[Closed] Swinley - how is it funded?

If TTS set up a PayPal account I reckon they'd get a few quid. I live locally and still have a collection of old permit bands on my pack, so wouldn't mind helping out in that way if I can't make the dig days etc. I just wonder whether cash is the constraint on their work though or whether it's all the ce & natural England red tape plus scheduling the folks to do the work.

Worth point out though that Swinley isn't a dedicated trail centre. It's a leisure facility used by a lot more than mountain bikers. It's only since the official trail network was built that bike numbers have vastly increased. CE used to consider mountain bikes very secondary to the main users. Weekdays the majority in the car park are likely mums and weekends there are still a large amount of families going for walks or to use the cafe and play area or the Lookout Discovery Centre. Possibly the majority.

Sorry but it's short sighted views like this that are having a damaging affect.

Not short sighted, I see your point, but I'm pretty sure in the Swinley case that the council owned cafe and car park don't fund the trails in any way shape or form.

There was some hoo-haa over the overflow car park which is owned by CE not the council, despite the lookout car park being full most weekends in the summer they wouldn't allow CE to turn their end into a proper car park.

As someone else said, I'm not paying £100 for a season ticket to ride the trails, when that money doesn't go into the trails, and when it used to be £10 and the money did go on the trails.

Never heard or seen any local resident objections to the trails (beyond NIMBY objections to their very existence, rather than car parking etc). It's not like the area is short of free car parks

the car park owners and cafe owners often give large donations

I was adding context that there are wider issues in which trail centres exist. I want talking about Swinley specifically but trail centre issues country wide. I rode Swinley back in the day of the permit. I'm certainly not aware of how there funded as part of Crown Estates? I have a year permit where I live and covers whe forest parking. £23 I think on last renewal. I think the cost of things touches on the wider debate of councils their spending and accountability. There's certainly plenty of success stories around the country where groups are making improvements

@hooli and @bigyim I pay to be a friend of Hurtwood (Surrey Hills) and always put a £1 in the collection cairn, donate to various projects eg Lady Canning a trail I will probably never ride, a bit to QECP. As @scott said zero of the QECP car parking charge goes to the trails. I probably ride Swinley once every 2 years and have ridden at QECP once, each 30 mins away. Bridleways and roads I pay for with my taxes.

Cinnamon Girl - I live close enough to Moors Valley to ride there but I know a lot of people just park around the Ringwood Forest entrances at Ashley Heath, by the old railway line or Verwood Road and just ride in as parking on site is extortionate. Not been up there for a while, is that deathtrap watchmoor jumps area still going?

cinnamon girl, those prices a bargain compared to my local.. scroll down to admission charges

It's similar at Thetford, but again there's other cheap/free options, although to be fair to Thetford High Lodge, there's LOADS to do for families and the yearly pass is pretty good value.

Again, unsure of the trail building relationship with TIMBER, but my personal experience is the FC have a very proactive view towards mountain biking and its development.

cinnamon girl, those prices a bargain compared to my local.. scroll down to admission charges

@ dlr - that's unbelievable! Does anyone actually use the car park or even the trails?

Cinnamon Girl - I live close enough to Moors Valley to ride there but I know a lot of people just park around the Ringwood Forest entrances at Ashley Heath, by the old railway line or Verwood Road and just ride in as parking on site is extortionate. Not been up there for a while, is that deathtrap watchmoor jumps area still going?

@ redstripe - I was given some good information from here about where to park for free but my worry is having my car broken into, not that I leave anything valuable in it. It seems that the place is pretty much funded by car parking charges, that doesn't sit easy with me when it's effectively public land and a public facility that's available to those who can afford to pay.

Have only been there the once, it was good for a quiet ride on the single track. Sorry, don't know about a jumps area.

Hello, Sue from TrailTeam Swinley here. Interesting thread. To put the debate to rest, The Crown Estate do get some money from Bracknell Forest Council from the car park fees, which contributes to the materials used to maintain the trails. TTS are looking into how we can get more funding and/or sponsorship so good to know that there is interest in a direct contribution to the trails. Please like us on Facebook (

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Thanks for reply Sue. We get similar for funding materials. Hopefully it helps riders to understand some of the wider issues and funding routes.

We certainly have a trail fund box in the cafe 🙂

We also get donations from local clubs, event organisers etc

Trail fund box is a good idea, id certainly bung some money in if i knew it was going towards upkeep/more berms.

Trail fund box is a good idea, id certainly bung some money in if i knew it was going towards upkeep/more berms.

