[Closed] Tell me about NLP?

I've had to do some NLP training for work, and must admit I have enjoyed it. Yes it can go a little too far down that American route, but as a scientist some of it also makes sense. So for me, it helped, but I wouldn't take it so seriously that it comes into everything you do! Certainly for me with being mentored, and also becoming a mentor it's been really useful.

There's a book called 59 seconds: Think a little, change a lot by Richard Wiseman that's quite good.

I've had to do enneagram tests and various profiling tests in the last 18 months, and my view is, they are all interesting, but should all be treated with some common sense in how seriously you take the results. As you can make them mean what you want to in some cases.

I had to do an NLP course at work. I hated it. Till I got home and thought about. It really changed the way I worked. VERY good.

My dad is retired now, but he has been developing NLP courses for education over about the last 15 - 20 years with a few other guys.

I know nothing other than that though...

listend to the "NLP for dummies" audiobook on the commute. very interesting. actually listened to it just before being Jedi'd and lots of what he was saying married up very well with NLP stuff (not sure if he knows it or not though)

either way, it's always intertesting learning about different ways to approach life.

from Wikipedia:

The Natural Law Party (NLP) was a transnational party based on the teachings of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.[1] It was active in up to 74 countries, and ran candidates in at least ten. Founded in 1992, it was mostly disbanded in 2004 but continues in India and in some U.S. states.

The NLP viewed "natural law" as the organizing principle that governs the universe. The Natural Law Party advocated using the Transcendental Meditation technique and the TM-Sidhi program to reduce or eliminate problems in society.

Perhaps the most prominent candidate running on the NLP platform was John Hagelin, who campaigned for U.S. president in 1992, 1996, and 2004. The NLP in the United Kingdom received attention due to the support of former members of The Beatles. The only electoral successes were achieved by the Ajeya Bharat Party in India, which elected a legislator to a state assembly, and by the Croatian NLP, which elected a member of a regional assembly in 1993.[2]

Has anyone actually paid for private sessions? At £50 an hour I'm worried about it taking months of sessions.

Pseudo-scientific quackery. Next.

There's a book called 59 seconds: Think a little, change a lot by Richard Wiseman that's quite good.

I've not read that book, but I'm very familiar with Wiseman and I'll be deeply shocked if it's anything to do with NLP.

Pseudo-scientific quackery. Next.

+10

Hope you can find something with a rational, evidence-based background to help you out...

Erm.. No, not quackery at all.

It's a very good way of understanding human behaviour, very enjoyable, have done work courses years ago when it was popular, now it’s a bit “been there done that” Most large corporations had or have adopted the techniques in everyday working life, you’ll probably hardly know they’re being used.
Good tools for the Human mind, read with a little scepticism in the first instance until you decide it’s right for you. Once you do, then if you are paying for these courses outright yourself then you’ll need to go to an NLP trained practitioner, lots about, not all of them are the same and not all of them promote “the answer to everything” that some seem to harp on about, try someone that’s been in the teachings for a good few years rather than someone new.
It’s been around since the early 80’s in business, came to fruition in the 90’s here and through the 00’s it’s embedded in..
It’s easy to read a book, get one that’s written or underwritten by the NLP foundation, lots of faux books out there, don’t waste your time, they often skim over the processes.
Don’t expect miracles, do do the practice sessions, read with an open mind, be questioning of what you are doing and all will be fine.
If you take one thing out of it, it’s been a success, I’d suggest you’ll take more out of it though.

Eermm- what do you mean by NLP - neuro linguistic programming? A form of psychotherapy now not used as much as it was but that still has some adherents. Pretty much discredited now and taken over by business psychobabble types.

Yup Neuro Linguistic Programming it is.

You're right, some of it has been superseeded but the essance of it all is it still works.

But..

Be careful. SOme of the teaching(s) in it can displace you or try to reprogramme your memories. You have to take this bit seriously..

But..

It's not just for business.

Got the Seymour and O'Connor book years ago, definitely worth a read as a quick introduction. Got quite a lot from it. May also be useful in deciding whether to spend a lot of money on training.

