[Closed] The awful, shocking, terrible, horrible realisation...

Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean...

Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean...

Sadly me too

Not nice is it?

I'm not religious by any means, but my parents were Catholic.
Very interesting to hear what she thought of 'them' too.

Going back a couple of generations my ancestors were English, French, Spanish, Irish & Belgian.
I find it fascinating, but to her it seems to be sign of weakness.
I'm sure her family are similar, but they seem to have a very selective memory.

Sometimes I just want to pull the bedclothes over my head and not bother with the rest of the planet.

Happened in my workplace last week, a few customers came in and the subject of the tragic killing of Lee Rigby was mentioned and some incredibly racist and ignorant views were raised, i argued against what was being said and for all the good it did it was an utterly pointless cause on my part - i figure that's us lost a couple of swivel eyed loon customers who spend a decent amount of money, but hey-ho - life is too short to think "i wish i had said ........ in response".

but hey-ho - life is too short to think "i wish i had said ........ in response".

Amen.

Pathetic, craven conformity rules.
The politics of ignorance & apathy have almost won.

I've always believed that peaceful, positive example is the only real truth - perhaps I was wrong.

Nope, it's not good. I know someone well who: -
- cannot stand the entrance of immigrants to the UK who want our jobs ands money
- believes everything they read on the Daily Mail
- resents the payment of benefits to legal immigrants
- moans constantly of wasted taxes

This is despite: -
- knowing my late father was an immigrant! But apparently he was "different" - a 'good' immigrant if you will...
- the fact that she relied on benefits for almost 20 years because she needed to be at home because her son was 'disabled'. He lived and indeed lives an almost entirely 'normal' life
- she is and will remain to be a net receiver of benefits. By the time she dies she will effectively owe the state hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Great eh...

A guy in our store used this to argue why carrying guns should be allowed in the U.K. because it's been so successful at preventing crime here 🙄

always used to point out that my missus was an immigrant to the country, you know one of those white ones, same thin stealing all the jobs over here. But most thought that was fine.
Get the same in bits of Oz, nobody bats an eyelid at me who's been here a year but my Brother in law still gets grief despite having lived and worked here for about 20 years because he is malaysian.

I do wonder if social media is largely to blame. Every bellend in the world is given a voice. Other borderline bellends hear the soundbites, are 'righteously' outraged and share the sentiment. Many of the latter group might never have read a newspaper but are just about able to fart about on Facebook for most of the day, imbibing dangerous ideas (this actually works both ways - extremist views are largely held by vulnerable, scared people with malleable brains).

I only say this as Facebook really has been a cesspit this last week. I pick my (FB) friends carefully but interaction with scratends is eventually unavoidable. And the invasion of FB by people importing posts from Twitter triples the cock-knuckle count.

It ranges from the attention seeking, pious, "Right, that's it! I'm having a massive cull of my friends - I HATE RACISTS", through to "Kick the killers off our streets, back where they came from". No reflection on the OP (notwithstanding that the signs were obviously there, so it shouldn't have been that much of a shocking realisation).

Anyway, it's simply astounding how much hatred and vitriol has been whipped up. My concern for the poor victim was [i]immediately[/i] and entirely overwhelmed by my concern for the aftermath and repercussions of the incident, and lo, within a few days a mosque was burnt down and the EDL were cashing in.

It all makes me a pretty sad ****ing panda, frankly.

user-removed - Member

I do wonder if social media is largely to blame.

No, it isn't.
Wonder no more.
A means of communication can't really be blamed for anything, can it?

It ranges from the attention seeking, pious, "Right, that's it! I'm having a massive cull of my friends - I HATE RACISTS", through to "Kick the killers off our streets, back where they came from". No reflection on the OP (notwithstanding that the signs were obviously there, so it shouldn't have been that much of a shocking realisation).

So those who'd prefer to eschew ignorance and stupidity are 'attention seeking' & 'pious' are they?

I'm not having a 'massive cull' of my friends.
Someone I've been friendly with has been a tosser.
They've expressed untrue, stupid, & ignorant opinions.
I'd rather not be their friend any more.

I've got absolute intolerance for religion so while I'm not actively involved I welcome the war.

Rusty - believe me, I mean no offence and would have done the same in your place. The Facebook people I know who delight in telling all 682 of their friends that they've had a cull are renowned for being 'look-at-me-princesses. I have no idea who you are, so don't include you amongst them.

