[Closed] Taking kids out of school

At worst it will go down as an unauthorised absence. You'd have to do it regularly before it triggered any action. You could lie and say she's ill, but I would just be honest and explain what's happening. It's not like you won't be able to 'bridge the learning gap' in Year 1. Get her to make a holiday diary, collect stuff to stick in, picture a day etc, learn some foreign vocabulary.

Lying is pointless as children can't keep it up, as above if there is some learning involved then it probably won't be looked at so unfavourably

Please absolutely do something mind expanding while away.
Don't get back and ask for catch up work. (It'll not be needed at that age and it'll cause a bit of a teacher meltdown)

Great thanks! Do you think its worth asking the head before on the off chance?

What i don't want to do is ask then he says no and i do it anyway.

I'd ask 3 days isn't going to break the bank.

A few years back I went to see the head to ask permission for a couple of days off for a lapland trip. I said "we're going, how best do you want me to explain it to the school?"

She told me to ask for permission and she'd decline it, but I think that helped the school's absence stats.

She also told us to have a great trip 😁

FWIW, some families in school massively take the piss and have kids out more than once per term for more than a week at a time. You're doing the right thing if you're worried about it, but there's no real need to. Year 1 is pretty low level stuff.

Definitely ask. Don't be the ones that constantly go away and pretend they are ill.
Be a good person and be honest.
Honest people never get anywhere but have a conscience.

Just do it. You'll have to notify school anyway, so either ask and they can say no or just tell them what you're doing. Enjoy 🙂

Thanks again feel much less worried about doing it now.

Or... You could just not go on the holiday. 🙂

You could, but if it’s a one-off, and especially a one off in Y1 there’s no harm in it.

DOI haven’t ever done this, but at Easter due to school giving out the wrong holiday dates are away for the last week of term.

We've done it twice. Once for a two week holiday, and once for a day. Both times we just told the head what we were doing. No issues.

Done it twice. Once for a week in California - we were considering emigrating and I was out there for interviews already. And once for the last landing of Concorde at Heathrow. Educational visit to something he still remembers today. The Primary school was fine for both when the reasons were given. Now he's at Uni, they couldn't care if he turns up. Unlike the funder of his course (me).

Just don't expect the teacher to catch her up.

Just don’t expect the teacher to catch her up.

I don’t think the teacher is invited.

Is the plan to ask for permission or would you go on the holiday whatever the response? Might be best to inform the school but not actually ask permission in case they refuse and then you look like a dick for going anyway.

yea thats what i was thinking why ask if i'm doing it anyway

Reading the LEA can skip the fine and go straight to a proscution but i doubt that would happen if she has had a 100% attendance record before??

We’ve done it on a couple of occasions in the past and simply notified the school.

They said they couldn’t approve it but nothing further occurred. I got the impression that provided attendance was otherwise ‘normal’ it was tacitly accepted.

Reading the LEA can skip the fine and go straight to a proscution but i doubt that would happen if she has had a 100% attendance record before??

They won't even blink. You'd need to miss weeks, or regularly miss days every week before it would go anywhere. As a guide (ex teacher and now governor) if attendance is above 95%, it's not even questioned.
Tell them you are going and why it's important to your family that you do go, and outline what educational opportunities will be provided - "We'll keep reading with them and do numeracy work etc, etc"
Don't make a habit of it - teachers and schools at taken to task over attendance issues and are accountable to governors and LEAs/Academy bosses/OfSted

We do this every year for a minimum of a week, and always have done. We tell the school. Politely. Both kids are in the year above their age level anyway and always get good reports. They probably learn more on holiday anyway.
That said the school they've been at the last year or so is somewhat unconventional.

They probably learn more on holiday anyway.

How old are they? What do you get up to?

The wording in the (standard) letter from the school will make you feel like a crim but it’s all theatrics to make sure you understand it’s not the done thing.

It will go down as unauthorised for stats purposes but until you hit a threshold it means nothing.

