[Closed] Thanks for the work, Mods

So ninfan trots out a playground insult and you threaten to give him a kicking, report him, and he gets a ban?

To be fair, in Ninfan's case it's one of cumulative damage. We rarely if ever issue a ban for a first offence, it's a last resort when warnings don't work. Frankly I'm amazed he's still got an account. (-:

I'll take Gogg any day over that

What's that when it's at home?

So ninfan trots out a playground insult and you threaten to give him a kicking, report him, and he gets a ban?

I wasn't going to raise it but km79 refers to another example of noticeable bias. Scotch I can live with. There are other examples.

[s]

I wasn't going to raise it but km79 refers to another example of noticeable bias.

I wasn't going to raise it but km79 refers to another example of noticeable bias. Scotch I can live with. There are other examples.

Can you both email us. We do try to genuinely look but we don't always see it the way others do.

Scotch as you see doesn't bother you but clearly it does Km79. It put me right off my sausages meat and breadcrumb encrusted boiled egg.

Do you mean Scotch?

Along with Jock and Sweaty, yes.

Edit: Scotch refers to something from Scotland (usually always by non-Scots), Scot refers to someone from Scotland. A similar example would be Oriental, something can be Oriental in origin but it would be considered offensive to call someone Oriental.

Gogg is what we in the South call North Wales people comes from the Welsh word for north.

Along with Jock and Sweaty, yes.

Sweaty I kind of see but again Jock not do but more so than Scoth.

Moderation is carried out by human beings who see the world through their own eyes and are therefore more likely to act against those who support the "other side" of the argument.

Moderation is carried out by human beings who make often tricky judgement calls in grey areas. It's not easy and we can (and do) make mistakes. When we do, we attempt to rectify that. Scotroutes, like a few others, you are very good at calling out issues and I for one am grateful for it.

I do try to be impartial, as I assume the others do too, and I try keep my "user" and "moderator" hats separate. How successful I am at that, I suppose you guys are the judge.

but using derogatory terms for Scottish people is mostly ok it would seem.

Also posters can lie but we cannot call them liars
I am not really sure what the point of this thread is we all know EVERY poster on here will not agree on everything so really what is the point doing this

Overall the moderation on here is pretty even handed and the place would be worse without them and they are never going to make us all happy when some of us are such utter bellends

Gogg is what we in the South call North Wales people comes from the Welsh word for north.

Every day's a school day. Is it generally held as being derogatory, or just slang?

Drac - Moderator

Along with Jock and Sweaty, yes.

Sweaty I kind of see but again Jock not do but more so than Scoth.

Are you Scottish?

Chinky is also fine so you know pick the race you want to abuse.

Apparently not even when talking about food 😳

Are you Scottish?

On my mother's side yes but for no I'm from Northumberland.

Gogg is what we in the South call North Wales people comes from the Welsh word for north.

Is not an insult though can be as indeed can northerner in english

Nah Goggs will happily call themselves that so it is not an insult IMHO its not even at CHAV levels as an insult...its pretty much like saying you are from Accy in terms of abuse.

THM certainly used the term sweaty to wind up certain scottish posters but he has stopped now

Mods are people in the bike "community" (largely, anyway - Cougar, I'm not so sure!)

Well. My OH has been chronically ill for a few years now, which curtailed her riding. I felt I bit of a shit going out on my own when she loved it and couldn't go, so I've not been out for ages. She's a bit better now so hopefully we should be able to rectify that this year

What's that when it's at home?

Also posters can lie but we cannot call them liars

This isn't a decision I agree with so I'm not best placed to comment, but I believe the issue here is one of group bullying rather than an individual comment in isolation.

My personal non-moderator opinion is that if you don't want to be called out for talking shit, don't talk shit. (-:

Apparently not even when talking about food

You're never going to win that one, matey. You know this, right? (-:

... but it was the "people", rather than the "biking" aspect I wasn't sure about

Hah! Shitehawk. (-:

And, thankyou.

Scotroutes, like a few others, you are very good at calling out issues and I for one am grateful for it.

Yup he does especially the terms toward Scottish but we don't always see it regardless, not easy to say if it is or just the reporter's opinion.

