As a DoE assessor, I couldn't really care too much on exactly what they were eating as long as it had a decent amount of calories in it. Suggestions I would throw in are the boil in the bag English breakfasts, scotch pancakes (can just be heated on the top of a Trangia), Nutella sandwiches, croissants - anything really.
The main thing is to avoid kids just eating the bare minimum and then getting into trouble on the hill later (when sorting issues is substantially harder) cos they haven't eaten enough.
so suggestions of bacon etc. are probably not going to be practical (along with the fact that the real expedition takes five days and they have to carry everything they are going to eat during the trip from the start – not really going to work carrying raw meat for five days).
Thats a good point whilst this is only Bronze so 2 days, probably the leaders are trying to make them use foods/strategies that will get them through Silver and Gold too.
I keep getting told off for not eating enough when I am on a jumping day (it's tough to stop and cook a meal when the weather is good and the plane is giving lifts) so I have a stash of assorted freeze dried meals in my locker...
https://www.xxl.se/search?query=torrmat
(Yes, swedish link, but you get the idea).
_If_ I get hungry enough to want something substantial, I'll get a kettle on and have something like a Pasta Provencal and it's 5-600 KCal. The good thing is that it can get given water before I have to go jump and can spend the whole of the lift cycle rehydrating.
The trade-off is money. They are not cheap. The MREs/Ratpacks are likely cheaper but, if I am honest, it's not amazing food and does kind of train people to accept the food as made for them instead of prepping it themselves. It may also put her off eating some types of food. I still have nightmares about the tinned cheese in the old 7-man packs.
Also, package waste. A loaf of Soreen doesn't really have that much plastic.
An aeropress of coffee and a bag of wine gums*
My mum used to do the chaperoning on DoE expeditions. And on one a kid had been convinced the Royal Marines did a "Skittles Challenge" which was to march for two days eating nothing but skittles.
Needless to say the results were dramatic. Tantrums, dysentery, got left behind repeatedly, collapsed, had to be taken home whilst protesting that it was everyone's fault but his. Apparently he was a little **** to start with which didn't help, but living off sweets wasn't a bright idea either.
And on one a kid had been convinced the Royal Marines did a “Skittles Challenge” which was to march for two days eating nothing but skittles.
TBH, I'm surprised he was allowed to start if that was all he had with him (unless he had other, actual, food with him, and was just being a teenage dick, which is entirely possible)
Overnight oats: https://www.msrgear.com/blog/backcountry-breakfastsovernight-oats/
I'd be going for flapjacks and nuts myself, but if it's a box ticking exercise for the instructors then maybe that might hit the spot.
(These are really useful if you do go down the oats route: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sistema-Go-Microwave-Soup-Mug/dp/B0091CQ7SM/ref=asc_df_B0091CQ7SM/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=205169454929&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9751099888479576606&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006567&hvtargid=pla-422487855023&psc=1&th=1&psc=1)
If they have a trangia (or several) just do a fry up?
Meat and overnight trips can make a few of us Supervising or Assessing wobble. I have had whole tents go down with food poisoning - one was bacon and sausages, one was a pre-cooked chilli from mum.... If you do go this route, you need a cold container and daughter know what properly cooked bacon looks like.
I personally think that multiple brioche / cereal bars / banana / etc AND a hot drink is great as a DofE brekkie for those who do not like porridge.
A tin of Heinz sausage and beans and a brew is 👍
I also like pre-packed food as well, apart from cost - there are some nice 'sausage, bacon and tattie fried' dehydrated meals (etc).
I have had a few do the bagel, cheese and cured meat route as well. I also do this for brekkie on camp occasionally.
My lad is currently doing a practice hike for his DofE silver in June. Which is basically the same as his bronze he did last year, but slightly longer. He and his mates are having sausage butties tomorrow morning!
Or:
One lad on my daughter's practice expedition had been sent with Uncle Ben's microwavable rice!
I would listen to the organisers (and people with experience of supervising on here) as they will know what works. The freeze dried and boil in the bag meals are probably not what most here would use for camping but for DofE they seem to be the best, low fuss option.
I keep getting told off for not eating enough when I am on a jumping day (it’s tough to stop and cook a meal when the weather is good and the plane is giving lifts) so I have a stash of assorted freeze dried meals in my locker…
Are you talking about parachute jumps, or am I missing something?
