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Martin Brundle - who know his stuff - has suggested the ideal situation would be 6 x 2 Car manufacturers teams and 6 x 2 Car independent teams (affiliated to one of the manufacturers who would supply them the engine but leave them to run the team independently). This would give a grid of 24.
As of 2015 there will be four "manufacturer" teams: Ferrari; Mercedes; Red Bull/Renault; Mclaren/Honda.
Audi have ruled themselves out of F1, which means they are actually probably interested so they could be the fifth manufacturer to join.
No idea who a sixth might be? Toyota failed pretty badly previously they will have no appetite for a return. The big US firms don't really get F1 so I can't see Ford, GM or Chrysler putting together a team. BMW had a decent amount of success and maybe interested especially if Audi enter the fray. Who know maybe we might see a Hyundai F1 car!
None of this is likely in the short term though.
No idea who a sixth might be? Toyota failed pretty badly previously they will have no appetite for a return. The big US firms don't really get F1 so I can't see Ford, GM or Chrysler putting together a team. BMW had a decent amount of success and maybe interested especially if Audi enter the fray. Who know maybe we might see a Hyundai F1 car!
Porsche?
Chrysler already have a F1 team, they call it Scuderia Ferrari
Can't see Honda wanting to do anything other than engines, especially after their last two seasons before they left.
Porsche own 50% of the VAG group so I can't see them doing it if Audi won't.
Doesn't really leave many other options. Kia?
Porsche?
Nah - they've only just starting in sports cars again.
Audi - maybe, they've nothing left to achieve in sports cars at the minute. The fact they've gone for a 'simple' engine this year with little energy recover suggests a) they're not interested in it, or b) they're putting there efforts elsewhere.
I do hope Jules Bianchi's care is taken into account when they folded.
I would imagine Ferrari are looking after this, he was effectively their driver.
Further proof that Alonso has a complete inability to panic: [url= http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/29953941 ]BBC[/url]. Sees flames pouring out of the self same car that he is very securely fastened into, doesn't pull over until he sees a fire point so he can get out, grab an extinguisher and put the fire out himself. Classy move!
www.crowcube.com is owned by the same company (Smith & Williamson) as the administators currently running the Caterham F1 team [url= http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/11/formula-finbarr-caterham-administrator-turns-team-boss-to-lead-revival/ ](James Allen on F1)[/url]
A question, if I may:
Every GP, the commentators talk about how the track is difficult at first, and needs to "rubber in" before we see proper performances in qualifying.
Why don't they send out a fleet of touring cars (or something with little downforce) with tyres made of the same compound in the week running up to the race to do a load of skidz and rubber it up beforehand ?
Yours in ignorance, ... etc
Why don't they send out a fleet of touring cars (or something with little downforce) with tyres made of the same compound in the week running up to the race to do a load of skidz and rubber it up beforehand ?
Part of the challenge is adapting to the track as it evolves throughout the weekend.
There are often other cars and events going on during the build up to the race but nothing beats having the same rubber going down.
He's not playing the averages is he?
Watching this race as it doesn't involve me getting up at stupid o'clock.
It's painfully boring. Guys just driving around at similar speeds managing tyres. It's contrived garbage.
must be a horrible feeling having Hamilton chasing you down
Hamo is going get this
Ooh this is
boring
I thought the radio5live team was going to bum the radio/mic over Nico at the finish line. Acting as though hes the Messiah 'won the pole position for the season etc/surely its his title now if hamo doesnt finish second' etc.
Christian Horner complaining that the Mercedes dominance is unfair.
Really?
Al heard on the eay home was a terrible discussion about tyres., blisters, the size of blisters, the width of wear on tyres, when tarmac was laid ......it sounded proper thrilling
Thankfully Hora still managed to find something sexual in it
I thought it was a half decent race - not a classic by any means, but fairly entertaining. Shame Hamilton's pit crew made him stay out/he overcooked it, otherwise it would have been more exciting at the end. Clearly the better driver again for 90% of the race.
Will be gutted if Hamilton comes 3rd/worse in the last race - and it will only be down to bad luck if he does.
If button is that good and the rumours are true that he is leaving McLaren then why aren't any of the other teams snapping him up ???
Cos they can't afford him
If button is that good and the rumours are true that he is leaving McLaren then why aren't any of the other teams snapping him up ???
There are no seats available at any of the top teams.
