Its worth reading that Guardian article I posted above. He’s already on warning and he’s not even been elected yet. The nutters are not convinced of his conversion to their cause under Cruella and are already issuing threats of (another!) leadership election to depose him if he tacks to the centre
Yeah this. I read it last night and I'd broadly agree with what he's saying. Uggh.
On my evening commentariat round up I haven't found anyone of the usual suspects saying this is bad for labour per se. Sure, I'd agree it might drag the discourse to the right, and there's clearly an discussion about the labour position already.
But I think you have to consider the quality of the candidates too. Badenoch is very poor, has weak and frankly ridiculous positions that she is unable to justify, and when she attempts to, she gets angry and patronizes the interviewer. Jenrick? Oh come on.
The choice is between someone the mps don't trust, and someone else who gets angry and nobody likes
I see the man-frog has come out and stated the bleedin’ obvious. Clearly a message they don’t want to hear, but he’s right
https://Twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1843678922124517777?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Yes the 19 letters thing is a weak point in my reasoning. I wonder if that low threshold will prompt a rule change in the name of stability and recent past experiences.
The Malevolent Penfold Marc Francois and his chums love a leadership crisis nearly as much as Labour loves to brief against itself.
No agenda can “defeat” Reform, or whatever they’ll be called next.
Of course there is. People considering voting reform will do so on the simple assessment of whether they can get a GP appointment, not have to wait months for hospital treatment, if their kids can go to the local school, and afford the weekly shop and be able to pay their rent/mortgage. If they can do all those things by the time the next election comes around and be reassured that govt acts in their interests, they will forget all the stuff about immigrants and will be much less likely to vote for Farage. If the govt carries on telling them these things aren't possible though or attempts to make excuses, Farage is nailed on to be in govt in some form (perhaps as PM) next time around.
Hoping for a Reform - Conservative merger of any sort is nihilistic in the extreme, do we really want the Conservatives to turn into The Front Nationale? Those Labour supporters licking their lips at such a prospect should be careful what they wish for.
What Badenoch has in her favour is consistency, something both her admirers and detractors can agree on. The result isn't even in yet already the conversation, from both the left and the right is how Jenrick will flip-flop at the first opportunity.
I don't know about you but I'd rather the far right stay in the margins of British politics. Badenoch will divide a Reform Party that like a wolf in a dog's costume have preyed upon voter disaffection based (amongst other things) on what they see as a lack of consistency from the political classes.
It might be good for the political health of the country if a clearer offer were made to them:
Labour=Left Wing.:
Conservatives = Right Wing:
Reform = Far right.
Greens = Far left
(Apologies to the Scots and Northern Irish, whose voting patterns follow a more complcated route)
Hoping for a Reform – Conservative merger of any sort is nihilistic in the extreme
Don't understand it either. If they merge (or more likely agree a non-aggression pact) they could win the next election, probably with Farage as leader. I know Ed Davey has fantasies of the libdems becoming the official opposition, but they're just that, a fantasy. It's much more likely that the labour and libdem vote will be split and the combined tory and reform vote will be larger, putting them in govt.
I think you’re massively underestimating the animosity between Farage, Tice and the rest of the Reform mob and their contempt for the present Tories. They’ve never forgiven them for what they consider to be Borises Betrayal over Brexit and consider them to be a bunch of (relative) socialists.
A merger, or any electoral pact, will simply never happen. Once bitten and all that
Thats not to say that Farage wouldn’t want to see himself as the next (or one after) Tory party leader, whereupon Reform would collapse like UKIP before it
If that does happen, then that would finally split the Tory party as the right wingers would welcome him like Richard Burgon welcomed Corbyn, while anyone sane left in the Tory Party (are any left?) would be off
they could win the next election
I think equally likely is that Reform will pull itself apart. There's any numbers of folks from any of his previous vehicles/parties that have been discarded in the wake of Farage's narcissistic megalomania, will tell you that as far as he's concerned he IS the show, and will not tolerate any form of individualism, or treading on his ground, or sharing his spotlight. Any party with him, Tice and associated hangers on in it is probably hours away every single week from being explosively destroyed like the morning after a "10 pints and a curry" night out.
