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EDIT: I'm no swimming god though, after a few lengths it all goes to pot cos I don't swim very often and the breathing never seems to work even though I think I'm rotating my head like you're supposed to, I think I probably need refresher lessons again, the last lot were a good decade ago from a club swim coach who came to a scuba club night to help (and take the p1ss)
FWIW if your main problem is sinking then swimming in the sea is piss easy by comparison with a pool. But choose a reasonably calm day/site 🙂
Definitely agree it's 99% technique and very little fitness. I was a club swimmer in my youth and to swim lengths at an ok pace (30 minutes a mile) is about the same effort as walking for me. The problem then is it's hard to increase fitness by swimming on your own in public sessions.
Its technique, my mates a 10km open water swimmer. Her stroke looks nothing like mine.
*not a swimmer*
I found...crawl for a couple of lengths.. got knackered so switch to breaststroke for a length as a recovery helped. Then just increased number of lengths of crawl(ing) but obviously technique is the waay forward!!
I got back in the pool last week after not really swimming since playing waterpolo 25 years ago. Bashed out 2000m in 38 minutes. I was happy with that and it's proof that technique counts. I wasn't that good a swimmer when I played 'polo, but what little I did learn seems to have stuck. Lots of good advice above like keep your head down and breathe out underwater. As soon as you lift your head up, your legs will sink, so concentrate on the lines on the bottom of the pool and don't be tempted to look up. Most pools have lane swimming first thing in the morning - get stuck in!
Good luck with it.
So I’m not dead, sorry Debz.
I did a few things, tried to rotate more (still untidy but can definitely see why), purposely exhaled lots (bubble bubble bubble) and just relaxed and took my time when breathing in so that I could fill my lungs. And tried to go as slowly as I could.
Don’t get me wrong, I was still hilariously shit but I could string a few lengths together without feeling out of puff. Still hard work but easier than last time.
Long way to go. I don’t want to be fast, just be able.
Re: Leg Sinking.
Thanks for the advice re position, posture and technique, but I do just sink!
Most people I know can lie on their back in a pool and float, I just sink.
I have tried many times, many ways but my feet always sink.
I use to swim and dive for my county when I was young.
was a doddle at the olympic pool even with mild asthma as had broad shoulders and of decentish height 😉
Being on the polo team too was tough up against older lads at school but teaches you skills like keeping a float.
now though mind, I feel like a drowning whale that has to no option but to beach itself.
But yes if anything it will train your lungs, build stamina, strengthen joints whilst taking undue pressure of certain read all areas of your body.
stick with it, I really want to get back into it but can’t bear the thought of the public rating my moobs.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">I found…crawl for a couple of lengths.. got knackered so switch to breaststroke for a length as a recovery helped. Then just increased number of lengths of crawl(ing) but obviously technique is the waay forward!!</span>
+1 ^ Found self doing this at the beginning, alternating styles between crawl and breastroke then gradually doing less breaststroke lengths until I ccould do the crawl for the whole session.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">Re: Leg Sinking.</span><br style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;" /><span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">Thanks for the advice re position, posture and technique, but I do just sink!</span><br style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;" /><span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">Most people I know can lie on their back in a pool and float, I just sink</span>
Swimming is not really related to floating, I cannot lie on my back in a pool and float (can just about manage in the sea) but I can swim just fine. Legs sinking is often poor core strength if body position is ok otherwise.
I can swim FC OK, but just get the feeling that due my lack of buoyancy, I am fighting against it and working much harder than I should be..
Lack of core strength? Tick..
Poor technique? Likely
Lack of practice? Once or twice a week, one is after spin so already knackered.
Lack of excuses? Tick
I started swimming 2/3 times a week about a month ago for 30 mins non stop doing breast stroke underwater and have managed to get my distance up to 1100m in that time. I swim in the medium or fast lane now so I thought I better have a go at front crawl as finding the breast stroke unchallenged so I'm guessing it's probably not that great for my fitness? Anyway 2 lengths of crawl I was knackered and out of breath so I will certainly be introducing that when the pool isn't too crowded.
Anyway 2 lengths of crawl I was knackered and out of breath so I will certainly be introducing that when the pool isn’t too crowded.
Try it with just your arms.
lengths? I can barely swim the width of a pool. Contemplating taking lessons as I am utterly atrocious
a story that might help...
a few years back to help out with a local surf club my kid was in I volunteered to do a rlss beach lifeguard course, the first part of the final test being 400m in under 8 mins (7m30 for an RNLI beach lifeguard). I've surfed and mucked about swimming all my life so I thought no prob.
first up I got my wife's godfather to watch me in the pool, he is a retired swim coach, I thought I could swim, he flatly told me I couldn't swim.
next I times myself over 400. I cant remember my exact time but when I looked at the local swim club times in reception I found that I wouldn't even have qualified for the 12 year old girls division.
