[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Yes generally good atmosphere but this pre KO stuff is going way OTT now. Started at Murrayfield but they have the excuse of covering up what is coming. Wales have no need. Ok, it's a night match but even so....

Mutual respect? Booing the national anthem and booing our kicker

Glad we beat them!

Bollocks shit and corruption 🙁 well done England

What a start!! I've been "watching" the game via BBC txt in Shanghai - no pics is purgatory!!

I still think no team will win a GS this year. The tournament will be decided by who Italy play worst against, same as last year.

Seemed a very odd tactic for Wales to just kick the leather off the ball straight to englands most dangerous player all game. Also seemed completely unable to run any set pkay attack all game. Wales also seemed to fade badly and didnt seem to have any zip. Wonder if Gatlands training has gone too far again. Oh well could be worse it wasnt Western Samoa, Fiji or Italy we lost too!!

Oh well could be worse it wasnt Western Samoa, Fiji or Italy we lost too!!

Give it time 😳

Mutual respect? Booing the national anthem and booing our kicker

Its a shit anthem!

I am confident we will not lose to western samoa ever again!

Its a shit anthem!

What a quality second half from England.

The Ford channel held up!

Ford was quite have tbh. But did stand off a couple.

I agree...our anthem is w@nk....very little booing of the kicker that I heard.

Yeah North was poor...the fact that he should have been on the pitch for most of the match as he seemed pretty concussed possibly had something to do with that.

The Ford channel held up!

He got run over more than a few times but wales werent good enough to build on it. England won the game in the front five second half. Note that Haskel came into the game second half, it was due to what was in front of him.

Yep, forwards win matches (says a hooker)!!!

Red button comments interesting - sir C and jiffy are funny

Told you 12trees would play well...

Quite surprised by that, can't recall desperate Dan doing anything all game and one run by Davies, and that says a lot.
Great game.

Blimey the bird doing the interviewing is as subtle as a brick

^yep haha

Booing of GStQ..

Don't care, if some few Welsh want to look petty that's their affair. Would much rather have Land of Hope And Glory instead, but we should always sing the 6th verse of the anthem when playing Scotland 😀

The lack of penetration from a fully fit welsh squad must be a worry. Is there no plan B to WarrenBall?

I must say, I'm wondering where Stephen Jones will get his negative article from this weekend. My guess will be " ah, but if it were NZ then England would have lost"

FFS.

I don't want to point the finger at any one individual but it is frustrating to see North stutter for Wales.

As people round our way say:

"I'm not sure he knew if it was arsehole or breakfast time".

I've no idea what the derivation of that saying is, but I'm pretty sure he was groggy for nearly all of the game.

from a life long rugby league man, that was a cracking game of rugby.
wales looked good 1st half, thought they had it, but england buckled down and got on with it. haskell and the bloke who got try disallowed where the pick for me.

I enjoyed that game.

The bloke that got the try disallowed was Haskell ton aka The Hask, aka Brand Haskell.

Not sure about the comments re lack of penetration from a fully fit Wales...whom exactly were you missing from your first choice starting XV?!

I watched the game from an outdoor hot tub in -3°c with a few beers. The steam from the tub did obscure the telly a bit.

Whilst the game was enjoyable I thought Wales were pretty average. England's defence for the Welsh try was abysmal - notwithstanding Faleteau's brilliance.

Couldn't see why Ben Youngs got pulled off when he was playing well. Sobering to think that JJ was only playing because Brad Barritt is injured.

My main fear is that Farrel gets back into the team.

Not in this tournament he won't.

Wouldn't mind a replacement lock on the bench next week, otherwise keep it the same.

was it me that the venue noise was controled?

As people round our way say:

"I'm not sure he knew if it was arsehole or breakfast time".

I've no idea what the derivation of that saying is, but I'm pretty sure he was groggy for nearly all of the game.

If we can see it then surely the coaches can too. Williams looked to have some zip when he made his brief appearance. Wouldn't be too much of a gamble to bring on the man of the match from a rare SH victory at half time, let alone the second time North was out cold.

Tom B - I liked our starting XV, but undoubtedly Lawes, Launchbury, Wood, Tuilagi and and Barritt would have started if fit.