Bikebouy - like all forms of counselling it has its adherents but NLP is basically discredited now as ineffective. So basically it does not work and the methods / language of it have been taken over by the life coach / business coach / quackery folk.

Be very sceptical indeed.

TandemJeremy - Member
Bikebouy - like all forms of counselling it has its adherents but NLP is basically discredited now as ineffective. So basically it does not work and the methods / language of it have been taken over by the life coach / business coach / quackery folk.

Be very sceptical indeed.

Then you ought to read it...

I'm not so sure TJ's right, maybe he is dunno, but it's still being practiced and a lot of the techniques are being used in the same format for business and sport alike.

I only add a warning about the remapping of your memory bit. There are techniques that allow you to manipulate your own memory and rewire what happened, in a sort of theropy way due to trauma and the like thats being practiced now, but you see you'll be doing it on your own with no guidance, that in itself is a little worrying.

it's still being practiced and a lot of the techniques are being used in the same format for business and sport alike.

So is homeopathy. So were power bands, until they got sued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

In the mid-1980s, reviews in The Journal of Counseling Psychology[15] and by the National Research Council (1988; NRC) committee[50] found little or no empirical basis for the claims about preferred representational systems (PRS) or assumptions of NLP. In an article published in 2005, psychologist Grant Devilly stated that at the time it was introduced, NLP was heralded as a breakthrough in therapy, and advertisements for training workshops, videos and books began to appear in trade magazines. The workshops provided certification. However, controlled studies shed such a poor light on the practice, and those promoting the intervention made such extreme and changeable claims that researchers began to question the wisdom of researching the area further,

Criticism of NLP extends beyond a lack of reliable experimental evidence to support its claimed effectiveness. The title of "neuro-linguistic programming", has been described as pseudo-scientific because the claims, concepts and terminology may appear scientific but are not grounded in scientific research. NLP appeared on a list of discredited psychological interventions in related research that investigates what does not work.

There's lots more on the page, and if you'd like further reading on this and other horseshit passed off daily as science, I'd suggest investing in a copy of Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science."

Ex-boss was mad on it. I got a book on it to see what was going on. Pseudo-scientific quackery.

Boss would go on about how people would look to a specific side if they were lying, how he could read minds by a person's stance and all the rest of it. Oh, and how you can change learned behaviour by opening up a gap between action and reaction (which is actually a Buddhist principle). To train, for example, a violent person to stop before they did something bad.

Then he was arrested and given community service for fraud. It obviously didn't work too well with him.

Any double-blind trial info about?

I was sent on a NLP course some years ago and wasn't convinced it seemed like the main beneficiaries of the training were the company providing it and it smacked of evangelism to me.

When you say discredited, I suspect that means there's no statistically significant therapeutic effect for recognised medical conditions which is not the same as saying it has nothing to offer in other circumstance eg Life coaching etc. As with all these things, the hype is always greater than the reality...

footflaps - indeed which is why I said be sceptical. No "its bunkum avoid"

All these psychotherapy type interventions are very hard to quantify and to prove effect and there tends to be an element of fashion in them NLP still has adherents in psychotherapy now.

however given that there is little evidence of any effect for it I think being sceptical about it is more than reasonable as other forms of psychotherapy seem to be able to demonstrate an effect

It depends what you mean by "nothing to offer."

You could argue, for instance, that homeopathy has something to offer due to the placebo effect and the demonstrable positive effects of a nice cup of tea and a chat to a sympathetic ear. Doesn't make it any more credible.

Pseudo-scientific quackery.

Tis the argument of the ignorant.

I agree it can appear like a load of salesy/American BS - that's what I thought of it until about 6-7 years ago. Then I studied some as part of my coaching and when 'applied' correctly/effectively it's bloody good.

I see it as helping one:

- communicate better with oneself
- communicate better with others
- understand what others are communicating
- understand what others are not communicating

Can apply it [u]in[/u] everything you 'do'.

I do wonder if the medical profession has taken anything from NLP and used it in current therapy, dunno cos' I'm not in that profession..

Just wondering like.

Tis the argument of the ignorant.

Then why don't you enlighten us?

Then why don't you enlighten us?

If we were one-to-one in a room 😯 then sure ... but I really don't have the time right now to go into the nitty gritty of how I see NLP.