Is there any necessity to have hot food between whatever jumps you are doing, or could pasties, sausage rolls, sushi, sandwiches, a small picnic buffet or last night's left-over spaghetti do the trick?
The trade-off is money. They are not cheap. The MREs/Ratpacks are likely cheaper but, if I am honest, it’s not amazing food and does kind of train people to accept the food as made for them instead of prepping it themselves. It may also put her off eating some types of food. I still have nightmares about the tinned cheese in the old 7-man packs.
Now, I'm not claiming that a good pasty is the cheapest thing in the world, but it's cheaper than freeze-dried food and much tastier, and can also be eaten while jumping out of an aeroplane, one would assume. Sorry, to clarify, easier to eat before or after jumping, not while stepping out of the plane, unless you hold it in your mouth and keep your jaws tight.
Also, package waste. A loaf of Soreen doesn’t really have that much plastic.
Ditto pasties. They really are proof of divine beings.
😀
“assessor would expect to see them eat something more substantial for breakfast on the actual expedition”
Assessor can do one unless she is struggling to finish the route. If she has cereal bars to eat throughout the day there shouldn't be a problem.
Peanut butter in between 2 slices of compacted Soreen would be up there for the calories v density. Doesnt need heating, or keeping in a fridge. Is sweet enough and a wholefoods peanut butter cuts will through some of the sweetness. Add a banana or even a tin of rice pudding, sliced banana in roce pudding spunds lush to me
If she has cereal bars to eat throughout the dayand she eats them there shouldn’t be a problem.
The two don't necessarily go together, teenagers can be both a) brilliant and b) mind-numbingly dumb at pretty much the same time.
Assessor can do one unless she is struggling to finish the route. If she has cereal bars to eat throughout the day there shouldn’t be a problem.
The assessor on my daughter's trip said that they wanted the "young people" to have reasonable food including hot meals and drinks at appropriate times. As far as I am concerned that is sensible and existing solely on cereal bars is not. The whole point of DofE is to learn some life skills so telling the kids to subsist on cereal bars disrespect the assessors is not really going to achieve that.
Wow, you guys eat a lot of sugar.
Tell her to go keto. Then she won't need breakfast and will be good for a non-stop week 🙂
Problem - "she doesn't like porridge"
Solution 1 - "porridge but made different"
Solution 2 - "something something which is essentially the same as porridge"
I'd be on the all-day breakfast type meals personally, either boil in the bag or dehydrated.
As for cost, you can always decant a cheap tin of heinz into the re-useable silicone pouches or whatever.
The assessor on my daughter’s trip said that they wanted the “young people” to have reasonable food including hot meals and drinks at appropriate times. As far as I am concerned that is sensible and existing solely on cereal bars is not. The whole point of DofE is to learn some life skills so telling the kids to subsist on cereal bars disrespect the assessors is not really going to achieve that.
Mmmm I think we are at cross purposes here. An expedition with minimal cooking and prep kit is a different prospect to being at home with a full kitchen and fridge. Being flexible and taking a measured appropriate approach is a more valuable life skill than having some victorian values fausted upon you.
Biscoff wraps are a breakfast favourite for my teenagers (and me too!)
Lots of fresh fruit (berries) and a decent sized Danish do me from 04:00 to 12:00 on the days I ride my 30km to work, they'll also usually seem me good for 75-80km (3hours) riding from the door.
I have done a lot of multiday self supported trekking. That means carrying several days food. If you have a canoe like the OPs daughter then weight is not such an issue but for multidays I find you cannot run a calorie deficit for several days. I aim for 4000 calories a day. Oats are good as they have some effect regulating blood sugar
Again with it being multiday its important to get some fibre - oats again are good for this. Fats are more calorie dense than carbs. A good mix of short and long acting carbs and fats is something to aim at.
Its important you like the food you are eating so you do actually eat it. It does you no good in your bags
with the OPs daughter not having to worry about weight so much then tins also can come into to play. I find the prepack camping meals really rather unpleasant and usually much too small.
so for me flapjack or porage or oatcakes for breakfast, oatcakes with olives and cheese / cereal bars thru the day. and a big pile of pasta or rice in the evening.with a basic sauce. dry roast nuts for fat, protein fibre and salt, chocolate as a nice something as snacks
I try to eat most hours - ie the old eat like a hobbit 🙂
they are paddling not walking
Game changer. I didn't read that earlier. Paddling = no weight issue = luxury food.
