[Closed] Teachers hours

No....not since training. But no qualms about doing so in the future

and I also work Saturdays and usually 3-4 Sundays a term

Fair enough, I wouldnt want to work in the private sector. I was just looking at all those trips, its one of my bugbears when state schools, like the one I'm at, organise ski trips for the lucky few. I think thats very wrong.

I wonder if you would have the same views if you worked at a state school? Out of intrest do you get the same pension and how does pay compare?

Teachers...

Amazing how many post on this forum at all times of day..

My 15 going on 16 yr old recently showed me a piece she'd had marked excellent, They're, there & their were all spelt 'there'..

Say no more really, they just don't make em like they used to imho and as to working hard I wish it were mandatory that they had worked in a proper job in the private sector first, then maybe they'd realise how life aint as bad being a teacher as it might seem to them currently.

Yes there are no posts at all from the private sector here during work hours just teachers everywhere.
Thankfully no one here cares about grammar either

It is alos just possible that the teacher is aware of the work standards of your daughters peers, the criteria by which to assess and is able to asses progress by your daughter over time and give an appropriate mark.
I assume you would hate for the person without a "proper job" to turn up at the "real world job you have " [ it would probably frighten them would it not?]and start telling you why you were doing it wrong and why they know better.
I never knew the only true way to understanding education and standards is to not work in education but to do a "proper job".Who knew eh

I can only really add to this discussion from an slightly unusual perspective, but still relevant...

I've helped "build" (doing the legals, not actually touching dirty mud and bricks and stuff, it would ruin my shoes) quite a few schools over the years (somewhere around 30 in the UK and about to close another few in Ireland next month). I get to deal with (generally indirectly) the teachers and other people who help us turn a building into a school (if that makes sense).

These are voluntary posts on a committee/board, filled by teachers of the current/new school who are there to voice opinions on issues to do with the construction (normally fitting out) and management of the school. It's good to get a view on how something will actually work on the ground, rather than in a contract or a designers drawing.

The people who take these positions are often exactly how I remembered my old teachers - patronising, stubborn and unable to keep their emotions (anger/frustration) under control.

However, in almost every school we've built across the UK and Ireland, including the large numbers we currently manage, there's a recurring theme...they all genuinely care about, and are willing to really fight for, the welfare of the pupils. It can be quite a heartwarming sight when you've got a teacher sitting in on a meeting at 6pm, giving a demonstration as to why a particular door or bit of furniture won't be suitable and won't leave the room until they're sure everyone has understood their point. It can be annoying at time (can't really blame them for not being able to understand the economic or practical realities though, they're only telling it how they see it), but you can't fake that level of commitment to pupil welfare/teaching standards over a long construction and subsequent maintenance period.

I've had one guy literally throw himself down a set of stairs to try to highlight circumstances where a device used to get disabled children down stairs in an emergency might fail. It got to the stage where we had the MD of the company that manufactures the product fly in from Germany (with his 20st rugby playing son) to demonstrate how well it worked. I remember cursing that teacher every day until we had the issue resolved, but had to admire his concern for a bunch of little turds that probably didn't appreciate him at all 🙂

Like most jobs, my hat goes off to those who actually put the effort in.

As for more pay...you get enough 😉

I do not read this as a criticism of teachers. Rather it is a simple question - would giving schools the ability to set pay levels and to discriminate between teachers depending on their performance (however defined) lead to :

1. "demotivated teachers, staffroom resentment and recruitment problems" (NUT)
2. "motivate teachers, create incentives to improve standards, assist recruitment" (Government plans)

Of course, this gets muddles up in more emotive subjects at the margin (poor teachers hiding, long holidays etc) but these seem to be red herrings in comparison to this simple, central issue. Is equality paying everyone the same, or is it paying them according to their contribution (again however defined)?

Personally, I would be happier to see teachers who are willing and able to extend education beyond the passing of current styles of exams [and, dare I say it, willing buy books that go beyond merely passing exams (sorry 😉 ] encouraged with (among other things) the opportunity to earn more than those who are not. But I know that this puts me at odds with others on here! 😉

Indeed, but the tricky part is finding others to do it who are better.