I asked questions on here, I read books (swim smooth and total immersion), I learnt about technique, and I swam a lot. at my test I did 400 in 6m52s.
swimming is all technique. if you enjoy that you will enjoy swimming but no matter how much time you get on many days the water just feels like treacle.
also look into sea swimming, it is a lot more fun that pool swimming and a lot more to look at as you swim along.
basically though its reach, catch and pull. legs together, keep your body flat and your bum up (push down on your chest). think of a making a small hole and pulling yourself through that.
swim with a plan and stick to it. in the pool I do 400s and variations of that (this week I did 1 x 400/1 x 800/ 8 x 50/ 1x 400), generally 2000m all up in a sesh as that's what I tend to do in the sea come summer.
this clip really helped me...
swimming is intense , such a workout of everything. i only found myself getting better at it by, suprise suprise doing it often. i'm no expert by any means, but just get in and muck about like treading water, doggie paddle , breast stroke. then after a while front crawl and just keep picking up the distance. go 10m ,15m etc. then before going for longer lengths pick up the pace to a point where your doing 25m at a reasonable rate of speed. then up the length again to where your comfortable at say 50m , then up the pace for the 50m .just building up distance and pace over a length of time/years. at the moment id sink, i haven't swam in about 2 years.
Don't worry, I'll save you 🙂
Does breast stroke count? I’ve started swimming regularly and am do8ng a kilometre 3 times a week now. It gets much easier with a bit of time in the pool. Relaxing makes it easier if that makes sense and not fighting for breath all the time, slow down and relax and things ge5 smoother and easier.
I used to swim a lot when I was a kid but have barely done any in the last 25 years. Never had the best technique but good enough to be reasonable. Decided to start again on Sunday. Plan was to swim until I couldn't keep under 30 secs a length. Did 1km Sunday, Monday I did 1.5km and this evening I did 2km. Think I'll stick with this until I can do 4km at that pace and then maybe work to get faster again ( or more likely I'll get bored and start cycling again!)
Keep at it. I work as a swimming teacher and would definitely recommend some lessons at a local pool. Local council run would be best value and like you mention will support them. You also have a "third eye" which will help alot!!
To echo what others have said, its alot about technique and being efficient. In regards to breathing if you're holding your breath at all..think about trying to climb on a bike while holding your breath every time you inhale for a few seconds, you wont last long!!
You need to constantly and consistently breathing in a normally/relaxed in and out. Out of your nose and mouth..in your mouth, you can practice that anywhere you can dunk ya head. Try and get into a rhythm and feel comfortable with it.
Alot to think about overall but for now id get on some lessons or research some bits on the net etc to practice yourself in the pool as much as possible. IMO you need to be practicing good technique rather than cementing bad technique even further....muscle memory and all that!!
Again to echo definitely check out the net and youtube for tutorials etc..."swim smooth" is good.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">Thanks for the advice re position, posture and technique, but I do just sink!</span>
Doesn't matter. My legs sink, on account of being heavily muscled from all the cycling. In the sea as a youth (when I wasn't exactly small) I could float fine, now despite knowing the technique my legs just sink even in the sea.
I can however keep them up in the pool with proper technique. They are prone to sink, maybe more so than other people, but it's certainly possible with work. No excuses.
buy a kayak!
Grown-ups’ lessons every Tuesday evening at my local pool - so they’re in the diary for the next few weeks. Will be interesting to see if I can make any improvement. I think I know pretty much what I’m doing wrong - and that’s a lot of things - but it’s changing what I do wrong into right that’s hard. Feeling not quite so blown out yesterday after thinking about a few of the tips from here was encouraging.
I’ve tried to find out about 1-2-1 lessons locally as I’d happily pay a few quid for something more intensive but no website mentions the cost - which always means “probably more than you want to pay” to me. I wish they’d be more upfront about it.
Anyway, sticking with it for now. Baby steps.
DD you may or may not have crap technique but that is not the issue as you describe in OP
as others have mentioned your issue is simple - BREATHING and more specifically breathing OUT
99% of times when otherwise fit people are knackered after a couple of lengths is that they forget to EXHALE
my 400m warm up focuses on one exercise - Bubble, bubble, breathe and nothing else. Start the swim breathing properly and then rest follows much easier.