Cos they can't afford him
There are no seats available at any of the top teams.
Such a shame - he's showed today & over the course of the season he's still got what it takes, perhaps more so than someone like Kimi (& I say that as a fan of Kimi)
Most salaries will be getting negotiated down now
Vetted is probably the only driver that'll have got somewhere near what they wanted, once he signed for Ferrari and Red Bull wrong footed Alonso all the other top drivers were then left with the threat of Alonso taking their seat if they couldn't take less 🙂
Lewis blames his team for what happened, yet as he was coming round towards the end of the lap he should have confirmed he was coming in, not just carry on quietly knowing he destroyed the tyres... for once lewis side of the garage seem to get it wrong, to be honest nico's side has done some really bad strategy errors in the past.
I do wonder how merc would have handled it if RBR or Ferrari or Williams would be mixing it with them in the year, it seems at the slightest sign of pressure things start to go wrong with them....
as i said before
3 car teams, its a done deal - why - because Force India wont be in 2015
curious also, Sauber (ferrari b team) sign 3 drivers for next year
back2basics - MemberLewis blames his team for what happened,
Hmmm?
"At the end of the day I locked the rears into Turn 4 and under rotation that spun me around, the second time it happened this weekend - no one's fault but mine."
Or not.
I'm definitely a LH fan and I sincerely hope he comes out on top come the end of the season but IMO he's been disappointing this year, overall.
In too many races he's been outqualified by Nico and then mistakes like his spin in Rio have compounded that.
Put it this way, I don't think that FA would have made the same mistake. Or his hero Senna for that matter.
michaelbowden - Member
back2basics - Member
Lewis blames his team for what happened,
Hmmm?"At the end of the day I locked the rears into Turn 4 and under rotation that spun me around, the second time it happened this weekend - no one's fault but mine."
Or not.
Before that he stated the team left him out later than what he wanted.
Put it this way, I don't think that FA would have made the same mistake. Or his hero Senna for that matter.
Senna would have announced he's coming in NOW an told them to get ready, and if they weren't ready he'll just drive the car into the garage and quit. No messing.
The Merc cars ARE streets ahead of the others. I don't think Nico is a great driver, just that hes in a great car. Lewis has been good but not amazing- just flashes of his awesome potential again.
Once Nico's won this he'll just default into the pack next year+
IIMO he's been disappointing this year, overall.In too many races he's been outqualified by Nico and then mistakes like his spin in Rio have compounded that.
😯
Don't really know how you can say that - he's been on top pretty much every race day with very few mistakes if you look at it over the course of a season. 10 wins to Rosberg's 5 and he'd have won more if it wasn't for retirements/Rosberg cheating.
To be fair to LH, I think that 'blaming the team' comes from the questions asked - driver gets asked what happened, states 'I made a mistake, it's my fault'. Press asks for further details, driver explains that the team asked him to change a setting and then he forgot to change the other setting. Press reports 'Driver blames team', which clearly doesn't actually reflect the interview but is a juicier headline.
LH lost his first world championship because of that China incident where the team left him out too long and he didn't insist on coming in. As a first year driver, that was excusable, now less so.
As I said, I think he's a fantastic driver but not the overall package that FA is - that's the disappointment - admittedly it's against a very high standard but if LH's legacy is to be recognised as one of the true greats then IMO he's not measuring up right now.
Yesterdays mistake was a lot different to China 2008.
Yesterday they saw that small window of opportunity after Rosberg pitted as their only chance to overtake. They just pushed it a bit too far (team and Ham), probably tempted by the fact it's a very short lap so thought the tyres would hang-on.
He could easily have just sat back and rolled in in 2nd place.
This is why I prefer racing drivers like Hamilton to 'thinking' drivers like Prost etc.
what i cannot fathom is why he (LH) hasnt resigned for Merc yet and states he wants to "get the title dealt with first"
but why? for what possible reason? he has the best car and there is nothing to say anywhere else isnt as good, and , lets face it, there is no where else to go for him - so is it because Merc wont pay him what he wants? or he doesnt think he would win again with them? but why on earth would he think that?
As has been said elsewhere I also think the 'where will Alonso go next year' hinges on whether Hamilton wins the championship this year.
If he wins, he can head off to McLaren for a new challenge with Honda. And Alonso in at Merc.
If he loses, he'll stay with Merc for another crack next year.
as already stated, Fernando said he wasnt going to a car with a merc engine. so thats not a good theory.
