http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-41203100
teenager, who also took a balaclava into school, had depression, an anxiety disorder and felt a sense of hopelessness at the time of the incident
Because locking him up for six years instead of offering treatment for his mental health problems is the ideal way to deal with the situation.
Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps the six year detention is for treatment?
well the sentencing judge would have background and (probably) psychiatry reports.Maybe I'm missing something.
Bonkers sentence.
Use if the word detained does make me think he's going down the forensic health care route rather than prison.
There's no doubt there would have been psychiatric reports in a case like this!
well the sentencing judge would have background and (probably) psychiatry reports.
+100
Stw does not
Bonkers? Why? What would you have done?
Clearly the lad is a danger to others and possibly himself. In a perfect world he would have the psychiatric treatment be needs with constant monitoring and possibly some medical help too until he grows into his confused mind and understands what
life is really all about.
But we all know the rescources dont exist for that so what other option did the judge have?
If it was my son I would reluctantly want him sent down rather than be the father of a murderer or a suicide
Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps the six year detention is for treatment?
He'll be in a forensic psychiatric unit. It may even by under the jurisdiction of the health service rather than a unit within a prison
Bonkers? Why? What would you have done?
He needs treatment, how can the [i]judge[/i] possibly know that it will take 6 years?
That's besides the point that the kid has not hurt anyone. He called the police on himself. GBH carried a minimum 3 year sentence, rape 5 years, both of which can ruin peoples lives indefinitely. Choudary got less that this for persuading others to go out and kill people. To my knowledge, he didn't call the police on himself.
The word detained is because of his age (so will not be going to a proper prison). He will get treatment wherever he is going. He may not require the intense level of psychiatric care that comes from being in a secure hospital - and locking a child in one of those would not necessarily be a great move either.
wrecker - he won't spend 6 yrs inside, he will spend at most 3 yrs then continue his rehabilitation in the commmunity. Anyone who takes a gun and 200 rounds into a school is clearly mentally unsound, the fact he didn't go through with it might actually suggest he is more "sound" than many.
He needs treatment, how can the judge possibly know that it will take 6 years?
It's your assumption the kid needs "treatment".
The judge will be in possession of all the facts and legal arguments. S/he will have reports coming out of her/his ears.
There will also be a decision - based on the evidence and application of the law to the circumstances - as to whether the boy was criminally insane, just unwell or neither.
There are also then the sentencing guidelines for an offence like this.
The judge is an expert in all of the above. That's why we appoint highly intelligent lawyers with vast experience to the judiciary.
Or do you not trust experts?
I don't trust the tariffs, no. I see no reason discussing the issue with the facts given, otherwise we wouldn't discuss any news item. It would all just end in "we don't have all of the information" because we never do. All motorist convictions, cycling cases, the lawyer who sued the MTB instructor etc would all just have ended in this way.
And perhaps they should.
It's pointless discussing cases without the information. What use would it be on the canoeists forum discussing wheel sizes?
To my knowledge, he didn't call the police on himself.
I thought he did.
The only point I would make is that this is yet another red flag about the growing hopelessness, anxiety and depression among the UK's youth.
As Polly says detained is what we call it when we imprison youths , ie youth detention . If the sentence was therapeutic it would be a hospital order with or without restriction. Simple unlawful possession of a firearm has a statutory minimum of 3 years for a youth (absent exceptional circumstances) so the judge appears to have come in at double that for the dangerous circumstances. Interesting that his starting point for sentence must have been significantly over 9 years to allow discounts for guilty plea , age ,remorse and personal mitigation.
Based on that report I'd be thinking of an appeal .
It's your assumption the kid needs "treatment".
It's yours that he doesn't.
Why have you put the word treatment in quotes?
This was local ish to me he did call the plod from a room inside the school. The details are of the case are under restrictions due to his age.
He did have 200 rounds and a dismantled shot gun that he knew how to reassemble. I hope he gets some support wherever he has been detained clearly in need of help and wherever he is it's better than the outcome of what could of been.
You do have to ask why he had access to that amount of shotgun shells even the local farmers would struggle to argue the need for that much stock
More worrying was the find of a semi auto rifle and a lot more ammo found in a grave yard in the summer
IANAL,J or any sort of expert, but I am an interested member of the public. I'm all for protecting the public but 6 years feels harsh for what amounts to teenage angst that (fortunately) didn't hurt anyone, which was seemingly due to the offender actually coming to his senses and reaching out for help. Possibly the actual owner of the shotgun should be answering some questions about how a minor came into possession of his gun.
Detained is just effectively meaning being held legally, it could be in psychiatric care.
You do have to ask why he had access to that amount of shotgun shells even the local farmers would struggle to argue the need for that much stock
He and his father were Skeet shooters, 200 rounds is nothing for 2 people to get through. Back when I had a gun I'd by 1000 at a time split with my father as it brought the cost way down. If we had a day on the clays I could fire 250+ myself. I've seen me use over 200 a day shooting pigeons.
No Drac it's a criminal case psychiatric care would be a hospital order which is indefinite ,or a community order with conditions which cannot be 6 years , detained is youth detention which is custody in a young offenders institution which is prison.
That might not be far away from the mandatory minimum sentencing.
Cheers Crankboy.\
Of course that does not mean who won't get support.