That starts with the process of recruiting students post A-Level and changing the perception of teachers and teaching.

Igrf their not all that bad!
Rogerthecat someone should tell that they're Mr Gove

Personally, I would be happier to see teachers who are willing and able to extend education beyond the passing of current styles of exams [and, dare I say it, willing buy books that go beyond merely passing exams (sorry  ] encouraged with (among other things) the opportunity to earn more than those who are not. But I know that this puts me at odds with others on here! 

so would I but unless league tables are junked its not going happen.

I struggle with long sentences but suffice to say my wife is a teacher and a large percentage of our social circle are teachers. I don't know *any* teacher who leaves before 1700 and most are there at 0800 preparing for lessons. Add to that Mrs. C spends at least an hour a night at home working and 25% of the weekend sorting lesson plans and other paperwork.

Teaching is not what OFSTEAD* and the nasty party would have you believe. It is bloody hard word and if broken down to an hourly rate is not particularly well paid.
.
.
.
* Speaking of OFSTEAD, Chris [s]Knob[/s]Woodhead seems to have done rather well out of his government appointed position. ****.

Teachers...

Amazing how many post on this forum at all times of day..

I wish it were mandatory that they had worked in a proper job in the private sector first

yes, because you'd never find someone who works in the private sector posting on STW all day do you? 🙄

Is Teaching not a proper job then?

Speaking of OFSTEAD, Chris KnobWoodhead seems to have done rather well out of his government appointed position. ****.

My 15 going on 16 yr old recently showed me a piece she'd had marked excellent, They're, there & their were all spelt 'there'..

What was the objective of the piece of work?

Say no more really, they just don't make em like they used to imho and as to working hard I wish it were mandatory that they had worked in a proper job in the private sector first, then maybe they'd realise how life aint as bad being a teacher as it might seem to them currently.

In my department of five, every one of us had different jobs before going into teaching, ranging from shooting people to jewellery shop to programming.

Both our pay and pensions are pegged to the national pay scale- the benefit of being in the private sector is more freedom over budgets-for us that means we can buy new textbooks and stock the department library for extra reading.

Is Teaching not a proper job then?

No, it's not a proper job, it's a vocation.
And that's where the problems start.
Mrs Cat is a Midwife, devastated to have to quit due to effects of back surgery and told by the Trust that they would not support her, she would be managed out of her job - bold as brass.
People undertaking vocations can be treated poorly because they see their pupils/students/patients/etc as their primary concern unlike people like me who choose to be heartless capital bastards hell bent on exploiting our employees!!
See, it's all black and white.

What was the objective of the piece of work?

This, as ever, will go on and on. We've discussed it before. Unless you have worked in [u]any[/u]job you are not in a position to comment on it.

I have worked in private sector and have also taught for 15 years. It's not the worst job in the world. It's not badly paid. We do get long holidays.

We also seem to be Govt scapegoats at the moment and are easy targets. It is the intensity of being emotionally involved with kids that wears you down. As mentioned above dealing with issues/fights on the way to a 'break' (as most staff I know work through breaks getting ready for next lesson, or are on duty). Coping with and trying to motivate challenging kids - regularly get sworn at, threatened (and expected to teach that same kid next lesson). ETC etc. I could go on.

I'm normally in work for 7.30, work through break/lunch and leave at 4.30 or 5. Then about 2 hours work each night and work half of Sunday. Tonight, I've just got back from a school DofE trip - which I loved, but have now got to plan for tomorrow.

Hey ho. I know there are far harder/more stressful jobs. But please stop saying it's easy. I'm getting right ****ed off with people putting us down. It would be interesting to see how other professions coped under a similar inspection regime as Ofsted. 😐

I can see both side of the argument here.

My wife is a primary teacher in a rough area where the kids struggle as they get no help from home. She works pretty long hours - out of the door at 7.30am and often not back until after 6pm - she then has marking and lesson planning in an evening. She's not remotely interested in promotion (and has turned down the opportunity to be team leader etc) as she prefers working with the kids. She gets 1/2 day out of the classroom each week for lesson preparation etc.

