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It's awful the whole thing, i watched the highlights and there were virtually none. Hardly any cars on the grid, 3rd placed car 45 seconds down, only top 7 ending on the same lap. But worse there is virtually no way of other teams catching up with Merc due to the daft token system. Add in dreary tracks in dull locations with half of the races being on Sky and it's a slow crash.
Unfortunately it is British engineering mostly on the line. Someone upstairs in F1 needs to get a grip on it and fast. Unlike though unfortunately :cry:.
dragon - F1 has always been thus (well, bits of thus anyway). Back in the day the MP4/4 lapped every car apart from the other MP4/4, so domination is nothing new. I don't recall the other teams moaning too much about it back then though, so maybe that's something that's changed.
I hear people saying they want F1 'fixed' but what does that mean? F1 needs to be the quickest thing around a track, and despite all the rule fiddling over the years it still is. I think people have some idealised view of what F1 has ever been and want to cherry pick the best bits of that to put together some pastiche series that takes the heroics of the 60s, the 'have a go' engineering of the 70s, the money of the 80s and the sound of the 90s and magically comes up with 30 cars racing wheel to wheel for 2 hours at 200mph.
So what can you do? Loosen the rules and the biggest budget (usually) wins. Restrict the budgets and the big teams walk. Make the tyres faster/more durable and we end up with the pit stop racing of the 90s. Oh, and while you're doing this to F1 you need to trickle it down through the entire FIA structure to ensure that GP2, GP3 etc aren't ending up quicker than F1.
Two things would need to change - first off the system for approving changes in F1 shouldn't be governed by unanimity or vetoes. The turkeys will never vote for Xmas. Second the control of the sport needs to stop chasing money and start ploughing it back into the sport. FOM should be a not for profit organisation run for the benefit of F1, rather than the benefit of FOM. But not even the short, squinty old turkey will vote for Xmas.
Dragon
Longterm Damon fan here. The DOUBLE champ Lapped everyone twice and 8 finishers from memory: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Australian_Grand_Prix
He beat sixtimes German (edit) winner that day too......
aye good old Damon Hill and Coulthard - they someone take the best car on the grid and manage to struggle to win races most of the season - apart from when everyone crashes out - the only person Hill and Coulthard need to look at when blaming someone for not winning more championships is simple - IN THE MIRROR...
You know how good Hill was at developing a car right? He was well known for this.
The car he and Senna climbed into was almost undriveable post ban on TC etc. So Hill was there when it was bad/ugly and helped make it good.
Then Bennetton was caught with TC software still on their car..
Coulthard had double the starts of Hill with half of Hills wins tally.
best car in the field in 1993 - he didnt win title
1994 - car was not that bad as you make out (they won the constructors title, senna took 3 effin consecutive poles at the start ), yet he only won races because schumi had been disqualied from overreaction of him overtaking hill on the warm up lap , - he still had to take it all the way to the wire for the famous "collision", which everyone remembers yet forget that hill should have had the title already had he not crashed , spun off / squandered many a point/podium/race win positions from the entire season (like monaco if i remember, germany etc)
1995 had the greatest and most technically advance car in F1 - won the title easily.
he had made it in F1 as the best in the world, a driver without equal, commanding the respect and admiration of everyone....
williams dumped him
he then got picked up by one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport,
not ferrari
not mclaren
but
ARROWS
nuff said really
He chose Arrows. Tom Walkinshaw sold it to him. I still remember that overtake on Schumacher in Hungary in a bad car...
😀
Damon was ace! He was the last of the gentleman racers, but he gave his all and was better than the best on a good day (Suzuka 1994, even Schumacher was incredulous). He knew how to get the best out of a car and in classic Brit style, he would sometimes punt the best car on the grid into the gravel when he suffered a bout of the Yips.