My paddling diet is completely different to my lightweight walking diet. TBF paddling includes a couple of bottles of wine stashed in the boat. Breakfast when paddling would be bagels, cured meats, cheese, bucket of tea, I'd definitely consider some of the all day breakfast tins.
Canoes are best when sitting low in the water, embrace the weight.
Assessor can do one unless she is struggling to finish the route. If she has cereal bars to eat throughout the day there shouldn’t be a problem.
Mmmm I think we are at cross purposes here. An expedition with minimal cooking and prep kit is a different prospect to being at home with a full kitchen and fridge.
That's an "adult" solution to a problem - ordinarily I am an argumentative prick who would happily debate the logic for the suggestion but the "life lesson" here is - your group leader says, "the person assessing you will expect to see you have a more substantial breakfast" then you say "ok how can I do that" to pass, not "well he's wrong".
It may even be this is the group leaders' bias coming out not the assessors but its not going to do her any harm. Even if she has to force herself to eat shit porridge once, its not going to kill her. But she's also quite resourceful so I'd rather she actually ate something she liked then being sneaky to look like she's eaten some porridge that's been buried somewhere.
Game changer. I didn’t read that earlier. Paddling = no weight issue = luxury food.
Yes - she's crafty. She joined the sea scouts rather than the school DoE group because "have you seen the size of pack they carry round"!
My paddling diet is completely different to my lightweight walking diet. TBF paddling includes a couple of bottles of wine stashed in the boat.
Yeah, I won't suggest that to her as she might, and I suspect the assessor would take a dim view on the nutritional value!
Four cans of guiness
Or beans....but only one can of beans
I aim for 4000 calories a day.
I think it was Jenn who told me when she was riding across America, towards the end she was eating butter straight out of the pack just to get enough calories.
Probably not a great idea for a DofE, mind. 😁
If it were me I'd head to Go Outdoors and snag whatever expedition food most took her fancy. From memory the last time I looked into this the Wayfarer stuff linked on the previous page were one of the best, they're pre-hydrated so that was an issue for me when wild camping but wouldn't be so much in a canoe.
Fruitcake…to eat…I don’t mean your daughter’s a fruitcake.
I think it was Jenn who told me when she was riding across America, towards the end she was eating butter straight out of the pack just to get enough calories.
I read Tim Hempleman-Adams' book about his unsupported walk to the North Pole, and he and his walking buddy dissolved a whole pack of butter, each(!), into every meal they ate. It was the only way to get the calories they needed.
I know porridge isn't a thing for her, but maybe she needs to learn to eat what she needs, not what she wants.
That's an outdoor life skill. And you can change your tastes too. DofE is kind of about finding these things out...
Given she doesn't like porridge so I'm guessing no museli (alpen with milk powder makes and acceptable lightweight breakfast) the I'd recommend either cake or a tin.
Cake could be battenburg, brioche, teacake, pancake, whatever type of cake
Tin can be heated in the kettle, dent the tin, in the kettle, all day breakfast, beans, curry, custard, whatever is warming. Can add bread or wraps if wanted.
As for needing to be up an hour before eating is that really a problem for kids on a one night d of e? Won't they be up at 5 irrespective?
Edit: I eat most things (including museli and overnight oats) but avoid porridge if at all possible so don't push that or it will not be eaten. Didn't Johnson define oats as 'food for horses'. Sounds a good enough reason to refuse them if you don't like them.
Chocolate and cans of cola.
More chocolate.
Scrambled (or poached) eggs on toast?
If a fridge is available then mix oats/granola with her favourite yoghurt. Or mix drinking chocolate powder, water (hot) with oats or similar just to make a paste but not runny. Rice pudding, malt loaf/cheese. The brand of vacuum meals in the above photo are good. Maybe think about a carb energy drink too.
Just remembered one of ours...
Granola or similar with milk substituted for hot chocolate (not that calorie free crap obviously).
If a fridge is available
If she's travelling in a canoe then she's got a natural fridge, she's got running cold water and just needs a bag.