8 and 10 now, when they were younger we'd take activity books with us or homeschool-style books. They both love reading and because we spend our time in the countryside we're surrounded by learning opportunities. We have field guides and the inaturalist app. They can already correct me on spider identification, etc.

I took my son out of school loads for various cycling trips and did get called in once by the education authority for not being a responsible parent with regard to his education. I guess they are just following their rules.

Currently deciding which Oxford college to apply to next year.

Currently deciding which Oxford college to apply to next year.

If he'd spent more time in education you could have been looking at Cambridge 😎

Personally we've tried to avoid it with our kids but I think there has been a day where we were doing some sort of family thing post covid lockdown. My view of it is:

- Taking kids out of school for one or 2 weeks a year because you "need" a holiday you basically can't afford? Not cool - get a tent and join the rest of us.
- Taking kids out of school for 1 off or exceptional events - maybe

What happens next year, or the year after etc when there's another " great free(ish) holiday" - at what point will you stop?

What Rich_s said.

We took ours out for a few days a couple of times. Discussed with the head. Unauthorised absences both times.

One time was to visit Tanzania to visit the various places my in-laws have been assisting with aid. Took over a whole bunch of materials the schoolchildren had collected: pens, modelling clay, etc.

Can’t recall the other time but it might have been to visit relatives in the USA.

We did with the boy. In Sheffield though any such absence is an automatic fine and it is per parent per child (ie me and Mrs D both got fined).

We just priced it in to the holiday. You could pull a sickie but kids are useless at keeping their mouths shut.

We've missed a few days at the end of term a couple of times.

They could have been in school doing quizes or watching DVD's. Or they could have been canoeing a river in Southern France.....

It's not a decision to take lightly, and there is a hefty dose of selfishness around me valuing our canoeing (or biking, etc) over school, but that's the parenting decision we take.

– Taking kids out of school for one or 2 weeks a year because you “need” a holiday you basically can’t afford? Not cool – get a tent and join the rest of us.
– Taking kids out of school for 1 off or exceptional events – maybe

Seeing as the conversation has reached this point, that's our view as well. Different if you're visiting an aid project in Tanzania or some of richpips travels, rather than sitting on a beach or dumping them in a kids club, and also accepting that their attendance or attainment also need to be considered.

Sadly, as too many parents took the piss and made it harder for head teachers to be pragmatic, stupid rules are required to cater for the lowest common denominator

Ours have only had weeks off school to attend sporting or musical activities, which the schools authorised anyway. Need to get our application in for LittleMissMC to go to Eurogym in July.

I'm not sure how "we must have something we can't afford" became a socially acceptable example to set children, but that's my old fashioned view and it doesn't seem to be doing any harm to wider society.

wouldnt worry me. not as if they havent already missed a year of proper schooling.

we take ours out for a week every year for the ski holiday, no way were doing that at HT. we have been fined once. The school itself has always been understanding though.

How old is the kid?
If sub 5 then no problem.

PS, in the unlikely event you want more ( like 200 pages) up to date info then head over to Snowheads. It's full of this question

It totally depends on YOUR KIDS school and Education authority.
My kids primary sent a email with unauthorised absence threats with every single communication. (and I mean every one, including summer fete, out of hours clubs etc.)

I asked for permission for my father's funeral and got told what amounted to "we won't tell you until after the funeral" along with a threat letter. This was complex for us as his Mum taught at the same school or I'd have just taken him anyway and a see you in court email.

On the other side my mate took his kids out of yrs 3 and 5 (different school/education authority) for a YEAR and had no problems.

So I'd say if the school are obsessed with sending threatening letters and emails I'd just do and inform them, pay the fine or go to court if you feel strongly. If they are reasonable you can maybe ask first.

Your daughter is in year 1. She will not miss out or end up behind by missing 3 days of school. Don't take any schoolwork away with you. Keep school and home/family/holiday separate. The most academic thing she should do is write a postcard to Granny.

Just write to school and say daughter won't be in school on those dates. I wouldn't even give a reason. If the school want one make them ask for it.

You'll receive a grumpy letter to file in the recycling.

