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As above,
In need of a 2 or 3 man tent that can handle Scottish and Alpine rain.
Have tried a few over the years, all of which have succumbed to the elements during a night long downpour.
Anyone have any recommendations?
Weight not an issue.
Ta
Hilleberg Stiaka.
Expensive mind.
Terra nova Quasar, been out in some horrible conditions without any problems.
I have a vango mirage 200 thats remained bone dry in rain in thunderstorm level downpours.
Its a cosy 2man but they do. A 300 too..
Have a look at Lightwave tents
UK brand, great quality
Second vote for the Terra Nova Quasar. Had mine for over 10 years and still going strong. Has been used in some horrendous conditions, usually in winter, and never let me down. Has porches at both ends for kit storage and cooking.
Only a two man tent though, I think you would struggle to get three in.
Tera Nova or Macpac in my book altho you pay for the privilege. Both make mainly high mountain tents, so might be a bit overkill for your needs. You could just try using a seam sealer with cheaper more standard tent brand ie vango, vaude etc
My lightwave tent has worked well. The only issue with mine is that the inner needs to be pitched first, which can be an pain if the tent needs to go up when it is raining. I think the newer lightwave tents allow for the fly to be pitched first. The XT versions also have a large vestibule that is handy if you have bikes with you.
Can recommend Vango Halo 200. Use it as a low level basecamp. Have survived some mental Cornish wind and rain on successive nights and days. 3 pole dome system makes it very rigid compared to other tents I've tried. It's also taut when pitched correctly (can be pitched in one with innrer already attached) Having zips and porches each side also means I can get in and out away from the prevailing squalls by choosing the downwind exit (same thing with cooking) . It's suprisingly roomy, never felt claustrophobic even after being rainbound for successive days with a kindle and radio for company.
I know that no tent is perfect but it's the nearest I've found for the purpose (if I spent double would look for the same features but lose a kilo, moon on a stick style) So only downside I can think of is it's too heavy for solo backpacking...doable if two share the weight by splitting contents.
MacPac have been good for us in torrential rain over prolonged periods.
[url= http://maceachain.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/vango-halo-200.html ]Halo 200 review - (compared to Staika)[/url]
If money was no object I'd probably be looking at a Staika or Jannu
I'll be the STW cliche and offer my own as recommendations (but only because they have been subjected to some pretty grim weather!)
As above, the Terra Nova Quasar is the go to tent for shit weather. It's expensive and heavy though. I've got the Super Quasar which is the same tent but with a bit more room, which is well worth it if you're going to spend lots of time in it. It's £600 and about 4.5kg...but have a look on ebay, you could find a bargain. These tents age well. I've had it in some silly places in some questionable weather and honestly haven't once been concerned about it's robustness.
Also, as Elshalimo suggested, Lightwave make excellent kit. I was looking for a lighter 4 season tent without spending bonkers money (easier said than done) to use when the Quasar just wasn't practical (ie multi day stuff on mountains in winter). I settled on the T2 Ultra. Which is a 4 season tent weighing in at 2kg. I had been a bit anxious to use the Lightwave where failure would be really problematic (bad weather up high in winter) because it just feels so flimsy compared to the Quasar. But, last year we were pitched up at Reiff in some unbelievable winds and it coped far better than I expected, so now we use it for all but the worst predicted weather. I also spent 2 full days stuck in it during a trip when it didn't stop pissing it down the entire time and we didn't have any problem with leaking.
Given that you've said weight isn't an issue, I don't think you can go far wrong with a Quasar. If you think you'll be spending much time in it, or will have a reasonable amount of gear...get the Super Quasar.
Pitching it really well is as important as spending a fortune.
Choosing where to pitch, even on 'flat' site is also key to avoid puddles.
I have sprayed the inners of my tents with Nikwax proof to help with stray drips.
Plastic bag inside the tent is better that footprint under in keeping gear dry in really wet conditions.
Ventilate, Ventilate, Ventilate. Lots of wet in tents is condensation. Buy a tent with good ventilation - one of the things that let's some of the tents listed above down.
Now I have had a coffee I might be more coherent.
My mirage is the older model which has a smaller porch than the currdnt one.
Three poles mean the tent is freestanding with the exception of the porch which does required a guy line. The outer is taught with no wrinkes or anything and can be adjusted with various straps. The porch has an entrance on both sides and i discovered last weekend has a nice pocket to role it completely away.