"new challenge" - this is what i dont understand - he'd want to stay with a winning team, not just take a mid field untested one and potentially waste his career, especially as he's already been to mclaren. it just doesnt smack right with me....when going to the Merc he said he wanted to win as many titles as possible. i wonder if bridges have already been burned between him and merc
or perhaps, he has an "escalator" value in his contract that see's him paid more per-world-title he gets.
Hasn't LH just let his management lapse. He was probably waiting for that to lapse to negotiate himself without them taking a cut. With two or three races left (when it expired) he may as well wait for the season to finish and not have the distraction.
The thing with Alonso though is why is he waiting to make an announcement?
He's either buying a stake in Lotus (as I can't see him just being a driver for them again).
Going to McLaren? - but playing hard-ball with the management over contracts hardly seems the best way to get them on you side after the way he left.
Or waiting for another outcome - eg what happens at Merc.
And why Lewis back to McLaren? - because if he wins another title with them it will be in a 'McLaren Honda' - the same combo as his hero Senna.
One further possibility is that three cars for RB and Ferrari have been agreed and there's some manoeuvring around that - eg Button to Ferrari in car 3 - but it can't be announced yet because 3 car teams aren't official.
Button to Ferrari in car 3
Well three world champions in a team would be something. I can't see it though. 3rd drivers (if we get any) will be younger guys not looking for a seven figure salary. Even Ferrari has a limit to how much it can spend.
Button is a class act but sadly I think his days in F1 are numbered
I agree it's unlikely, it all just seems rather odd about what's holding up the announcements.
perhaps nothing will be decided until the FIA 2015 championship entry deadline is met and we see just how many cars will be on the grid,
Alonso could be in Ferrari #3
and button in RBR #3
i cannot see Mc & Merc and Williams wanting to run 2 car teams with the others running 3, so i can imagine they will ask Bernie for them to as well, and then Bernie can say it was all the "teams wanting to do it" rather then him having to state he *had* to do it because the grid is getting smaller.
If button is that good and the rumours are true that he is leaving McLaren then why aren't any of the other teams snapping him up ???
Simple really. Hes no better than average but thinks he deserves a top drivers salry because Ross Braun designed a superb car he had the good fortune to be driving that year. None of the top teams want him because they can get better for the money. None of the small teams want him because hes too expensive for what he can offer.
Frankly that's silly. He's not a FA but he's clearly better than average.
Few of the teams want him because he's expensive and he's old. Given that the top teams' seats are full that would mean one of the teams already struggling for money would have to fork out a load more cash. Hardly a great combination.
[quote=nemesis ]Given that the top teams' seats are full that would mean one of the teams already struggling for money would have to fork out a load more cash. Hardly a great combination.
There's more than that - he has now quite publically stated a couple of times that he only wants to drive a car which he can win races in. Hence completely ruling out a move to any of the smaller teams (I think it only rules in RBR Ferrari and Merc as possible moves, though I suppose Williams might be considered to have a car which could win at the moment). Intriguingly I don't think that anybody has considered that 3 car teams could open up a seat for him at RBR as they already have a young relative novice driving for them next year.
The idea that he isn't a top driver is laughable.
even drivers in the best car can still kek it all up - just look at David Coulthards career, and for that matter Damon Hill's
Button i believe is a top driver, on his day, when he has the car to his liking he can come from the back of the field and make clear clean passing moves on the very best - the car Brawn gave him did that and suited him perfectly, but lets face it, he deserved it after the dogs of cars he given to him for years at Honda, and he still stuck it out with the team.
Is he the right material now for other top teams - not really, for some reason i can only see his "fit" is with McLaren/Honda
How long have 2 car teams been normal/compulsary?
I dont think 3 cars teams would detract from the racing really, its another car on the grid at the end of the day, although some additional thought might be required regarding points, as teams with 3 'good' cars could push the smaller teams out the points.
I think they should just allow 2-4 cars per team, their choice to bring however many they want to each race. Would give the smaller teams a chance at more exposure (its not the physical cars that cost but the design/research right?). Just restrict them to a single 'pit' for servicing during the race and no 'stacking' at pit stops or it'll block the pit.
