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Oh, so we all have to agree on a book for the opinion to be valid…. Does that also count for music ? Art ? sculpture ? architecture ?
No, but you have to make a distinction between "I don't like it" and "it's rubbish".
I read them, 2 of them. I wish i hadn’t bothered… they were IMO absolutely terrible, mixed up, convoluted and absolute rubbish
Why would you read a second if you thought the first was bad enough to be burned? It's not like they are short books that can be finished in an afternoon.
Why would you read a second if you thought the first was bad enough to be burned? It’s not like they are short books that can be finished in an afternoon.
Because so many people are so passionate about them, "maybe i was wrong, maybe i'm harsh" was the thoughts... but no.... i tried the 2nd... i won't be trying a 3rd.
Any order is fine I think, although Consider Phlebus before Look to Windward and Use of Weapons before Surface Detail will help with some minor points.
I have never liked CF so if you read it first and feel the same, persevere and I think you will be rewarded. As someone else posted I always feel like The Business is nod to the Culture in the Vanguard organisation mentioned in one of the books.
State of the Art is an amusing read and A Gift from the Culture adds to the mystery. I would like to erase my memory of the series and read Inversions first to see what I make of it out of context.
As someone else said Against Dark Background is good although perhaps a bit naive in its writing style. It seems to be very pertinent at this time.
I also had trouble with Feersum Endjinn and I don't think it was the dialect - it really felt like I was learning to read again, I just could not get the prose to flow in my head. It is well worth sticking it out though.
Just started rereading them because of this thread and realised that I had never read the first two! I'm enjoying them once more.
No, but you have to make a distinction between “I don’t like it” and “it’s rubbish”.
You can't make people express anything other that what they feel. I'm really passionate about Banks but my wife started to read Use of Weapons but gave up saying; "I can't take the names of these people seriously" Banks' culture novels aren't for everyone.
You can’t make people express anything other that what they feel.
No, but I can ask that people think carefully about things 🙂
It’s not like they are short books that can be finished in an afternoon.
Errrrr, when i was running through banks books for the first time, i used to actually set aside an entire block of time to finish, cover to cover in one hit, the only one i've had to put down and restart the following day was The Algebraist.
Some of them have required me to sit on the sofa for over 12 hours with only comfort breaks.
As above though, Feersum Endjinn was a short book (relatively) that took a lot of reading.
they were IMO absolutely terrible, mixed up, convoluted and absolute rubbish
OK, so you couldn't follow the storylines, nevermind.
I think Shakespeare is terrible, i don't go burning them, or slagging them off.
I think coming onto this thread where someone is asking advice (ie, not asking if the books are good or if they should read them) and saying 'They're rubbish' is kind of like dropping into a 'What tyres for...' thread and saying, 'I tired mountain biking two times and it was shit both times.'
Yes, it is your opinion. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.
Just know that by sharing your opinion in this particular thread you're contributing nothing to the conversation and doing nothing but winding people up.
Feel free to start another thread titled 'Iain Banks is a bit shit, isn't he?'
Enjoying the Banks love. Reading windward now, taking my time, I seem to struggle to get through books nowadays, too many other distractions. Pretty sure my first read went something like
excession
player of games
use of weapons
inversions
windward
phlebas
surface detail
seem to have missed Matter and hydrogen sonata, will remedy that
love feersum and algebraist too. Bascule's chapters got a lot easier to read after txt speech became a thing
Brookmyre in a Banks thread, well hello! Which one SF wasnt that great? Bedlam, pandaemonium and places in the darkness are all SF-y (tho I presume the latter was meant)
and checking the titles on wiki, Ive only just learned of Ambrose Parry, more of the same or different direction/style?
I bought a job lot of Culture books many moons ago. Tried reading PoG and UoW but had no idea what was happening. Despite that, I've always said that one day I would persevere and all would click. Not sure when that day is, but I think I need to find myself a beginners guide to the Culture first.
Tried reading PoG and UoW but had no idea what was happening.