It is small though it comfy enough for me af 5'8 and a 5'4 lady friend to sleep and situp just! To be fair the gap between the inner Nd outer is pretty big so the odd brush against the inner is not a bother. The porch0 is small and the nature of the doorwayz mean you have to be careful opeing it or you get a wet neck.
Its lightish though 2.9 all is fine between 2 and it really is weather proof straight out the bag with all seams sealed contraries the snobbery above!
Halo looks good too for something slightly bigger.
Edit to add on Matts comments, its a front loader and low at the back any slight incline eeds to be considered although its possible to sleep with feet at the door its a pain to tranistion. Ventilation is pretty good with ve ts that prop open or hang open and doors that can be opened from the top a bit to provide airflow which brings me to the one thing I would change immediately, the door to the inner had a small section that unzipps to reveal a bugnet its small I wohld like the whole door to have a bug net especially as the porch can be totally packed away it would be a lovely view.
I bought an ex-display Terra Nova Trisar about 15 years ago.
It has been solid and completely waterproof, even in heavy Scottish rain.
They don't make it anymore but the sister company Wild Country do an updated version.
It's described as a 3 season which pretty much covers the temperatures that the vast majority of people would camp in.
If you want something for camping higher up or for winter time get a Terra Nova Quasar.
forgot to say - There are still a (very) few Vango Chinooks knocking about for sale.
I never got wet in my TNF tadpole despite monsoon like Lake District wild camping weeks. Might be a touch small if you're after 2/3 man. Tadpole is comfy for 1 and ok for short trips with 2.
Just to reiterate what matt says. Ventilation is absolutely essential, you should have the doors as open as is practical and not block any draft under the tent fly. What you've succumbed to with previous tents might just as likely be condensation rather than rain getting in (unless you bought some real cheap tat).
Mountain Hardwear Trango - End of Thread.
MacPac +1
I'll make two recommendations here. One down the route of 'suggest what you have' and the other down the 'i wish I had'.
Firstly, Terra Nova Voyager XL. Got one, fantastic bit of kit. Rock solid, stacks of space. Love it to bits.
The seconds is the only tent I would currently replace it with… Mountain Hardwear Trango. My dad has one and I've never seen such a solid tent. It'll handle absolutely anything that can be thrown at it, and still have plenty to give. If you have the budget, and truly aren't bothered by weight, don't even think twice about it. Just go and buy one.
Lots of very useful input!
Not necessarily what I was expecting on STW 🙂
Thanks for all the suggestions so far, much appreciated.
Do like the look of the MH Trango...
The only thing that I would warn about geodistic tents that pitch like MH Trango and similar, is that in my experience, if you have to pitch it in the rain, which you often do in this country, you can end up with the inside of your tent soaking wet before you even finish pitching it. Just a thought and the reason why I've never bought this type, there are lots of positives with them tho and some manufacturers might have found a solution now. The macpac olympus tents pitch everything at once so your inner never gets wet and it takes only a couple of minutes to pitch the macpac, the geodistic ones take a fair bit longer. The macpac is also dead easy for one person to put up.
Here's the thing with the MH Trango - the inner is pretty bloody waterproof too. I've pitched it in many rainstorms and never has it been wet in the inside. Mine is around 15 years old now.
If the inner of the Trango is waterproof then you'd be soaked from condensation.
One of the characteristics of a mountain tent, the solid walls on the inner, makes it more prone to condensation. By adding waterproofing to it, you'd get wet every time you used it unless it was breezy and you had the doors open
If the inner of the Trango is waterproof then you'd be soaked from condensation.
Condensation is not an issue. I did not say that it was waterproof, I said it was pretty bloody waterproof. The qualifier makes all the difference.
Waterproofness shouldn't be an issue at all, unless you're talking about real cheapies. Certainly all of the good brands should be properly waterproof.
But, and this is the same but as waterproof jackets, that doesn't mean you won't find some water in there anyway, for the same sort of reasons: condensation, bringing it in with you when you get in and out in your wet kit, and maybe rain being blown up under the fly if conditions are conspiring against you and where you've pitched it.
FWIW I've a Macpac and a Terra Nova and have had no problems with waterproofing in either (well, Macpac has some actual holes in the fly now after about 15 years). Wouldn't really be a factor if I were shopping for a new one now, I'd just assume they're all waterproof.
Have a look at the Vango F10 range, I have owned the Spindrift and it was utterly bombproof, also pitches outer tent first. I still have a Nitro 200+ and it is ace. I also had an MH Trango 3 for nearly ten years and it was also utterly solid, UV got it in the end.