The whole point of my post was to muse about the way certain human beings are able to rile each other up; inflame opinion, share inflammatory, often fake imagery for their own needs, usually based on fear / prejudice (again, this works in both camps).

Facebook multiplies this effect. Instead of it being a few dickheads in the staffroom at work, it's hundreds of them, all chanting the same hateful dogma, into the living rooms of millions - FB now gives us not just friend's information, but trending Twitter posts, status updates from friends of friends of friends, and perhaps most insidiously, sponsored (paid for) posts. Tempted to close my account now I've said that.

We are on the same page, I just put it badly, sorry.

Damn good point.

Why did I post this?
Am I just seeking affirmation?
Some sort of justification?

I'm not sure if I know anymore.

I'm not scared, btw.
I've just had enough of listening to ignorance & stupidity used as a justification for evil.

But most importantly I believe that our behaviour is far more influential than posting on a website.

Tempted to close my account now I've said that.

We are on the same page, I just put it badly, sorry.

Me too.
These words are meaningless.

I do wonder if social media is largely to blame.

3. The proportion of Asian families in said town has remained constant for the past thirty years.

Interesting. Which town is it?

UKIP are right, but only on Europe... nothing else.

If you want to be more shocked, read the Daily Fail's comment section. "like spending twenty minutes in an insane asylum"

One of the best things I have seen linked on facebook is this

[Url=] http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/ [/url]

I like Russell brand more and more, i'm sure he's not everyones cup of tea but he talks sense

Edit: I give up the link just doesnt seem to want to work, is it me being dense? :-/

A very insightful piece there by Brand but you made the link, link back to this page 🙁

Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and ****ter nonsense? I've never bothered and I lead a pretty satisfactory, well-informed life.

I'm beginning to get an insight though into where my wife gets some of her bizarre ideas, thanks to this post.

Surely forums are just another form of 'social media' - I like facebook as it serves a purpose to me, but yes it is populated with a few idiots . . . Rather reflective of the the planet

Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and ****ter nonsense? I've never bothered and I lead a pretty satisfactory, well-informed life.

I remember as many junk crap fwd email's from the late 90's as there is crap on Facebook these days. Sometimes its just about having a good ignore threshold.

UKIP are right, but only on Europe... nothing else.

I take the position that even if the EU has only removed the seeming inevitability of war in Europe, then it has been worth it...

i've said it before, anyone who doesn't like someone else because of their gender, colour of their skin, age, who they have sex with, disability, religion or owt else is living in the dark ages and hasn't grown up from the playground. diddums.

Unfortunately I have to put up with this from someone as well. Apparently all Muslims are the same and it just needs something to tip them over the edge before they go on a spree.

Any other immigrants are fair game as well.

UKIP - tick, but 'I'm not racist, but...'

🙁

[url=

Specials on the same subject[/url]

[i]Why do people waste so much time on this Farcebook and ****ter nonsense?[/i]

ignorance in action, right there...

Having said that, I had to highlight to one of my friends that the images he was re-posting were from "BritonsFirst" a website and "political party" created by an ex BNP member.

Yes and there were images getting reposted fron EDL, I think people were looking at the pics and not where they had come from.

The Russell Brand thing is a good read though - if someone else can make the link work 😉

You lot who keep reading the Brand link - why can't you just post it up for the rest of us? 🙄 😆

[url= http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/ ]here you go[/url] 8)

Agree with RS all the way.

My entire family on my mother's side are swivel eyed loons- one drives around with two sheets of A4 saying "Stuff The Euro and the EEC" in the rear side windows of his car. Eventually you just get used to it and let it wash over you- they're all nice enough people when they're not being massive bigots.

They complain about immigrants an awful lot, and are very clear that they'd rather put massive barriers around the country and not let anyone in. All this around my wife, who is an immigrant, but because she's white and American apparently she's somehow not a part of the same problem 🙄

"The Muslims don't want to integrate. They have forced marriages and insist on dressing like they're still in India, like your nan's neighbours. And that girl you went to school with".

"Mom, that girl married a white atheist and came from a Hindu family, and nan's neighbours were Sikhs".

"What's the difference?"

Ladies and gentlemen, my mother! I tried to explain the differences in the religions, but she muttered something about Britain being a Christian country and immigrants' need to conform. My mother, who doesn't believe in god and has never been to a Church outside of a wedding, funeral or Christening.

