[Closed] Taking Your Child Out of School

No - but then again its none of my business!!

Very bad precedent IMHO

this thread wont end well, will prob go wrong before the 3rd page.... it involves parenting, schools, children and the possibility of more than one opinion.

shame really as kids missing school is an interesting thing to discuss

The school are unlikely to authorise it and it'll go down as unauthorised absence. Too many of those and this chap turns up at your door;

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if my child misses 3 - 4 week schooling over their lifetime for family events /cheap holidays whatever at non critical schooling times then i am fine with this.

Your call as to whether this meets this criteria or whatever criteria you choose to measure by

Poor precedence as she is doing it for hrself rather than what the child gains
If i was going to london and going to the museums and galleries and such like then i would be ok with this. If it wa sjust easier for me then tbh WTF did she have kids?

Too many of those and this chap turns up at your door;

TJ?

[i]TJ? [/i]

no, can't you see the bodged up child catching device - it's cynic-al, innit.

from what we understand dahhhn sarf, they're the same person wwaswas.

ah, that explains why they sound like Gollum and Smeagol having a chat when I read their threads.

Very bad precedent IMHO

+1

The school are unlikely to authorise it and it'll go down as unauthorised absence

The school are happy for kids to miss up to 5 (or 7?) days a year without good reason. I was pretty surprised when I heard this.

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My son started school in September too - but the school ok up to 5 days per year if you need 'em. Not sure if I'm keen to take him out, as I think that it's really important for them to be at school even at his age. His colouring in and papier mache skills have come on in leaps and bounds since he started.... But so have his letters and numbers!

Having worked with EWO the absence rate needs to be massive 50% + before they seriously act and have gone on for years. A few days and no one honestly cares though the school may tut at you

The school now has an obligation to tell the LA and mark it as unauthorised absence. Took my son out of school 3 days early to go on hols. Didn't get arrested and put with 'Bubba' in the showers though.

Can't see it doing any harm at their age, or being an extra burden on the teacher, which would be my main concern.

Just to stoke the fires a bit, haven't sent ours (4 and6) to school at all yet 😆

well 5 is the school starting age and i assume you are "educating otherwise" or abroad

The reality is if it's his first term all he's going to miss is a bit of playing and maybe making xmas decorations. But it really doesn't bode well for the future!

We have taken our 3 girls out of school for a total of about 2 weeks each in 6 years of primary school, all of which was requested/granted.

Eldest has now started her secondary education and before they started the headmaster sat all the new parents down and stated quite simply that ANY request for absence will be turned down unless it's to attend a funeral. Seems harsh but missing a week of term would very likely result in not being able to catch up as the workload is pretty massive.

Could you not just make a polite request to all the public sector lot on here? Get them to organise a strike for the days you want off?

You'd get your London jaunt in, guilt free. And they get to express their rage at our fascist overlord oppressors. Its a win/win!

I think at this age the work the child would miss is pretty irrelevant.

In my mind this has two issues.

1. Your wife has started down a rocky road of keeping your kids off schoool on a whim.

2. Your children will take this onboard and will not respect or understand the importance of being in school.

Could you not just make a polite request to all the public sector lot on here? Get them to organise a strike for the days you want off?

You'd get your London jaunt in, guilt free. And they get to express their rage at our fascist overlord oppressors. Its a win/win!

It could be win/win/win if you could also bum a lift on their 'protest bus' to London

They don't give a chuff when they close the school for days on end when a flake of snow hits the playground. What about the loss of education then?

I'd Keep him off.

My two are off next wednesday.

I've got to wait in for the new bathroom suite to be delivered though 🙁

They don't give a chuff when they close the school for days on end when a flake of snow hits the playground. What about the loss of education then?

I'd Keep him off.

Personally, I don't see a problem with it, just contact the school and keep your kid up to date with whatever they are going to miss.

My experience is they will refuse to "consent" but allow it. having said that, is he under 5? if so then he doesn't have to be in school by law!, reception is all fun and games to a degree and its not the end of the world to take the out for a few days, dont forget some kids dont join the class until after xmas (easter in some cases) and schools accept this!.

gravitysucks - Member
I think at this age the work the child would miss is pretty irrelevant.

In my mind this has two issues.

1. Your wife has started down a rocky road of keeping your kids off schoool on a whim.

2. Your children will take this onboard and will not respect or understand the importance of being in school.

I agree with this.

They don't give a chuff when they close the school for days on end when a flake of snow hits the playground. What about the loss of education then?