Suppose it depends on what is deciding it is is 'great' holiday - is it great due to it being cheap? Or is it great as you won't be able to do it ever again?

I'm going to come across as wrong, but if it is 'great' due to a cheap price then I'd be giving it a miss, but then I'm definitely of the opinion that kids shouldn't be missing school. Many will disagree with that thinking but I'm not too bothered about that.

If it is 'great' because it is unique and unlikely to happen again and will provide some learning/enrichment then I'd be more tempted to get it done.

A holiday to sit by a pool really isn't worth it in my view (but then I also don't consider that a holiday, more a prison sentence!).

Year 1? I wouldn't, she'll never be able to catch up with her crayoning again.

For a child in year one I don't think they are going to fall too far behind with just 3 days out, I would ask and then go anyway. I took mine out for 2.5 weeks back in 2019 for a long trip and I don't think they have fallen behind at all only got a fine for the eldest in secondary because his attendance was below 95%, even with me home schooling them for 3months last years they seem to be doing ok 🤣.

It's an unauthorised absence. I'd just be honest with the school and pay the fine without complaining in the unlikely event that you receive one.

Just do it...

I assume you are talking about year 1 primary rather than year 1 senior school ?
3 days isn't going to make any difference if its the former.
We never do it unless necessary, and my wife sends a note to the teacher telling them why and what we are doing. Not asking them, just informing them politely.

Year 1? I wouldn’t, she’ll never be able to catch up with her crayoning again.

100% - look what happened to Binners!

He could have been lording it up on the London art circuit by now if it weren't for those few days off at primary school. Instead he's scrabbling for commissions from middle-aged blokes on a mountain bike forum! 🙂

I’m going to come across as wrong, but if it is ‘great’ due to a cheap price then I’d be giving it a miss, but then I’m definitely of the opinion that kids shouldn’t be missing school. Many will disagree with that thinking but I’m not too bothered about that.

I'm with you, though I get the "only Year 1" point. I'm old fashioned enough to think there's a point of principle about school attendance.

Intrigued by the idea that it's only another week after they've missed so much this last couple of years. Doesn't help any schools trying to catch up.

Aye.

More seriously, I am generally against taking kids out of school. They're there for a reason.

Having a partner who's a TA and having dated over the years at least two teachers, I'm fairly well versed in the raw entitlement that some parents feel and I'm largely of the opinion "suck it up, if you wanted cheap holidays then you should've thought about that before you reproduced."

However. It's Year 1. It's a couple of days and she's not in the middle of a quantum physics degree. I'm really not seeing the harm here so long as it's a one-off.

Having a partner who’s a TA and having dated over the years at least two teachers, I’m fairly well versed in the raw entitlement that some parents feel and I’m largely of the opinion “suck it up, if you wanted cheap holidays then you should’ve thought about that before you reproduced.”

Humm before we get to judgmental - to clarify my own circumstances (not that its relevant) its a free holiday its not like i'm trying to save £300. Its a family event. I either go or i don't. I f i do then i don't have to pay flight/accom but the date can't change on my behalf. But it is still basically a holiday (of sorts)

I find my self in this situation, i was not intending to take time of school. Thus asking about the legal/moral implications of school absense.

But anyway who is to say if people *need* a holiday or not, some people have had a torrid couple of years. Mental well being is important.

*Cheap* is also realtive. Perhaps peoples circumstances mean the variance is the difference between going or not.

AS an asside, some people have reproduced by accident you know, but doing the best they can.

I’m with you, though I get the “only Year 1” point. I’m old fashioned enough to think there’s a point of principle about school attendance.

I think i'm looking at taking of the same number of days holiday as the school does inset days 😉

I think i’m looking at taking of the same number of days holiday as the school does inset days

Could you explain how that is relevant?

she will miss 3 days of school.

Just like she misses two days of school every weekend?

she will miss 3 days of school.

So it's not relevant, kids don't miss school for inset days they still get the number of days schooling as directed by law

Just like she misses two days of school every weekend?

you know schools are closed at weekends?