My comment really stems from the untried England midfield, as opposed to ungifted, when compared to a settled Welsh team with no injuries, playing at home.

Like so many internationals, game was won in the back row.
Haskell, Vunipola and Robshaw all made good yards.
Faletau made a little, Warburton and Lydiate didn't.

It was Atwood who had try disallowed wasn't it?

Points;
Burrell held it all together. Previous stuffs of Roberts being superior proved complete rubbish. JJ a lively presence. Haskell was beyond his capability. Lee is good but not cole good. Watson deserved MOTM, ford was poor and is far from owning the 10 shirt,
Warburton is a complete menace but can be contained. Wales are better when tips is playing.

Great win, in Cardiff. But a lot changes in a few months can make it worth less.

In all, I'm very happy that we have watson, he's as good as I hoped.

I'm really looking fwd to watching full highlights of the game. Coming from 10-0 down shows character, which coming into RWC year is very important, IMHO.

ford was poor and is far from owning the 10 shirt

Did you give up watching after 15 minutes?

He looked a bit rabbit in the headlights with those kicks being charged down early on, but after that I thought he was excellent. Maybe not MoM excellent, I think that belonged in the forwards, probably Haskell, but certainly not poor.

Ow my head, feel like Dan Biggar probably does this morning.

Immense first half. woeful second from Wales. Too much kicking (Gatland 101) I was always taught to keep the ball in hand unless you're going backwards. Play the bloody phases FFS, and as the Joseph try showed TAKE HIS BLOODY FEET! Tackling round the shoulders 🙄

Fair play to England though, really stepped it up in the second half.

What was the Cuthbert yellow for?

As for MoM I think Biggar was the best man on the pitch, him and Halfpenny were excellent.

Like so many internationals, game was won in the back row.
Haskell, Vunipola and Robshaw all made good yards.
Faletau made a little, Warburton and Lydiate didn't.

That rubbish I'm afraid. The england back row threat was easily contained in the first half but once the england front five got on top second half it allowed the england backrow time and space. The fat lads won the game. Atwood and Krius were very good as was Cole with very little game time. Its sad to see one of Wales all time great players who has won three grand slams over 100 caps and Lions test caps get so humbled twice in a row by England.

Adam and Gethin have had their time. Gethin should retire gracefully, no one wants to see him dribble his career to an end, such a great player.

I'm really hoping Lancaster sticks with this back line. I can't see Farrell replacing JJ in the centres, and apart from throwing himself into every tackle against 15 tired plays 36 didn't change the game did he. May needs to be swapped for someone with more position awareness and he's too frail. Being a Rocket in today's international backline where space is rare isn't the only skills you need. Yarde, although not perfect would have stayed out to stand a good chance of preventing that try. Youngs was slow, Care is the better player.

Cole did the Job he was asked to do and stole a couple of balls which compliments out need to lay 6.5's in the back line, good to,see him back - with a starting performance like that it's a good sign that he and corbs are on the way back. mako looked lazy moving around the field TBH.

I'd like to see Cips v Italy or Scotland. I think he'd play like Ford did, but with added composure. We need to slot those kicks. I think Ford may have tried to emulate Cips rather than Farrell, and the ball was passed much flatter.

Haskell a man possessed, he's been playing like that for Wasps and is real threat on the loose, him and Robshaw similar but different

North should have been off the pitch, that needs looking at tbh.

That light show was a farce, WRU should be fined IMO for the stupid games and the delay to the match. Good on Robshaw for standing tall, but then being he better man and walking onto the pitch - albeit with the Caviat. We had the last word in the end.

Great match and as we've waited for for so long with England, as said above the Team with the most Tries won. I thinking the end score was fitting.

I thought a-w jones (special effort to get the hyphen in right place.....) was probably mom.... seemed to tackle everything

impressed by kruis too - second row was pretty impressive for supposed 4th and 5th choice

The fat lads won the game.

Agreed, I thought they were excellent.

Gethin should retire gracefully, no one wants to see him dribble his career to an end, such a great player.