My little summary above is about all I can offer right now, other than: IMHO, it is a model for understanding how we communicate on all levels. Once you've got a handle on that, you immediately change the way you see yourself and those around you. The upshot of this is you become more effective at creating positive 'change' in yourself as well as getting clear about what others are 'saying' and 'not saying'.

Gotta go.

Is NLP the same/similar to CBT?

In psychotherapy yes from what I know LGB however from googling around its clear in the life coaching world its been taken way way beyond that

Interesting...

Ta for that.

Thanks Teej 🙂

similar not eh the same and like all psychotherapy stuff little is solidly laid down in rules so what one person calls NLP another might not

As someone who pedals the 'psychobabble' for a living, even I regard NLP as a license to print money for the people offering courses and very little value for anyone else.

I am also of the opinion that the way NLP is positioned in the business world isn't even original; it's actually pretty similar to number of other things that have only marginal relevance in the work place.

It's pretty much regarded as junk by most trained/qualified Industrial Psychologists and the British Psychological Society.

If we were one-to-one in a room then sure ... but I really don't have the time right now to go into the nitty gritty of how I see NLP.

Can't say as I'm totally shocked.

Interesting GeeTee

Even more interesting that..

What about the stuff Paul McKenna does then, you know the "I can make you rich/not fat/a nice person" stuff.
For he too uses some of these techniques, certainly the hypnotheropy stuff,the self administered stuff that is.
I'm not a fan of McKenna's BTW, read his books, but I get the feeling it's the same stuff just modified to suit the Symptom.

The thing about NLP is that it makes a lot of sense when someone (usually a very charismatic and successful individual) eulogizes to you about it in what can only be regarded as a thinly veiled, Timeshare-esque, sales pitch.

It tends to appeal to the same people who buy self help books or people who are very emotionally aware but also emotionally deprived (mid 40s single women are the key target market).

Now don't get me wrong; I think being emotionally aware is very important (and I try to be it myself), but emotionally aware and emotionally unfulfilled makes you very vulnerable and there are a lot of people taken in by NLP because it fulfills that empty part of them that wants to be a better person.

Maybe by even thinking you can be a better person you do become one, in which case maybe there is some value to NLP. But as for the 'scientific premise' behind how you do that, sure it seems reasonable when described but actually it's one of those 'impossible to disprove' theories that therefore makes it junk.

So other than MTFU, or go ride your bike (the STW favoured theraphy techniques) do any of these counsellor / life coach thinks work?

Can't say as I'm totally shocked.

Meeting today's project deadlines vs spouting about NLP ... hmm, let me think about how best to spend those last 2-3 hours of the day ...

do any of these counsellor / life coach thinks work?

Yes and no.

Are there cowboys out there? Yes

Are there excellent coaches out there? Yes

Are people being ripped off? Yes

Are people making positive changes (small or large) in their lives? Yes

I know some shit coaches (and coach training organisations) and I know some brilliant ones. I also coached for 2-3 years.

+1 for Spacemonkey

I should also add there's another type of coach/practitioner: the one that's nervous and/or doesn't really know what they're doing - and IS totally aware of this. Sometimes this is as a result of being poorly 'trained.' Other times it's because they're new to the game or coaching etc really isn't for them.

Nevertheless, they seek a few clients (typically friends, old colleagues and people they don't know but who are desperate for someone to 'help' them). And invariably they make a balls up. Is that good for the name of coaching/NLP? Sure as hell, no - regardless of that fact they had the best of intentions.

I know a number of people who are into NLP - a couple in a very big way, almost evangelical. However I think all of them are so completely wrapped up in themselves that their behaviour and attitudes towards others negates any perceived benefits to themselves. It does come across as a bit cult like, and not in a good way, although I am sure there are elements of it that may be useful if adopted in appropriate circumstances.

I've read two books on NLP well, almost finished the second one! For me it just re-affirmed what I already knew deep down, but allowed me to bring that to the fore and reset a few buttons so to speak, regarding things I may have been hanging on to in the back of my mind. I found it fun and quite liberating. In fact I've just included an NLP book in my packing for an overnight stay after a funeral today.