head Aerodynamicist at Red Bull) changed his mind about moving to McLaren after Ron Dennis came back, haha. I guess he had had enough of Ron Dennis already from when he worked at McLaren before!

so the dull-fest seems to have prompted the big wigs to start thinking about bringing back sparking undertrays, louder exhausts, etc etc to give the cars more excitement.

so............just go back to the frickin early 90's designs then!
have you seen the front wings and little winglets still on the fronts of the cars, lets simplfy that to cut costs, and the rear wings too and bodywork - then give them all bigger wider tyres, and hey presto much more grip based on mechanical!!!

So wet races are crap then? Because there's little mechanical grip in those races...

so the dull-fest seems to have prompted the big wigs to start thinking about bringing back sparking undertrays, louder exhausts, etc etc to give the cars more excitement.

I've been watching some of the old races from the late 80s to the early 90s and despite the often poor broadcast quality footage, you get a great sensation of speed from the cars, which all sound fantastic with V12 and V10 engines hitting the heady heights of 12,000rpm.

The problem is that you simply can't "un-invent" aerodynamics - the reason why the cars looked simpler and less fussy then is because the computing power used to design them as at a premium. Also, the cars then ran a lot of wing compared with today's designs. As for the return of sparks, this was the result of the undertray of the car bottoming out on the track, which had potentially very dangerous implications for grip.

IHMO the return to turbo engines is a mistake - I feel robbed of spectacle and the fact that there are only three engine suppliers in the sport (one of which has a clear lead) hardly helps to reduce costs. I'd have a different opinion if the F1 engines had to share a block with a production unit perhaps, like the BMW unit of the 1980s.

As for the cars, I'd like to see a cleaner look with an emphasis on mechanical grip. Aesthetically, the Ferrari 640 and McLaren MP4/5 epitomise the sport for me, especially when I see the modern breed of F1 car with an Ann Summers nosecone.

Sparks can fairly easily be generated again - just mandate skid blocks with maximum wear same as they do at present with the planks.

Turbo engines and probably all the electric systems were an absolute necessity - Merc and Renault would likely have pulled out otherwise due to the complete irrelevance of previous F1 engines to what's actually being made and sold now. Now F1 has Honda coming back (and they've stated that it's because of the turbo/electric PUs) and some point to the huge sums spent on the engines (sorry, PUs)

As to mechanical grip, it's very simplistic to looks for more of it. More grip = shorter braking distances which means less overtaking usually. And the point I made about wet races stands. I would suggest that they should look to make the wings much less effective again and open up development of venturis/ground effects as these are less affected by following another car.

Nosecones - yet another rule cockup - people said the cars would look crap/odd, nothing happened... Same as the double diffusers.

The new engine regs are a good thing, they've brought some genuine innovation back to the sport.

Personally I think they should relax the engine regs a little and just make it a fuel limited formula, that would see some innovation on performance vs consumption

I feel robbed of spectacle and the fact that there are only three engine suppliers in the sport

Four from next season with Honda and strong rumours BMW are looking at coming back.

Also the new Haas entry is rumoured to be using the Cosworth turbo engine, probably badged as something else.

Personally I think they should relax the engine regs a little and just make it a fuel limited formula, that would see some innovation on performance vs consumption

I thought that but there was a good article somewhere explaining why that wouldn't have made for good races.

And just found this too which explains that there would have been safety issues too
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113141

"If you have no fuel flow limit, the fastest thing is to use a huge boost at the beginning of the straight and then lift off.

"There will be huge and very dangerous differences of speed [between cars] on the same lap, with a driving style that is not really F1.

And of course, the limit makes it more relevant to non-racing cars too as it means efficiency is key.

Found the article:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/technology-explained/f1-2014-why-fuel-flow-is-limited/

With a set amount of fuel for a race, you have a pointless economy run before a wasteful dash to the flag, a set rate of flow promotes flat-out racing throughout, because hoarding fuel means extra weight sloshing in your tank. It would be totally unsatisfactory to have racing based on so many gallons for the race distance, so the only sensible alternative was to limit the maximum instantaneous power

If this instant fuel consumption was not managed, more power could be achieved simply by pumping more fuel into the cylinders, as was the case with the conventional turbo engines of the past and which is the exact opposite of what they wanted. But if the fuel flow was restricted, it would put the emphasis on producing performance from fuel-efficient turbochargers: something that could be directly transferred to production cars.

As a spectator, I'm not as concerned about the configuration of the engine itself as I am about the noise. Having been to Goodwood a few times, the V10 howl is a missing piece of the show for me - if the sound could be synthesised then I have no problem with watching a hybrid V6 turbo punting around the track, that compromise would be an acceptable one.

Thing is the vast majority of people don't watch F1 at tracks but on TV so IMO the sound is something that people really close to the sport (eg actually attend) worry about more than they probably need to as their perspective is different.

Good article clubber. I get what you are saying and I agree. My point is if you have a total fuel limit (100kg) a flow rate limit in place then why not open up the other aspects of the engine regs?