Having a partner who’s a TA and having dated over the years at least two teachers,

So, Mr Cougar, tell me about your childhood.....🤔

you know schools are closed at weekends?

There must be a gif somewhere for this.

So, Mr Cougar, tell me about your childhood…..🤔

Well, first I was flown over from Florida...

@pat12 I was on your side but as a teacher that last post now make you look like a bit of a ****. I used a much less offensive word than the swear filter would suggest.

Ultimately it is your choice but as I posted before, I wouldn't but for me it is a principal thing - they are meant to be at school so unless they are too ill to go then they should be there (aware that makes me sound like an incredibly boring person, but I apply the same thinking to myself).
What happens next year when it happens again and then repeats again and again?

@pat12 I was on your side but as a teacher that last post now make you look like a bit of a ****. I used a much less offensive word than the swear filter would suggest.

i know but i thought that was the way this thread seemed to be going. (ref don't have kids if you want holidays)

i did put a wink thingy - hopefully indicating that i don't actually believe it. #beingfacetious etc

You did read the second half of my post where I agreed with you, right?

Well, first I was flown over from Florida…

Lol or too soon?

i did. still took objection to the first half though.

What happens next year, or the year after etc when there’s another ” great free(ish) holiday” – at what point will you stop?

That's the terrible thing about free holidays, isn't it? There's always another one a few months away. We have so many that we need to give them to our neighbours - kids barely in school, I'm awol from work, drunk on Sex on the Beach constantly. Last time we checked there were only 2 kids in my daughter's class, out of 56. 😀

paying for holidays is a mugs game.

I have no idea if this has been said or not, but normally schools just want to ensure they have good attendance levels and unauthorised absence counts against that. However they cannot authorise absence unless there is a genuine reason.

For example:
'We want to go on holiday' - unauthorised'
"My partner is a GP and we can only take a holiday at this time due to their commitments' - authorised

We took our girls out for a couple of weeks when they were Y4 (for a month-long trip to Dubai, Australia and Hong Kong) – I just got my business partner to write a letter saying that due to client project work, it was the only time I could have holiday. The head teacher knew full well what we were doing but she had a letter so her arse was covered. We did get the girls to keep a daily picture diary of their adventures and they did a show and tell when they got back to school though.

Rich_s
Full Member

A few years back I went to see the head to ask permission for a couple of days off for a lapland trip. I said “we’re going, how best do you want me to explain it to the school?”

She told me to ask for permission and she’d decline it, but I think that helped the school’s absence stats.

She also told us to have a great trip 😁

I'd recommend this approach - be honest. We've taken my son out of school a couple of times in the first week of the spring term to take him skiing in France. We spoke to the head and said we'd like to do this, we know it's not really within the rules, how do we go about it? The headteacher said officially it's unauthorised absence so will go on his record, but they're not remotely concerned about this sort of thing, it's the kids who average 4 days out of 5 and whose parents don't care that they worry about.

Anecdotally, I think most local authorities will only issue a fine if it's a complete week of school or more that's missed. The head said as the first day of term was an inset day (both years) it wasn't a complete week being missed anyway so wouldn't even raise an auto flag in terms of attendance data. I've heard from other parents that a midweek-to-midweek break also means no complete weeks of school missed.

Unless your child is struggling at school and / or has missed a lot of school, academically it's not an issue. Think of how many kids have been out for a couple of weeks isolating in the last year, most primary teachers I know are permanently revising the last week's lessons each day for all the kids who need to catch up. And in year one, a week of something culturally different and a chance to travel is probably significantly more educational than whatever might have been covered at school on those days anyway!

Year 1, free holiday. I wouldn't think twice have a great time with the family

I’d recommend this approach – be honest.

+1. I don't really agree with doing it, but if you do, don't make up some bullshit about how you simply must have this holiday and how it is going to somehow enrich your kids' life experiences. As per other posts, I don't suppose the school will be bothered unless there's already a poor attendance record.

i did. still took objection to the first half though.

Sorry if you thought that was directed at you. I did say "generally," it wasn't intended as a slight on yourself.