Since you said weight isn't important, best to find a big tent that has a very large gap between inner and outer.
Here's the thing with the MH Trango - the inner is pretty bloody waterproof too. I've pitched it in many rainstorms and never has it been wet in the inside. Mine is around 15 years old now.
This is my experience of them too, they'll hold out for plenty of time to get the tent pitched in the rain. Same goes for the TN Voyager XL that I recommended as another option to the Trango.
With a bit of practice you can get either of them up pretty quickly too, particularly if you don't peg them down initially and just focus on getting the outer on. Once the outer is over you can take all night if you need to.
Here's a statistic for you, in the last 2 years I've had 2 Vangos,one Wild Country and a Lightwave and every one has been returned under warranty. Prior to that I had the same Vango for 15 years. Quality aint what it used to be.
Indeed, the last tent to fail the alpine rains was a wild country too.
Nothing to do with condensation, just leaked like a sieve in heavy rain. Granted is wasn't a £600 super tent, but expensive enough that I expected more.
Not pleasant being woken up by rain dripping on your head at 3am...
Think you need a Explorer geodesic tent
I have a Lightwave G20 that I cannot recommend enough. It's totally bomber. I never have any condensation issues, even in deep soggy/snowy winter, it is solid in windy cliff top gales, and it doesn't leak. I've had mine years now, used everywhere from Spanish mountaintops, Forestry Commission car parks, to UK beaches and fells.
[url= http://www.snowandrock.com/expedition-tents/camping/fcp-category/list ]Explorer Tents[/url]
The Lightwaves look amazing.
MH Trango here too. A 3.1 A superb tent with an extended porch allowing for indoors cooking (if you are careful of course). I have only one concern, which is that the side panels are quite large and in a side wind do make contact with the inner. But, it's never actually caused a problem and I've sat sat out some horrible weather in it. The Quasar solution of great big foam blocks seems a bit Heath Robinson but I guess it works.
Oh I have a Lightwave Ion too. Beautifully made, light and strong. But if weight isn't an issue go for space.
If I could justify another tent just for the hell of it, it would without doubt be a Hilleberg.
Anyone have any experience of the Marmot Grid Plus?
Have a look at Exped tents. We've got the Andromeda which is very spacious for 2 / cosy for 3. They are approaching Hilleberg prices / quality.
Macpac - on my second Minaret - designed for Kiwi conditions, work great in the UK, proper groundsheets, tough as... Or Hilleberg. I had some bad experiences with a mate's leaking Quasar groundsheet, but of course that may have been a one-off.
Personally I prefer tents that pitch as a unit rather than fly or inner first, much easier to keep them dry when setting up in proper wet conditions.
A little different to most peoples suggestions but what about Force10 tents?. I have a "Classic cotton" and I'd happily use it anywhere I could carry it. It's not light by any means though so best used from the car.
Have tried a few over the years, all of which have succumbed to the elements during a night long downpour.
As above, any tent beyond a cheapo £50 SHOULD be waterproof if you've done it right. I've only ever had three tent leaks:
1) £50 tent from mid 90s, it rained so hard water splashed up from the ground at the foot of the fly and got the bottom of the inner wet - even then the fabric did not leak. In our cotton caravan awning rain was being smashed through the fabric in a fine mist by the force of it.
2) Holes in the tent caused by a broken gas lantern - half a dozen holes in the fly only admitted a few drops of water.
3) Water leaking in from water puddling under the groundsheet - when I lifted it up to the light it was full of thousands of tiny holes, from many nights on rough dirt/gravel without a footprint.
Sometimes the odd drip from condensation too. I'd be very surprised if your previous tents have actually leaked rain in.
Anyone have any experience of the Marmot Grid Plus?
I'm on my second Marmot tent, they are awesome.
what about Force10 tents?
Shite from start to finish, unless you are an outdoor centre and need it to withstand hamfisted treatment for 30 years. Actually i should add that to the list - that one did just leak, like a sieve.
Anyone have any experience of the Marmot Grid Plus?
I bought one a few weeks ago. I'll admit a big factor was a huge discount at Cotswold but it seemed to tick all the boxes. Although there's probably a reason it was discounted I assume that was because Marmot are less well known in the UK for tents. I was hoping to get more tent for my money than something at RRP and it seems to have lots of features (only time will tell about build quality).
