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Anyway, my anecdotal observation on shared use paths is that wearing a bright checked shirt elicits more positive greetings etc than the same bike ridden in Lycra or just mountain bike gear.
This does add to the nuance of what "hi vis" actually entails. the article and most commenters have assumed its a low cost loose polyester luminous green vest added over your outfit.
But you can acheive high visibilty with a number of outfits.Just wearing colours can be good in daytime. Does anyone have one of those reflective white coats for commuting? They look ace for a mud free environment.
My perception (and remeber this is coming from a cyclist) is that:
flappy hi vis vest and no helmet - former drunk driver on his way to labour on a building site. possibly pissed, unlikely to follow the highway code. bike in poor state of repair so unlikely to brake or turn correctly.
flappy hi vis vest and helmet - worlds most boring man approaching. The sort of person who can engage you in an hour long one way conversation about the longevity of 7 vs 8 speed chains based on their extensive research. Acutely aware of the highway code (and can even quote the clauses) but with no common sense, will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carrigeway with a perfect hand signal.
But to add to that, as a cyclist I (and presumably all of us) can spot a good cyclist just by watching them ride. Ok that doesnt determine if they are going to follow the rules or suddenly U-turn and bunnyhop a kerb, but we can see that they are competent and able to ride in control right?
Thats why it really grates when you see an actor who very clearly can't on TV.
will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carrigeway with a perfect hand signal.
Depends if there's a viable alternative
Depends if there’s a viable alternative
fair enough comment.
how much of a detour would you take to avoid doing such a thing?
this isn't a "we should know our place and stay in the left gutter" its a "I'm aware of how drivers arelikely to react (or not react) and will take steps for my own safety"
I have read somewhere (can't remember where or how reliable) that the best performing piece of safety equipment for a cyclist to make motorists keep their distance is simply a big high-vis sticker with the camera symbol. No actual camera necessary.
im not convinced by that – my bike, and I, will make significant damage to the bodywork of any car I hit. Even a glancing blow from a pedal / bar-end or taking a wing mirror off probably costs more to fix than the fine you alluded to m/cycle cops potentially imposing. Your sub conscious “calculation” doesn’t include the delay to the drivers journey which must be a factor even if it is only to get out and check no damage done.
I dunno, I can well believe it. Pretty convincing IMO.
Thinking about damage resulting from a collision or delay to the journey time (beyond "there's a cyclist in the way") is a conscious thing. Seeing a police vehicle and thinking "oh bugger, better be careful" is much more instinctive.
See also people hiding their phones when the police come past, not parking on school yellow zigzags, etc etc. High consequences are possible and half a second's thought will tell you this, but it's simply police rolling past in the opposite lane that make people scramble and hide (amusing to see, sometimes. In a sad sort of way).
I dunno, I can well believe it. Pretty convincing IMO.
Thinking about damage resulting from a collision or delay to the journey time (beyond “there’s a cyclist in the way”) is a conscious thing. Seeing a police vehicle and thinking “oh bugger, better be careful” is much more instinctive.
Oh, I wasn't disputing people behave better when they are aware (or think) the cops are around, it was that motorcycle couriers get more respect because they will cause more damage than a bike that I was questionning.
im not convinced by that – my bike, and I, will make significant damage to the bodywork of any car I hit.
I don't think most drivers really consider that with cyclists. They're so far outside their padded, air-conditioned padded armoured box that cyclists might as well be ants would be my take.
Nothing gets you space like 1) a kiddyback tandem with a baby seat on the back and "baby on board" sign, or 2) a recumbent tricycle with flag. I've never had a close pass on either, although the former was some time ago. The recumbent gets thumbs up from white van man, phone videos out of the passenger window and generally a lot of love. Probably a WTF is that response, but it's seen. Of course I ride with three rear lights too.
it was that motorcycle couriers get more respect because they will cause more damage than a bike that I was questionning.
All I can tell you - anecdotally obviously - is that riding a matt-blacked courier bike with panniers, with an apparent disregard for the rider's safety meant that most drivers tried quite hard to get out of your way. I was young and indestructible and quite stupid at the time, but also very good at riding bikes/reading the road, which is what happens when you ride a bike eight hours a day, five days a week. My control group - me, not riding a courier bike - found drivers rather less amenable.
I guess some of that could have been down to the carefully-cultivated 'mad dog' despatch rider image that went with the times - it was a long time ago - but either way, I'd suggest the common factor was seeing the bike/rider as a tangible threat of some kind.
My point is that cyclists really aren't 'threatening' when you're sat in a metal box, so treating them with respect becomes a more discretionary thing, which relies on some sort of basic humanity and empathy, both things that seem to be left at home when some people get into their cars. And I guess the flip-side is that it's easier to be empathetic / sympathetic to someone who looks like a person rather than Lance Armstrong or Darth Vader.
The recumbent gets thumbs up from white van man, phone videos out of the passenger window and generally a lot of love. Probably a WTF is that response, but it’s seen. Of course I ride with three rear lights too.
Know someone with a KMX, who overheard a lady tell her son to keep out of the way of the man in the wheelchair... they probably think you are a war hero raising money for charity in your special bike...
All I can tell you – anecdotally obviously – is that riding a matt-blacked courier bike with panniers, ridden with an apparent disregard for the rider’s safety meant that most drivers tried quite hard to get out of your way.
Was it loud?
My point is that cyclists really aren’t ‘threatening’ when you’re sat in a metal box, so treating them with respect becomes a more discretionary thing, which relies on some sort of basic humanity and empathy, both things that seem to be left at home when some people get into their cars. And I guess the flip-side is that it’s easier to be empathetic / sympathetic to someone who looks like a person rather than Lance Armstrong or Darth Vader.
My suspicion is "we" are more tolerant of people who are using the roads for "work" or "commuting"* but feel that people who might be adding to the traffic whilst having fun are a problem. Caravans, Tourists, Cyclists, Motorbikes, Sportscars, perhaps even School runs...
* As most people think cycling to work is mad - clearly you can't be commuting on a bike; that makes you a weirdo who's doing it for fun.
“Schroeder’s cyclist.”
Schrödinger’s cyclist.
“Schroeder’s cyclist.”
Schrödinger’s cyclist
Dammit.
interesting - hi viz and lid on the motorcycle and some cars move over to let me by,others just hold their line. hi viz and lid on the mtb and nearly all cars move over to block me going past !
will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carriageway with a perfect hand signal.
I only really use the right turning hand signal, as left isnt needed as im forced to ride in the gutter for the most part.
And of course that other hand signal that shows displeasure to inconsiderate road users.
I only really use the right turning hand signal, as left isnt needed as im forced to ride in the gutter for the most part.
Primary approaching a junction?
(Wink emoji here)
My control group – me, not riding a courier bike – found drivers rather less amenable.
I guess some of that could have been down to the carefully-cultivated ‘mad dog’ despatch rider image that went with the times – it was a long time ago – but either way, I’d suggest the common factor was seeing the bike/rider as a tangible threat of some kind.
I would agree with that 100%. One of the scariest rides I ever did was when a friend asked me to ride a 125cc L/plated bike after he bought it - it was as if I was invisible. One of the skills of being a courier was definitely being able to intimidate other traffic.