I've had the conversation many times, people going on about Poles/Muslims/Romanian immigrants stealing our jobs. I point out that I am an immigrant. "but that's OK because you're, you know, ahem" Me: "white ?" "well, you know, one of us".

Well, I have a British Passport. That's OK then. What about all the people from Hong Kong who applied when it went back to the Chinese and were turned away ? They had British parents and passports. "well you know, they weren't like us" "what, you mean white ?" etc etc etc.

It's like atheist vs religious types arguing, you can't use logic and verifiable facts to defeat nutters.

But I do plan to throw things at the EDL if they ever come up to Scotland. Which would be quite amusing in itself.

P.S and at least in this country the nutters don't have free and ready access to automatic weapons....

The Russell Brand link:

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

My Mum's French, has lived here for 40+ years and is now a British citizen. My whole family are essentially economic immigrants from a few generations back - we don't have a drop of 'English' blood in us though you'd never guess that by seeing or talking to us.

My Mum still complains about some immigration - basically, the ones who don't attempt to integrate which is an interesting point. On the one hand, I don't think it's an unreasonable position to take but on the other, you need to look at why people don't try to integrate as I don't think it's a particularly natural human trait.

I figure that it happens where the people immigrating are somehow scared or don't feel accepted by the inidiginous culture and as such keep to themselves where they feel relatively safe. This then brings it back nicely full circle to the UKIP/etc point of view as I think their position makes integration much harder and less likely.

Ladies and gentlemen, my mother!

A couple of weeks ago my mum 'liked' a picture on facebook which was basically a short text bemoaning the fact that your average illegal immigrant in Britain gets hundreds of pounds a week without having to work or pay taxes, a free five-bed semi and generally leads a pretty cushy life, while a proper British pensioner who paid taxes all their life only gets thrupence ha'penny and lump of coal to suck on.

I typed the first line into Google and it returned a Snopes page, which I sent to my mum.

To be fair she was just being very naive, and asked why someone would post it up in the first place if it wasn't true. She generally tries to see the best in people and it just hadn't occurred to her that someone might post that bilge to stir up hatred.

Ladies and gentlemen, my mother!

It's not just you Mrs Toast!

I despair when I hear my mum going off on one. She reads the Daily Mail (Irish Edition). FFS!! THE IRISH EDITION!! Her two children emigrated here (but, hey, we look the same and until we open our mouths, you'd never know). Half her family live in Australia, the UK, Argentina, America, France and god knows where else at this stage.

When I was growing up, she was a teacher with fairly left wing views - it's probably one of the reasons why I'm a bit of a hand wringing wet liberal leftie myself. But for her generation (working and living in Ireland with almost constant recession, zero growth and the occasional 2 or 3 year boom on the back of whatever was going on in the UK), times have been tough...because of the actions of the greedy generation that she raised. When times get tough, folk just get the finger out and point it at outsiders.

You think it's ironic when anyone in the UK whinges about immigration, it's got nothing on listening to Irish people whinging about it, I can tell you.

There have been a couple of things in the national and local news recently that have seemingly brought the worst out in people.

National - Lee Rigby murder - people I 'know' on Facebook posting pictures of Enoch Powell and asking "are there any decent Muslims in the world", FFS.

Local - a number of attempted child abductions in the local area. Someone posted that thier child had almost been snatched, but then the thread descended into an hysterical witch hunt with people filling in gaps in the facts and starting dangerous rumours.

I've been on the verge of contributing but thought better of it and blocked a few people instead to avoid the vitriol, almost all of which was spouted from a position of ignorance.

I dunno, I detest all the vile unfounded crap that's been stirred up recently, think UKIP are borderline racists, card-carrying Guardianista etc etc - I think most people who whinge about immigrants are just racist or at the very least repeating ignorant racist nonsense they've heard.

However, there are places where there are issues re immigration that you can't just dismiss as racism. There are issues around sending your white kids to a school that's 90% ethnic minorities, with many different native languages. There is also an issue sometimes with the 'village mentality' of people who've come from areas that have extreme poverty, and low standards of education, health care etc, and are extremely socially conservative. There's issues with people working for less than minimum wage undermining the local labour market.

None of this is to say we should blame immigrants for everything but its also daft to pretend there's never a single problem ever.

