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1000 mile update on the Model Y RWD. Averaging 4.3 mpkwh (233wh/mile) on a variety of motorway and town driving, including a 340 mile motorway round trip to Nottingham.
It may not be the prettiest car on the road, but that slippery shape really helps with efficiency on the higher speed runs.
Helps with the warmer temperatures too, of course.
*It may not be the prettiest car on the road*
Agreed.
Is the Tesla Model 3 the best value Electric Car, I friend who is a fleet manager advised they are starting to recommend to all company drivers. Also he advised there charging network is the cheapest, I Tesla was more expensive than most.
Wether or not it's the best value depends on what you do with it. Our Ioniq Electric was cheaper and is significantly more efficient, but I have to pay 73p per kWh at public chargers. However, I use public chargers about 3x a year so that's not a significant factor for us. If you're running up and down the motorway every week, then yes. However, if you were to do that, you'd be paying less than the 73p I pay probably since you'd be subscribing to something. But probably more than 44p.
Anyone got a Cupra Born or EV6 GT?
Choose a New lease time. The Cupra is very cheap, EV6 a bit less than a tesla.
I'll go and sit in some but always useful to hear people's experiences. 👍
We’ve just bought another i3. A 42kWh (actually 37kWh) version to replace our previous 33kWh (27kWh) REX version. We’re easily getting 180-190miles of range from it.
Plenty of space in the rear. They’re quite tardis like so long as you don’t have large amounts of specifically shaped luggage.
Anyone got a Cupra Born or EV6 GT?
Choose a New lease time. The Cupra is very cheap, EV6 a bit less than a tesla.
Assume your talking about the EV6 GT line rather than the 577bhp GT
One of my work colleagues has the GT line and it’s a cracking car. IMHO the KIA/Hyundai e-GMP platform is currently the best balance out there. Thats why I picked one for myself. The EV6 is a fair bit larger than my Genesis but not anywhere near as nice.
We also have a fleet of Borns which are cracking little cars, they are the car the VW ID3 should have been, but not in the same league as the EV6.
If I had wanted a small car Id probably have chosen the Born
EV second hand prices seem to have tumbled and I'm in the market potentially for a replacement to my 2015 Passat diesel.
What can I get for around 12k that can transport two bikes (one of them an ebike so has to go in the boot or a towbar rack) and can do at least a trip to Leeds and back without charging?
Edit: from Newcastle upon Tyne 🙂
Anyone got a Cupra Born or EV6 GT?
I’ve got an EV6 GT Line S and love it. Had it since late September last year and no issues so far.
It’s really nice to drive; comfortable, spacious, smooth and has all the toys.
Seat and steering wheel heating was great over winter and run off the 12V battery so have no negative impact on range.
Was getting around 235 miles from a full charge over winter but as the weather temperature is increasing so is the car’s range. Now up to 275 miles.
Ohme charger and Intelligent Octopus Go tariff means 7.5p/kWh to charge overnight so cheap enough to run.
@pictonroad - drop me a DM if you have any questions.
and can do at least a trip to Leeds and back without charging?
I think that'll depend on where you live 🙂
Seat and steering wheel heating was great over winter and run off the 12V battery so have no negative impact on range.
Everything runs off the main battery when the car is switched on. However, heated seats and steering wheel use very little power in general, less than heating the air in the whole car.
What can I get for around 12k that can transport two bikes (one of them an ebike so has to go in the boot or a towbar rack) and can do at least a trip to Leeds and back without charging?
Well I would put two bikes in the back of my Ioniq with the seats down, but that seems to not be fashionable these days. However, I wouldn't be put off by having to stop to charge on a long trip. If it's only just outside your range you only need a quick top up, it's really nothing. In our Leaf the trip to my parents was just outside the winter range, so we got our coffee for the return trip at a place with a charger and by the time we'd gone in and bought drinks and snacks we had enough to get home.
You’re correct, molgrips. My mistake. I’m sure I read somewhere a while ago that they were fed from the 12V battery but have just checked and it is indeed the main battery that powers them.
"I think that’ll depend on where you live"
D'oh! Newcastle upon Tyne.
Bikes in the back isn't a massive issue until they're covered in mud and grime so would prefer if rear seats folded right down enough to lie a bike down fully (with the front wheel taken out).
I’m sure I read somewhere a while ago that they were fed from the 12V battery but have just checked and it indeed the main battery that powers them.
EVs have a battery that's 600V or 800V or whatever. This feeds an inverter to convert it into AC which is used for the motor, but it's also fed into a transformer that steps it down to 12V because all the car's internal electronics and electrics will be 12V. They are connected to the battery as well but that's being charged from the 12v supply from the inverter as well.
