[Closed] Swinley - how is it funded?

Crown Estate pay.

A gift from EIIR??

Car park fees go to Bracknell Council. Crown estate pay for trails but dont get any revenue from carpark i believe.

A gift from EIIR??

only 15%

So not bad form to park elswhere and ride to the trails?

That is interesting. I always assumed that the parking fees contributed. Is there a way we can contribute directly to the trail pixies? I don't have the time luxury of being able to attend the build parties what with 2 pre school kids an all but would like to contribute in other ways if possible.

So, as someone who would like to put a bit of money towards those who do pay for the trails, where should I spend my money? the Cafe?

Does anyone have a connection at the Swinley Bike hub? you'd think they'd know how the money situation works.

There's a Swinley mountain bikers facebook group who are likely to have these sort of answers.

It's a nice day, not working so choices - Swinley, QECP (never been there) or Peaslake?

QECP is fairly dry right now according to my daughter who rode there last night.

Contribute to the relevant Air Ambulance service instead and feel no more bad karma...

Peaselake would be my first choice for a day out, for the views if nothing else.
Swinley for a cheeky couple of hours without having to worry where the trail will lead me as its signed.
QECP, not a fan to be honest, sorry.

QECP is well worth a visit, much better than Swinley.

I always try to avoid parking in the carpark when I use Swinley, can't see the point in giving the local council more money when I don't need to and it doesn't go towards the trails there.
On the other hand, if I drive down to Peaslake and park up in one of the carparks there I'll always stick a couple of quid in the collection things by the carpark entrances. At least the money is going towards something useful, namely the Friends of The Hurtwood group.

Good points ^ and have just contributed to Haslemere Air Ambulance

I am crap at riding trail centres so felt the need to practice and try and get a bit more air!! Under normal circumstances Surrey Hills would be the natural winner. Was on Punchbowl v early this morning and the views were awesome.

Still nice to have a choice. A bit of work/jobs to do first... 😉

QECP car park is even more expensive I believe

tmh deadkenney probably knows the answer

I always put a £1 in the cairn in peaslake but £4-6 for parking at a "trail centre" is nonsense imho

Lovely sunny day today, quick ride later I hope - I can't admit how many months its been since the last one 😐

YGM (sorry for delay)

Where are you riding?

I was walking on Butser the other day and checked out CP - £3.50 all day at QECP

I always put a £1 in the cairn in peaslake but £4-6 for parking at a "trail centre" is nonsense imho

As a former Aston Hill volunteer committee-er, I should probably pipe up.

While the Hill seems expensive (£7 for a day pass; significantly less if you join for a year) when compared to places like Swinley (and Wales...) I can honestly say that every penny paid to ride there goes back into Aston Hill in one way, shape or form. Unfortunately it doesn't get any outside funding either, so is purely reliant on pay-to-ride to cover Forestry Commission costs, insurance, and all the materials and costs that go with running an MTB centre. All the committee are volunteers too.

The flipside of that is the Hill has a pretty impressive track record when it comes to producing decent competitive riders. Phil Atwill and Harry Molloy spring to mind as the new kids on the block, Maxine Filby is a regular and Jen Copnall used to ride all the downhills on her XC bike with the saddle up. Not sure how much semi-local Paul Lasenby used it, but Rob Warner is responsible for the original Black Run too.

I always put a £1 in the cairn in peaslake but £4-6 for parking at a "trail centre" is nonsense imho

I don't object when one funds the other, £5 for day of riding is probably less than the wear and tear on the bike from riding on 'natural' trails in winter, so shifting that £5 to paying to maintain the trail instead is fine.

But only ever pay for Swinley when taking newbies out and don't really want to wear them out on my usual loop from Wokingham. The trails are funded by CE and volunteer labor.

Went yesterday for the first time, loved it. Happy to pay £2 for four hours.
Had a shake down of the new bike build. Feeling pretty smug about life, until I went over the bars and fractured my wrist. Now not so smug. At least A&E was only a couple of hours all in this morning.

@tmh today it will be a very slow 1 to 1.5hr xc loop around Winchester early evening - endomondo says last logged ride was late November.