Coulthard was another. A superb driver when he got out of bed the right side, the lantern-jawed wonder was responsible for some epic maneuvers, for example attempting to pass Schumacher on the inside in France, 2000 with one hand on the wheel as he was gesticulating with the other. He was no stranger to the Watsons too, but that made him interesting to watch - will he win or will he stuff it into the pit lane wall?
I strongly suspect that Maldonado is an asset for Lotus because their sponsors are guaranteed air time in the most dramatic fashion. He may be a bit of a loose cannon, but he's self deprecating to a fault.
Damon was ace! He was the last of the gentleman racers,
I'd still take the "chav" from stevenage any day.
ttempting to pass Schumacher on the inside in France, 2000 with one hand on the wheel as he was gesticulating with the other.
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Brilliant stuff, I agree 😀
best car in the field in 1993 - he didnt win title...
First full season in F1, three wins and third overall behind his 4 x times World Champion team mate and a three times World Champion.
1994 - car was not that bad as you make out (they won the constructors title, senna took 3 effin consecutive poles at the start )...
And never finished a race in it
... yet he only won races because schumi had been disqualied from overreaction of him overtaking hill on the warm up lap...
He won two races when Schumi was disqualified, once for breaking the rules for driving etiquette, once for breaking the rules with a technical infringement, two when Schumi was sidelined for the aforementioned technical infringement and another two in fair combat. So six races in total, in his second full season.
he still had to take it all the way to the wire for the famous "collision", which everyone remembers yet forget that hill should have had the title already had he not crashed , spun off / squandered many a point/podium/race win positions from the entire season (like monaco if i remember, germany etc)
Damon took it "all the way to the wire" in a season where his team mate was killed (which meant he had to pick up the baton and lead the team in unimaginably testing circumstances - he scored a point in the very race Senna died, for goodness' sake) in a car that was widely acknowledged as tricky to set up and race. You can say Hill should already have wrapped up the title - I might argue Schumi should have already wrapped up the title, but, you know, passing cars on the warm up lap, driving an illegal car, all that good stuff.
1995 had the greatest and most technically advance car in F1 - won the title easily.
Schumi was champion in '95.
Without equal? The number of drivers you could say that about is far smaller than the number of drivers who've been world champion. Oh, but hang on, I see -he had made it in F1 as the best in the world, a driver without equal, commanding the respect and admiration of everyone....
Ah, humorous cynicism, very good. Williams are not particularly sentimental about drivers (Piquet, Mansell and Prost all won World Driver's Championships for the team and did not stay to defend them), had Villeneuve under contract and had signed Frentzen for '97 long before Damon sealed the title - Frentzen had been a team mate of Schumi's at the Sauber Mercedes WSC squad, and had been considered superior to him, although that promise was ultimately never fulfilled.williams dumped him
he then got picked up by one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport,
not ferrari
not mclaren
but
ARROWSnuff said really
If you didn't know who Tom Walkinshaw was or what his teams had achieved in motor racing, I can understand why you'd come across as so ill-informed. Nuff, as you say, said.
apologies for the mistype i missed a year, thinking 95 was 96
i noticed you failed to mention / desccribe the 95 season - that was a disaster of a season for Hill again with numerous crashes, mistakes just like coulthard again in the williams,
"1996 had the greatest and most technically advance car in F1 - won the title easily"
My mate of 20yrs+ ribbed me for years over my choices of drivers to follow in F1 - Hill, JPM (stop eating burgers and drive!), MikaH (but I was late to the party with Mika) and finally Lewis.
I just couldn't get my head into Schu's style/or how he did things. Damon, for me came to the sport way too late. 32 wasn't it? Schu was 22. Damon was already in the twilight of his talent then- best potential gone?
If Graham hadn't have passed away prematurely would we have seen Hill in F1 in the 80's? What would have happened?
Sorry I'm a fan.
forgive me honda but you've stated your not supplying customer engines just yet
That would be a hard sell; who'd have them at the moment?
