[Closed] Team GB chief says winter sports not elitist

None _ i have ice skated once - Bolero was not involved

I think the problem is it is a sport that higher start up/participation costs than others

Football requires a ball , horse riding requires a horse and stabling costs

Winter sports require expensive foreign holidays abroad with snow I assume - I guess you could do it indoors or on a dry skis slope but I assume this is not that inexpensive

Arguably cycling is elitist given the cost of a decent bike whereas some sports cost pence and need only an open space

It's only about £ in the UK because of geography and weather

The biggest barrier to winter sports in this country is that many of the olympic events don't require slightly chilly, overcast and damp conditions, they require snow and mountains.

I've tried xc skiing,. Ice skating, I've done some shooting so I'll claim biathalon

How much is spent on elite level winter sports compared to participation? I suspect on that level it is extremely elitist, as great as it was to watch Yarnold win gold in the skeleton. That clearly does not create a surge of kids turning up at the Burnley metropolitan bobsleigh track to have a go.

It is a great shame for me that the money pumped into creating winners in the Olympics (not just winter) over the last few years, hasn't been matched by the facilities that could be used by those inspired. At a local level sports facilities are reducing.

I don't have a problem with investing in medal winners when it is done on top of investing in sport for all, currently it just feels like they are investing in a fancy facade where when you walk through the big doors you just find an overgrown muddy field and a few planks holding it up.

Just wait until we're 20 years into the next ice age and XC skiing is normal in the UK\north sea etc. and we might kick Norway's ass 😉

Skied, snowboarded, ice skated and curled. The first two you can (and I have) do in the UK but it's either limited to indoor or dry slopes or you're at the mercy of the Scottish ski resorts. That's maybe where out winter Olympians start, but can't imagine many of them do all their training in the UK.

I'd argue that anything involving a 'chef de mission' is a little elitist (unless you're French of course).

It's only about £ in the UK because of geography and weather

skiied a fair bit on winter holiday and ion dry slopes, and despite living near manchester have tried curling in the fervour following Rhona Martin's gold in Vancouver - we went ove to Deeside Ice Rink near Chester, the only rink south of the scottish border to offer curling

Not that elitist really. Look at Woodsy, hardly a posh chap, that's for sure! 🙂

I was thinking that the summer olympics could be unclogged by giving a few sports to the winter olympics. Non weather dependant sports like boxing, judo, etc. Maybe squash could find a place?

Not that elitist really

He's right, they're not.

I'm still concerned that Easyjet and the sort make it too easy for the "wrong type" of people to access the pistes

Not elitist in that you'd be snubbed by others in the sport because you didn't go to Eton etc sort of thing, but inaccessible for most without more money than most due the ability to train in most of the sports yes.
[edit] but as said before thats because of geography and weather[/edit]

Ive done luge and skeleton courses, and I'm defo standard 'lower middle class'.

We do have mountains in Scotland. And snow. In fact, at the moment, we have mountains of snow... It's the wind that's been a problem this winter.

Always an issue with wind if your national dress involves a flappy tartan skirt and no knickers 😉

geography and weather

+1, far more relavent

The cost of becoming a proficient skier/boarder might be high if you're conventionaly employed and only do it for 2 weeks a year. But ski-bums are hardly and elitist bunch, probably better described as "the middle class NEE*T's". So maybe participation is class based, buit it's not a barier.

*ski resort driver or challet bed maker is hardly a career.

It's not just having the resources to train, it's grass roots that's important IMO. If you grow up next to a mountain and are that way inclined/encouraged it stands to reason that you'll be pretty good at skiing/boarding/biking/climbing/etc.

The next best thing would be regular (expensive) holidays, then proximity to UK based alternatives, until finally you find yourself making do on a home made street luge down the precinct steps 🙂

This is why it's seen as elitist in the UK and not in (most of) mainland Europe for example.

To take Tamworth Snowdome as an example, freestyle nights are £26 for juniors, £37 adults for 3 1/2 hours. Membership (£45/£65) takes 30% off that. The dryslopes do similar at about half the cost. Startup kit costs are a few hundred.

Not the most expensive, but not horrendous either. I don't think either Jennie Jones or Jamie Nicholls made it to real snow until their late teens once they could pay to go - then headed to the Alps to work and ride as much as much as they could. Certainly a disadvantage compared to someone living near a ski resort who's parents take them there every weekend, but enough of a window to build the kinds of skills needed.

