[Closed] Thatcher's successes?

I know of someone who gets £400 a week in taxi credits (is that the right word?). Both work, one fulltime (manual low-paid work probably on minimum wage). Same as us however we get zip. Maybe I should get mrshora to bang out a second kid and take a lower paid permanent job.

A much less controversial acheivement, albeit one in an area which is itself now riven with controversy, is that she was the first world leader to clearly articulate the global warming / climate change issue.

Being one of the few (only?) scientifically literate leaders of an industrialised nation at the time, she was well placed to take the political lead on climate change in giving speeches to the UN etc, which she did plenty of in the late 80s. This had an enormous impact at the time and the legacy speaks for itself. It wasn't all just talk on her behalf, either, as she funded the founding of a climate change centre which became the current UEA one which is a world-leading institution in this area (subject of the leaked emails a year or two back).

After she retired she backtracked a lot on her previous positions on climate change, as someone like her would obviously do given the political make-up of the subsequent global warming movement that grew up in the 90s.

Binners - if the tories had not sold off all the council houses then there would be no need to pay private landlords inflated sums in housing benefit. a lot of the time these are ex council properties.

Oh elfin your naivety amuses me greatly.
your posts on here do cheer me up.

council tax is not based on earnings.
my gripe is that in trying to get a business off the ground and employ people, it is deemed that by having premises you need to pay a tax for having a business, by not having a premise you can run a business and not pay a business tax.

I dont see that as fair.

Oh elfin your naivety amuses me greatly.
your posts on here do cheer me up.

council tax is not based on earnings.

TBF; you just said 'I pay too much tax'. Then you went on about CT.

I assumed you were on about income tax.

You might want to make yourself clearer.... 😉

I dont see that as fair.

Oh whell.

if the tories had not sold off all the council houses

Who would have paid for the up keep?

A much less controversial acheivement, albeit one in an area which is itself now riven with controversy, is that she was the first world leader to clearly articulate the global warming / climate change issue

there was TV interview where she rubbished the idea of catalytic converters as they would wipe out all the advances in lean burn engines that were being made at the time (and were just be introduced to placate the Germans whose cars all had inefficient engines).

sadly we got them 🙁

In the mid eighties I worked as a life model, if there happened to be a fine looking young lady in the class and I found myself getting distracted I used to imagine I had cold wet y-fronts on. If that didn't work I would imagine Maggie naked that always worked

That's a fair comment Elfin 🙂

I was playing golf at Edgebastion GC and saw Dennis Thatcher on the adjacent fairway.

It was the same day that Magie was coming out of hospital after having surgery on her 'hooked' hand.

That's a fair comment Elfin

I thought so to, although he mispelt 'well'.

maybe its a posh southern spelling im not used to in the north.

Binners - if the tories had not sold off all the council houses then there would be no need to pay private landlords inflated sums in housing benefit. a lot of the time these are ex council properties.

Oh... I'm well aware as to the cause of it. But a lot of the time they aren't ex-council properties at all Uncle Jezza. They're decent houses in decent areas

I just think its madness that people in full-time employment are now paying for jobless people to live in properties, and areas, where they themselves could never hope to afford. Its indefensible! And a complete perversion in the original purpose of the welfare state

maybe its a posh southern spelling im not used to in the north.

I think Elfin lives in East London, that doesn't count as posh unless you are comparing it to Croydon 🙂

😆

Don't tell Ernie that. He will be upset.

Digging another success out of Maggie's many-coloured legacy - her government's response to the AIDS crisis of the mid-80s was pretty steady, effective and didn't get into any sort of moralising agenda. I don't recall her specifically standing up and making enlightened speeches on the subject, but she has to take credit for the tone and actions of her government.

Contrast that with Reagan, who is still thought of as Satan by the US gay community to this day. He never once mentioned AIDS / HIV in a public speech at a time when there was significant uncertainty and misunderstanding about the disease. A single statement from him as US president would have had huge impact in de-mystifying HIV and reducing harrassment that gays in the US were enduring at the time.

He never once mentioned AIDS

At least he should have differentiated between Good Aids and Bad Aids.