Her sister on the other hand works in secondary and is a head of subject. She leaves for work at 8.30, gets loads of free periods and time out of the classroom for 'preparation' which if it's at the end of the school day means she's home before 3pm and is usually home by 3.30pm regardless. It frankly boils my pee that such a total slacker is on good money for working 'part time' hours and long holidays.

So there are hard working teachers and total wasters pretty much the same as in every other walk of life.

I think I need educating in the ways of where poor spelling and/or grammar should not be part of the overall assessment,

Should someone loose marks because of grammar?
The result is you give higher marks to someone who knows less but had better grammar which is unwise/unfair.
Would you give higher marks for better handwriting or grammar above better knowledge?

I do not read this as a criticism of teachers. Rather it is a simple question - would giving schools the ability to set pay levels and to discriminate between teachers depending on their performance (however defined) lead to :
1. "demotivated teachers, staffroom resentment and recruitment problems" (NUT)
2. "motivate teachers, create incentives to improve standards, assist recruitment" (Government plans)

3. Both?
Possibly depending on whoever is employed to perform these tasks of motivation, standard raising, incentive creating, recruitment assistance, and pay setting (sounds like a fair bit of extra work).
If results improve, great - all win. But where results drop who is then responsible, the teacher or the new management?

I think I need educating in the ways of where poor spelling and/or grammar should not be part of the overall assessment, regardless of the objective. Unless the objective was an essay to highlight common mistakes in the English language.

Little Jonny has dyslexia. Every piece of work he gets back is covered in red ink highlighting every spelling mistake. Does he notice that he knew all there was to know about ox bow lakes, or does he think he's thick and worthless?

Mr Miketually has 50 project proposals to mark before Monday. They are assessed, and the assessment does not mention spelling, punctuation or grammar. Does he spend his Sunday afternoon highlight ever spelling mistake in the 500 page high pile of paper, or does he make sure the students know what they need to change in order to improve their grade?

Little Jonny has dyslexia.

Should someone loose marks because of grammar?

Mr Miketually has 50 project proposals to mark before Monday.

Should someone loose marks because of grammar?

To be fair, I take off marks for use of Comic Sans, but that's just common sense.

Yes, unless they have a good and genuine reason, same applies to people who spell badly or have indecipherable handwriting.

How many marks? And for all work, or just final assessment/exams? How would we then distinguish between the mark of someone who's brilliant at history but can't spell with that of a well-written history know-nothing?

How many marks?

Would Mr Miketually make a mental note of the level of poor spelling and grammar and bring it up at the next staff meeting/or with the relevant person/or with a responsible person who has authority to act on this information?

I underline the first few mistakes and then tell them they should write it properly or I/moderator will assume they're thick.

Interestingly, spg marks are coming back into the GCSE from 2015 for the first time in years. Will be 5 marks out of 50 or 75 (depending on the paper). They are awarding marks not just based on accuracy, but also on the range of vocabulary used.

You are now giving higher marks to someone who knows less but writes neatly and spells well 😯
How little can they know, if they write well, to pass?
In what sense are you now measuring their knowledge of the subject or question?

I underline the first few mistakes and then tell them they should write it properly or I/moderator will assume they're thick.

In the sense that even if you know that 'germany' were partially responsible for starting the First World War, everyone would be more impressed if it were 'Germany'!

You are now giving higher marks to someone who knows less but writes neatly and spells well

In the sense that even if you know that 'germany' were partially responsible for starting the First World War, everyone would be more impressed if it were 'Germany'!

We place assessed work into Mark Bands; three bands per strand. A typical unit will have 5 strands. In one of the strands, we can take account of SPG when awarding the mark, but not the mark band. If SPG is poor, we can drop the mark to the bottom of the mark band.

So, an A/B grade student with terrible SPG will lose maybe 2 marks our of 60. But this very rarely happens.

But I've just been told it's about the content. No wonder the kidz are confused.

I do it in a special, caring, teacher way, obviously 🙂

Interestingly, spg marks are coming back into the GCSE from 2015 for the first time in years.

Been in GCSE science for a year and have always been in the courswork AFAIK. We have a policy of only checking spelling etc in 1 paragraph. Ofsted are apparently going to be checking to see if subjects other than english are using the literaciness policy. I are all in favor.