As an ex teacher I can tell you some of them give a whole lot of chuff.

The reality is if it's his first term all he's going to miss is a bit of playing and maybe making xmas decorations.

Your children will take this onboard and will not respect or understand the importance of being in school.

Agree with this sentiment.

To my mind, letting my kids miss school for no good reason is as bad as me pulling a sickie from work.

Which I don't do either, by the way 🙂

parents directing when/if their children go to school, seriously impacts the view of the school through the childs eyes with regard to respecting authority

IME its the same parents that take their kids out of school on any whim that also whinge and complain when the school is forced to shut due to strikes/weather/other unforeseen circumstance that leads to the necessary supervision levels not being met at school

EDIT: yeah and the same sort of people who happily pull a sickie. Lead by example, what sort of example are you going to set your children?

It sets a dangerous prescidence IMO. I wouldn't be happy about it either tbh, but them im old fashioned about children going to school, not being taken out for a day here and there on a parents whim.

If you're not prepared to make sacrifices to your lifestyle, then don't have children. The London trip is not essential or unavoidable. Death in the family etc is.
Im guessing that you and your wife are seperated? Otherwise you'd be asking her rather than us?

Did your children's school not do reading and writing in the first term then?

I remember when I was a kid, a couple of times a staff member coming into my class to ask for me, finding my parents outside needing to take me out of school for the day for 'family problems', getting into the car outside wondering what was going on, to be told 'Were off to the pictures'
My parents worked long hours and when they had a bit of free time chose to do something nice for me rather than themselves and it meant a lot. And probably taught me more than a day in school.

Is your wife taking them to London with her?

If so a would a trip to the Natural History, Science museum etc not be worth more than a few extra days sat in a classroom?

I'm guessing that you and your wife are seperated? Otherwise you'd be asking her rather than us?

Heh! No, we're happily married etc ... When I said 'my kids' in my original post I really should've said 'our kids'.

The London trip thing is more than just a whim as there are friends from Brazil visiting us & then going to stay with some other friends in London ... but this still doesn't necessitate the school absence.

This is our first child in school, and she's from Brazil where the attitude to schooling seems extremely relaxed, so she doesn't see any issue whatsoever with missing a few days 'just because'

i.e. we both have totally opposing opinions

I was just wondering whether I was being too stubborn on the subject.
From the comments thus far I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

Is your wife taking them to London with her?

He's being taken to London on 30th Dec by some good friends of ours who live there. I want him to come home on 3rd ready for school on 4th. My wife says let him stay with them all week and she'll travel down on 6th & bring him home that weekend.

I know he'll have a great time etc, but the bottom line for me is it's not a justifiable reason to miss the first 3 days of term.

If so a would a trip to the Natural History, Science museum etc not be worth more than a few extra days sat in a classroom?

If this were the case, yes it probably would. We're taking him to Blue Planet Aquarium if his school's closed on 30th for the strikes. 🙂

As an ex teacher I can tell you some of them give a whole lot of chuff.

That's as mibbe but As a parent who asked why the school was closed it was due to H & S to save the teachers driving to school in the snow. On the days it was open they were all bunged into one class for a DVD fest as some still couldnt manage in. I have never missed a days work due to the weather, however I'm sure this subject will be revisited very soon.

Sometimes I get the impression if people had to pay for schooling they might actually realise how important it is, but because its free they seem to think it should fit around there social lives.

Schooling is free?

I'm probably having mine out for 5 days to go skiing. 😳 because it's loads cheaper out of half term. I think they'll be fine but I'm sure the head will be pissed off.

Oh well you're only young once.

Here's some interesting reading:

As for what harm does it do, according to the study:

• Most LEAs and teachers said that absence led to underachievement.
• Primary school teachers thought this was because absence broke the
continuity of learning and pupils missed important work.
• No pattern of absence would not be damaging, but teachers were divided as
to which pattern of absence was the most damaging.
• Teachers could not always give truants the help they needed to make up
lost time.
• Secondary school teachers believed that academic underachievement would
damage children’s future job prospects.
• Secondary school teachers thought that truanting behaviour was difficult to
change because it is cyclical.
• Pupils who were often absent were said to have trouble making and
keeping friends. Poor attenders’ friendship groups shrank and eventually
closed, leading to further isolation.
• Primary school staff thought that on returning to school, poor attenders
suffered a loss of confidence due to the fact that they are unable to
understand the work.
• Secondary school staff thought that this loss of confidence led to attention
seeking and disruptive behaviour.
• Most of the teachers thought unacceptable absences had a negative effect
on peer relationships.
• Secondary school truants underplayed the effects of their absences, but a
few knew their work had suffered.
• Many LEAs and teachers believed regular attenders were affected when
truants returned through the diversion of teacher time and class disruption.