Talking about the practical side of it - you're quite right, he quite understandably doesn't want to drive for a non-top team. I think the driver market has been a little unusual this year which has meant that Button's been caught in the middle. With RB making a point of only taking on young drivers and Merc not changing (probably! 🙂 ) the whole thing of Alonso and Vettel changing teams unexpectedly (I reckon most thought it'd be for 2016) has meant the musical chairs has left JB with no seat. Basically it's RB's fault 🙂
How long have 2 car teams been normal/compulsary?
For as long as F1 has been F1.
The risk in F1 with reducing the number of constructors is that there's a much bigger impact to the sport if one leaves. Given the costs and history of manufacturers having come and gone as it suits in the past, I'd say that's a likely scenario.
Talk at present is for three, four or five constructors (Ferrari, Williams, McL, Merc, RB). The first three IMO will never leave F1 as it's basically what they are (maybe less so Ferrari nowadays with the road car business but they get paid not to ever leave...). If Merc or RB started to fail to deliver on the track (as typically happens on a cyclical basis) or if the company had bad results or just decided to spend its marketing budget differently, there's a fair chance that they'd pull out, that could leave only three constructors. Unless Williams can find some more money then they'd struggle to compete with the other two which may leave them not viable as a supplier.
from what the BBC & bernie were saying there are teams that have signed a document saying they WILL ALWAYS BE in F1 until at least 2020 - and as merc and ferrari are the only full works teams, it does leave the other engine manufacturers to come and go as they please (i'm looking at YOU HONDA!!!)
what i cannot fathom is why he (LH) hasnt resigned for Merc yet and states he wants to "get the title dealt with first"
Money
Merc don't want to pay him as much next time around, using Alonso as a lever - i.e. "We can take Alonso if you don't sign for less"
on the other side they need to keep Alonso available so they keep telling him he'll be in silver next year if LH doesn't re-sign.
So it all hinges on LH, unless McL give Alonso a time limit and force him to commit or otherwise.
Mr Horner you ol' dog you
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Merc don't want to pay him as much next time around, using Alonso as a lever - i.e. "We can take Alonso if you don't sign for less"on the other side they need to keep Alonso available so they keep telling him he'll be in silver next year if LH doesn't re-sign.
So it all hinges on LH, unless McL give Alonso a time limit and force him to commit or otherwise.
Merc win no matter what. If Nico wins though they can keep LH and equalise their wage bill. I bet Alonso aint going to be cheap. Why do people assume hes offering bargain basement? Hes leaving Ferrari not because hes being forced to.
Its true!
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11222355/Geri-Halliwell-engaged-to-Formula-One-team-boss-Christian-Horner.html ]Geri link[/url]
So presumably she'll be moving to MK and perhaps we'll see her up at Woburn?
I did occur to me listening to Button was that the contractual problem he has a Mclaren is not that he hasn't been offered a seat but that he won't accept it unless they can assure him the car will be better
Is Button average
he did win from last place didn't he. I think we all like drivers who do better in the wet
[url=Button] http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/jun/12/jenson-button-canadian-grand-prix [/url]
congrats Horner and Geri
least they havnt been splashing it all over the papers in and on/off/effects my driving cos i'm unprofessional LH styleeee
On a more serious note
Is Horner the next Bernie?
It was touted a while back, and RBR could be very much ready for a transition with Newey's new role and Vettel leaving...
He certainly has the intellect and i would suggest the silver tongue, given the Webber / Vettel relationship in the past - he's also well respected in the paddock and well known outside without being TOO well known or carrying any extra "dodgy baggage" (now dont be cruel everyone and say anything about Geri here!)
For me he'd be a better choice for sure than Falvio
and lets face it Bernie aint going to go on forever....
unless he is a cyborg...sent from the future to infiltrate F1 and bring it down from the inside
Geri:"...you mean like a robot..?"
Horner : "All right, listen. The Terminator's an infiltration unit: part man, part machine. Underneath, it's a hyper-alloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled. Fully armored; very tough. But outside, it's living human tissue: flesh, skin, hair, blood - grown for the cyborgs."
...
Bernie: "Geri Halliwell....?"
Geri: "Yes?"
Bernie: "Your terminated....."
respect webber for those last few sentences - rubens needs to admit this to himself too
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bkv3r
Yep, i have always liked Mark Webber. His honesty and true character is extremely refreshing in a world of smoke and mirrors.
Huge respect for Mark Webber here too, he was an extremely able racer and came across very well - even when he was upset about his perceived unequal treatment at RBR.
@back2b - thanks for that link, another Webber fan here too.