I don't think you can say anyone who expresses concern about any of those things is necessarily a racist - it's just that they often are! And there's so much nonsense and made-up crap spouted by those that generally do mention it, it's impossible to have a sensible discussion.

IMHO etc

But I do plan to throw things at the EDL if they ever come up to Scotland. Which would be quite amusing in itself.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/scottish-defence-league-looking-to-exploit-woolwich-outrage-1.96467

On the one hand, I don't think it's an unreasonable position to take but on the other, you need to look at why people don't try to integrate as I don't think it's a particularly natural human trait.

Just like the British expat communities that exist in almost every country in the world, with their British Clubs. People are drawn to what they know, so when they move to a new country, often hang around with people who talk the same langauge and wear the same type of clothes.

There are issues around sending your white kids to a school that's 90% ethnic minorities, with many different native languages

Go on...?

There is also an issue sometimes with the 'village mentality' of people who've come from areas that have extreme poverty, and low standards of education, health care etc, and are extremely socially conservative. There's issues with people working for less than minimum wage undermining the local labour market.

Hmm, not convinced this is an immigration issue. There are plenty of immigrants working skilled well paid jobs and contributing to the economy. Calling the above an immigration issue is like calling benefit scrounging a white issue.

Lets not get bogged down in racism. Most people hate those scroungers on the dole,those bastards on their bikes who don't pay road tax,those selfish a holes who let their dogs crap everywhere that dick from next door who parks his car outside your house on YOUR bit of the road etc etc.
Edit and those total f wits who ride a bike with different wheel sizes to you.

I see a lot of stuff on facebook about how decent British folk get nothing and illegal immigrants get everything - it's so completely inaccurate it makes my blood boil, I've worked with refugees and asylum seekers (who are NOT classed as illegal immigrants), and asylum seekers get less than half the benefits that citizens do - around £36 per week. Have any of these people who complain about it ever tried to live on that? Have any of these people who whinge about people seeking asylum here ever lived in a country where they might be persecuted for their political or religious beliefs, harassed, subject to threats against themselves or their family, potentially imprisoned or tortured, maybe seen members of their family harmed, murdered, or "disappeared"?

There but for the grace of God/accident of birth or whatever you believe in go any of us. I bet if civil war broke out in this country, a lot of the people who whinge about people seeking asylum here would be the first to be on a plane out of the country going cap in hand somewhere else, because they'd see it as their right.

I would rather live in a 100% muslim area than next to any of these scary scary people:

Little Miss Panda, I feel that most of the gay or disabled people in this country could tick at least one of your boxes.
We do sometimes have a group of people who weren't born in this country come into my shop and they WILL steal something no matter how closely we watch them.
Not everyone who comes to this country arrives here because they like our way of life. There's plenty of English scumbags and plenty of foreign ones too.

"I'd love to see a mosque being built in Mecca"

Erm...

Quite right Zippy! And its all well and good calling people 'swivel eyed loons' because they hold views different to your own....or dismissing readers of the Daily Mail as deluded, but each to their own, we can't all think the same! Although the OP would clearly like everyone to and reviles people who don't!

I think there's a word for that!

Although the OP would clearly like everyone to and reviles people who don't!

I think there's a word for that!

Yes; it's 'enlightened'.

As far as the FB stuff, I think the Mash [url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/98-per-cent-of-people-you-went-to-school-with-are-racist-2013052870220 ]nailed it[/url]

With racism I tend to find the people generally fuming about us being 'swamped' with immigrants are the ones who live in nice, leafy areas where there aren't any. But they all seem terribly well informed on the subject. Mainly from all those Daily Mail editorials, I suppose.

When you do live in racially mixed areas, as I have done most of my life, you find that everyone just bumps along with each other, quite happily. I've never experienced this 'racial tension' that I read about. Despite having ample opportunity. But then I'm clearly not as informed as someone who emails his copy in from his exclusively rich, white enclave in Surrey. How could I possibly be?

We do sometimes have a group of people who weren't born in this country come into my shop and they WILL steal something no matter how closely we watch them.

That'll be the parties of French school children then? Notorious shoplifters and mostly Catholics.

Do not get sucked into the UKIP are looney's nonsense, that's fundamentally underestimating their current and likely future popularity.

UKIP have a couple of very powerful policy stances.

The EU (as it stands) is bad for Britain. Immigration (as it stands) is out of control.

The Woolwich murder must be manna from Heaven for UKIP.