I do try to be impartial, as I assume the others do too, and I try keep my "user" and "moderator" hats separate

As always, tone can be lost on a forum and I do worry that what can be banter amongst folk who know each other outside of here could appear to be quite aggressive behaviour to folk who don't know the connections.

You're never going to win that one, matey. You know this, right? (-:

I know and you know what I've never actually used the term since my grilling so it seems they had the desired effect.

This isn't a decision I agree with so I'm not best placed to comment, but I believe the issue here is one of group bullying rather than an individual comment in isolation.

Yup it's about context.

Yup he does especially the terms toward Scottish but we don't always see it regardless, not easy to say if it is or just the reporter's opinion.

There is an easy way to find out. On your next visit use the terms in conversation and see what the reaction is.

I know and you know what I've never actually used the term since my grilling so it seems they had the desired effect.

Derogatory 😆

They call people from South Wales, Hwntws which means "over there"

I cant imagine ever pressing 'report post' because somebody insults me, my family or my nationality: it's like telling on somebody to a teacher, and I left school 30 years ago. It's a forum on the internet, what does everybody expect? Rather than report and remove posts, leaving them there helps me to learn who to ignore

When the mods do get involved, you've got to be prepared for them to be as wrong as they are right. There's no rule book and they making it up as they go along, relying on their moral compass (you know, just like the rest of us).

People arguing for the sake of arguing really need to have a word with themselves though: there are a few on here. Their lives must be really shit.

Drac I meant it only in jest - no intention to Mungify the thread- I think it has been done [ to death]and its blindingly obvious you ar enot a racist

I also dislike the use of gay - its never ever used in a positive way

Nothing has ever been described as gay as a GOOD thing and its derogatory but almost no one who uses it this way [ on here anyway] is actually homophobic - hence hwy you have such a hard job pleasing us all

There is an easy way to find out. On your next visit use the terms in conversation and see what the reaction is.

Living on the border I've a lot of contact and while I hate to say it friends who are Scottish. Now eliminate the friends as a laugh amongst friends is different I've not heard anyone complain about Scotch, Jock but I wouldn't use sweaty socks.

I am not really sure what the point of this thread is

I for one am very happy with the way things are modded although I do disagree with some. Although it can be entertaining to watch a bun-fight from a distance and even to be involved, the line between being fun and turning nasty is rather fine. So we tend to have fewer bun fights but the result is that some threads end up going interesting places where otherwise the might have collapsed. I like it, so thank you from me too

Drac I meant it only in jest - no intention to Mungify the thread- I think it has been done [ to death]and its blindingly obvious you ar enot a racist

I know.

Hwntws reminds me of a band.
Not to complicate things too much, there is a brand of Gogg called the Cofi, they're a bit backwards though, they still haven't finished building their castles yet! 😛 😀

It's a forum on the internet, what does everybody expect?

To treat people with respect.

but I believe the issue here is one of group bullying rather than an individual comment in isolation.

The problem is what else do you do when someone keeps posting googleable "facts" that are wrong- some of which are pretty basic facts

You either call them a moron or a liar or both

The more folk do it the more it shows its true so punishing them for saying the truth is an odd one

I accept it can be used to bully as well

DRac I will never ever mention it again- sorry.

Cofi, they're a bit backwards though, they still haven't finished building their castles yet!

Insult for folk from Caernarfon- bit like calling someone a dingle

So when do I get my moderators badge? I'm very moderate me. I'll moderate 'em!

DRac I will never ever mention it again- sorry.

It's a none issue.

The problem is what else do you do when someone keeps posting googleable "facts" that are wrong- some of which are pretty basic facts

What do you do when someone accuses people of being facists and nazis just because they are not uber left wing hand wringers?

JY- You are basically the left wing version of Jamba and Ninfan.

There is an easy way to find out. On your next visit use the terms in conversation and see what the reaction is.

Veering wildly off topic now, in as much as we were ever on topic, but,

I have a real problem with words in isolation and offence, I just find it a bit weird. Context is king. We have a Welsh friend who is oft referred to as an ovine fornicator by his friends (I don't because it's just a bit lazy), he takes it in good humour and has plenty to say in return; that doesn't mean it'd be appropriate to use the same terminology to someone you didn't know.