Newcastle to Leeds is 100 miles, so that's just outside the range of something like an Ioniq EV but you'd only need a very quick top up at any point on the route. You can do a search on Autotrader for any make/model then you select fuel type electric and range 200 miles+
What can I get for around 12k that can transport two bikes (one of them an ebike so has to go in the boot or a towbar rack) and can do at least a trip to Leeds and back without charging?
Probably an MG ZS or an MG5. I’d be looking to stretch the budget slightly and try and pick up a Kia e-Niro.
There are e-Niros with the bigger battery for that price but with big miles. However, that shouldn't be an issue...
What would be considered 'big miles' for an EV? There seems to be plenty of ioniq for under 12k with around 85,000 miles on them, is that going to have resulted in a significant loss of battery capacity?
I've folk coming to view my car and campervan this weekend so if all goes to plan, will be able to pull the trigger on the RWD model Y Mrs Davy90 has decided we're having...
Towbar is an extra grand for a bike carrier, roof rack a bit less... I've got a 4 bike tow bar carrier and a 4 bike roof bar set up already so in theory just need the means to attach to the vehicle.
Anyone any experience of what happens to range with either set up, we will on occasion be carting at least 2 bikes and 4 adult sized occupants across France at some point... Occasionally 4 bikes over less distance...
Dunno about roof bars, though suspect they’ll destroy the range. I use a towball rack on my i4 and it has negligible impact on range with a large FS ebike on it. Maybe takes it from 4.0 to 3.8 m/kw type reduction.
Just my experience, but 2 x bike on the roof of my i4 on a mixed A / B / Dual Carriageway route seem to reduce the efficiency hence range by about 25% ish.
On my company car scheme I basically couldn’t have a towbar, but even so it would have cost circa £1k which buys a heck of a lot of electricity, but does mean you’ll need to stop to charge more frequently.
@pictonroad I have had a Cupra Born for about a month now and 1,000km, posted a picture a few pages back. Feel free to ask any specific questions. I know the infotainment gets some stick but I have to say it’s not been an issue for me (I am coming from a SEAT Ateca so was familiar with it beforehand). I have the 58kw version and never bothered with the Boost and have to say acceleration is not something I have found wanting! The 77kw version only has 2 rear seats which was a no go for me. I am in Ireland so specs are a bit different to uk with mine probably on a per with the uk V2 for kit. I like that the Born looks a bit sporty and not like an EV. I get 5.5 to 6.5km per KW on my commute of about 80km return at 100kmph with a little bit of town driving at each end. Did a drive at 80kmph on country roads to the trail centre and got a whopping 8km per kw! The car was a great deal and came with servicing which includes a set of tyres. I have not really bothered with the app as it doesn’t do much and just confuses me/the OHME charger so I just charge at home and use the OHME app rather than the car/app. The only thing I miss is the car does not take roof bars so the bike goes inside now, other than that I can’t really fault it so far.
I’ve got a 4 bike tow bar carrier and a 4 bike roof bar set up already so in theory just need the means to attach to the vehicle.
Roofbars scare me a little on the Teslas because of the glass roof. They have to be mounted very carefully in the correct position. I’ve heard people mention cracked roofs on various Tesla forums (fora?).
Im currently in a quandary as I also generally carry bikes on the roof if it’s not just me in the car.
“ On my company car scheme I basically couldn’t have a towbar, but even so it would have cost circa £1k which buys a heck of a lot of electricity,”
Very much agree, I only went for the towbar as I have, amongst other bikes, 2 e-bikes, so lifting onto roof carriers is a crippling experience 😛
What would be considered ‘big miles’ for an EV? There seems to be plenty of ioniq for under 12k with around 85,000 miles on them, is that going to have resulted in a significant loss of battery capacity?
It is my theory that EVs will last much longer than ICEs because there's only one moving part in the engine. If the battery is well cared for they should last for huge miles. Hyundai put a lot of engineering into this; in the Ioniq Electric they are liquid cooled and heated so they are always in the optimum temperature range for durability. Most cars don't report the battery state of health to the user, you need an OBD dongle to see it, but there is some uncertainty as to what the numbers actually mean and different manufacturers report differently. All EVs seem to have some 'headroom' to preserve battery longevity, so 100% charge indicated on the dash is not really 100%, it's more like 90%. So if you've lost 9% and your battery is at 91% health, you'll still see the same range indicated on the dash. Nissan seem to report the true capacity via OBD (but usable capacity on the dash) so people looking at OBD data will see battery capacity loss in the first year (which is normal). However, Hyundai may be reporting the usable capacity via OBD, we're not really sure. In any case, people who do use OBD to monitor battery health are reporting basically no degradation after middle mileages like 60-70k and I'm sure I read someone with 1% at 300k. The one we just bought has 70k on it, and it's indistinguishable from a new car inside and whilst driving. The range on the dash is currently 186 miles compared to the official figure of 193. We previously leased one from new, and these are the same numbers we would see at this time of year doing the same driving. This particular car has crappy E rated tyres on the front too, so I would expect that number to be higher on A rated tyres like the ones it came with.