"I'd love to see a mosque being built in Mecca"

And this ladies and gentlemen, and the other pearlers in that video, are why I am a keen fan of free speech...

I think people get more racist as they get older. My step-father gets worse and worse. It doesn't help that my bro-in-law is Maori, and winds him up on purpose (fair call if you ask me) but makes family events more interesting that they should be, and my mother wonders why I don't go home more often.

The most hypocritical example I ever saw was out in Spain, where I stayed in a place called Campasol (the rent was cheap OK ? And it was close to the mountains) which was a ghetto for retired Brits from the housing estates of Manchester. The daily mail sold out in the British Shop every morning, all the shops had big signs saying English Spoken, none of the residents spoke Spanish. Many conversations about how you can't live in the UK any more it's full of immigrants and they don't integrate !! If I ever asked if they felt that was a bit hypocritical the stock reply was "what do you mean, we are English" as if that gave them a whole bunch of exemptions.

There is a Scottish Defence League ?? I didn't know that. I have to work saturday so the throwing vegetables will have to wait, dammit.

If anyone would like help singling out any racists that might be on their FB friends list, [url=

link[/url] is a handy little tool..

Simply log into your facebook account in another tab and use the link to instantly check how many of your 'friends' like the EDL (the racists, not the disco lot) page..

I was very gladdened to note that out of 350+ folk, my results came back clean..

Please please please do the SDL paint their faces blue and white?????

I live in a country with a large expat community. I'm not bothered about hanging around with Brits but some of the ones I have encountered have given me an eye opener. I met one bloke who has been here for almost 20 years, has a very good standard of living, two kids raised here etc. His opener was about how he doesn't like to mix with the locals as they're "not like us" and how he can't wait to move back to England "as soon as possible" when it's clear he won't while he's earning well in a country where life is quite easy. The 10-15 people he was with were all Brits, most of whom have been here a long time but they are quite content to order drinks in English rather than any of the THREE languages the locals speak.

Not that different from what some people slam immigrant communities for in the UK really.

And then there was the time some random English bloke accosted me in my local and launched into a diatribe about "coloureds", immigrants and homosexuals. Him living in a foreign country, in a bar where the owners are immigrants from Southern Europe and the barman is gay. 🙄

grum - Member

I dunno, I detest all the vile unfounded crap that's been stirred up recently, think UKIP are borderline racists, card-carrying Guardianista etc etc - I think most people who whinge about immigrants are just racist or at the very least repeating ignorant racist nonsense they've heard.

However, there are places where there are issues re immigration that you can't just dismiss as racism....

...None of this is to say we should blame immigrants for everything but its also daft to pretend there's never a single problem ever.

Grum, mate, this is no place for sensible debate; this is the which-STW-member-can-ride-the-highest-horse-to-the-highest-moral-high-ground-and-then-piss-the-highest/furthest-and-prove-how-awfully-enlightend-and-liberal-they-really-are thread.

It's not the real world, silly! 🙄

There are issues around sending your white kids to a school that's 90% ethnic minorities, with many different native languages
Go on...?

Same kind of issues as sending your ethnic minority kids to a 90% white school I'd imagine (or 99.97% white like my school).

Hmm, not convinced this is an immigration issue. There are plenty of immigrants working skilled well paid jobs and contributing to the economy. Calling the above an immigration issue is like calling benefit scrounging a white issue.

I'm well aware of that and I believe that on average immigrants tend to contribute more to the economy than the average UK born citizen, that doesn't mean there are no issues though - in some small communities they have seen reasonably large (as a percentage of the total population of the community) numbers of people come from rural ****stan, for example - often from the same village/area. Claiming there are no potential issues around that is just counter-productive IMO. Some of the problem is obviously just bigoted people who don't like Jonny Foreigner, but I don't think that's all it is.

which-STW-member-can-ride-the-highest-horse-to-the-highest-moral-high-ground-and-then-piss-the-highest/furthest-and-prove-how-awfully-enlightend-and-liberal-they-really-are thread.

[b]Oi..!![/b]

I resemble that remark

We have one at work. Bought in a littlejohn article the other day, taped it to the notice board with a "you NEED to read this!" note attached. Last shift he was telling me that I need to be careful going into muslim homes as "you don't know what you're going into!".