Aye, I think you've got to give her credit for her environmental line- way ahead of its time. Not so sure about HIV/AIDS, my understanding is that she allowed the relevant professionals to set the agenda- I don't think you gain credit for passing an opportunity to be a scumbo.

Sancho - Member
industrial output fell 3% in her years to 25% of the economy, so not the devastation Labour are still claiming now, the devastation came in the 90's under Blair/Brown where industrial output fell more like 10% to just 12% of the economy.

We had a nice big thread on this just recently- a fall in manufacturing as a % of the economy isn't a problem in itself, since it can be caused by other sectors growing. I don't have figures to hand for these periods but recently it has been the case that manufacturing has both grown, and fallen as a %. So basically, these figures are without meaning.

TurnerGuy - Member
Encouraging the right to buy was a good thing - if you wanted proof just visit any estate where a good percentage of people had bought versus an estate where they hadn't. one would be nice and tidy and the other a sh1thole.

Cause or effect? If your council house was in a sink estate would you buy it? And if it was in a nice estate?

Selling council houses wasn't the problem of course- selling them and not replacing them was.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher[/url]

Increased NHS funding by 50% in real terms, increased number of GP's by 19% with a proportionate drop in size of GP lists.

don't hear about that one much, do you 😉

If your council house was in a sink estate would you buy it? And if it was in a nice estate?

You could see the effect within a single estate.

Houses that had been bought were being looked after, those that were not, were not.

Increased NHS funding by 50% in real terms

And yet the NHS actually got worse; waiting times increased, staff morale fell and hospitals closed. 😐

We do hear a lot about that. Y'know, the things that actually affected real people, rather than figures on bits of paper....

Between 1997 and 2010, the number of Doctors increased by 57%, and the number of Nurses by 31%.

The NHS was healthier under Labour. Simple fact.

don't hear about that one much, do you

Sic.

Did she not introduce the legal aid system? That seems pretty decent to me..
For balance though she stole my milk and made me pay to go to the dentist..

I have to say that for such a bitch cow evil nightmare she got re-elected a fair bit. Seems quite a few people thought she was onto something.

Increased NHS funding by 50% in real terms,

And yet the NHS actually got worse; waiting times increased, staff morale fell and hospitals closed.

Maybe she shouldn't have bothered then?
It's hardly Thatchers fault that the NHS mismanaged itself.

It's hardly Thatchers fault that the NHS mismanaged itself.

Erm, it is, as she was Prime Minister and ultimately responsible for the running of the nation's health service.

Or are you simply employing the Tory Defence of '[i]oh it's not our fault we absolve ourselves of any responsibility and blame[/i]'?

Teh area of the NHS I was in we had cuts of 3% every year for many years. We also saw the wholesale privatisation of elderly care.

The only reason the NHS budget rose was the rampant inflation of those years

'oh it's not our fault we absolve ourselves of any responsibility and blame'?

I thought that was the Labour defense?

Elfinsafety, PMs cant micro manage. To blame a PM for the NHS failing to do more with an increase in budget is a stretch to say the least...was she supposed to make an appearance on the wards everyday and organise the improvements herself?....is it too much to expect NHS managers to improve their services when they get a budget increase from the government?....or are you seriously suggesting they need their hands holding by somebody from central government?

The NHS was also incredibly well funded under the last Labour government, now i cant comment on all areas of the NHS but in the areas i work we all saw a nice pay rise and the patients saw....no change.
Brilliant....money in the wrong place as always.

Deviant - wrong on both counts - under the tories the NHS was cut in most areas. I hd 3% cuts every year in my dept. Under labour it improved dramatically by all measures except efficiency which is actually a really stupid measure because improvements in care show up as reduced efficiency and cutting waiting lists reduces efficiency.

So is this;

Increased NHS funding by 50% in real terms, increased number of GP's by 19% with a proportionate drop in size of GP lists.

Erm, it is, as she was Prime Minister and ultimately responsible for the running of the nation's health service.

This is not how the NHS is run, as well you know elf.

I thought that was the Labour defense?

No it's the Tory Defence.

Elfinsafety, PMs cant micro manage. To blame a PM for the NHS failing to do more with an increase in budget is a stretch to say the least...was she supposed to make an appearance on the wards everyday and organise the improvements herself?.