Forget to exhale and you will for ever be clinging to the rail panting.
It’s teally simple but true - swimsnooth writes a lot about this and it’s their warm up I describe
Im no expert and i really struggle, but Swim Smooth have a fantastic free animated app that lets you really see what is going on. I know its hard to visualise what you are doing to compare, but its really useful.
My big problem was head position, by having it way too high, it pushes your legs down like a brake. I was also windmilling my arms, instead of scooping the water and pulling back on it. There is a great book by Swim Smooth and its def helpful. However time in the pool is good too. Id echo getting a club /coach if you can.
Wait until you're feeling pretty goid about it.
Then jump into a 50m pool.
It'll **** you up.
Wait until you’re feeling pretty goid about it.Then jump into a 50m pool.
It’ll **** you up.
It’s the encouraging replies like this that keep me coming back to the thread. 😀
Ha
Do you use a float?
Handy to work out whats knackering you if you isolate the different parts maybe?
No, the only ones they had were kiddy sized ones so not a great deal of buoyancy - I did find that my legs weren’t doing s great deal when I used one for a few lengths. Just another of the 37 things I need to work on so, y’know, nearly there. 🙂
I had lessons at the beginning of last year in preparation for a sprint tri in May.... ended up swimming that breast stroke which I'm reasonably quick at but as that's 80% legs 20% arms was shot when it came to the bike and especially the run.
Entered the same tri again this year and really trying to nail FC and facing all the issues above - knackered after 40/50m because my legs were going like roadrunner to try and keep me afloat, holding my breath and then gasping for breath at the end of each length... generally poor position. I'm still miles away from being able to swim 750m but what I have found has helped is to swim length after length with a pull buoy between my knees - helps to remove one aspect of the stroke and lets you concentrate on the arms and breathing and slow the whole thing down.
So some people say it's breathing, but you won't be able to breathe if your position in the water is lousy and you're not rotating enough. Concentrate too much on breathing and you can bet your technique is lousy and inefficient.
Others say their legs sink. Well so do mine and most other lean runner cyclist types. I sink and sit on th ebottom unlees I breathe in more than normal. But my legs don't sink when I swim because the leg kick and arm movement both lift my legs.
Others say your hands should meet in front. You can do this as a drill if yoou want but if you look at good swimmers they start the catch as the other arm comes past their head and they're pulling as the recovering hand eneters the water.
Others say don't kick your legs to save energy and breath, lots of triathletes who spend hours with a pull bouy for example. Well if you don't kick as you start to pull your legs will sink - even if you find a two-beat kick enough, you still need to kick on the same side as you pull as you start to pull. Not kicking is a false economy as the kick improves position, reduces drag and stabilises which means your arms have less work to do or will make you go faster for the same work.
By all means do drills to work on aspects of your swimming but the aim is to get everything working together in perfect coordination to get the most propulsion with the least drag.
I'l take the liberty of adding a drill which is contrary to much of the above. Forget breathing! Swim as far as you can confortably swim without breathing concentrating on these aspects, not all at the same time obviously and try not to unlearn one thing when working on the next:
Pulling along your body, not pushing down on the water (which you might be doing to lift your head to try and find air)
Kicking as you go from catch to pull (that vid up there is two beat - I use four beat but concentrate on the kicks I pull on)
Rotation - because you'll find breathing easier if you have sufficent rotation and don't feel the need to lift your head.
A short stretched out glide period as your hand recovers - you can use this period to remind yourself to get your leg ready to kick as you pull. Slowly reduce the glide so you catch as the arm recovers.
As you pulling hand comes past you head you'll have to change wrist position so you lift your legs rather than mullin them down
When you run out of air roll over and finish the length doing back stroke.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">Not kicking is a false economy as the kick improves position, reduces drag and stabilises which means your arms have less work to do or will make you go faster for the same work.</span>
Yes and no... if you're a triathlete it makes perfect sense to get to T1 with knackered arms, you won't need them again for the rest of the race. From a pure swimming perspective it's a different matter.
Swimming's a funny one eh. If I go to the pool I'm generally the fastest there or thereabouts. Not a humblebrag, because I'M ACTUALLY RUBBISH! Put me in with a club or someone with actual decent technique and they're going half as fast again. My sister used to race - 25+ years later she's an out of condition mum of several who basically doesn't exercise. Still fast over a couple of lengths.
It's the wetsuit that means triathletes don't need to kick much, but stil need to kick. The float with a 5mm suit is similar to swimming with one and a half pull bouys, I still kick because the pull doesn't provide the same forward drive without the corresponding leg kick.