Not sure on this. He has always struggled with refs in the scrum since the infamous video but on his day can be rampaging around the field. He hasn't lost the quality, it is just getting harder to tease the form out of him. Not sure the replacements are better

Ford- I thought he was excellent. Maybe not MoM excellent

Agreed, the majority of you English are way too hard on him. Even when he was struggling a bit he always looked in control... and how much ball did the backline see. When you have the forwards England have you can afford a child sized playmaker 😆 Place kicking would be the only worry.

Yarde, although not perfect would have stayed out to stand a good chance of preventing that try. Youngs was slow

Did you watch the 6N game or the Saxons match? Youngs was a real spark and dangerous throughout and Yarde was shocking! Wade perhaps but not Yarde in the next team! Agreed though that May added little

A great game the difference in the second half was England playing the ball out of the tackle, wales had obviously targeted turnover ball in this and we're doing very well at it in first half ( frightened englang so much they had to commit too many to the breakdown and even then got slow ball).
Another issue is why referees are allowed to make decisions based on what they see on the big screen, as was proved with the touchjudges call about the kick going straight out the homeside screen will only show what favours them ( strange how they managed to find that full footage well after the decision had been made eh?), the atwood try obstruction was only viewed for 1 angle on big screen but 4th official could have called for different views.

Another issue is why referees are allowed to make decisions based on what they see on the big screen, as was proved with the touchjudges call about the kick going straight out the homeside screen will only show what favours them

It is controlled by the broadcaster and 4th official, nothing to do with the home side. If the ref has gone to the 4th official for help then the ref can use the big screen as it was a bit of a farce that they were supposed to be looking away and not use it in their decision for a long time. The angles come from the 4th official. When play has continued the broadcaster puts up replays- of course they wait for the play to continue because the ref didn't (couldn't?) ask the 4th official for help. At that point it is only for the benefit of the fans in the stadium and for the beenfit of the England captain to be whingey all game 😆

It is controlled by the broadcaster

That will be BBC Wales then!? If you ask for a second opinion then should take it! As I said only 1 angle was shown so what good was that. this has occurred lots of times at different games and at one time ( sorry can't remember exactly ) even the 4th official had difficulty getting all the camera angles out of broadcaster

To be honest, there was nothing in that game that required a replay or 4th official. Even as a Welsh fan the crossing call was a joke but fortunately a bit of a funny one (given the media hype before) as England went on to win. Blame Hartley for the blatent block against NZ for the topic coming to the fore. Had they lost it would have been a very hollow Wales win. Thinking about it Hartley was rather good for Wales. No idea why Haskell thought he'd scored- not familiar with the post rules? Ball out on the full was one of those things, maybe a lack of guile from Watson to make it more obvious to the officials.

Anyone else with a monster hangover today? After half a bottle of wine with pre game meal. A couple of Chimay Blue's during the game, opening a bottle of Rioja for a celebratory glass was always going to end badly!

I'm supposed to be recording some tracks with my band in a few hours :-/

Haskel running into the post was piss funny!!

Another issue is why referees are allowed to make decisions based on what they see on the big screen, as was proved with the touchjudges call about the kick going straight out the homeside screen will only show what favours them ( strange how they managed to find that full footage well after the decision had been made eh?), the atwood try obstruction was only viewed for 1 angle on big screen but 4th official could have called for different views.

Only allowed to use replays to decide on try scoring or not so they couldnt review the touch kick from Brown. At one point there wad a hint of a tip tackle too. The fourth official can review it and get back to the ref if necessary. I presume he did this and all was fine so play carried on.
Still cannot understand such a flat performance in the second half from Wales, i think it might be related to all this fitness work they've been doing.
The attacking play was utterly shite too. No runners from deep nothing. Watched a youtube vid of Roberts v Northampton the way they put him into space was in stark contrast to the way ales use him.

A very good win for England, just a few points:

(1) Ford was very good, plays much flatter than Farrell so England were getting over the gain line sooner despite not hitting the ball at pace. However, it is riskier if you get caught which he did early on.
(ii) Youngs make take an extra step but his pass was very long creating a huge area on the inside shoulder of the fly half to attack. England made a lot of yards down this channel.
(iii) Haskell carried the ball well and was excellent value but he was at fault for the early try.