In short, I put my money where my mouth is and it (so far) seems to be paying off. I'm glad I have leather seats since I reckon seat wear is probably the thing that is most likely to age this car.
Anyone any experience of what happens to range with either set up, we will on occasion be carting at least 2 bikes and 4 adult sized occupants across France at some point
Having 4 people in our car makes very little difference to the efficiency numbers. I haven't put bikes on the roof of an EV, but I do plan to get an EV to tow a caravan with one day. That will likely reduce range to 100-120 miles, and I will have to stop a lot on a long trip. But the point for me is that's only once or if I'm lucky twice a year, and it'll still work. I'll happily sacrifice 6hrs a year for the benefits the rest of the time. EVs are the way cars should be, diesel seems absolutely rubbish by comparison.
I'd echo the Kia ev6 comments above regarding range. I'd also add I use the 3 pin plug outlet regularly too, the washer/dryer runs off it multiple times per week. Charge overnight at 7.5p, use during peak rate hours. It's a useful feature that doesn't seem as common on other cars, maybe the MG's have it.
Anyone any experience of what happens to range with either set up, we will on occasion be carting at least 2 bikes and 4 adult sized occupants across France at some point… Occasionally 4 bikes over less distance…
I pretty much have my roof rack on the car all the time... Glass roof polestar, but the rack sits on the metal edges of the roof.
Prob takes about 10% off range without bikes on, and a lot more WITH!
But... It's a lot cheaper than the tow ball alternative...
DrP
We just did our first family trip abroad in the MG5 to Holland. Thought the charging infrastructure there was so much better than here, banks of fast chargers at most services (loads even had 2 areas from different suppliers) which were lot more frequently located that UK services. Most places we visited, public car parks even the most remote villages had public chargers (albeit slow). Most worked with the electroverse app and most of the pricing was half or at least a third cheaper than here, and Dutch roads are just pleasure to drive!
That’s good to hear about Holland having decent charging.
Planning a trip to Dunrell hopefully at end of May and will be taking the new Buzz that’s due in a week or two.
@revs1972 what was your waiting time like for the Buzz? I test drove one, it was my preferred choice but was told to expect an 18 month wait (this was last December)
@ianc "Very much agree, I only went for the towbar as I have, amongst other bikes, 2 e-bikes, so lifting onto roof carriers is a crippling experience"
What roof carrier are you using for ebikes? I have struggled to find one suitable.
^^^ sorry, my post was maybe unclear, I am using a towbar carrier because I have a couple of e-bikes along with regular ones.
I ended up buying a pre-registered Style(26-Jan-24) that has 10 miles on the clock. They are giving me the full 3 year warranty on it. It’s lime yellow which wasn’t my first colour choice , but I can live with it for the £11k saving . It’s fully loaded with all the options bar towbar
Should pick up end of next week
Also , there are quite a few unregistered ones in the system. Contact your local VW van centre rather than the car places as they seem to offer more.
I expect they are all accessing the same stock list though
Very nice revs, you’ll have to upload some pics when you get it.
I was getting my EV through my salary sacrifice scheme so was limited to new only. Got the Q4 but really wanted the Buzz.
Will do. Lucky for me I have free rein to buy what I want. I don’t think the missus is going to like the colour “choice” much though 😂
Oh well , she can always catch the bus instead 😎
What's the consensus on EV Vauxhall stuff? This seems a tempting price
https://leasing.com/independent-brokers/leasing-options-limited/vauxhall/astra/L0102610000012948977/
Re Mileage. We bought our Tesla Model s with about 85,000 on it as a trial initially to see if we could live with it ( figured buying a cheap high mileage one there would be less depreciation if we didn’t like it).
2.5 years later he has hit 130,000 and going strong. Not seen any signs of dip in range over that time. We almost exclusively charge at home but he has done a couple of long trips which were fine. Yes took longer than a ICE car but not a big issue.
Battery warranty runs out next year and u suppose it’s a risk to carry on but given prices have dropped I don’t see any reason to get rid. Heard of taxis going to 250,000 easily.