Arguably, anything that involves any sort of specialist kit and/or a specific place to do it is "elitist".

Junky, polo and yachting. The easy way to make a small fortune out of either of those two is to start with a large fortune! 🙂

Plenty of Snowboarding and Skiing but nothing beyond a week every two years. 🙁

Had a go at bobsleigh last year in Innsbruck was amazing, but cost a bomb.
Spent the following few months tesco shops practicing my sprints and mount on shopping trolleys I reckon I'll be pretty damn good if I get called up.

Skied dry slopes when I was younger, including with a few of those competing last week. Only good things to say about the whole 'movement', lots of kids picking up sponsorship, coaching etc from dry slope alone. This was before the snowdomes really took off too.

By contrast I had a mate who went pretty far with ski racing and he ended up rather bitter about it. People getting selected on the basis of mummy and daddy having a chalet for the team to use, and so on. A lot of money and sacrifice, and then a complete brick wall trying to move beyond junior competition.

Have tried skiing on dryslope, done a fair bit of snowboarding on dryslope and several holidays been ice skating quite a few times. Would like to do more but most of the UK isn't exactly setup for winter sports.

WHat you classing as elitism? price only or other barriers? Not sure its a elitist but it is a bit expensive to do, there's few places to do it here so they can charge what they want and going abroad is obviously expensive - tho if you do it right a weeks worth of skiing abroad will prob cost less than the same amount of ski time at the chill factor or similar.

Distance/geography a bigger factor +1

if you actually live in the mountains then skiing/snowboarding is pretty cheap. Like bikes you can go crazy with the latest kit but law of diminishing financial returns still applies -realy not that bad to set yourself up with secondhand or decathlon-budget kit which still works and still makes itfun. I once worked in a (state!!) school in the pyrenees and we used to go skiing for PE on wednesday afternoons, cheaper less glitzy stations like Luz-ardiden or Gavarnie cost a lot less than lift passes for posher resorts.
Going on fighting and mullets, I also dispute that ice-hockey is in any way elitist! Size-ist maybe (I can skate well and played 'normal' hockey well enough but i am like a frail old lady stood next to an ice hockeyeist)

It's not elitist, it's inconvenient. You can get round the inconvenience in several ways - spending lots is one, compromising your lifestyle is another, moving abroad is a third.

Not that elitist really. Look at Woodsy, hardly a posh chap, that's for sure!

There was a very interesting BBC Radio 4 programme about the 'Legacy' of the Sheffield Ski Village

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03srgv7 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03srgv7[/url]

Unfortunately the programme isn't available to listen to anymore, but one of the relevant points was:

Pat Sharples - "Every single one of my athletes comes from a working class background... and the majority of my team are from Sheffield."

Unfortunately the message from the program is that this isn't likely to happen again as the 'Fridges' in the UK still require considerable funds to attend regularly

But yeah .. sadly I would agree that in this country, Winter sports are somewhat elitist ... making it probably the least attractive part of one of my favourite hobbies ... 🙁

Look at Woodsy

The UK slopestyle lot who honed their skills on artificial slopes are the exception rather than the rule

My brother lives in Sweden and was taking his kids skiing from being toddlers. If I want to let my 5 year old try skiing the nearest option is the Chill FactorE but they require that kids under 6 book some lessons. That could get expensive for something he may not like. If not elitist it's certainly not all that accessible compared to many of the summer olympic sports.

Alternative sports in this country are expensive full stop if you have kids going to lessons.
The stuff school does for free after school is great but it's usually football/rugby for lads and netball/hockey for the girls.
If you want to be good it's about parents giving up the time and money for extra lessons.
I'd love for laddo who's just 9 to go boarding, he genuinely has no fear and was pulling of some crazy stuff on a snow scooter of all things when it snowed last year, but we just can't afford it on top of gymnastics and swimming plus there's not much time left for school work as it is.

Gifted kids will always get on, and I believe lizzy yarnold was hoping to be a heptathlete or modern pentathlete(?), she was taken on the "golden girl?" programme because of her sprinting ability and they came back and said "right, tea tray riding it is for you".
I also believe she was at a school who were pushing all these initiatives.

How much is spent on elite level winter sports compared to participation? I suspect on that level it is extremely elitist, as great as it was to watch Yarnold win gold in the skeleton. That clearly does not create a surge of kids turning up at the Burnley metropolitan bobsleigh track to have a go.