And agree with the Damon fans. A much underrated driver who knew his craft and was not given the opportunity to hone it at the optimum age.
Unlike these days when children are parachuted in to F1. Barmy
I know- imagine Lewis starting his F1 career in two years time.
anyway enuff of this trolling,
merc looking impressive in testing - has Ferrari taken a step back,
everyone will be talking about boring season once more and time for mega rule changes.....
..and so the f1 cycle continues..
will this be the state of our posts for each race to come i wonder?
ps. @hora for me
mansell, rosberg, all ferrari drivers except irvine and rubens, alesi, herbert, and ferrari-schumi when he returned to merc too.
anyone want to take a bet on the first wet race of the season and who will win it?
back2basics -
i noticed you failed to mention / desccribe the 95 season
I haven't brought up any season, I've just been correcting your mistakes.
... ps. @hora for me
mansell...
Aaaaa, NOW I understand.
[i]I hear people saying they want F1 'fixed' but what does that mean?[/i]
For me a good place to start would be...
Tyres, they're shocking, either introduce some competition to Perilli or sort out the degradation issue (yes I know that's what Bernie wants)
Fuel management: F1 should be flat out 100% of the time, the fact that Mercedes can generally lap a second faster when it suits them reveals that drivers are having to manage fuel, and not driving to the limits.
Speed: The cars are going round too slow.
Looks: Yes I know it's subjective, but the current cars are shit looking.
Aerodynamics: That Hamilton was unable to close on Vettel or run closer than a second behind him is just stupid, the fact that they needed to introduce an artificial overtaking aid is even more stupider.
...Would go someway to fixing the issues
Its interesting the mirror of f1 and motogp where the haves and have nots are clear. One thing is Dorna does support the lower teams. There is still the problem of factory v customer teams.
Squinty eyes needs to stop making a show and start making a sport that generates interest.
Why do footie fans head off to watch a game and eat dodgy pies and sausage rolls? Its the expectation that their team might win and their presence might make a difference. The drivers are so detached from the fans, show us more of the teams ( the hard working guys at the factory and in the pits). I want to hear from Jason the jack man. If Kimi wont talk to the press how about the chef from ferrari?
There is a team in F1 !
F1 should be flat out 100% of the time...
I do wonder whether that's ever been the case? There's always been something you have to manage - I've never been a fan of refuelling but I don't mind them having to look after fuel and tyres.
F1 strategy group headed by bobby fernley makes a lot of noise about cost cap. This is the same team that moaned about Manor coming into the new season. Seems ironic he bases his cost cap points on keeping 6 teams going when he'd ideally wanted 5 teams and more money at the beginning of the season.
There are the racers and the moaners .. karma is coming for you Fernley.
I must admit I find the fuel management/DRS system plain stupid.
Cars are racing round in circles after being flown round the world every two weeks burning tbousands of gallons of aviation fuel into the atmosphere.
Jesus its like a large scale fraud of M&S 'plan A because there is no plan b' bollocks (M&S seem to use the most packaging for their products)
"show us more of the teams ( the hard working guys at the factory and in the pits). "
😀
F1 should be flat out 100% of the time...
During the Bridgestone/Refuelling era F1 was pretty much flat-out. And some of the races where very dull indeed.
You need something that adds an element of randomness, and with the drive to make engines more reliable that option has been taken away.
[quote=nickc ]Fuel management: F1 should be flat out 100% of the time, the fact that Mercedes can generally lap a second faster when it suits them reveals that drivers are having to manage fuel, and not driving to the limits.
I thought the Mercs weren't actually limited by total fuel allowance, hence that is nothing to do with them backing off (and if it was, it would be far more sensible to drive a little faster all the time and employ lift and coast etc. rather than burning lots in a single lap blast).
Looks: Yes I know it's subjective, but the current cars are shit looking.
Maybe not as pretty as the classics, but we have now seen what shit cars look like, and it's not this year's ones!