I was also warned that the july 7th bombers were all local so i had to be extra careful working on my own "with them". My mother in law worked with mohammed sidiq khan, and thought he was a nice chap, who cared for children and his community. Turns out anyone can be a nutter, and it usually starts with believing other peoples propaganda and hatred verbatim, and trying to force it on other people too, like sticking up articles, and passing warnings based on poor education a simple minded fear of others!

What GRUM said basically

There are issues around sending your white kids to a school that's 90% ethnic minorities, with many different native languages
Go on..

The main one is that a large amount of teaching time is lost teaching the language to children whose parents often cannot support them with this and it therefore impedes the progress of teaching of all subjects.
It is not part of education to teach the language, in that sense, to native speakers as they already speak English

Go on...?

Molgrips, I'm astounded that someone I thought had more than a modicum of intelligence would ask that question.

Is this an attempt by you to give someone enough rope in the hope that he'll hang himself? Or do you genuinely think that's not a problem?

I wouldn't want to send my child to a school in which English was the second language and 90% of the pupils spoke a different language and indulged in a completely different culture. That doesn't make me racist!

We have one at work. Bought in a littlejohn article the other day, taped it to the notice board with a "you NEED to read this!" note attached.

Making you read a Littlejohn article? I'm sure that could be classed as assault 😆

Immigration (as it stands) is out of control.

Is it? OMG! PANIC!

(Hides under bed, with a collection of rudimentary home-made weapons, waiting for the hordes of swarthy invaders to burst through the door)

I'm already under the bed, and I object to your immigrating to here. I don't know you. Under the bed is full, go back where you came from!!!

@quartz - my point is that that is the UKIP policy stance and it's a very popular one

Let's look at some actual factual statistics, shall we?

Net migration to Britain has shrunk by a further 10,000 people to 153,000 in the 12 months to September 2012 compared with the previous quarter, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

Read the full article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/uk-net-migration-shrink-further#ixzz2Ug0ae6nX

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/uk-net-migration-shrink-further

And justin case you don't beleive the 'loony left' grauniad, here's some balance:

http://www.****/news/article-2329651/Net-migration-Britain-falls-lowest-level-decade-crackdown-bogus-students.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant though.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant though.

Who's rant?

Fred - is that you?

@quartz - the UK Border control (therefore ONS) don't know how many immigrants we have, people come in on education visas or as holiday makers from the EU and elsewhere and just stay illegally. We don't track this, we don't know whether they leave. That's what "out of control" means.

So do you have any actual 'evidence' as to the destructive effect such 'out of control' immigration is having on our society?

So a few slip though the net. So what? Do you really think a few thousand people a year represent an 'out of control' immigration situation? Bearing in mind that it will be nigh on impossible for such people to work officially, claim any sort of benefits, or indeed benefit from living here all that much at all?

Well done to everyone for finding it awful, shocking, terrible & horrible, however we have a winner for the most outraged.

Well done to Quartz.

Thanks to all for taking part.

😆

'Muslamic infidel' I may be one of those.. 😯 I think.. My mum was C,O,E and my dad was a Muslim.. and I'm neither..
And in my experience most people who fall for the shit of Islamic extremism in the UK, or the BNP or UKIP just feel that society is failing for them and feel disenfranchised, with a great sense of injustice and frustration, and aren't articulate or intelligent enough to put how they feel into words so take the easy option of following the preachers of hate on both sides..
I haven't got a ray gun though..

the UK Border control (therefore ONS) don't know how many immigrants we have, people come in on education visas or as holiday makers from the EU and elsewhere and just stay illegally. We don't track this, we don't know whether they leave. That's what "out of control" means.

Those BASTARD holiday makers from the EU! How dare they legally stay in a country that allows them to be here. That's sarcasm BTW. I don't have a British passport but can go for a weekend and stay for a lifetime if I want.

More seriously, the problem with a statement like yours is it says "We have no definitive proof, just a likelihood" and then challenges people to disprove it. It happens but probably happens more than one lot of people believe and less than another lot of people believe.

Interestingly, the two most racist posts on my FB have come from an English expat who lives permanently in a French ski resort, hence permanently in a bubble of hypocracy and the other was by a gendarme stationed in Tahiti!

@quartz you are still missing the point, I am posting what UKIP are saying whilst predicting that their share of the vote is going to increase.

I've just had enough of listening to ignorance & stupidity.

Call me a swivel-eyed loon, but heck... I think that things haven't been the same since a certain violent group of immigrants came and threw our property values into chaos a few years back.

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