I used to train in the suit in a 50m pool, both the pace clock and and heart rate said that a leg kick even if reduced was procutive in both speed (short distance events) and lmiting fatigue (long distance events)
I learnt to swim a freestyle a few years ago. I did a class at my local halo which was alright
Total immersion helped me alot. The superman glides are a great start and teach to you float with good body position.
I would not worry about swimming any sort of distance just practice swimming 1 really good length. have a rest go again. swimming distance will come as you technique gets better there is no benefit practicing struggling in the water.
Swim smooth and the race club aqua notes are a great resource on how to develop your stroke and how to reduce your drag.
I used to swim on a Thursday night as half the pool was set aside for the triathalon club who had a very good coach and I could watch better swimmers technique and get some free tips.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; background-color: #eeeeee;">non stop doing breast stroke underwater and have managed to get my distance up to 1100m</span>
Is suspicious of this claim.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12px;">
</span>Swimming’s a funny one eh. If I go to the pool I’m generally the fastest there or thereabouts. Not a humblebrag, because I’M ACTUALLY RUBBISH! Put me in with a club or someone with actual decent technique and they’re going half as fast again.
Yep, typically the 'fast' lane at the public session I attend is much slower than the 'slow' lane at the masters club I used to go to (and am avoiding going back to until I can at least keep up with the slow lane!)
To the OP: it doesn't get easier. You just get faster...
Yeah yeah, I'm shite, thought I was okay until I tried a tri and swiftly had to revise this estimation. There's such a gap between generally fit folk who think they can swim, like me, and those who've actually learned and trained how to go quickly ( cheating).
Art of Swimming is what I used, with an Instructor. There are various youtube tutorials. Here's the basic one
I too am somebody who finds swimming a chore. Unless I'm at the local pool with my 8yr old grandson.
As a windsurfer, I just need to be able to get back to the board after a dismount, and sometimes if the sail manages to balance itself in a semi-upright position, that can be a bit of a way.
The other week, In Cape Verde, I was just in shorts and a harness (negligible bouyancy) standing in the shorebreak, waiting for a moment of calm to launch, when one of the "beach boys" grabbed my board and said "OK, I'll sail it out beyond the breaking waves, you swim out".
I don't know if I was more annoyed that I looked like a fat old man who couldn't handle a breaking wave or that I was going to use my valuable energy reserves on an unscheduled flap about.
Swimming with the goal of getting to the other end of the pool is easy. You just need to sit and spectate at a local pool during public swimming times to witness it in action. With enough spectating you'll see everything from those who can do endless breast stroke while never getting their hair wet, to those who cruise up doing some kind of flailing doggy paddle/front crawl hybrid, to those who just glide up and down seemingly effortlessly (and often with rubbish technique!).
Swimming properly is hard. It's not that any specific thing is hard, it's just that combining everything correctly and at the right time is hard.
As others have said, get some lessons. It doesn't really matter about any specific method (total immersions, art of swimming, local pool instructor, etc), as the basics are all pretty much the same, and until you can manage the basics, any specific method isn't going to have any major benefit.
I've had a good few lessons, and I'll admit I'm still rubbish, but at least I now know what I'm doing wrong, and can at least attempt to practise the correct technique, even though I still regularly start thinking about one thing then forget about something else resulting in an abrupt halt mid pool :-/
I'm entirely self-taught (Well, I got to Grade 3 in swimming lessons and school) and got down to 22:22 for 1500m and 5:22 for 400m. **** me it was hard work. Completely disagree it was 99% technique (though of course you need that) 1% fitness, it took me a lot of brutal interval work to actually get quick (ish...) once technique was dialled.
I agree with Finbar once you can actually swim front crawl and breath properly a lot of speed comes from doing what you do but harder.
As for coaching I don't feel (for me at least) one off coaching sessions give much benefit. Yes they will tell you you are dropping your elbow or crossing over. However next time you swim unless someone is reminding you dictating the drills to help correct it, you will revert to type.
For me the most important thing in learning to swim better, is you have to get in the water at least 3 times a week. If you don't it will be very hard to progress.
I went through a stage of worrying thinking it was my technique that was the big problem. I now subscribe to the swim hard badly philosophy.
This has put me in the middle of the swim times when doing Ironman. So basically good for the general public and pretty crap for a real swimmer 🙂
Bazzer
So basically good for the general public and pretty crap for a real swimmer
+1. I was humbled on Sunday by the Swim Club kids, age around 10, doing 2 lengths to my 1 🙂