She appointed a Minister for Health, who's job it is to oversee the running of the health service. So, ultimately her responsibility.

So is this;

A load of bollocks then TJ?

Given that it's something Z-11 posted, there's a strong chance it is....

I just wonder what would have happened if she hadnt been in power, how shit the country would have been and what it would be like now.

Well, what we do know is how her policies changed British society and as a result put the country into a different kind of sh*t we have today.

She appointed a Minister for Health, who's job it is to oversee the running of the health service. So, ultimately her responsibility.

Well if you follow that to it's logical conclusion, it's the electorate's fault for electing her.

wrecker, exactly....TJ seems to want to ignore that statistic?!

From memory TJ works in mental health, as far as i'm aware its always been the poor relation in the health service....when i last did any mental health training i remember the lecturer telling us that 20% of the people coming through A&E have a mental illness of some kind and yet the mental health budget of the hospital was only 5%....this has been the same under both recent labour and Tory governments.

Just before Christmas my father was taken to A&E in an ambulance with chest pains, there is a history of vascular disease in the family and he had a stent a few years ago....he was admitted for 5 days and told there would be a follow up appointment with the consultant to discuss future treatment options....the letter arrived and the appointment is for March....unacceptable, so my mother rang the company they have private cover with and got an appointment with the same consultant later that week....yes TJ the NHS is just fine and dandy and it's improved care that leads to these delays i'm sure! 🙄

Deviant - I work in Elderly care.

as for your father that is exactly the issue that labour fixed and now has been undone by the tories already.

Yes the NHS improved dramaticly under the increased funding under Labour and already the cuts are biting

the letter arrived and the appointment is for March

Under Thatcher he'duv bin lucky to get an appointment this year...

If your father had had a heart attack, where would he have bin taken and treated?

Well if you follow that to it's logical conclusion, it's the electorate's fault for electing her.

Correct. We certainly got what you voted for.

so my mother rang the company they have private cover with and got an appointment with the same consultant later that week....yes TJ the NHS is just fine and dandy and it's improved care that leads to these delays i'm sure!

So what do you propose the NHS do?

[img] [/img]

[i]"Mais qu'est-ce qu'elle (Thatcher) veut de plus, cette mégère ? Mes couilles sur un plateau ?"[/i]

Jacques Chirac.

She successfully negociated a significant reduction in Britain's financial contribution to Europe with no loss of status. A lesson for Cameron. Mitterrand said she had Marilyn Monroe's mouth and Caligula's eyes.

Did she not introduce the legal aid system? That seems pretty decent to me..

so anyone changed their mind on here then as a result of this thread ?

Not sure why we discuss the same stuff over and over again

well totalitariainsm is all the rage I gather...

so Maggie won!

No, it was 30 years earlier

Under a Labour goverment, no less. The same Labour government who formed the National Health Service.....

spoomplim - Member

Is this Stoner's alter ego/trouble-making login?

Zulu-Eleven - Member
Increased NHS funding by 50% in real terms, increased number of GP's by 19% with a proportionate drop in size of GP lists.

Thatcher?

Labour increased it 102% from 1997-2010:

Is this Stoner's alter ego/trouble-making login?

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-year-new-forum-names#post-3303947 ]It's like hanging out with Miss Marple in here....[/url]

Zulu:

Increased NHS funding by 50% [u]in real term[/u]s,

TJ:

The only reason the NHS budget rose was the rampant [u]inflation[/u] of those years

Still having problems with the old comprehension test eh TJ? What do you think Real terms means?

Teh area of the NHS I was in we had cuts of 3% every year for many years

Surely anyone with a knowledge of the health system would agree that funnelling resources into Improved primary care, ie. GP's and community health services is the ideal way of enhancing health outcomes? Still, that doesn't fit the left wing agenda, does it TJ?

😉

CptJon:

Labour increased it 102% from 1997-2010:

But increased headcount of managers by 90% and management and admin costs by approx 450% 🙁

Source?

And was there no increase in manager or admin costs in the 1980s?

The only one I can still come up with was getting herself booted out in 1990 (mind you, she got her revenge by wishing John Major on us).

so anyone changed their mind on here then as a result of this thread ?

Everyone is missing the obvious:

The success of a record number of Oscar nominations for Meryl Strrep