@airvent Bjorn tests an older 28kWh Ioniq with 100k miles on it:
He says 7% degradation which he says is very impressive. Worth remembering that degradation is not lineaer, so it probably lost that much in the first couple of years.
That doesn't tell us a lot. Under what conditions were those results achieved? What kind of batteries? etc etc.
I found a study based on cars: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last
These are based on Recurrent's customer base of about 15,000 drivers - they seem to be a service that does health checks on EVs in the USA, not sure under what conditions they got this data.
Covered just over 100 miles in the Corsa e yesterday. Mixed roads from minor and hilly to 70mph on the motorway. Car suggested 4kwh/mile. Which would have been much higher if I had avoided the motorway.
If I'm going further than that I'll aim skip the motorways if possible.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_gb/GUID-A6D6CF75-C9CA-4140-97FA-341E27E3B4D8.html
I saw a page or two back that someone was looking at a Model Y and talking about a 4 bike rack.
It's one of the models we've looked at in the past and they might find this useful as regards hitch weight limits and centre of gravity restrictions. I reckon our 4 bike rack would fail.
4 miles per kWh isn't bad - also it was a bit windy yesterday down here, not sure about where your trip was.
My observations agree with the links Edukator provided. 2015 (sold) Leaf with 177000 km and 11 of the 12 battery health bars remaining. Mostly charge at home , but some fast charging , especially in the winter (heater on and I like to go skiing)
Glasgow to Aberdeen and back this week in an eNiro this week. 4.3 miles/kWh on the way out, 65 on the speedo (~60 in actuality as it over reads by ~10%), 2.7 miles/kWh on the way back, 75 on the speedo. Had to slow down about 20 miles out on the way back for fear of not making it home. Think I'll stick to 60 in the future...
4 miles per kWh isn’t bad
agreed, however....
Car suggested 4kwh/mile
maybe not so !
4 miles per kWh isn’t bad – also it was a bit windy yesterday down here, not sure about where your trip was.
Over the west Pennine Moors then motorway + fast A road from Blackburn to Fleetwood.
What’s the consensus on EV Vauxhall stuff? This seems a tempting price
no idea if its good, but that list price means you'll be paying a chunk of extra tax as of next year (£410 extra I think) as the current excemption for expensive vehicles is due to expire - so a total of £600 a year tax if nothing changes. Not necessarily a deal-breaker but worth considering
edit : the basic tax rate (£190) is applicable to all cars registered recently, I'm not sure whether the additional £410 is applied to a 2024 car or only to cars registered after april 2025..
Usually the lease company pays all road tax, but yes good point none the less.
Update on Volvo EX30 test drive. Nice car, a very nice car in fact. There were plenty of options to put short cuts on the control screen, which was my biggest worry, and it felt like a very well put together car. But.....it's too small, the boot is not big enough for my wife's needs, and rear leg room isn't going to cope with our son who is 6'2" and counting. But the biggest thing for us was the dealership offering a "cracking deal" and in truth they appeared to make up some BS about a deal on some stock cars that were no longer available.
Yeah I liked it until I saw the review by that woman who is pretty small and she could barely fit in the back with the seat in her own driving position. Looks like old Fiesta levels of legroom in the back.
"edit : the basic tax rate (£190) is applicable to all cars registered recently, I’m not sure whether the additional £410 is applied to a 2024 car or only to cars registered after april 2025.."
Basic rate will apply from April 2025 to anything registered post March 2017. Luxury tax of £410 for vehicles over £40k does also start in 2025, but only for vehicles registered after March 2025.
The EX30 would be fine for me, 99% of the time 1 or 2 in the car. Does seem to have quite a long bonnet for a small car though.
Model Y RWD in bog standard spec ordered, delivery end of May allegedly... Next stage of procuring home charger, and changing tariff to commence. Thinking to go with EDF EV tariff as currently EDF customer on quarterly bill so pretty much instant change.
The office has 7kw chargers...are those ok to use to charge to 100% instead of the recommended 80%?
I'm heading in tomorrow and have a charge space so figure a full charge would be sensible if the first 4 hours are free...I doubt I'll get to 100% but I will get over 80%.
Am I right in thinking the fast chargers are the things that aren't brilliant for regular 100% charges and the 7kw chargers are ok as they aren't fast fast?
There's nothing wrong with rapid charging to 100%, it just slows down a lot so it's not necessarily time efficient on a long trip; it's also very bad etiquette if there might be others waiting to use the charger because you're only doing 10kW when they are in a hurry and could be charging at 200.
Fast (7kW) charging to 100% barely slows down at all. There's no issue with charging to 100%, but leaving the car at 100% for long periods (many days or weeks) does degrade the battery slightly.