Only used it once but so far I can say:
+ lots of the sorts of features you get on high end tents such as tensioning straps so you don't need to keep re-pegging
+ it pitches all in one (if you packed it that way) and doesn't need guys to stand up so it goes up very fast despite the poles looking complicated at first glance
+ good sized porch - you won't fit a bike in but plenty of space to cook or stash other kit
+ lots of vents
+ feels very robust though it's not been tested properly yet
- only one entrance
- inner is not generous for two, especially at the foot end (sleeping mats would overlap and you won't get a double air mattress in)
- good luck finding a footprint (I need to get round to cutting down a cheap groundsheet)
- why do manufacturers insist on supplying a bag that makes re-packing the tent some sort of twisted 3d spatial skills test?
inner is not generous for two, especially at the foot end (sleeping mats would overlap and you won't get a double air mattress in)
+1
I spent 4 nights in one last year and it always featured highly on my list of "wants"...but i was glad to get out of it at the end of the trip. Pretty cramped for 2 people if you need to get changed in it or spend any time in it IMO.
Well built though and very well suited for UK conditions, especially if you just need somewhere to sleep.
Vango Omega 350. Not particularly expensive, strong and plenty of room for two.
good luck finding a footprint (I need to get round to cutting down a cheap groundsheet)
You might try getting one made. I had the groundsheet replaced in my Westwind for something silly like £30 from Scottish Mountain Gear, so I suspect they could make one, probably in a variety of grades, for a sensible price.
molgrips - thanks for the tip, will check them out tonight
peterfile - I read the grid plus was specifically aimed at wet European conditions and has a more robust inner than Marmot's other tents for this reason
Noticed a few folks recommending Lightwaves so clearly they've had good experiences.
However, I've just returned one (G20 Trek Geodesic) it being by far and away the worst tent I've ever used. Leaky, impossible to pitch right and holes appearing at seams after 3 weeks of use. A quick google and some input from other users suggests that I'm not alone in this.
There being a number of both good and poor experiences suggests to me that QC or perhaps a lack of testing of certain models could be at the root of it. It's a shame as the basic design is good.
More useful info, just been perusing the Lightwave G20.
As the search continues my budget and 'wants' are warping! Now also looking for 4 season hardiness for some winter adventures!
Still like the Trango!
Grid plus sale price appeals! Any of you guys been out in one in winter?
Thinking short trips, couple of nights, cram 2 of us in there.
Dont know if you're interested in 2nd hand. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mountain-Hardware-Trango-3-1-High-Altitude-Expedition-Tent-/261558752262?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_HikingCamping_Tents_JN&hash=item3ce61dd406 it's the 3 man version though.
Grid plus sale price appeals! Any of you guys been out in one in winter?Thinking short trips, couple of nights, cram 2 of us in there.
I've only been out in one in summer...but IMO you'd get cabin fever in winter.
I do most of my camping in winter and even a spacious 2/3 man can get a bit cramped after you add in winter kit and the fact that you're in it from 4pm until 8am. From memory, 2 people won't be able to sit up straight at the same time, which is a deal breaker for me.
Two sleeping mats, two winter bags and winter clothing is going to pretty much consume most of the inner of the tent. If the weather is bad, you're cooking in it, eating in it, sitting in it, getting changed in it, sorting out kit in it and sleeping in it for 14+ hours of darkness.
Yep, peterfile, that!
Least it would be warm 🙂
Really trying to squeeze two tents out of one, want something to go for lone wanderings in summer, but still do trips with a.n.other in winter.
Probably asking too much!
Although with enough single malt sitting up wont be an option anyway 😉
@wanmankylung: Was just outbid on a trango 3.1 the other day!
Cheers
Really trying to squeeze two tents out of one, want something to go for lone wanderings in summer, but still do trips with a.n.other in winter.
In that case, you want a Tarptent [url= http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html ]Scarp 2[/url], with crossing poles and a solid inner.
1.7kg in summer mode, a wee bit heavier in winter mode.
Good luck finding one in the UK though 🙂
So what have you bought or tried ?
Still bobbing around the North Sea i'm afraid so no fettling of fancy tents yet.
But, think i'm sold on the Trango 2. Apart from going up inner 1st there don't seem to be too many bad reviews. It's a wee bit on the heavy side for solo trips, but mostly I'll be with someone else and/or camping out the car, so not much of an issue for most of my needs. On the occasional solo trip i'll not be going too far anyway so it'll still work.
The Hilleberg kit looks great and has fantastic reviews, but can't really justify spending £700-800 for the amount of use it will get.
I've a Colman about 8 years old and never had any issues £126.00 new. Too heavy for backpacking but ideal to throw in the car 🙂