Haskel adds beef and came into his own in the second half arm wrestle. Bit ponderous though. I was waiting for Tipuric and Priestland to come on and try and move the big england backrow around and make more use of the wings. Never happened though just bosh, smash, bosh, smash.

attwood was the bloke i was talking about, he played well. and haskell.

. The fat lads won the game...just bosh, smash, bosh, smash

😀 😀 😀

Great win for England and generally a better performance in terms of creativity.

I thought Wales nullified Billy V too easily, warburton and Faleteau looked tremendous as did AW Jones. Part of the problems is the game time for some of the players is missing and one must question the mental aspect in the last quarter for the welsh something seems not to be there.....Gatland time for a new coach?

SOme outstanding performances for England

Front 4 especially Atwood I am sorry but I have no time for Hartley he is a minimum of 2 penalties a game
Youngs and Ford, I thought Ford is a step up from Farrell and played on the line, defended really well and aided by Burrell
Centres did well for a combination not used to each other

Watson is class but needs international nous but that is experience
Brown is getting form and is good

Problems no kicker really outside Ford apart from Brown
May is no international standard, the try was his fault and catching under the high ball was not good
international nous especially in retaining/presenting the ball after the tackle,
Lancaster and the coaches subs......too preplanned and not reading the game, marler was excellent why take him off? Youngs was running the game?. Too early to close a game out really, Lanacaster is just a bit too predetermined in his decisions at time.

Not many changes for me

locks is a real competitive area.....
Props looking good if all fit
Hooker.....????
Back row lots of optiosn and Robshaw is underestimated and unsung, good player and getting better as capt

half backs leave as but Dixon would have been there for me

Centres leave as.....Mani T no sure and Barritt is great defense but Joseph looks on form

Wings Watson and then pick one but not May

Full back...again options and depth

The Big question is Scotland, they will be the team that causes the upsets I think...............interesting today but Wales at Murrayfield will be close.

Lancaster and the coaches subs......too preplanned and not reading the game, marler was excellent why take him off? 

I thought Lancaster made an error brining on Vunipola as Lee bent him in half at the first scrum but then the ref just lost the plot when all the front row subs came on. England were dominating the scrum and then were not. Didnt matter in the end though.

Robshaw made more than 20 tackles (26)! None missed, extraordinary.

Webb's box kicking was poor - too short.

Agreed AA, Vunipola has not learnt or been coached from his mistakes in the Lions.....this limits him massively. Mr S Lee had a hard night but seems to have some talent. Hibbard was relatively quiet, I had him to smash tackle someone inside 6 minutes....preferably Hartley.

Referring the scrum is not easy but it now bordering on embarrassment for the game. Really needs sorting. Faleteau pickup was handling in the scrum but also wonderful skill, athleticism.

It will be interesting to see the NO 8 of the tournament.

Vunipola is the wrong shape for a prop now the hits been removed.
Lee is a great prospect only 22 I think doing very well to just hold his own. Hibbard was quiet as was Ball and Gethin. Very subdued performance. Dont want to rain on Eglands parade as it was a damn good win but I do think wales were very poor.

[i]Like so many internationals, game was won in the back row.
Haskell, Vunipola and Robshaw all made good yards.
Faletau made a little, Warburton and Lydiate didn't.[/i]

That rubbish I'm afraid.

Afraid not. You can make your own rose tinted narrative but the stats don't lie.
Robshaw alone made as many yards as the entire Wales back row.
Vunipola made more, and Haskell nearly double.
England back row made 4 times as much distance as their welsh counterparts, and usually took both flankers to tackle them leaving space outside for the likes of Watson and Joseph.
In attack, England back row were also on top for clean breaks 1-0 to England BR ; defenders beaten 5-1 EBR ; and offloads 2-1 EBR.
Faletau had his moment, with an offload assist for the try where Haskell missed a tackle, but other than that, the problem was there was minimal attacking threat from the Welsh back row despite more possession.

And the defensive stats favour England back row too:

Lydiate 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
warburton 14 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
faletau 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers

Haskell 15 tackles made, 1 missed, no turnovers
Robshaw 26 tackles made, 0 missed, one turnover
Vunipola 14 tackles made, 0 missed, one turnover

Robshaw is underestimated and unsung, good player and getting better as capt

26 tackles, none missed, a turnover and as much yardage as the entire wales back row.
For his "Own personal battle" with Wales 7 and captain Warburton in his own back yard, job done.