I charge to 80% as a rule to avoid this, but if I know I'm going on a long trip I set off with 100%. If you are charging at work you can schedule it to 100% if you are going to be leaving soon after, no issues.
I suspect it'll be at almost 90% after the 4 free hours tomorrow...I'm happy to go to 100% each charge as I tend to drive away 3 hours later.
Car keeps suggesting charging to 80 but happy to go to 100 each time with a 7kw chargers, ta.
Blimey!
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/renault-repair-zoe-heater-car#comment-167258640
More fool the owner for not getting it sorted under warranty, but still!
The journo is saying buyer beware of 5yr old Zoe's, though acutely aware that two anecdotes do not make a trend. Any Zoe owners on here know any better?
Zoé owner, my second, still not five years old though. I have it dealer serviced which is cheap and because in France at least the cost of repairs tends to be negotiable depending on the age and mileage of the car if it's been dealer serviced throughout. Just mention you've got legal cover on the insurance policy and they'll come up with a sensible split of costs rather than fight an expensive legal battle they stand to lose.
stingmered
Blimey!https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/apr/17/renault-repair-zoe-heater-car#comment-167258640
More fool the owner for not getting it sorted under warranty, but still!
The journo is saying buyer beware of 5yr old Zoe’s, though acutely aware that two anecdotes do not make a trend. Any Zoe owners on here know any better?
That is pretty poor by Renault, in what happened with the failure of their dealer to initially diagnose the fault due to 'lack of the correct software' (assuming the writer is truthful), then not knowing/being arsed to supply a list of which of their dealers had the correct battery hoist, and then their subsequent response to the article.
Would be interesting to see the breakdown of that £9K quote as well.
The general sentiment seems to be that Zoes are not particularly reliable cars.
General rule of thumb is don't pay more for a French car than what you happen to have in your pocket
We have been looking at used electric cars. We have narrowed it down to 2 near us, one is 4 years old Pug 2008 with 68000 miles on the clock, the other is a 3 years old Corsa, with 19000 on the clock.
Will do about 12000 a year.
Both are identical in terms of battery and drive, the Corsa costs a bit more at £13000, Vs the 2008 at just sub £12000. The 2008 is a bit bigger and nicer inside.
Should the 50k extra miles put us off?
What’s the battery warranty on both cars?
Both to 8 years.
EDIT: Or 100000 miles. That might be the clincher...
I’d take the Vauxhall - longer warranty, battery has had less charge cycles going through it. Hopefully less chance of degradation.
I recently bought an EV with 73k on it, because I have confidence that they will last a long time. However, that's a big difference in miles for only a grand. But I would factor in how much I like either car.
One reason I like Hyundai
Impressive amount of kit and engineering on what is seen as a low end EV.
It's an acceptable word for an American to use.
We took the plunge and bought a 3yo Peugeot e-2008 with 20000 miles on it. Now the charger install shenannigans can begin...
I'm looking forward to a trip out in the Corsa e tomorrow. Shame it won't go dark so the matrix headlights won't get ignited 😭😉
Getting quotes for a home charger install, apparently the Tesla wall box needs it's own chunky consumer unit and it's a bit tight in our downstairs loo. Other units have been recommended as they need less space for connecting.
I've done a bit of googling and see that Tesla's will charge from non Tesla installs with an adapter, but there may be issues with charge rates.
One of the big factors in the Tesla decision was the simplicity and ease of use, I'd prefer not to faff with multiple apps.. Mrs Davy90 is apple and I'm android which has also caused issues in the past.
Waiting for a response from the installer, in the interim, any real world experience out there?
Which Tesla have you got davy90?
I'm pretty certain you've misunderstood about needing an adapter with a 3rd party home charger. Why would they install a new home charger with the wrong connector, requiring you to use an adapter?
Model Y RWD, turns up next month..
Ok. Model Y does not require any adapters for home chargers or public chargers, whether Tesla or other.
>> Why would they install a new home charger with the wrong connector, requiring you to use an adapter?
It’s not that. The Tesla wall connector doesn’t have PEN fault protection, so requires an additional device to cut the power if there’s a fault on the supply combined earth and neutral (worst case is that the metal body of the car becomes energised at 230v relative to ground).
They’re a bit of a bodge in how they work, to be honest, but are needed to satisfy the law. Other chargers like the Zappi etc have the protection built in.
Some installers will fit the mini consumer unit inside the meter box, but Fusebox make a very discreet IP65 unit in dark grey which I’d happily have on the wall. Personal preference would be to have the car supplied directly from the main supply via Henley blocks instead of going via the house consumer unit.