As evidenced on this very thread, different people see offence in different places. Is "Jock" offensive, for instance? I've honestly no idea, it sounds pretty harmless to me, but as an Englishman I certainly wouldn't use it ordering a bag of chips in Glasgow just in case. To my mind there's a difference between referring to someone as a Jock in a light-hearted and friendly way, and calling someone a ****ing Jock. Where I live, See You Next Tuesday is practically a term of endearment. Context.

My barbers is called Jocks 😆

That saved me a lot of typing Cougar.

My barbers is called Jocks

I've an old friend called Jock as was his late Dad. Well nicknamed I should say.

The nearest shop to my work is called Chalkies 🙂

You could just look it up.

Scotch - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scotch?s=t - Sometimes Offensive. of or relating to Scotland or its inhabitants; Scottish. (used with a plural verb) Sometimes Offensive. the inhabitants of Scotland; the Scots.

Jock - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jock?s=ts - British Informal. a Scottish soldier or a soldier in a Scottish regiment. Usually Offensive. a term used to refer to or address a Scot.

As with previous incarnations of this topic it has turned instead into a discussion on the sorts of things that are modded and why

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, if we can get a few shoulders de-chipped along the way. Better that than folk harbouring resentments.

So when do I get my moderators badge? I'm very moderate me. I'll moderate 'em!

I admire your optimism.

What do you do when someone accuses people of being facists and nazis just because they are not uber left wing hand wringers?

JY- You are basically the left wing version of Jamba and Ninfan.

And with my Moderator hat on for a second, if you two turn this into a squabble I'll ban the pair of you. Shush, adults are talking.

You could just look it up.

Scotch - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scotch?s=t - [b]Sometimes [/b]Offensive. of or relating to Scotland or its inhabitants; Scottish. (used with a plural verb) [b]Sometimes [/b]Offensive. the inhabitants of Scotland; the Scots.

Jock - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jock?s=ts - British Informal. a Scottish soldier or a soldier in a Scottish regiment. [b]Usually [/b]Offensive. a term used to refer to or address a Scot.

You see the problem yet? Anyone? Bueller?

I admire your optimism

That made me laugh out loud 😆

You see the problem yet? Anyone? Bueller?

Yes, you are biased.

. it's a reference to pushing poo through someone's letterbox. I can see how you might infer that it's "homophobic terminology" if you were really, really keen to see it that way. And Charlie, I know first hand exactly how keen you are to play one of your little cards, to cry -phobias and -isms where none exist.

Well, that's the point. The phobias and isms are as microagressions. The reference is 'pushing poo again' no mention of a letter box and 'poo pusher' or 'poo pushing' are very familiar terms of abuse. Also the bit about setting light was a later edit
However, it does not moderate the use of the poo pushing. The most insidious forms of these kinds abuse are exactly because they are veiled but both the abuser and abused know exactly what the intent is.
He did not refer to pushing poo through a letter box. He explicitly and deliberately used 'pushing poo' and he knows it was a reference to homosexuality. And if not, then it needs to be pointed out and removed.

Furthermore, in reference to you being on the receiving end, despite your protestations, I maintain you were at least essentialist if not racist, your refusal to consider this position was problematic. I mean really, questioning why some one might have a particular hobby, based on their race? Nothing to be gained from reopening that.

Finally, your dismissal of terms of abuse and the broad homophobia, misogyny and racism as my 'little cards' is also problematic, in case you didn't know

Charlie -I am usually sensitive to prejudice of any sort ( enough to get me labelled as professionally offended or some such nonsense by the right wing on here) and I simply don't see what you do at all and I don't understand what you mean by "essentialist"

Cougar - gies a job, I can do that!

Essentialism is reducing any group of people to simple set of usually sterotypical characteristics. For example finding it strange that an Asians person keep pigeons.

Poo pusher and poo pushing are terms of abuse.

And with my Moderator hat on for a second, if you two turn this into a squabble I'll ban the pair of you. Shush, adults are talking.

Shush, adults are talking.