Aerodynamics: That Hamilton was unable to close on Vettel or run closer than a second behind him is just stupid, the fact that they needed to introduce an artificial overtaking aid is even more stupider.
Which is indeed a problem. Has been a problem in general - and more particularly at Barcelona - ever since aero downforce was introduced. The trouble is, solving that one is likely to make the cars slower, which presumably isn't what you want? In any case it's certainly not an issue at most of the circuits - plenty of overtaking even without the use of DRS recently.
[quote=the-muffin-man ]You need something that adds an element of randomness
I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?
Tyres:
I'm pretty sure Pirelli could easily make tyres that survive a race distance, but it would be bloody boring if they did. Tyre deg and how teams adapt to it, having driver on different strategies adds to the racing rather than detracts from it.
Speed:
Current F1 cars are only a couple of second slower than the 3.5 litre V10s which hold the lap records.
Aero:
Agree this is an issue, the answer could be more downforce generated by ground effect. Front wings with less elements but ran closer to the ground, larger rear diffuser (still without any of the blown diffuser nonsense) would help the cars run closer without them losing too much downforce and therefore lap time.
Overtaking:
In a race where the cars start in order from fastest at the front to slowest at the back overtaking doesn't logically follow!
Personally I don't have an issue with DRS it works well to get cars which are out of position back up the field, if cars are evenly matched than it can make for some fun battles as they pass and re-pass each other. Get shot of tracks where its very difficult to overtake!
Cant the FIA just add weight to handicap the faster cars like in touring cars to even the field up a bit ?
Then you get a big strategic push to be in a promising position with the minimum weight penalty heading into the final rounds, and the FIA (like us all) want to just see everyone going for the win week in week out.
With regards to aero, I know this has been brought up before, but for me I think the less aero the better. I know the comparison has been made that the best races are wet races where mechanical grip is massively cut, but I also suspect that the resulting chop in aero plays a big part. Big tyres, no wings, that's what I'd vote for.
Bring back these:
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That (pre-wings and Gold Leaf sponsorship) is my favourite racing car ever (except maybe the 917).
I did like the first silly tall rear wing too. Most beautiful f1 car ever.
And Chapman's genius at a level that the rules forbid even now - have the wings apply downforce to the wheels directly through the stub axles, so you can set the chassis up to handle, rather than manage downforce. Dude was a twisted genius. 🙂
After the first race, the grid goes in reverse championship order. Points all down the field.
At least you'd know that the championship winner worked for it, but also it would ask questions of when was the right time to attack. Now it's always as soon as possible because the cars at the front are about to disappear.
nothing out of the big F1 meeting yesterday, apart from "customer cars" on the horizon,
another band-aid plaster over the issues, let the bigger teams get bigger and other teams die and becomes 'B' teams.
eg:
$125million gets your a year old ferrari chassis + powertrain + gearbox for 1 season - small print "you cannot ever overtake A team"
please sign here.
F1 is great again.
That small print already exists to some degree...
Refuelling's back for 2017 - wish I hadn't mentioned it now. 🙁
😡
Until the first pit-lane fire....
Load of old bollix if you ask me.
What's needed is a cheaper power unit, better tyres, less reliance on paying drivers, a standardised aero package (ie wings are FIA standard for all teams), something that sounds like a 1995 Ferrari V12 or a 2001 Williams BMW and drivers who speak their minds and get pissed a lot.
Oh and "Sex - The Breakfast of Champions" to become the official McLaren team motto.
And refuelling was bollix in 2008 and is bollix now.
I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?
That would be brilliant.
I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?
Even better would be allowing the teams to fit 'Wacky Races' style add-ons - oil-slicks, smoke screens, nails dropped, tyre cutters, detour signs...!
Indy, but... 😯
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motorsport/32751484
Just show what can happen when aero goes wrong
I've never been a fan of F1 as a fuel consumption event. Bring back V12s, loads of fuel, free tyres and reduce aero.