By going and using the trails cafés etc we make trail centres more popular and business etc thrives. I don't go to them every day but when I do I pay car parking fee and buy coffee etc. I help dig at our local trail centre and it dosent help when people park off site annoying locals who are then more difficult to persuade about the benefits of more trails. Think about what impact your having.

jkomo ouch heal quickly - thats what worries me about TC - natural trails seem softer to me (rocks and trees aside!)

PB - good points. I go to Swinley about 2x a year and normally park. havent used the cafe but probably should for the reasons you give

By going and using the trails cafés etc we make trail centres more popular and business etc thrives. I don't go to them every day but when I do I pay car parking fee and buy coffee etc. I help dig at our local trail centre and it dosent help when people park off site annoying locals who are then more difficult to persuade about the benefits of more trails. Think about what impact your having.

But as noted by others, the money from the Swinley car park and cafe does not go back into the trails or the forest. It's in effect already the 'other' car park, like parking in the council car park at Peebles, then riding to GT/Inners. It's just a cash cow for Bracknell Council.

If you want to see expensive 'trail centre' parking charges take a look here:

http://www.moors-valley.co.uk/visitor-information/car-charges/

Swinley is different to other trail centres, in that the trails are funded by forestry commission but it's the council who reap the benefit of the car park and cafe. As Pawsy_Bear mentions, it's probably worth encouraging the use of the car park to keep local residents on side.

I don't mind paying money as long as the aren't any trails closed for ground-nesting birds!

A couple of people have mention QECP so I will pipe up about how it is funded.

The site Is FC land run by Hampshire County Council(HCC).

HCC contribute £0 to the trail building and £0 of the £3.50 per day parking fee goes £0 to the trail building.

The trail building is 100% funded by the QECP trail Collective volunteers and the races they run.

Interesting thread.

The 'old' Swinley scheme used to be funded by the permit scheme. The permit to ride bought you insurance and once the annual insurance was paid (organised by Gorrick iirc) then any excess went into maintaining the trails - which in turn paid for the hire of diggers and an occasional doughnut for the volunteer trailbuilders*

* who for insurance purposes were drawn from the BOB membership; in short form insuring volunteers was prohibitive whereas insuring the club to do some trailbuilding was workable. It never was a 'local trails for local people' thing despite what people said.

Was it so long ago that the attitude was 'it's public land and I'm not paying to ride there', and that's now become 'how can I get some money back into the trails'?

If you want to see expensive 'trail centre' parking charges take a look here:

Stretching the definition of a trail centre a bit though there! Went once but my then 4 year old was overtaking people on the 'challenge' loop on his 16" wheel single speed, so we moved on to Swinley (I'm about equidistant) which was more fun for the whole horde.

I'm happy to pay to park and get a bun and tea - see it as a contribution to the facility, not necessarily ear marked for bikes.. if there's a few other amenities I sometimes get to ride a cheeky second loop solo whilst they play in the playground.

http://www.moors-valley.co.uk/visitor-information/car-charges/

Nice to see a lovely simple pricing structure...

Stretching the definition of a trail centre a bit though there!

Indeed but I did write 'trail centre' ie in quotes. 🙂

Nice to see a lovely simple pricing structure...

I'd love to know how they can get away with that. They don't deserve any punters at those prices.

occasional doughnut

I seem to recall you partook of more than the occaisional doughnut Jon!!!

Yeah Swinley Lookout car park is leased by Bracknell Council and relatively independent from the estate. When the council decided to introduce charges they actually stated in the application that this was to contribute towards council deficits. They predicted £50k a year income I think. From what I've heard they get way more than this. A lot of it from fines (probably why they aren't keen on pay on exit).

Given the excess the council supposedly have agreed to give some back to CE, CE could then distribute to trails, but I'm not aware this has been done.

In short, parking charges at Swinley does not generally go to trails or upkeep of the forest. I see no problem with parking elsewhere. I'm happy to donate to air ambulance though or some direct trail maintenance fund if there is one.