AS an asside, some people have reproduced by accident you know, but doing the best they can.

By substituting education with a cheaper holiday? 🙂

I'm being facetious, of course. For disclosure, Mrs Pondo is a secondary teacher and this thread popped up at a singularly appropriate time, albeit primary being a very different beast.

Been tough times at her school - they've had a shit head, he's now gone, months of no leadership while a MAT dithered, now they've been taken over. As subject lead, Mrs Pondo agreed to a phased alignment with the MAT co-design strategy, picking bits of their ill-resourced plan when the strategy lead deigned to share it, with full alignment from September. New head arrived last term, spent a few weeks finding his feet then on Monday Mrs Pondo came home in tears - the directive was now that they had to align with the MAT's co-design strategy from Monday. So all the time she spent planning, writing schemes of work, resourcing for her non-specialist teachers over the October half term and Christmas breaks, all that unpaid overtime goes in the bin. Worse, the tears are because she literally sees no way to do what he wants in the timescale given in light of the current workload - she's already working weekends, she has to cater for kids testing positive, kids otherwise not in, plan and write cover lessons for teachers absent through covid and other reasons as well as providing cover herself, for her scheduled break and lunch duties but also for absent teachers, as well as delivering cover lessons herself and marking the work her pupils have done.

Then on Wednesday afternoon, that stops - Ofsted are in tomorrow and ALL the focus has to be on that, they want to speak to her too, so now she has to prep for that, learning and explaining an ill-resourced co-design strategy that she doesn't understand and reviewing a 30 page Ofsted subject guide, in a crucible that can potentially destroy her school, if she or anyone else screws it up, all in front of the new boss, and all with the new co-design deadlines sitting there laughing. Oh - and did I tell you it's parents evening tonight?

It went ok today, she thinks/hopes, Ofsted are not back tomorrow - but all of that work she feared, that had her in tears, that's all still sitting there to be done. So no weekend this weekend, just as there wasn't last weekend.

I've dreaded going to work, I've headed there really not wanting to be there, and I've had days where I've not gone in because I xouldn't face it. But I have NEVER had days where I've gone in entirely unable to see how I can do what I have to, and I've never had days where, already overworked, I've had to cheerily represent even though I don't understand the plan because no-one can explain it to me and if I **** it up it's to the detriment of the entire school, and I've never had to work through holidays and weekends not to get ahead, but just to keep from drowning.

I'm not saying all teachers will work themselves to the verge of a breakdown through a sense of duty, but many, most do. But please - sweet baby Jesus please - please do not just go "**** it, that'll save £200" and take your kid out solely because you got a bargain, and not just because you can take advantage and I can't. 🙂 If you don't think education is important, or you think there are better means, just withdraw your child and either home-school or send them where you choose - don't leave them half in and out. Teachers are busting their guts to deliver the best education they can, and everything you do that does not support the school, be it supporting misbehaviour (yep, happens), or not supporting the school from home, or dragging them out of class because of cheap holidays, it effects the teachers and that knocks on to the rest of their classmates.

Goodness I've been pious! 🙂 TL:DR Don't take em out

Brilliant post pondo.

It's just a week. It might be to you, but across a big secondary school, it's what, 200 weeks a year? Nearly 4 years of schooling lost every school year?

Show some respect to the teachers, and the school. It might teach your kids an even more valuable life lesson.

@pondo I feel mrsP's pain.
I've been a head of dept, and taught high fliers to those struggling with all sorts, been lead in a behaviour unit and an "ordinary" teacher.
I've been in for 20years and if my mortgage was paid off I'd walk tomorrow. Every day is a struggle. I was running along the roadside a few months ago with big lorries coming the other way and thought "I can see why people just step out". Education is in crisis but full of people who break themselves to cover the cracks or yes men who won't see the cracks.

IME the school will refuse. We took our five year old out for a week a couple of years back. Got fined £60 per parent with the threat of a massive fine if we did it again within two years. I was under the impression that they couldn’t fine you for less than a week. I could be wrong on that though…