You said so your self* and of course you added handwriting to the list of marks available.
What exactly do you think will happen if you give etc marks for this - And I really will need to see your working

*

Should someone loose marks because of grammar?
[b]
Yes,[/b]

Ofsted are apparently going to be checking to see if subjects other than english are using the literaciness policy. I are all in favor.

Eye larfed! 🙂

The trouble with any discussion of education is that everyone is an expert. After all everyone went to school didn't they?

Is there another profession that is subject to such constant criticism and largely ill informed comment?

The trouble with any discussion of education is that everyone is an expert.

Is there another profession that is subject to such constant criticism and largely ill informed comment?

Criminology and and anything to do with the judiciary ? Most people appear to be experts when it comes to reducing crime and know exactly what needs to be done, despite the fact that very few actually have any qualifications on the subject.

Criminology and and anything to do with the judiciary

Quite probably. I also thought about politicans after I posted. Everyone is an expert there too. But you get my point I'm sure.

The trouble with any discussion of education is that everyone is an expert. After all everyone went to school didn't they?

Is there another profession that is subject to such constant criticism and largely ill informed comment?

Politics we could all run the country better than this shower despite no quals...oh hold on that one is true 😕

Or unpalatable observations from people who have been to school,have their children at school, employ school leavers and seen our OECD standings decline so perhaps not quite so ill informed.

I'm not suggesting that all the criticism is unfounded. Just quite a lot of it. I'm basing that on reading this thread which is a mix of informed comment and the usual 'I blame the teachers' crap.

A lot of the stories that crop up about poor teaching are smokescreen to deflect attention away from the fact that the government aren't willing or able to do the things that would really make a difference like smaller class sizes, investment in facilities and implementing alternative curricula for the disengaged.

If you cannot commit fully to teach other don't teach as simple as that because you are destroying the kids' future.

There is no half-hearted teaching before Uni because the kids are still not mature enough to stand on their own. The foundation must be laid or they will not have legs to stand on, especially when they cannot enter the profession they want to or go to Uni.

Some people in the teaching profession are tossers really ... yes, you maggots, you half-hearted tossers, why not jump from tower bridge you coward, rather than harming the future of the children ... 👿

yes, you maggots, you half-hearted tossers, why not jump from tower bridge you coward, rather than harming the future of the children

At last, someone with the guts to say it as he sees it.

Or perhaps unpalatable observations from people who have been to school,have their children at school, employ school leavers and seen our OECD standings decline so maybe not quite so ill informed.

I have had a car, have driven for years, have fixed mine occasionally so I best get on to car designers and F1 and tell them where they are going wrong

The point is you have a little knowledge of the subject and yet some think they can preach to /at and criticise the actual experts.

you never did respond to my point about a teacher coming and doing this to you when you were doing your job did you. Would you take my unpalatable observations?

Teachers - the new miners according to this government:

A long established and effective union who's members are ripe for misrepresentation and portrayal as a militant bunch of wastrels.

My Mrs is a teacher btw - working 12 hours a day, on average, if you're interested.

And in general, the only teachers who leave early at her school are the PE staff - they're usually off reffing a game somewhere.

Why would OECD be a teachers fault?

My Mrs is a teacher btw - working 12 hours a day, on average, if you're interested.

12 hours a day on [b]average[/b]?

I take it that 'average' doesn't include the thirteen weeks a year where she doesn't have to go to work at all?

The OECD measure wordwide education standards and we have declined dramatically over the last 10 years

He asked you why it was teachers fault. You didn't answer the question.

No it doesn't.

However, quite a large proportion of those 13 weeks are spent preparing and planning lessons, marking and setting out schemes of work.

What's your point?

davidjones15 - Member

I will take your concerns into the next SQA markers meeting I attend. Honestly; on a thread full of the usual pish about teaching,your nugget about spelling being more important than subject knowledge was brilliant. In fact it was so removed from reality that I actually agree with everything Junkyard said about it,and will now have to go and shower 😉

Actually I may report you and ed2001 for having multiple log ins.

duckman - Member

Won't somebody please think of the children???? Their are fuchur.