I did that. Started with UoW and didn't read it it carefully enough; it was a while ago but I think I missed that alternate chapters are from opposite ends of the story. So I gave up on it. A few years later I read The Algebraist and thought it was really good, so looked for some more, found Matter (which is Culture and SC but I found it fairly straightforward) and then other Culture books and some of the non-M books. By the time I re-read UoW I knew that I should expect to understand what was happening until I reached the end. PoG was better on re-reading too. I can now look forward to reading them all again.
first few chapters are always wtf is going on here? just roll with it, keep reading it will become clear - or clear-er at any rate.
Tried reading PoG and UoW but had no idea what was happening.
One thing about Use of Weapons is that it's the same story arc but in two parts, one of which is moving forward in time and the other moving backwards and the chapters alternate between the two parts (plus a prologue, epilogue, and various flashbacks).
Reading it back I'm not sure if that'll help or just be more confusing 🙂
Makes Tarantino films look straight forward...
UoW is a bloody great read though. Absolutely fantastic novel. I can only imagine the carnage of the first draft...
I believe it's actually one of the first Culture novels written, although the early drafts of it were several times larger and didn't have the interleaving arcs, so the climax was in the middle...
places in the darkness
that one. Not up to your usual standard, C minus, see me after
UoW is a bloody great read though.
It's the only one I don't much care for. Why tell a story like that?
Why tell a story like that?
Because other wise the plot device and horrific reveal don't have nearly the same impact
One thing about Use of Weapons is that it’s the same story arc but in two parts, one of which is moving forward in time and the other moving backwards
I believe it’s actually one of the first Culture novels written, although the early drafts of it were several times larger and didn’t have the interleaving arcs, so the climax was in the middle…
Wait...
Wut?
I re-read that again recently, I always assumed there was a central arc, flashbacks to pre-culture and flashbacks to earlier SC work.
HOW THE HELL DID I MISS THAT???
I am still patiently waiting for the new publication to come out. I know it's going to be basically some pencil drawings, some excerpts and some thinly fleshed out concepts designed to wring the wallets of Culture fans. But shut up and take my money!
Feersum Endjinn I had to read twice (with a long interval in between); the second time I found almost unfocussing my eyes like those magic eye posters from the 90s helped! I definitely didn't feel it was written in any particular dialect.
Player of Games, I appreciate why the protagonist is drawn the way he is, although he is not the warmest character. As someone mentioned earlier, there are more unpalatable characters in that book.
Ferbin in Matter is probably my favourite character. Use of Weapons is extraordinary. Against a Dark Background is very gritty.
I think the joy is that the books stand up to multiple reads.
I warmed to Feersum Enjinn - quite quirky and an easy read (I thought).
Interesting tangents and stuff explored.
Use of Weapons was good - the ending was a bit "not expecting *that*".
Player of Games I liked too - again, some of the storylines were nicely drawn from flights of imagination (well, most).
Song of Stone - I'd walk a long way to avoid reading that again.
Among my prized books are signed copies of The Bridge (which I'd leant to a mate who went to an IB signing) and Crow Road - same - he went along to buy a new copy of CR and got mine signed as well.
I am still patiently waiting for the new publication to come out. I know it’s going to be basically some pencil drawings, some excerpts and some thinly fleshed out concepts designed to wring the wallets of Culture fans. But shut up and take my money!
Hold on, what? Tell me more!
Excellent, thank you.
I think I need to find myself a beginners guide to the Culture first.
Try this:
http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm
^^ Oh, nice one!👍
Vavatch is still going! Well, sort of. That made me inordinately pleased.
Not culture - if you read Against A Dark Background, there is an epilogue. I don't like it much as I feel it spoils the ending but if you are interested after reading here is a link.
http://trevor-hopkins.com/banks/epilogue-against-a-dark-background.html
I don't think it appears in any edition of the book and was published in a lesser known SF magazine.
Was that written by Banks or is it fan fiction?
That site is a lot of his fan fiction, however, the epilogue is by Iain Banks and can be found elsewhere. The original print of it was in a SF mag.
Edit: written in 1994 a year after publication and roughly 20 after writing.