I think you’re massively underestimating the animosity between Farage
Possibly. But the prospect of acquiring power has enormous potential to resolve disagreements and personal grudges. We know from history that the tories are experts at adapting and reacting to the political landscape to win power. They've done it time and again and will this time. They'll dangle some irresistable temptations in front of Farage and Tice and they won't be able to resist.
while anyone sane left in the Tory Party (are any left?) would be off
I'm not sure there are many moderates left in the tory party after Johnson's purges. The assumption that centrists will leave the party split and marginalised is probably overegged.
They’ll dangle some irresistable temptations in front of Farage and Tice and they won’t be able to resist.
The only thing that'll tempt Farage is leadership, and the Tories aren't going to offer him that.
The remaining Tory “moderates” are all spineless pieces of shit that will bend over backwards to accommodate any and all leaders regardless of how extreme they are.
Appologies to the Lib Dems as well, I forgot about them. Perhaps because they are the box that people tick when they'd rather draw a cock and balls on the ballot paper. (I should know, I've voted for them twice in the past).
The Lib Dem vote is more an expression of how the electorate view the failings of their preferred party rather than enthusiasm for any particular values or policy expressed by the Lib Dems..
The Lib Dem vote is more an expression of how the electorate view the failings of their preferred party rather than enthusiasm for any particular values or policy expressed by the Lib Dems..
To be fair, that's how labour just won.
One of the issues the Tories have had over recent years is the amount of influence the right of the party has had, so that more centrist/electable leaders have ended up compromised after having to pander to the right. Now that they’re going to be electing someone from the right of the party, will we see the centre of the party being able to have as much influence
No. Because there isn't going to be a Brexit referendum with Remain winning between now and then.
The Tory tack to the populist right was a direct reaction to what the referendum showed them - a large proportion of the electorate harbour unspoken prejudices and are willing to be lied to in order not to have examine their own issues.
The Lib Dem vote is more an expression of how the electorate view the failings of their preferred party rather than enthusiasm for any particular values or policy expressed by the Lib Dems
Don’t underestimate the amount of people who when asked ‘what do you want to see in a political leader?’ answer ‘a paunchy, middle-aged bloke in a wetsuit on a big water slide’
"To be fair, that’s how labour just won."
Exactly, and in large part owing to disaffected Conservative voters ticking the Lib Dem box rather than drawing a cock and balls on the ballot paper!
"Don’t underestimate the amount of people who when asked ‘what do you want to see in a political leader?’ answer ‘a paunchy, middle-aged bloke in a wetsuit on a big water slide’"
That's good.
Saw pundit on twitter post hat if 25 moderate Tory MP defect to LibDems and then Ed Davy would be leader of opposition, snag is finding 25 moderate Tory mps
I’m not sure there are many moderates left in the tory party after Johnson’s purges. The assumption that centrists will leave the party split and marginalised is probably overegged.
That sort of depends what sort of candidates they find at the next election. The exodus and collapse last time round means that in 5 years time there going to be a lot of new Tory MP's. Unless the right wing can survive at the top of the party until 2029 and be organized enough to control MP selection, there may well be enough moderate MP's with their no confidence letters for the day after the election to install someone more palatable to the center.
“Don’t underestimate the amount of people who when asked ‘what do you want to see in a political leader?’ answer ‘a paunchy, middle-aged bloke in a wetsuit on a big water slide’”
That’s good.
It isn't. It reflects just how many folk don't feel they have a political home as the declining UK thrashes around looking for snake oil cures or someone else to blame.
The remaining Tory “moderates” are all spineless pieces of shit that will bend over backwards to accommodate any and all leaders regardless of how extreme they are.
Well the One Nation Group have just announced that they have in fact located their spine and are refusing to back either of the candidates, Their press release says:
"The Tory Reform Group (TRG) will not be endorsing a candidate in this year’s Conservative leadership contest.