As i said why have you not commented on your own workplace and how you would respond?

The OECD measure wordwide education standards and we have declined dramatically over the last 10 years I would have thought you would know that being a teacher

Oh nice dig but i am happy to confirm that no teacher knows everything and you will always have some sort of knowledge greater than any teacher - it might even be about your actual job but dont let that stop me from telling you where you are going wrong

Why is this a teacher's fault?
Any chance you could answer this or shall we have a number of questions you are refusing to answer?

So what do you do exactly as i am really looking fwd to telling you what to do

Just as Junkyard has imagined a scenario to fit an argument, so have you.

I actually agree with everything Junkyard said about it,and will now have to go and shower

The OECD measure wordwide education standards and we have declined dramatically over the last 10 years
He asked you why it was teachers fault. You didn't answer the question.

FFS no you right it's not their fault- It's the system ,it's the goverment ,it's the parents , it's the kids ,it's the wrong exam.

So your sarcasm implies that it that [i]it can only[/i] be the fault of the teachers ?

Well I'm sorry I didn't know that ..... it wasn't obvious to me.

Got any proof to back up your claim ? I need more than tabloid type knee-jerk "well it's obvious" reactions.

FFS no you right it's not their fault- It's the system ,it's the goverment ,it's the parents , it's the kids ,it's the wrong exam.

Calm down dear.

A lot of the stories that crop up about poor teaching are smokescreen to deflect attention away from the fact that the government aren't willing or able to do the things that would really make a difference like smaller class sizes, investment in facilities and implementing alternative curricula for the disengaged.

If you want to make a difference for a given set of students then teacher quality is the only game in town. The other things you mention just aren't remotely near this one variable in terms of importance. Why would you waste time and money giving weak teachers small classes and nice classrooms?

Evidence please for this assertion.
No one is arguing the quality of the teacher does not matter
Would a weaker teacher not be better with less children and better resources?
Would a great teacher be unaffected by teaching 200 in an outside portacabin?

Why would you waste time and money giving weak teachers small classes and nice classrooms?

You're not; you're giving pupils small class sizes and nice rooms.

Smaller classes seems to work in the private sector and I dont think there is any evidence they have better teachers.

Evidence please for this assertion.
No one is arguing the quality of the teacher does not matter
Would a weaker teacher not be better with less children and better resources?
Would a great teacher be unaffected by teaching 200 in an outside portacabin?

Funny how the government tell us that if we want the best bankers then we have to pay them millions, yet if we want the best teachers or nurses then you have to pay them poorly and blame them for just about every issue in society.

Want the best education system? Then pay for it.

Really?

average teacher salary puts them on the edge of the top ten percent of earners in the country - hardly poverty wages is it?

Garry_Lager -

As you say teacher quality is a hard thing to assess. My feeling is that failing teachers are far less common than the press / government would have us believe.

Yes, we need to be better at weeding them out but I'd be surprised if sacking the odd muppet had much affect on national averages.

I skimmed the first link not caring about quarterbacks and only the last paragraph has any bearing and just explains the view
the wiki link is better but does include

He is perhaps best known for the controversial assertion that "money doesn't matter"--that is, he says that the amount of money spent in an American school district is not related to the amount of student learning in that district--and he is often called to testify in court about school funding schemes.

He is best known for his analysis of the determinants of student achievement. This analysis has documented the inconsistent relationship between school resources and student outcomes.[2] The overall findings have proved to be very controversial and have led to a variety of scholarly exchanges over time. The research related to the ineffectiveness of class size reduction has been particularly controversial and has entered into a variety of policy debates.[3] At the same time, his research has documented the overwhelming importance of teacher quality, although teacher quality is not closely related to the salaries, education, or experience of teachers. He was the first researcher to measure teacher effectiveness by the learning gains of the teacher's students.[4] This work is the foundation of the now-common approach to assessing teacher quality by the "value-added" of the teacher. The research on the effectiveness of educational resources has been central to many debates about school finance and has been a component of court cases about state funding of schools. In other work he has shown that cognitive skills are very closely related to economic outcomes, not only for individuals but also for nations. Variations in growth rates across countries can be largely explained by consideration of the role of cognitive skills.[5] This analysis provides a justification for state and federal accountability systems that promote higher skills through improved school quality. By linking the analysis of teacher value-added with research on the economic impact of differences in achievement both for individual earnings and for economic growth, he has also estimated the economic value of high quality teachers, showing that the impact of differences in teacher quality is very large.[6]