1 turbo? 2 turbos? No turbos?
6 cyl? 8 Cyl? 4 cyl?
****els? Turbines?

I guess development costs would skyrocket if the engine formula was this open as manufacturers experimented with the best configurations, but it would guarantee some interesting engineering.

Moving aside from engines for the minute has anybody been watching the special documentaries Sky are running this week to commemorate 20 years since the passing of Senna?
Watched 'The Last Team Mate' last night. I never rated Hill as a driver but whenever he talks about the racing and how his big break came about he always seems genuinely humble, even when describing the events of the last race of 94.
Was also good to see and hear from Ratzenbergers team mate David Brabham.
Well worth a watch IMO.

EDIT ~ Just spotted a thread on this further down the page...ignore me

Thing is most of the configurations are well known so it's likely they'd all end up with the same thing anyway. This way, they have PUs that are broadly similar to what road cars have. They did discuss V4s actually but it was deemed that that was just not F1 enough.

+1 richmtb

again here we are on about costs, the reason for the tight engine regs was to reduce cost, but its all just been transferred onto Aero, winglets, suspension and bench testing.

i think i would have preferred a semi-open engine regs, and very tight aero regs and underfloor regs. PLUS standard parts for almost everything but engine & gearbox, brake systems and steering wheels.
(i.e. scrap £40,000 wheel nuts!)

PLUS standard parts for almost everything but engine & gearbox, brake systems and steering wheels.
(i.e. scrap £40,000 wheel nuts!)

Agreed!

[url=

this was working hard at the wheel[/url] (Senna Monaco Content)

[url= http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113705? ]Autosport news[/url]

seems there may be some who are listening to common sense

"The ideas that are up for discussion during Thursday's meeting are:

2015
Tyre blanket ban
Fuel system simplification
Brake duct simplification
Front wing simplification
Gearbox usage flow brought in line with engine life
Increase in curfew
Ban on front and rear interconnected suspension

2016
Standard front impact structure
Standard rear impact structure
Standard final drive system
Standard steering rack

2017
FIA standard active suspension
Move to 18-inch wheel rims"

I agree with some of that but I do think that they need to make sure that F1 remains a techncially challenging formula rather than just a spec car one.

Tyre blanket ban is an interesting one - it may mean that tyres become less temperature sensitive (with consequent loss of max grip when in operating window) but that should mean more cars being competitive rather than struggling to get enough heat in their tyres as happens quite regularly at the moment.

The various simplifications make sense too and I think that all the 2016 standards are sensible, maybe with the exception of the final drive system (or does that just mean the diff?)

Active suspension might be a positive but it would need very carefully spec'd rules to avoid the cars being overly stuck to the track or overly complex.

maybe with the exception of the final drive system (or does that just mean the diff?)

I read that as gearbox output right down to wheels. Which could include a bunch of torque/slip sensing electronic stuff to do "assist" the diff.

back2basics - Member

Autosport news

seems there may be some who are listening to common sense

"The ideas that are up for discussion during Thursday's meeting are:

Aside from tyre blankets ban and active suspension which I'm undecided on, that all seems pretty sensible. I'm not convinced it will truely cut costs though. I imagine the teams will just spend the same cash in other areas.

Standardization of the larger components will help bring down costs - but F1 exists because teams will engineer the heck out of a myriad small components to gain a new advantage.

I think the electronics have to be an area up for review...the steering wheel of a modern car is fantastically complex, adjusting brake balance, fuel flow, engine mapping, etc. Why not have a simple brake balance dial - essential given the weight distribution of the car will change as fuel is used, a pit lane speed limiter and a radio and leave it at that?

this is getting embarrassing for the other teams !!! ferrari 2 seconds off the pace and red bull a second !

2017...

[img] [/img]

Just watched the qualifying and looking at those shiny silver McLarens. I'd love it if they had red and white livery next year to go with the Honda engines. Like in the good old days.

I'll bet they'd do any colour as long as there had a sponsor. Still no news on that?

so when Vettel gets the Red Bull working properly, we'll have
Merc top 2
RBR next 2 + 20 seconds down the road
Ferrari next 2 + 10 seconds down the road

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

still more heads to roll at Ferrari, i dont expect Alonso to finish the season with them to be honest. He'll take garden leave when he announces his move, or, he'll openly shred ferrari to bits and that will put him out to pasture.
McLaren Honda for him.
Vettel and Brawn and Newey for Ferrari
Kimi will decide depending on who gives him the most ice creams.

That vettel is a crap driver and Hamilton is just the best driver.
It is either that or the car matters more than the driver.
MMM hard to tell

I dont get it what everyone wants to know is who is best Vettel , Alonso or hamilton or an other

We dont have a clue and it is pointless to watch this

Noone thought the '88 season was boring. So long as LH and NR are allowed to race there will be some interest.

Thing is whilst LH is clearly the fastest out and out driver on the grid (although not necessarily the best driver on the grid all round) NR is no Alain Prost and I just don't think he can take the fight on.