Fairy snuff. I did have a quick google of the term. Ta

I still don't see the prejudice that you do tho. Perhaps just a different viewpoint and as I say I am usually very sensitive to it

Drac - Moderator

It's a forum on the internet, what does everybody expect?

To treat people with respect.

I agree, that's kind of my point (although you might be hard pushed to see it).

I accept you would want to remove offensive posts from the forum for all sorts of reasons, but I've never understood why these forums can't write a simple code so that if, for example, five users across the site press 'report post' on any particular post it auto-hides it.

It would very quickly force those who continually troll to give up if the general population didn't want to see the posts. Mods seem to have to explain their actions reasonably often, this would stop that.

Could we not moderate ourselves in this way, or is it a terrible idea?

Which prejudice do you mean?

The two that stick in mind, was Drac and his insistence on using the term Chinky, which admittedly he no longer does on here and Cougar on 'is there any reason an Asian would keep pigeons'

five users across the site press 'report post' on any particular post it auto-hides it.

That might just encourage bullying

I didn't see the Drac one - "chinky" is a term that used to be in common usage but no longer is and if he no longer uses it then perhaps he has learned

As for the Asians / pigeon one I see no prejudice. I read the thread and amply didn't see it as prejudice just as a lack of knowledge and the answers gave him the knowledge.

Interesting that you saw this as prejudice and I didn't..

Yes, you are biased.

Obvs.

The reference is 'pushing poo again' no mention of a letter box and 'poo pusher' or 'poo pushing' are very familiar terms of abuse.

Out of context, yes, you're absolutely right. But read up a couple of posts to the one he was replying to.

Furthermore, in reference to you being on the receiving end, despite your protestations, I maintain you were at least essentialist if not racist, your refusal to consider this position was problematic.

I've no idea what "essentialist" is supposed to mean, so I can't answer that.

I mean really, questioning why some one might have a particular hobby, based on their race?

The question you're referring to was one where I asked, albeit clumsily, was whether there was any cultural significance to a neighbours actions that I may have been previously unaware of. This, in your eyes, seemingly makes me a racist despite my repeated attempts on that thread to clarify what I was trying to ask. We're just going to have to agree to differ here I'm afraid.

Nothing to be gained from reopening that.

So why did you? How odd.

Finally, your dismissal of terms of abuse and the broad homophobia, misogyny and racism as my 'little cards' is also problematic, in case you didn't know

It is, but probably not for the reasons you think. When it comes to my views on other demographics I'm the most liberal person you'd ever hope to meet. I've a good friend who thinks he's a wolf, for crying out loud. My "dismissal" is not your ability to call people out, which is a good thing, but rather your dogged determination to latch on to any small thing that you've twisted to suit your own agenda and not let it go.

Anyway, I'm going to reply to the both of us with the same advice I gave to Gobuchul and Junkyard - if you turn this into a squabble I'll ban us both. Not because I'm hiding behind a badge, but because I don't want to derail what is otherwise a constructive discussion.

five users across the site press 'report post' on any particular post it auto-hides it.

The problem is and i dislike report post for this is you ONLY give a voice to those who object How many thousand of others read it it and did not care?

Its a bit like giving "snowflakes" or "MAry whitehouse types " the power to stop the show/ruin the forum when their standards are nothing like the norms of the society/forum

Cougar - give me a ban for having been offensive. At least it'll provide closure.

Edit: does the new PM function still work when banned?

When it comes to my views on other demographics I'm the most liberal person you'd ever hope to meet.

PS I note you were able to reply and yet i ALONE was not.... you always pick on someone * you biased bunch

* Never sure how much my sarcasm is just detected as sarcasm rather than actual whinging I need a sarcastica font

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/scotch

I did look it up.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/jock

That said.

As for the Asians / pigeon one I see no prejudice.

Prejudice, in its common usage may be the wring term.

But its not so different from saying 'saw a black guy on bike today, thought it was strange,is their something in their culture about riding bikes?'

I've never understood why these forums can't write a simple code so that if, for example, five users across the site press 'report post' on any particular post it auto-hides it.

Five reports on a single post would be incredibly rare. Three would be unusually high (though perhaps that's in part because we're usually pretty quick to respond). Multiple reports is basically the exclusive domain of 4am spam posts when we're all in bed.