Tin can be heated in the kettle
Or just eaten cold and washed down with hot tea. Spaghetti bolognaise cold from a tin is great, lovely and sweet. Bacon grill, not so much, especially with the layer of congealed fat around the outside.
Malt cake is a great call.
If she’s travelling in a canoe then she’s got a natural fridge, she’s got running cold water and just needs a bag.
You arrive at your destination to find your knot skills were not up to the task and your bag of goodies has floated off. 😆
i prefer a protein rich breakfast. hard boiled eggs and tinned fish would be my suggestion. not sure if a teen would be prepared to eat such a breakfast, though
My view is it’s better she has something with her that she will definitely eat, rather than something she won’t eat, any calories is better than none for doing a DofE expedition.
this is a very sensible approach. how about a big pile of peanut butter and jam sandwiches? or a sandwich that she likes if she’s not keen on PBnJ
@IdleJon Are you from the Pasty Marketing Board or something?? I mean, I agree that they are food _and_ container in one hit, but...
And yes, skydiving. You burn a lot of calories in a day with the walking and the falling so I generally get advice to eat something small between every jump cycle. I'm a natural snacker, but when I don't want to eat, I like having the option to sit down and actually eat a meal.
I really should try and see if I can eat a pasty in freefall. 60 seconds should be enough, but I'm not sure my visor would make it easy. I'd hate to drop it as well.
Edited to add: OP, I have an excellent book called "Moveable Feasts" that I was recommended when I was doing a lot of long distance trail running. It's relatively cheap, so maybe buy it for her as a present so she can experiment with foods she likes and fits the scenario?
I think it is this one: https://www.amazon.com/Moveable-Feasts-outdoor-enthusiasts-Cicerone/dp/1852845341
Thanks all for the suggestions. I've shared them with her and they didn't all get a screwed up face.
maybe she needs to learn to eat what she needs, not what she wants.
That’s an outdoor life skill. And you can change your tastes too. DofE is kind of about finding these things out…
@Chevychase - I'm guessing you don't have a teenage daughter! I think I was clear from the start that she would try to force herself to eat it and I was looking for more palatable suggestions. To me, working out other ways to get the nutrition you need rather than following a well trod path that you don't enjoy is a much more valuable life lesson than learning to suffer. Certainly, your tastes can change, but I think she's more likely to learn that from having options that mean she actually goes back and has more adventures in the future rather than endures it to get a bit of paper on her "CV".
The using the water as a natural fridge suggestion might work on some canoe trips - but this water is pretty gross, not fast flowing and (assuming they are camping where her brother did previously) the camp site is not actually in sight of the water (although its only 50 yds from it) and theres a busy path along the water's edge. It might be a more viable suggestion for silver/gold though as they tend to go somewhere a bit "nicer" for that!
Just a note to add to some of the suggestions, ~4000 calories ready to eat might be achievable for an overnight trip, but you'll have to look at alternatives for the Silver/Gold in that case as a tin/400g bag of anything is only about 400 calories, and clearly 40+ of those isn't practical. So if the rule is to be self sufficient then they'll need other options.
That being able to cook a nutritious and balanced 1-pot meal with stuff you can buy from the co-op is probably a more valuable life skill and relevance to enjoying the outdoors than developing a taste for mingin freeze dried food is a different debate.
Have a look at the covid edition of the GBDuro for inspiration as that was ~5 days self sufficient for most, and a fairly miserable looking last 48h as the last few tried to get from the Scottish border to JoG on nothing more than a malt loaf and Harribo.
Have a look at the covid edition of the GBDuro for inspiration as that was
They rode past my house...and all stopped at the bakers, chip shop or convenience store and all came out with arms full of supplies as they all said it was going to get sparse further up north! All 3 shops thought they'd hit the jackpot for 2 days.
@IdleJon Are you from the Pasty Marketing Board or something?? I mean, I agree that they are food _and_ container in one hit, but…
Oh, I wish! When I worked in the food industry it was in cheese and butter/spreads, and while I love cheese it's not a pasty! 😀
They rode past my house…and all stopped at the bakers, chip shop or convenience store and all came out with arms full of supplies as they all said it was going to get sparse further up north! All 3 shops thought they’d hit the jackpot for 2 days.
Not that year, 2021 they were fully self sufficient rather than self supported. They had to carry all their food supplies, bike spares etc the whole route.
Ah, it was 2022...