Peaslake / The Hurtwood is funded by donations and whatever grants they can get. Boxes in car parks, also village store, or you can donate on [url= http://www.hurtwoodcontrol.co.uk/ ]Friends of Hurtwood web site[/url]. All goes to upkeep of the Hurtwood including car parks. Always been their intention to avoid charging for car parks. There's a question mark over new ownership whether things continue as is and if the owners continue to use The Friends charity to maintain it.

Then there's projects like Summer Lightning on Leith which is run by B1KE and gets various funding that I forget where from.

Aston, Rogate etc you're paying for upkeep and insurances and well worth the money for excellent sites like that.

As an FYI, for those that park up at Newlands Corner, the council have agreed a plan to introduce charging there and redevelop the site with restaurant, play areas etc. The idea is to offload it so Surrey Wildlife Trust can run it independently.

I don't like doughnuts, must be thinking of someone else :whistles:

£4-6 for parking at a "trail centre" is nonsense imho

Aah the paradox of the UK mountain biker. Won't pay for it, expects to be given it for free, will use it, and more than happy to complain that what they get isn't good enough.

HCC contribute £0 to the trail building and £0 of the £3.50 per day parking fee goes £0 to the trail building.

😆

Aston Hill is fortunate to have a good relationship with the local Forestry Commission, but the actual site is owned by another party that the FC lease from. I don't know if I've ever been party to the actual breakdown on the FC side, but I'd be intrigued to know how the owner benefits from the agreement.

it's probably worth encouraging the use of the car park to keep local residents on side.

Never heard or seen any local resident objections to the trails (beyond NIMBY objections to their very existence, rather than car parking etc). It's not like the area is short of free car parks* even without parking on Jameston. I'm actually surprised how 'honest' people are paying to park for Swinley, I only assume it's because people think it pays for the trails.

*Divecrew, foresters road behind muzzys kebab van, Sandhurst, Camberly, Bagshot.

It's not like the area is short of free car parks* even without parking on Jameston. I'm actually surprised how 'honest' people are paying to park for Swinley, I only assume it's because people think it pays for the trails.

I fell foul of the 6pm gate shut last time I was there (Feb) and parked in the tennis place over the road. I exited the controlled gate as the filling in an Audi sandwich later on. Not ideal, but it worked at the time.

Saying that, if the gate were open I would have paid.

Moors Valley - just spotted in the 2014/2015 revenue budget monitoring that due to such a good Summer they received £30K in car parking charges for that period. 😯

Is there a way we can contribute directly to the trail pixies?

+1.

£4-6 for parking at a "trail centre" is nonsense imho

I always like this, £3 grands worth of bike, couple of hundred quids worth of clothing/pack, a van or car that accommodates a MTB but wont pay a few quid to ride it on maintained trails...

If you want to kick up a fuss over parking charges, just see Bedgebury prices! 😮

It's a relative thing though. Some would say a one off charge you pay once or a few times a year when you visit places is fair enough. However if you are a regular visitor it becomes a fair old whack of money if you visit every week or several times a week.

My other beef with Swinley is the annual parking permit they provide. £100! Said many times, FC sites are often about £40 a year and give other benefits.

Also crazy is they discount the Swinley annual charge for residents of Bracknell. Seems fair you might say, but then I argue that this is encouraging locals to drive and pollute when they could take public transport or even walk/ride.

cinnamon girl, those prices a bargain compared to my local.. [url= http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-8yckcr ]scroll down to admission charges[/url]

But as noted by others, the money from the Swinley car park and cafe does not go back into the trails or the forest. It's in effect already the 'other' car park, like parking in the council car park at Peebles, then riding to GT/Inners. It's just a cash cow for Bracknell Council.

Your missing the point. Yes the money don't go on trails. Same where I help. But the car park owners and cafe owners often give large donations as does the people organising the event. If they don't make money they won't invest in the facilities at the centre. The cafe and car park owners know their income is coming from the MTB. If you park, eat coffee elsewhere then your not helping. Money isn't going to build trails therefore ..... I avoid paying.

Sorry but it's short sighted views like this that are having a damaging affect.