As the home of One Nation Conservatism since 1975, the TRG is committed to being radically moderate, values-driven, and focused on the future. Throughout the contest, we have sought to engage extensively with all the leadership campaigns in order to understand the views and approaches of the candidates. Unfortunately, we have been consistently disappointed by the lack of engagement from the two candidates chosen by MPs.
TRG members were consulted throughout the process, and the results clearly show that neither candidate has secured widespread support from the majority of our membership. Both have used rhetoric and focused on issues which are far and away from the party at its best, let alone the One Nation values we cherish and uphold. Therefore, the board of the TRG has unanimously concluded that we are unable to endorse either candidate."
All these 'moderates' all happily voted for the Rwanda scheme and various other hardline policies. All of this is as much on them as it is on the kemis and Jenricks. Let them go down with the ship rather than drift into the LibDems and spread their poison over there
The TRG sound like a political force to be reckoned with. I wonder who he is?
binners
Full Member
The TRG sound like a political force to be reckoned with. I wonder who he is?
Got me thinking, what happened to the Five Families? I'm guessing that after the cull they can now all fit in a Bond Bug.
I've just read something fantastic that I didn't already know...
Apparently the tactical mastermind behind Jimmy Dimly's leadership campaign was none other than well-known tactical genius Grant Shapps.
That's utterly hilarious. How long before Shapps has it on his CV as an example of his political experience and nous?
Meanwhile I am amused by the thought of Dimly raging through the corridors asking a sequence of people where that damned Shapps idiot is. The line in return is suspiciously uniform, but Dimly can't quite put his finger on it.
"You, Green isn't it? Where the hell is Shapps?"
"No idea, sir".
"You, Fox isn't it? Where the hell is Shapps?"
"No idea, sir".
"You, Stockheath isn't it......"
What a wunch of bankers.
Newsagents podcast has been amusing the past 2 days. Their sources seem to show it was a massive screwup with individual mp's thinking they were being clever
We’ve elected Robert Jenrick by mistake!
From the Newsagents Podcast - quoting a former Tory grandee on Cleverly:
"I know James is as thick as shit, but I think he'd make a good leader of the Conservative Party".
Sums it up pretty well perfectly for me.
Which is why all the moderate voters all headed off to swoon over Ed in his wetsuit.
Can you see Robert Jenrick or Kemi Badanoch doing a bungee jump? No, me neither. But unless they’re prepared to jump off a big crane in a supermarket car park in Sussex with a big elastic band on their ankles, that vote has gone for ever
Latest news item on the subject. 😉
Just reading Badenoch's wiki page (as I don't really know much about her) and In the section marked "Early career" It says that she started out as a software engineer in 2003 and by 2006 was an Associate Director of Wealth Management at Coutts bank. That's quite some career path...What's the going rate for a software engineer £35-40K? I can't imagine that the role at Coutts was anything less than 6 figures.
I guess being a Tory candidate opens up some doors, huh?
The remaining Tory “moderates” are all spineless pieces of shit that will bend over backwards to accommodate any and all leaders regardless of how extreme they are.
isn't it the ones who ran away instead of at least trying to put the brakes on extremism the real cowards?
isn’t it the ones who ran away instead of at least trying to put the brakes on extremism the real cowards?
TBF I think they less 'ran away' than were quite ruthlessly and deliberately purged from the party by B0-Jo and Cummings in 2019.
The Tory moderates with spines, the Soubrys, Grieves and Gaukes of this world were largely absent by 2020.
Which is why all the moderate voters all headed off to swoon over Ed in his wetsuit.
Whilst it's an easy pisstake, the Lib Dem approach was to combine Ed's mildy daft adventures with a fairly steady of Drumbeat of policy announcements, interviews and panels, much of this lead by deputy leader Daisy Cooper, who was a constant presence in the media rounds during the campaign.
It worked.
JRM will restore respect. Full Victorian school master stylee.
They missed off the "or else" from the bottom of that jenrick ad
They wanted baked bean guy but he was busy