It not universally accepted

But Hanushek’s argument has been discredited. While not every dollar a school spends directly improves academic outcomes, a new report from Rutgers school-finance expert Bruce Baker finds certain kinds of money very much do matter: extra funding for higher teacher salaries and more equitable distribution of resources between rich and poor districts, for example, are correlated with higher student achievement, especially for the neediest kids. After reviewing the body of research on school finance, Denver Judge Sheila Rappaport ruled in December that Colorado’s school funding system violates the state’s constitutional promise of “uniform” educational opportunity for all children. During the trial, Hanushek testified on behalf of the state. But Rappaport noted in her ruling that “Dr. Hanushek’s analysis…defies logic and is statistically flawed.”

The most influential and credible study of CSR is the Student Teacher Achievement Ratio, or STAR, study which was conducted in Tennessee during the late 1980s. In this study, students and teachers were randomly assigned to a small class, with an average of 15 students, or a regular class, with an average of 22 students. This large reduction in class size (7 students, or 32 percent) was found to increase student achievement by an amount equivalent to about 3 additional months of schooling four years later.

Studies of class size in Texas and Israel also found benefits of smaller classes, although the gains associated with smaller classes were smaller in magnitude than those in the Tennessee STAR study. Other rigorous studies have found mixed effects in California and in other countries, and no effects in Florida and Connecticut.

Because the pool of credible studies is small and the individual studies differ in the setting, method, grades, and magnitude of class size variation that is studied, conclusions have to be tentative. But it appears that very large class-size reductions, on the order of magnitude of 7-10 fewer students per class, can have significant long-term effects on student achievement and other meaningful outcomes. These effects seem to be largest when introduced in the earliest grades, and for students from less advantaged family backgrounds.

Really?

Yes really. The present government obviously believes that teachers are overpaid and that their purchasing power should be reduced, hence the two year freeze on teacher's salaries - the intention is to make them poorer.

In contrast the present government is clearly relaxed about top bankers receiving salary increases way above inflation - the intention is to see them become wealthier.

Stevewhyte's comment is perfectly valid.

Just show how poorly paid even the top 10% of earners are. That's amazing I would never have thought.

Poverty?? Time to go to spec savers me thinks.

If anyone would know if class sizes make a difference it would be teachers. So you would think the the government would ask them, but no.

It's funny really how the last group to get asked their opinion on education is teachers. You have to ask why that is.

A good discussion of this issue can be found in this article from Gladwell here

A great example of the Gladwell modus operandi:

Find an interesting piece of research and weave a ton of waffle around it until it looks like you have some ownership of the original idea yourself.

It's funny really how the last group to get asked their opinion on education is teachers.

Are you saying that Michael Gove doesn't know anything about eduction ?

Surely he must have learnt something about education during his time as a reporter - no ?

The problem with the education system is the parents. It's that simple, you can try to teach kids but when you send them back home to a bunch of retarded shit slinging monkeys then they regress. You can't teach children with no boundaries or discipline set at home.

A great example of the Gladwell modus operandi:

Find an interesting piece of research and weave a ton of waffle around it until it looks like you have some ownership of the original idea yourself.

Even science writers like Dawkins aren't coming up with much in the way of original ideas themselves, not at the scientific level. The Selfish gene is not a monumental text because it contained original ideas or new research.

ernie_lynch - Member
Yes really. The present government obviously believes that teachers are overpaid and that their purchasing power should be reduced, hence the two year freeze on teacher's salaries - the intention is to make them poorer.

Really?

“Given that high quality teachers drive up pupils’ achievement, it is crucial that the pay system enables head teachers to reward the best teachers who can have the biggest impact on pupil outcomes,” the report said.