+1

CG - re: Moors Valley Parking - it's the little choo choo train, having that they can charge what they like 😀

cinnamon girl, only 1 trail....there is a local club and joining them puts funds back into the trail. The car park money just goes to the global FC pot....granted there is a lot of "stuff" to do there for kids etc but the mtb side is tiny, there are nearby places to park and ride in though

Trail fund box is a good idea, id certainly bung some money in if i knew it was going towards upkeep/more berms.

Can we have a 'skid box' on Deerstalker? A bit like a swear box, but funding the braking bump's! 😛

Cinnamon girl

MV costs £9 for a whole day for a carload of adults/ kids.. in peak season. There's loads to do there.

My sisters kids spent a whole day there, we took a picnic and they hardly scratched the surface.

There's not many places where you get that much play value for less than £2 a person..

Everything costs money to run thesedays. There's loads of public land with no facilities and cheap or free car parking but if you want the draw of a country park and the facilities it offers its gonna cost you.

The pricing structure means that its cheaper to visit in the off peak times. If you go there and ride the blue trail saturday am and leave before 10 am it'll cost a quid any time of the year.

The MTB side is really to get kids and new adults interested in mtb trails and get confidence and skills up. it is also a nice trail with a bit of speed.

MV gets about 900000 visitors a year do they must be doing something right...

All trailcentres are the same, as soon as you build an info point, toilets car park and some trails it costs a lot to empty bins, take your Cr*p away, keep things inspected and maintained and refreshed.

There's not many truly commercial ventures making big bucks out of visitor centres or trail centres. The reasons they were put into S Wales and Scotland, North of England int he first place was all about economic development and getting rural areas regenerated that had lost out as heavy industry departed. No w the reality of running these places with govt and FC funding cut is that it's hard work, despite the numbers of people involved.

There are 2 trail build days coming up if anyone's interested - Thursday 28th April and Saturday 7th May. Working on the Freeride Area - the sign-up sheet's here [url= https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J5b9ywKdtmhWQw7JoWZRQB8wQunVQ_BT4jd1vYExfrw ]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J5b9ywKdtmhWQw7JoWZRQB8wQunVQ_BT4jd1vYExfrw[/url]
Sue - TTS

@ burko73 - yes, I do understand your points and I don't have a problem with paying for parking but their pricing structure smacks of greediness. How on earth can they justify higher charges in school holidays? They can't, imo. Does the cafe charge higher prices in school holidays? Or Go Ape?

I went on my own only to ride some gentle single track and pretty much had it to myself. Could of course be argued that it was good value! I took my own lunch and flask cos I'm tight but also didn't fancy being surrounded by badly behaved kids.

It may be good value for families such as yours but those parking charges can drive away people like me.

burko73 - you don't happen to be the FC district manager who oversees Moors Valley do you?

😆 ^

Might be.... 😉

Might not.... 😉

Sounded a bit too much like corporate speak to try and justify. You've been exposed Mr Burke, pretending to be a punter...... 😳
Actually I like it there but will continue to ride in now just to wind you up ha ha

Bedgebury is expensive just to ride but we often go as a family day out and it is well worth it .

lots to do . kids love it .

on a sunny day in holidays or week end it is packed .

I'm not worried, it doesn't wind me up. There's plenty of room for everyone.

I'm not making things up though, I do take my family there and I do ride there myself.

There's a lot of stuff posted on these threads that's not factually correct or is down to misunderstanding. It's hard work to just keep ignoring it! I think people underestimate the cost of running places like forest centres or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on here as I'm a biker, been mtbing since 1989, been a subscriber/ posting here/ using the forum for a long time, before I got involved in what I do for a living now.

I am going to jump to the defence of Moors Valley as well

If you go expecting a trail centre then you will be disappointed. If you think the car parking charges are just to pay for your parking then you will also be disappointed

There is a lot of free stuff to do at Moors Valley and it costs money to build/maintain. The family and play trails are both extensive and well looked after, but the key is that most of the stuff is 'family friendly' so will not look good value to adults/old people if they don't have young kids in tow. My Mum hates it and says it is 'stupidly expensive'

However, there are plenty of safe places to park in the area and I am not sure why some (CG?) think it is a rough area that will result in a car that gets broken in to 🙁

For the record, I loved the North Shore stuff, but could only ride about 25% of it. Sadly it has mostly been removed due to age, but the pump track is still there. Importantly, it is not part of Moors Valley, but is in the same part of the forest and is not far from the Moors Valley Singletrack. If you want to ride the pump track then park at Bakers Hanging which is free. If you look around you ay also find some other tracks worth riding in the vicinity 😉

If anyone is interested we'd like to increase the trails at MV. We're prob looking at setting up some vol trail building team alongside our contractors to extend the blue and add some red bits/ loops.