Personally I would be pissed off if my kid was being held back, because some other kids parents wanted a cheap skiing holiday.

Mind you someone has to take all those McDonalds jobs I suppose.

[i]you someone has to take all those McDonalds jobs I suppose.[/i]

A Polish bloke with a degree, usually...

So you're saying that planning a 5 day absence to do a physical activity in another country for a child that has a otherwise perfect attendance record leads to Macdonalds?

I obviously disagree. My sister in law took hers out for two weeks to visit family in NZ as it was considerably less expensive in term time and my niece caught up quickly and recently passed 9 GCSEs with very good grades.

Depends on the child and the family I'd say. For the sake of 2k I'll risk it.

If you want to ignore the scientific research to get a cheap holiday that's upto you, however to claim it 'does them no harm' is bollocks and you know it, and there is evidence to support that. Hence your defensiveness over putting your own interests (to go on a cheap holiday) above that of your children's welfare.

My issue is less with you retarding your kids chances, and more with the impact it has on others.

depends on cause and effect though. Do kids who are off school do worse? yes.

do they do worse because they are off school, or do they do worse as their parents are the kind who are more likely to take them out of school (and are thus, probably, parents who value their education less?) difficult to answer

I suspect the difference it makes depends when it is though. 2 or 3 days before they break up for Christmas, well, they don't do any work that week anyway. Same for the end of the summer term before the holidays.

Oh I see it's about me being selfish, well no worries I'll agree with you on that. I'll be sure to wear a sackcloth on the slopes. I'm happy that my kids are confident, outgoing boys who get out and do stuff I reckon 5 days is not the end of the world.

missing the first 3 days of term - even if thats no academic disadvantage will it not be a social one? Those first days of term where kids sort out who sits where and get to know each other and find their way around?

I'm happy that my kids are confident, outgoing boys

Well according to the research, not for long:

• Primary school staff thought that on returning to school, poor attenders
suffered a loss of confidence due to the fact that they are unable to
understand the work.
• Secondary school staff thought that this loss of confidence led to attention
seeking and disruptive behaviour.
• Most of the teachers thought unacceptable absences had a negative effect
on peer relationships.

Well worth reading the research paper, so at least you know the impacts of your choices, as I said its your choice but don't try and pretend 'it will do them no harm', and/or 'its good for them' as that's total rubbish and you know it.

So you're saying that planning a 5 day absence to do a physical activity in another country for a child that has a otherwise perfect attendance record leads to Macdonalds?

I think Macdonalds is the very upper scale of ambition. That's if you're lucky. It'll more than likely be Broadmoor. Via child prostitution and drug dealing obviously. Taking your kids out of school for a couple of days? I'm getting social services on yo ass. Its tantamount to child abuse, quite frankly. You're not fit to be a parent!

How old? My August-born second son started full time at 4yrs and 1 month. He was far too young, but the school said full-time or they could not hold his place until the summer. His older son didn't start until the term before he was five - summer term. This was much more satisfactory.

If he's five before Christmas, I'd say no, school is full-time. Otherwise fine.

I did remove my eldest son or an educational visit to Heathrow to watch the last landing of the three Concordes, also both missed a week as part of a trip to the US.

I wouldn't personally do it without good reason, but tbh, in reception year, I'd be fairly relaxed about it as a one-off.

If your kid gets chickenpox, then they'll be off for at least a week, and as a huge number of kids get it within a couple of years of starting school, I think scare stories about educational underachievement may be slightly overstated.

It's pretty obvious that kids who have more than occasional absences are likely to underachieve, but even this is likely to be due to more than one factor (perhaps more likely the underlying environment which leads to absence) - ie correlation rather than causation.

to the OP (cos I can't be assed wading through all the pish)
I wouldn't worry about it - attendance records aren't even compulsory for reception year children, that's how unimportant it is. I wouldn't get in to the habit mind you.

Seems harsh but missing a week of term would very likely result in not being able to catch up as the workload is pretty massive

My next door neighbour was stuck in Gran Canaria with his family last year with the volcano dust
He phoned the school to let them know and the HM told him he wasn't allowed to keep them off school and it would be recorded as unauthorised

his kids are now obviously doomed to a life of destitution

I value education highly however I also value having fun and living life. I ought to be shot for my lack of care for my kids.