I didn't see the Drac one - "chinky" is a term that used to be in common usage but no longer is and if he no longer uses it then perhaps he has learned

Without wanting to start it again. It was about food not people from China.

It's easier to deny someone the power to offend you..than it is getting someone to treat you with respect.

I would like to know how much of the 'moderation' is self moderating.
Ie.- Mid thread a debate turns spiteful and agrressive as the tone or nuance of a conversation is mis-understood and the playground insults and thinly veiled threats commence .
I have reported posts like these as they add nothing to the forum.
Do these result in a 'heads up' to the mods , who delete or warn if deemed neccesary?

Black folk are under represented in outdoor pursuits tho 😉

He did not refer to pushing poo through a letter box. He explicitly and deliberately used 'pushing poo' and he knows it was a reference to homosexuality. And if not, then it needs to be pointed out and removed.

I suggest you read the posts again as you're wrong, again.

Edit: does the new PM function still work when banned?

I would expect (hope) that you need to be logged in to send a message, so I'd guess not. Good question though.

Do these result in a 'heads up' to the mods , who delete or warn if deemed neccesary?

Essentially, yes. Any reported posts are sent as an email to all of us; we get the text you enter, the names of the reporter and reportee, and a link to the offending post.

Drac - I knew that and its a term for Chinese food no longer considered polite to say.

Mods: when you delete posts, do you use a scalpel or an elephant-gun? One of my posts was deleted recently. One of you popped up and explained that "the 'lewd' posts had been deleted". Now, whilst my post was most likely both wise and entertaining - I'm pretty certain it wasn't 'lewd'. However the post before mine certainly was... Lewder than Ludatheque Ludavine.

Drac - I knew that and its a term for Chinese food no longer considered polite to say.

So do I now. 😳

Ie.- Mid thread a debate turns spiteful and agrressive as the tone or nuance of a conversation is mis-understood and the playground insults and thinly veiled threats commence .

I suggest you read the posts again as you're wrong, again.

I'm aware of what he said.

Pushing poo again? Is a strange sentence construction in this context.

Scotroutes, why don't you be honest here and explain your intent. Joke or not

Mods: when you delete posts, do you use a scalpel or an elephant-gun? One of my posts was deleted recently. One of you popped up and explained that "the 'lewd' posts had been deleted". Now, whilst my post was most likely both wise and entertaining - I'm pretty certain it wasn't 'lewd'. However the post before mine certainly was... Lewder than Ludatheque Ludavine.

I think yours was culled as others were deleted and your post no longer made sense.

There would be no posts on the politics threads

The problem is and i dislike report post for this is you ONLY give a voice to those who object How many thousand of others read it it and did not care?

Its a bit like giving "snowflakes" or "MAry whitehouse types " the power to stop the show/ruin the forum when their standards are nothing like the norms of the society/forum

I can see how it could end badly if people used it to try and hide opinions they didn't like, as opposed to something that is deliberately offensive or argumentative, but I don't think the majority of people would use it like that.

CharlieMungus - Member

five users across the site press 'report post' on any particular post it auto-hides it.

That might just encourage bullying

Maybe, but I really don't think there are many bullying types on the forum...

Cougar - Moderator

Edit: does the new PM function still work when banned?

I would expect (hope) that you need to be logged in to send a message, so I'd guess not. Good question though.

I would expect (hope) that you need to be logged in to send a message, so I'd guess not. Good question though

You can still post on articles whilst banned from the forum so I'd be surprised if you couldn't send PMs

Pushing poo again? Is a strange sentence construction in this context.

In replying to someone who talked about pushing poo through a letter box and suggesting they light it first, no not strange at all.

One of my posts was deleted recently. One of you popped up and explained that "the 'lewd' posts had been deleted". Now, whilst my post was most likely both wise and entertaining - I'm pretty certain it wasn't 'lewd'. However the post before mine certainly was... Lewder than Ludatheque Ludavine.

I think that was me. It sticks in my mind because the complaint was that the post was "lude", though I don't remember the exact post (and can't seem to find it now). Maybe I deleted the wrong one? Mia culpa if so.