Mark Webber is a top bloke I can tell you that.
I was lucky enough to work with him in F1 and he punched well above his weight all the time. He's pretty modest about his talent, but he was in the top league for sure. Just didn't quite get the right breaks early enough in his career. His move to Williams was the breaking point really, made perfect sense at the time, but turned out to be such a disappointment for him. Red Bull was obviously a great and largely unexpected recovery, but perhaps just a bit too late in his F1 career. Still not a bad innings though compared to most!
He's pretty handy on a bike too - road & XC.
Mark webber
Woburn rider. Nothing else needs adding
I haven't been following closely but Caterham may race in AD, they've raised £1.9m via crowd sourcing (avg amount £400) which is quite impressive. Some cool items have been sold off, should have paid attention as I'd have a pair of drivers gloves etc
[url= https://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/ ]link[/url]
The crowdfunding just seems wrong. If a GP2 car can be built, run and be nearly as quick as a backmarker F1 car on a (relatively) tiny budget, why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?
why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?
Engines (sorry Power Units) have played a big part this year, they are very expensive. GP2 is essentially a one make series so no one spends any money developing the car as they are all the same
anyone catch the BBC's title deciders marathon on BBC3
jeez those 1980's cars looked awesome!!!!!!!!!!
sigh
Confirmed that Caterham are back for the last race...
[url] http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/11/14/caterham-return-abu-dhabi/ [/url]
jeez those 1980's cars looked awesome!!!!!!!!!!
They were - qualifying engines that lasted 3 laps!
Caterham will now be racing in Abu Dhabi. Although they have got to find another driver for one race as Ericsson has packed in with them. What happens next year though? Are they expecting the receive the 10th place payout by default as Marussia doesn't exist any more? That would be a massive help to them if it did happen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30055510
bernie's not interested in young generation.
great forward thinking bernie
where do you think we all got our love of f1 from....
[quote=northernmatt ]Caterham will now be racing in Abu Dhabi. Although they have got to find another driver for one race as Ericsson has packed in with them.
Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton...
F1 as a whole isn't interested in kids/teenagers not just Bernie.
My daughter has picked up her interest in F1 from me, but since she was 5 or 6 getting ANY decent and reasonably priced F1 related stuff for kids is nigh on impossible. Team kit sells for crazy prices.
You'd think they'd at least cash in with a range of cars (like Disney/Hotwheels Cars). I ended up buying Scalextric cars as 'cheap' models for her.
Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton...
Plus random, unknown female driver...
[url] http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/11/12/powell-ready-massive-step-handed-f1-debut-caterham/ [/url]
Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton...
You're quite right. What I should have said is, they now have to auction the drive off to the highest bidder.
Plus random, unknown female driver...
Exactly what the sport needs IMHO...for too long, women at races have only been there to wear a swimsuit and hold a number on a stick. It's great to see characters like Susie Wolff and Claire Williams helping to make a difference. The latter seems to be doing a top job.
dont forget monisha kaltenron at sauber.. peter sauber was confident of her abilities to run the team and gave her a stake.
The crowdfunding just seems wrong. If a GP2 car can be built, run and be nearly as quick as a backmarker F1 car on a (relatively) tiny budget, why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?
Part of the cost is flying all that kit and people round the world
Oh and as well as development eveything you make is a one off, or nealry
On a personal note unless you are much more of an engineer I think the term really bad is unreasonable. I expect being at the back in F1, on a budget is harder than it looks
What's to stop CVC stepping in and removing Ecclestone if they decided he was becoming a liability?
Darth Vader?
Mr Salmon-nothing on paper as CVC employ the squinty octaganerian. But I expect he's got a hold over each and every one of them so they're scared to be the one that fires him.
Maybe you're right, with some of the stuff he's been coming out with lately it's astonishing he's still there.
Agreed. He usually saves this sort of stuff for quiet times when f1 wouldn't otherwise be in the news.
[quote=ampthill ]On a personal note unless you are much more of an engineer I think the term really bad is unreasonable. I expect being at the back in F1, on a budget is harder than it looks
Indeed - there is a huge amount of effort involved in making a car which is fast enough to qualify to race. A GP2 car might not be much slower, but it's a quite important not much.
Running a production GP2 car is nothing like designing, developing and running your own F1 car. Leagues apart in cost and resources. A typical GP2 team might consist of around 20 people tops. F1 is 300+ people slaving away day and night.