My stance is that school is important & there's no way my kids are missing it unless there's a really good reason.

You are right. Taking kids out of school for any reason isn't good but taking them out to fit in with someone's social calendar is just ridiculous.

This is our first child in school, and she's from Brazil where the attitude to schooling seems extremely relaxed, so she doesn't see any issue whatsoever with missing a few days 'just because'

But your child is in school in the UK? not Brazil?

I would not let my child miss the start of a new term just so they can go visit some friends. Thats ridiculous.

Fast forward to secondary school when your child is bunking off to go and see friends....what would you say? you should lead by example.

My parents run a shop in a seaside town so there was absolutely no way they could take us on holiday during the school holidays so we always went in June and September.
September was a bit more disruptive as it was at the beginning of the year when I was making new friends and settling into a new routine but it didn't do me any harm in the longterm. Certainly less harm than never having a family holiday would have done.

Do it. Less competition for my daughter when she makes it to the real world.

it didn't do me any harm in the longterm

I KNEW thre was something about you - now I know! 😉

For me this is a parental judgement. Would I take my kids out of school to do not a lot at home or a mates house? No. Would I take them on a round the world trip with visits, other cultures and adventures? You bet ya. Watch me around Christmas 2012 🙂

Why not eh?

As a deputy head of a Pupil Referral Unit I can confirm that there is no correlation between parental attitudes towards casual absenteeism, lack of respect/punctuality, low grades/self-esteem/social skills and a prolonged stay in my school.
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oh, hang on a minute...

Those first days of term where kids sort out who sits where and get to know each other and find their way around?

You honestly think P1s sort out where they sit?
and I think they might just already know each other (and their way round) fairly well seeing as it's the second term.

🙄

kid'll miss very little, if you're really worried, ask the teacher what she/he'll be teaching at the start of term, it won't be a whole lot.

Won't matter a jot, not exactly doing much when they first start school

Was pretty relaxed with my daughter, we sometimes went away for long weekends and the occasional holiday in term time. Even at secondary school she had the odd day off here and there if something else more interesting came up

Left with 12 gcse's, 3 good A levels and is in her last year of an Optometry degree, so not exactly a failure because of it.

Most of us welcome kids staying out of school, after all make life easy for us. Being a teacher i want to do as little as possible for as little time as i can and get paid a wacking great salary. Then retire at 45 with a 80k pension.

Its a great life you all should try it.

Happy days.

p.s. word of advice keep a back up plan as you will prob not last a week.

GW - hence the question marks

The school does not grant permission. You simply tell them why your child is not in school, and they record it appropriately. In this case it will be UPH - Unauthorised Parental Holiday. The Local Authority won't prick it's ears up until a child has had 2 weeks out of school. If you regularly exceed 2 weeks, you may be given advice/reminded of your obligations.

The school is under no obligation to provide work or information for the days you miss.

100s of kids miss school for holidays every year at my school. It is not ideal, but it is reality.

hence the question marks

I was talking to my sister last night. The school my two nephews attend allow up to 10 days term time absence.

Apparently some parents treat this as additional holiday allowance and make sure their children use all 10 days each year.

😕

I should imagine that's because all parents know what's best for their kids, especially when it involves planning their own social life, just like they know its never them when there is trouble.

Mind you I expect its the same parents who blame everything on the teachers when they find out little timmy is the thickest in the class, and the most disruptive and its going to leave school without any qualifications.

Who needs experts or research into this, when every parent is bestowed with this knowledge at the instant of conception of their first born.

FFS! it's never Timmy

I should imagine that's because all parents know what's best for their kids, especially when it involves planning their own social life, just like they know its never them when there is trouble.

Mind you I expect its the same parents who blame everything on the teachers when they find out little timmy is the thickest in the class, and the most disruptive and its going to leave school without any qualifications.

Who needs experts or research into this, when every parent is bestowed with this knowledge at the instant of conception of their first born.

Now you're starting to sound like Hora.

Bit of a poor rant there. Some of us make informed and considered decisions, you know, and can still come to different conclusions to yours.

richc was being sarcsastic I think (?)

At least, that's how I read it ...

Personally I think the OPs suggestion that home on the 3rd for a return to school is the right compromise.

Can you take them all out with you please.

My Sis would be very greatful, shes a Headmistress and in need of a few more hours off "work".