Two races he was in a miles quicker car and twice he has failed to capitalise.

Now, if the rumours are true that FA is looking at a Merc drive next year and we had LH and FA in the same team again that would be something regardless of how much quicker than the rest of the field the car was

@junkyard - so therefore we should not watch any competition that is not reliant on anything external to the human body - naked mud wrestling it is then 😉

Just finished catching up on highlights and everything this morning, does anyone else reckon Pastor Maldonado has a button on his steering wheel which just transmits a pre-recorded 'I crash the car' ?

Rosberg '1 more lap and I'd have overtaken Lewis'.

No. You ragged your car to get within 0.5sec of him locking up twice in the last turn alone. Your own tyres were going to be toast after the finish line too.

Even with set up issues- hear Lewis really questioning his race engineer and throwing back one suggestion quite bluntly? Lewis was ahead. Once upon a time with setup issues Lewis would drop down the field.

[quote=back2basics ]@junkyard - so therefore we should not watch any competition that is not reliant on anything external to the human body - naked mud wrestling it is then

i think I would rather see them in the cars than doing that 😉

there could be some sort of evenish playing field so we can actually know who is the best driver as it is dead easy to tell which is the best car each year.

although i am not a Lewis fan i agree @hora - he has come back this year with as a more rounded driver still with a lot of talent, where previously he would have chucked it away by burning up the rear tyres or getting angry.
my only fear is he gets too confident at winning and if he then makes a mistake or has a bad weekend, he'll be all moody again and fall behind. at the moment though he is top of his game.

I disagree with his hora. Nico would have had him

I'm not convinced there aren't team orders at Mercedes. I know it's difficult to overtake at Spain, but Rosberg was over a second a lap faster then strangely can't get past. Then you see Vettel catching people at a second a lap and being able to get past them when he catches them. Why the difference?
Vettel had the drive of the day for me yesterday.

Unless the others improve this year promises to be even duller than the Vettel years.

1988 was pretty dull until the end.

I disagree with his hora. Nico would have had him

No. Hamo would have been very wide (again). See his unusual victory 'wiggle'? To me that said 'this is what I would have done'

Fernando will not go to McLaren if Ron is there and I don't blame him.

However I do think he will get increasingly agitated and Luca Di Montezemelo will run out of patience with him. Could we see a parting of way like Prost left Ferrari in 91?

Lewis driving very well, appears to have the measure of Rosberg and it does feel like he is wearing him down. Whether he will succeed is another matter. Historical quotes from Lewis's ex team mates (Alonso, Button, Heikki) would suggest he is a very tough character and his team mates need to be mentally tough to stand a chance. Great battle.

I know it's difficult to overtake at Spain, but Rosberg was over a second a lap faster then strangely can't get past.

when was that? eg. according to The Independent

From 4.8 seconds on the 46th lap, Hamilton saw his lead cut steadily: it fell to 4.6 seconds, 3.6, 3.7, 3.1, 2.3 and 2.0 over the six ensuing laps before he found a better way to preserve his tyres and opened it to 2.7 by the 54th lap.

Vettel had fresh tyres so much better traction, hence he was able to brake later, take different lines etc. and cruised past cars who were eking out older tyres to the end. Nico might have had a slight tyre advantage over Lewis but that wouldn't have been enough on its own - maybe DRS might've helped but I reckon Lewis would've had a much wider car by then 😉

Unless the others improve this year promises to be even duller than the Vettel years.

1988 was pretty dull until the end.

I thought 1988 was a fascinating season, not a all dull as Senna and Prost raced wheel to wheel to the end.

If that does not excite you I suggest to you look at Touring cars or better still, stock cars!

How old are Newey's kids now? Could he be tempted by the large buckets of cash Ferrari are willing to throw at him? Could be enough to keep FA though by my reckoning it'd only benefit the car in 2016 at the earliest.

I can't see FA at McL while RD is there but I could definitely see him go to Merc though I still don't think he likes having a team mate who's in his face in any way. I think that KR was signed up at a point that Ferrari were concerned that he'd jump ship or were a bit hacked off with him

I just hope it doesn't continue like this all season with Lewis 1st, Nico 2nd, only for Lewis to then break down in the last race with Nico taking the championship due to double points!

...I think I'd make a special trip to Bernie's house if that happened!

I'm enjoying the racing this season, I think its far from boring. The Lewis / Nico battle will run and run.

WTF are Mclaren doing though. They have the best engine and they are probably the sixth fastest car on the grid. Ron Dennis's triumphant return looks to be a damp squib. All the Honda power in the world won't help them if they can't sort out their chassis

I just cannot see Mercedes not having a German driver in the car. If Nico bottles it / has a bust up with Lewis I can see him going to McLaren / Ferrari / Redbull.

2015 could see:

Mercedes - Lewis / Nico Hulkenberg
Ferrari - Vettel / Raikonen
Redbull - Fernando / Daniel
McLaren - Nico Rosberg / Jenson