On the other hand, Jenny Jones took up snowboarding after a taster session at Churchill dry ski slope.

I went to the ice rink every Saturday morning when I was a teenager,never thought of it as a sport,unless meeting girls is a sport 😉
It was not expensive

Learned to ski on a dryslope ( the old school stuff that ripped thumbs off )with two pairs of jeans and a motorbike jacket for protection.
It was not expensive

First go on cross country skis was also on a dryslope ,and if there was no snow ,we would use roller skis.
It was not expensive

I am not posh or elitist 😛

Echoing the above, it depends on your definition of elitist, and then what level you want to take participation to - If you want to participate in snowboarding then head to your dendix dryslope and learn to ride conditions that would make a Scandinavian shudder. If you want to compete for GB then its all off your own back (training camps, comp entry, flights etc).
Hell, even Chemmy Alcott the poster girl for GB skiing had to fund her own way last season. That's hard to justify as a career when it comes to making the decision whether to push onto the next level or not.
If you have the financial support its a damn sight easier to compete on a level playing field than otherwise.
IMO the big legacy of Olympic success should be getting coaches and facilities in place to spot and grow the talent (SSV, Hillend, Halifax dry slope etc)so that the pathways are in place to ensure its not a closed shop once you hit the adult age groups.

IMO the big legacy of Olympic success should be getting coaches and facilities in place to spot and grow the talent (SSV, Hillend, Halifax dry slope etc)

Unfortunately that was the sad fact from the BBC Radio 4 programme I mentioned earlier ... SSV is unlikely ever to see the light of day again as the current owner is a property developer who wants to make money rather than provide a dryslope facility for the kids off the local estates ...

I learnt on Counthill** dry slope in Oldham - there wasn't even a drag lift so you had to hike for your thrills.

** AKA Sholver 1650 as my mate from Delph called it.

Deffo not elitist, but then I was never a world class downhiller except in my dreams where I've won Wengen, Kitzbuhel and the Olympics back-to-back.

Unfortunately that was the sad fact from the BBC Radio 4 programme I mentioned earlier ... SSV is unlikely ever to see the light of day again as the current owner is a property developer who wants to make money rather than provide a dryslope facility for the kids off the local estates ...

Its not Elitist. If you can ski and get there your loving it.

Elitist is when you are purposely barred on your class. If we had a mountain next to Warrington I'd be ski-ing most weekends. Its Geographics.

I love Winter Olympics but can't really be bothered with the Athletics etc.

ski (well, haven't for last 8 years but used to, primary school onwards, up at Cairngorm in all weathers, yuk). Since then, plenty foriegn holidays.

curling. did that at school, travel 35 miles to ice rink. took it up again when working in Edinburgh, work had a curling 'team' (a couple of them were quite good). Now, again, curl, member of local curling club, usually at least a match a week in winter, season ending this weekend with club bonspiel. But it's not a 'cheap' sport, admittedly, and the folk can be a bit off-hand sometimes.

I would say it is elitist when all the money is spent on the few at the top of the sport rather than by providing facilities and pathways for anyone to get involved.

Funding for the skeleton for example has been increased, effectively none but a select few can access that funding to participate in that sport.

Anyone remember the DH / Duel track on the backside of the hill slag heap?

Was that 'Iron Justice'? 8)

Yeah - I learnt at SSV about 13 years ago, when you paid a nominal yearly fee/membership and got to ride off-peake for next to nothing!
That video of Terje @ SSV is on YouTube but it's listed as Halifax:

[url=

Elitist is when you are purposely barred on your class

In my experience, if you spend any time at the majority of European Mountain resorts it becomes apparent that they are the enclave of the wealthy middle and upper classes (including minor deposed European royalty) and laterly former Soviet Oligarchies ... this in itself can present a 'barrier to entry' which could be construed as elitist

... compare this to many Western Canadian ski towns which are often working mining/industrial towns and the demographic on the ski-hill is made up of much more blue-collar ...

I may be a step ahead of most, as I've actually competed rather than just participated in XC skiing (I've also skied with Posy Musgrave, and possibly with some of the other Olymians when they were kids - but that just emphasises how small the sport is in this country!) When I was a kid I also took part in grass roots level ski race training at the local dry slope - I'd suggest there weren't too many working class kids at that, though neither was it full of posh kids and we weren't exactly that well off.

