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I would not have agreed to this as, at the moment, I believe they limit choice of supplier as there doesn’t seem to be a common standard for smart meters
Your belief is incorrect.
There are basically two forms of smart meter, SMETS1 and (surprise!) SMETS2.
The older SMETS1 are the ones tied to the provider. If you subsequently change providers, nothing happens other than the 'smart' bit will probably stop working. They don't limit anything.
The newer SMETS2 meters use a SIM card and are standardised across providers, so you can change provider and keep the smarts.
Most people change suppliers once a year so if the tennants want smart metres each time that’s potentially a new box a year until meters get standardized.
Energy UK's most recent round-up says:
'During quarter 1 of 2019, 4.9 percent of the total customer base in the Electricity market switched. For gas, over the same time period 4.8 per cent of customers switched'
So extrapolating from that, it seems unlikely that 'most people change suppliers once a year'.
Also, they've been begun rolling out second generation smart meters which are transferrable between suppliers, so the dystopian fantasy of 'most people' swapping a smart meter once a year is fading fast. It's even possible, though unlikely, that the OPs tenant actually had a second gen meter fitted. Worth checking anyway even though only around 500,000 have apparently been installed, any which have been fitted after 15 March 2019 should be second generation, SMETS2 meters. Or something like that. Dependent on infrastructure...
INtersting BWD, I'm sure I'd read different stats on switching recently. Also I didn't know that SMETS2 were around already.
INtersting BWD, I’m sure I’d read different stats on switching recently. Also I didn’t know that SMETS2 were around already.
I may have got it wrong, but this is the gov.uk source (below). The trend does seem to be towards more frequent switching, but there are a fair few news stories saying that even though numbers are rising, a significant proportion of energy customers are still on basic, expensive tariffs because of inertia.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/quarterly-domestic-energy-switching-statistics
a significant proportion of energy customers are still on basic, expensive tariffs because of inertia.
This is absolutely the case, albeit the downsides are lessened by the price cap. If I remember I'll search out the stats I'm thinking of...here we go its a CAB/Ofgem report. SAmpled 2,900 customers (quite mixed) and found 18% have in the last year.
Possibly not statistically accurate/significant enough to pro-rate to the entire population.
I didn’t know that SMETS2 were around already.
Scottish Power have been hounding me to get a smart meter for months and I've been roundly ignoring them. But I got an email from them a couple of weeks back going "hey, we've got the new meters now!" so they are being rolled out now it would seem, presumably entirely dependent on your provider.
They probably did it to try and save money as they'd already had to sell their children into prostitution to pay their slum landlord.
Has anyone bummed TJ yet? and did you wear lid?.
Folk who own property they don’t live in deserve all they get
Not sure if you are serious here..but I kinda agree. No sympathy for btl land lords whatsoever. If you are prepared to exploit the housing market and keep other folks off the property ladder then the pay off is folk may not treat your property in the fashion you would like.
Do you have to keep it?
Had mine removed when I bought a house.
You need to take a chill pill.
At least they’re paying, haven’t destroyed your flat or have squatters.
If you are prepared to exploit the housing market and keep other folks off the property ladder
Or conversely: provide rentable housing for people that either cannot afford a mortgage or don't want to be tied to one.
Or conversely: provide rentable housing for people that either cannot afford a mortgage or don’t want to be tied to one.
It's a vicious circle isn't it. Individual landlords might be perfectly nice people and it is a needed service, but every well off person buying property for extra income is making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
Not something that will ever be fixed by berating forum members, as fun as that is.
‘During quarter 1 of 2019, 4.9 percent of the total customer base in the Electricity market switched. For gas, over the same time period 4.8 per cent of customers switched’
This is absolutely the case, albeit the downsides are lessened by the price cap. If I remember I’ll search out the stats I’m thinking of…here we go its a CAB/Ofgem report. SAmpled 2,900 customers (quite mixed) and found 18% have in the last year.
Possibly not statistically accurate/significant enough to pro-rate to the entire population.
Those look consistent so I was deffo wrong. Most people don't. Crazy.
making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is "poor" is a bit outdated I think.
I was 32 before I bought my first house. Prior to that I rented. It let me stay in much nicer accommodation than I could afford to pay a monthly mortgage for (e.g. a nice 3 bed flat in Bruntsfield, Edinburgh with a garage) and six month terms meant we were free to easily move around the country following our careers.
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is “poor” is a bit outdated I think.
I think it’s more a case of poor people have no other option. It is worse nowadays as the rental market is a different beast to what it used to be. I could only ever afford to rent shit holes. My mortgage for a nice house is about £200 less than renting something similar. Kinda the opposite of what you described.
And the vicious circle continues to like, spin, man
It’s a vicious circle isn’t it. Individual landlords might be perfectly nice people and it is a needed service, but every well off person buying property for extra income is making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
...don't forget people who buy shares - they're making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack.
What about your local LBS? Shouldn't they give up their business so a poor person can run a business on the same site? Every LBS is making it harder for poorer people to run a shop of their own.
let us know how you got on with the dog plz op.
I own a flat which I used to live in, but now rent it out to a chap with a bearded dragon (which I think is a lizard).
I live in a rented house whilst renting out my flat
Is that ok? Do the two cancel each other out - or should I go and self flagellate? Do I have to bum the lizard at all?
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is “poor” is a bit outdated I think.