@ bentandbroken. No, I wasn't expecting a trail centre and indeed wasn't wanting one. Swinley Forest used to be my local and its attractions include an impressive looking play park for little and not so little 'uns plus walking trails, Go Ape, Discovery Centre etc. parking charge is £2 for up to 4 hours. It's Crown Estate although some of the land is actually Forestry Commission.

Here's my original post, my reasons for not parking elsewhere were due to being unable to ride far. Please don't think I was saying that it was a rough area and my car could get broken into, I categorically did not say that. I was there mid-week and from personal experience isolated car parks have the potential to be risky outside of normal dog walking times.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/moors-valley-country-park-cycling-tips-please

I'm happy to contribute to the upkeep of trails and to pay to park but what I do object to is the Forestry Commission basically ostracising adult visitors who're not accompanied by children by firmly aiming at the family market. Discrimination, pure and simple and flies in the face of inclusivity.

@burko thanks for what you do, what I would say is I don't underestimate the cost but you can't ignore that the alternative of natural riding is free and in the Surrey Hills its fabulous and better than a trail center not least as there is lots of stuff that wouldn't be allowed due to H&S concerns

@Burko73 - email sent

Jambalaya

Yep, it's good that we've got trailcentres and loads of natural riding. You'd be surprised at what we can get away with h&s wise if we can't allow it there's a pretty good reason for it. A lot of the people that work for us in the rec teams are bikers and have worked hard to drive a lot of the development that we've seen. It's just a shame the cash is so hard to come by these days. Everything's gotta pay now. That's life in the public sector these days.

I've been involved with some of summer lightning in the Surrey hills and as I was working didn't have time to ride it when I was over there. We've got some good partners over that way doing some great work who will be looking after that trail for us. Anything that's built needs inspecting and maintaining. That's just how it is these days.

I cut my teeth on trails in the wye valley, the Brecon Beacons and up on the mountain above cwmcarn long before trailcentres were invented. I remember racing my '93 clockwork up what is now (or was?) the start of the twrych trail at cwmcarn. Trailcentres are convenient and are great for getting people into the sport as well. It's great that we've got everything we have got these days.

How on earth can they justify higher charges in school holidays?

Have you ever booked pretty much anything in school holidays such as flights, accommodation, then you will know fine well that peak season is more expensive. Think of the rest of the time as cheaper as an incentive to attract people in the quieter times and you'll be a bit closer to understanding the world around you

Have you ever booked pretty much anything in school holidays such as flights, accommodation, then you will know fine well that peak season is more expensive. Think of the rest of the time as cheaper as an incentive to attract people in the quieter times and you'll be a bit closer to understanding the world around you

Yes, I know from experience that flights and accommodation in school holidays sees prices hiked to silly levels. I was not aware however that this extended to parking charges, certainly at Swinley this does not happen where the parking charge is a fraction of those at Moors Valley.

Think of the rest of the time as cheaper as an incentive to attract people in the quieter times and you'll be a bit closer to understanding the world around you

That's the way the industry argues it, except I don't recall prices were massively higher before the school holidays became treated as such a peak (even accounting for inflation). Even where there is some argument for an incentive in quieter times, some are very obviously cashing in on the peak. The off peak incentive may not bring in that much more money compared to whacking up peak prices to a market that has no choice but to go in school holidays.

When talking about flights, prices can increase just by checking flight prices on the web site (literally! have experienced this with several airlines with a group of us checking prices and price shoots up. Get one person to check and price stays lower. Likewise with booking).

It's basic supply and demand. Easter holiday, Whitsun holiday half term, summer holidays the car park is full and MV is shut most days by 1pm. We just run out of capacity. You can still bike or walk in for free though if you're local.

Think of the upper price as the usual price but discounted off peak to attract more visitors when there is excess capacity. You can also buy a season ticket for £50 which is pretty good value IMO. I go to lepe country park to fish/ take the little un to the beach/ walk the dog etc and I just buy a season ticket for £45 or so as I hate pay and display parking.

I went to llandegla the other day( month..). That cost me £4 for a ride around the red there. Was prob there for 2 hrs max and it was raining. Good to see the private sector getting involved though.

You'd be surprised at what we can get away with h&s wise if we can't allow it there's a pretty good reason for it.

That's my experience of the FC too, as well as being proactive opening channels of discussion when discovering 'illegal' trails and riding spots. There's currently talks on the island (IoW) over various jump sites on various FC properties. There's some resentment as a few have been blocked (due to shoddy construction and littering, on the whole), but ironically the ranger is very pro-biking and open to ideas.

My experience suggests part of the problem is (like most of the public sector) he's overworked with a huge patch, so sorting out a jump spot isn't the largest priority and, as with all large organisations, there's a lot of processes that need to happen behind the scenes before anything physical actually appears to be happening.