A slightly different spin on the same story. But all this anti-government stuff is making me confused, only the other day I was being pursuaded on here by the idea that

You mean the poupils can have the dedcision made for them by apolitician acountable to the peope via an electoral system or they can have it thrust apon them by a teacher who is acountable in what way exactly

...followed by

Junkyard - Member
I have had a car, have driven for years, have fixed mine occasionally so I best get on to car designers and F1 and tell them where they are going wrong. The point is you have a little knowledge of the subject and yet some think they can preach to /at and criticise the actual experts.

you never did respond to my point about a teacher coming and doing this to you when you were doing your job did you. Would you take my unpalatable observations?

...its all too much. I need to sleep on it! Bon nuit.

[i]The problem with the education system is the parents. It's that simple, you can try to teach kids but when you send them back home to a bunch of retarded shit slinging monkeys then they regress. You can't teach children with no boundaries or discipline set at home.[/i]

Absolutely spot on. It's an ongoing thing.

I see it in prison, I see prisoners at first hand & I see visitors at first hand & I think, 'hardly surprising'
Not all prisoners/visitors though, just a fair majority.

So why do private schools have smaller classes and spend more per pupil?

anagallis_arvensis - Member
So why do private schools have smaller classes and spend more per pupil?

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

How many people "work" in your authority's EDS? 8)

The problem with the education system is the parents. It's that simple, you can try to teach kids but when you send them back home to a bunch of retarded shit slinging monkeys then they regress. You can't teach children with no boundaries or discipline set at home.

Absolutely spot on. It's an ongoing thing.

I see it in prison, I see prisoners at first hand & I see visitors at first hand & I think, 'hardly surprising'
Not all prisoners/visitors though, just a fair majority.

the first post by someone with no kids.

the second using 'prisoners' to extrapolate about societal problems

I blame god........

Time was, teaching was a respectable profession, you would ask a teacher or a magistrate to sign your passport photograph, they like the Police, were held with some respect within the community, now without going into the why's and wherefores of post modern political Britain, that sadly is no longer the case, because of the general drop off in standards, so when you find yourself having to correct mistakes of those paid to do a task, quite naturally that respect erodes. In my case I've witnessed four above average intelligent girls pass through private school, it would take a book rather than a forum post to detail all the anecdotal horrors of modern education even in private schools, but suffice to say the number of teachers that these days are worth their pay is a lot less than it was a while back imv.

As to that latest piece of work, it was a history project about the role of Women in Elizabethan England, we even had a family debate as to how it compared with Women in certain Muslim countries today as an ironical aside, but, it was as with most projects a googled wikifest enhanced only by the fact No4 daughter had created an artificial tea stain induced parchment effect. Probably this that drew the excellent marking, but nonetheless the written content was lacking as indicated and not marked as such, so I can only draw one conclusion from that, and that is either the teacher isn't aware of the 'they're their and there' difference of use and meaning or simply can't be asked, either way not a shining example for pupil or parent and certainly not the profession. If it were an isolated incident then it could be forgiven and forgotten, but it aint, at work I'm on the receiving end of CV's that you would think might be sub edited correctly, I've had University Educated types who don't know the meaning of some day to day phrases, words and their meanings, my eldest daughters having passed through University didn't even know who Admiral Nelson was and what he did.

All the Fundamentals are forgotten, human ability to communicate by reading and writing is paramount in any job as to a certain extent is elementary maths, the three rrr's the newspapers all crack on about, which it is the duty of all teaching folk to impart to the young, all the young not just a few and they aint doing it, it's as simple as that.

Sorry about the rant, I tried to stay away, but seriously teachers - no it's not the hours, or the money, sadly it's more likely second or third generation result of bad teachers before them, they probably don't actually know any different and lots just don't leave the system, out of school through college then become teacher and perpetuate the dross. Not everyone, but too many for comfort.

On a more humorous note anyone seen the Bad Teacher movie starring Cameron Diaz? Hilarious, don't you just love that woman?

my eldest daughters having passed through University didn't even know who Admiral Nelson was and what he did.

Ha ha, that made me laugh! You sound like my Mum berating me for not knowing the capital cities of all the worlds countries "despite doing Geography at A-level"*!

I'm mid 30's too!

* She'll never understand truncated valleys or plate tectonic theory though...