What's wrong with elitism?

Without it we'd have no champions. It encourages excellence. The drive not to come second should be encouraged. We're a soft nation of 'well done for trying' rubbish. Yay, British athlete came 17th, which improved on their previous performance of 32nd, or similar. Wow, well done.

To my mind, I think there is a difference between 'Elitism' and being an 'Elite Athlete' for example ...

The former being a belief that a select group are intrinsically of a higher prestige, value or worth than other people (and often to the detriment or exclusion of others) and the latter being someone who has performed or competed [successfully?] at a high level.

I think in this case it means you need to have money to participate and therefore it doe snot get a cross section of society participating at grass roots level [ what a wonderful metaphor to use with snow sport]

Whether you want to get as excited by competition as glasgowdan is another debate entirely- I have never heard it described as the drive to not come second rather than the desire to win

We spend millions on football. We rule the world at it...don't we?

I specifically chose Sheffield as my preferred University town because of the SSV.
There was a total cross section of ages/abilities/class present on the freestyle nights. As the article above says, it made those sports much more accessible.
I swear some of those kids wore anti-gravity boots. Can remember jumping a Lada on the Snake one day. Happy days.

I was on the original snowboard lessons in approx 1990 (even ended up on the promo material for lessons), and I think it was a great place to learn. Not such a good place to crash though 😥
The Moritz Pass (IIRC) gave unlimited free skiing/riding for about £30 per month.
Moved away just before the Millenium and still miss being able to go for a quick blast.

Used to live just around the corner from the ice rink too, and had many a Wednesday night bombing round. Usually helped by a half time bottle of dog.

All sport at the top level is by definition elitist. Only a very small number of participants and a tiny population of the population can be involved at that level. What's the story?

Should limited funding be given to those who work hardest and who are most likely to succeed? Would you give a Stradivarius to a beginner violinist or to an accomplished player?

I am waiting for grass skiing to make a comeback. Used to do it at Troutbeck in the lakes as a kid? also had to be elitist as only nut cases could put up with the pain!!!!

Should limited funding be given to those who work hardest and who are most likely to succeed? Would you give a Stradivarius to a beginner violinist or to an accomplished player?

How about instead of buying 1 really expensive violin for 1 person you spend that money giving thousands of beginners lessons so that a few dozen of them can become accomplished players.

Success is only partly about hard work, it is also about opportunity

I recently read that for the participants of the Olympics the ratio of public school to state school education is 1:6

The funding from UK Sport for Olympic cycles is there to elevate British prospects from also-ran to medal contention, partly to fund excellent coaching and support teams and also ensure the athletes get the time and facilities to train unencumbered by financial pressures.

Without it, the competitors need to be self-funded, which usually means people getting generous support from their families to fund many years of training without needing to work for a living. Hence a much higher barrier to entry if you don't have rich parents.

The grass-roots stuff to nurture younger people who show interest is from separate funds entirely. I believe UK Sport's annual income from the lottery (70%) and government (30%) is about £340m a year, much of which is spent on that stuff. The winter olympic spend was £13.5m, over 4 years.

I'm working class, and I raced DH and Super G for a good few years.

I left the UK when I left school and went to live in the mountains.

I did whatever jobs I needed to so I could stay and keep racing.

Never made the grade for the 'lympics though sadly, wasn't because of a lack of money or privilege though.

If Jamaica can have a bobsleigh team then adverse climate isn't always a showstopper.

Emma Carrick-Anderson started out at Hillend didn't she? That's where I started skiing too, school trips from a frankly slightly skanky school in the middle of a council estate.

We had trips to ssv once every half term with school (about 40 miles away). Used to drive back via Northern General normally 🙂

Growing up in Dundee I learnt to ski at Glenshee/Aviemore. Swapped to snowboarding once I started to abroadfor holidays. My dad still curls at 73 years competitively and I have had a few goes at it. My sister used to ice skate competitively too.

It is easier if you have facilities close by but we probably travelled more for my Judo when I was. Kid as we would go to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and even down to England for competitions.

I think it is always about people's perceptions. Some people think skiing etc is for rich people. I think snowboarding helped to introduce more people to snow sports and the job of the Lottery funding is to open up the avenues or more people to try these sports and then cherry pick the ones that show real talent and push them to excel.