Didn't say that. Renting is a necessary and useful part of the housing market but more and more people are being locked into it as their only option - which makes it more appealing to buy to let for those who can.
don’t forget people who buy shares – they’re making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack
I think this is a straw man but I'm not attacking landlords so much as advocating for widespread communist revolution.
The UK housing market is totally distorted and concentrates money in the hands of those who have it. From sold off council houses now being let at twice council rates to unaffordable housing stock in many cities.
BTL is a disgraceful way to run a countries housing stock and leads to many issues
Before the accusations of hypocrisy its a long story how we ended up with an extra flat but it was not bought to let. It was bought to live in. We cannot sell because of ongoing litigation.
We do try our best to be good landlords remembering that its our flat but someone else home
I've a smart meter, and I rent, I didn't think twice about asking my landlord, as 1. It's non of his business and 2 the meter it's attached to doesn't belong to him.
I just read TJ's post and agreed with it...do I have to bum him because quite frankly I'd rather not or burn his lizard ( the preferred option but still not ideal)?
I just read TJ’s post and agreed with it…do I have to bum him because quite frankly I’d rather not or burn his lizard ( the preferred option but still not ideal)?
What kind of lizard? Is it big enough to bum?
Hangf on a mo - its not my lizard. I have never even met it. These two threads about rentals are getting very weird!
David Icke has assured me that TJ actually is a lizard, so I’m definitely not bumming him
Or his Guinea pig
the meter it’s attached to doesn’t belong to him.
The new meter is attached to the old meter?
outofbreath
Member
…don’t forget people who buy shares – they’re making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack.
Isn't that the exact opposite of how shares work? They allow business people with no money to go to rich people with no business ideas* and ask for money in order to grow their business?
Whereas in almost all cases the mortgage on a property is quite a lot less than the rent. Which in a perfect market is the cost of the convenience of being able to live somewhere with no ties. In the distorted market we do have it ties up supply. Most tenants would probably be quite happy paying ~1/3 less and actually acquiring equity rather than paying 50% more and having nothing spare to save for a deposit.
*not necessarily true, but the gist of shares is you make less money than if you could have hypothetically done the business yourself but instead you buy it and have someone else run it for you, thus allowing you to do things like own shares in several business and spread the risk rather than trying to be the director of a bank and oil company and an electronics retailer personally.
If the tenant pays the bills they are perfectly within their rights to have a smart meter installed, but its poor form not to have advised the landlord of this. I also think it would be poor form to withhold any deposit - as it's hard to see any loss being suffered as a result, unless there was damage caused by the installation itself, in which case crack on...
It’s fates way of telling you that buy to let is a disgusting capitalist racket that prevents the less well off and first time buyers getting on the housing ladder. One for the little guy..
I remember a landlord that didn't like showers, among other things. OP comes across as rather similar.
It staggers me that people would think they have redress for something that has zero effect on them, financial or otherwise, and has not been set out in a contract with the other party.
Even if it did have a financial impact, that's just a consequence of where you've decided to put your money.
The older SMETS1 are the ones tied to the provider. If you subsequently change providers, nothing happens other than the ‘smart’ bit will probably stop working. They don’t limit anything.
A lot of the SMETS1 meters can have the firmware updated by the original installer which then enables them to be enrolled with the centralised DCC system just like a SMETS2 meter and be switched between suppliers.
Some suppliers are a lot closer to delivering this than others, but it is something the industry is working on.
ALL PROPERTY IS THEFT!
This is why I stopped drinking leaf tea.
TDS should laugh at any deduction claims for a tenant getting a smart meter installed.
And finally the letting agent fees "money for old rope" swizz has been dead since 1st June. \o/
Tough crowd!
I don't think the OP deserves the kicking (and bumming) you lot want to give out.
I had to rent when relocating for work and I would asked before I added a smart meter or changed any of the fabric of the building. Seems reasonable to me.
Its not just poor form attempting to withhold deposit - it would be illegal.
Its not just poor form attempting to withhold deposit
Aye we talking bumming or renting? Confused.
Same thing apparently
If His Highness is "not pleased" can He at least be Merciful?
A lot of the SMETS1 meters can have the firmware updated by the original installer which then enables them to be enrolled with the centralised DCC system just like a SMETS2 meter and be switched between suppliers.
I didn't know that. Good to know, ta.
I think it is legitimate for a tenant to have a meter changed but no drop of plaster/brickwork may be spilled in installing it. There is a legal precedent for this: Shylock vs. Antonio.
Well, if this meter's so 'smart' why don't you ask it what you should do?
I think it is legitimate for a tenant to have a meter changed but no drop of plaster/brickwork may be spilled in installing it. There is a legal precedent for this: Shylock vs. Antonio.
Nice reference and there's a serious point there.
There's a software update that will make all SMETS1 meters have SMETS2 functionality sometime.
Funnily enough the date keeps slipping.
So is there any definitive way to figure out if you have SMETS1 or SMETS2?
We had ours fitted last year by EON and clearly remember the installer having to do a network search for the best signal which ended up being EE for us. Would that indicate it’s most likely SMETS2 based on an earlier comment regarding SIM cards?
Google search not overly helpful or I’m crap!
Just to add to the actual thread(!) if the install is anything like the one EON did for us beyond the issues of not mentioning I wouldn’t worry it was certainly neater than the original install from whenever.
As to another posters comment regarding elderly relatives turning things off when they see the cost. That’s exactly what one of our relatives has done even though for years she didn’t bat an eyelid. Nothing will now make her revert to her old relaxed behaviour. Personally I’d say for her it’s had a negative effect.