Afraid not. You can make your own rose tinted narrative but the stats don't lie.
Robshaw alone made as many yards as the entire Wales back row.
Vunipola made more, and Haskell nearly double.
England back row made 4 times as much distance as their welsh counterparts, and usually took both flankers to tackle them leaving space outside for the likes of Watson and Joseph.

I've been accused of lots of things but never "rose tinted". The question you have to ask yourself is why and the answer lies with the front five. Many a time has a welsh backrow or back been given the blame for a good old fashioned rogering in the front five. Scrums, lineouts and mauls won it for England.

mistake above - Haskell nine tackles made one mised (only one all night by an England back row)

It will be interesting to see the NO 8 of the tournament.

Jordi Murphy 😉

I do think wales were very poor.

Jordi Murphy

think they were well contained. Chuffed for Burrell following the scathing (and undeserved) reports from the Racing Metro game.

Burrell is a good player, Ford could become very special if he keeps improving, Kruis too. Remains to be seen if it was poor welsh play or good england play or a bit of both.

Thete's a joke here somewhere but I'm too crestfallen to make it.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31176748

AA - you've got it spot on there, bit of both.

sat watching the italy ireland game thinking how very scrappy it seems.
every time italy play, no matter who it is, the games ends up a scrappy mess.

why is this?

Because Italy have a game plan based on their strengths,a decent forward pack (different in union remember Ton) and try to force they other team into an arm wrestle. Trouble is that the pack is decent,rather than good,so it takes a while to chew through them so you can play.

France in red WTF 😯

Just back from the AJ Bell Stadium, Sale 38-Scarlets 3 which is nice, 6 tries to nil.
Poor Scarlets were treated to renditions of "Swing Low,Sweet Chariot" and "Shall We Shut The Roof For You?" 😆
The only Scarlets player who looked decent was the scrum-half/Captain Rhodri Williams (?) felt sorry for the poor bloke trying to carry the team on his own.

Anyway, Allez Les Bleus!!

Is Huget the new Ashton? Petulant little ***** 😆

Scotland look a little weak at the breakdown but class with ball in the backs. They need a bit more confidence to trust themselves and not rely on a snapped drop goal. France on the other hand look fairly average but equally you can sense the pure class simmering underneath and the few more gears they can easily step up.

Would love to see Scotland win!

Crikey the Cotter/Nicol orgasmatron commentary.

The Scots are looking very tired now

But we have an international rugby team again, and a set of backs!

So wales and italy the wooden spoon decider based on this weekends games?

Another victory earned in the piggies. Scotland do look very good when the backs get their hands on it. Not convinced Owens had his best game and France were getting away with a lot of skullduggery, but I think on balance France deserved it.

A deserved win for France, but on the plus side I'm more optimistic about this Scotland team than I've been since 1999. Great line breaking by Hogg, Bennett, and Russell. And some good work in the lineouts.

Fascinating Game, Scotland excellent Russell Dunbar Bennett Hogg looked outstanding. laidlaw played well as did J Gary they were unlucky at the breakdown which was ferocious but Nigel Owen was not great by his standards a couple of wayward throwins, the scrum was a real lottery. Scotland will be hard to beat and if can get the backs on the ball regularly.

France going for the power game and a real lack of creativity given the potential skill levels, the scrum versus England will be interesting.

Lopez was not MOM.....

Ireland struggled today, surprisingly really if they had played it wider ealier, . Italy have stagnated badly, the replacement backs looked far better T Allen looked sharp.

Good weekend overall, Italy wooden spoon Wales will have confidence shattered and internal division will rise, Scotland to improve and give the rest a scare, France Ireland England all will be close but I think England will be narrow winners.

Nobody looking brilliant so far. France made hard work of that. Two quick tries saved irish blushes.
Impressed by Hogg, he very nearly made the difference.

Who was that France 15? He was bloody huge!

I thought Scotland played the game with terrific ambition. They were undone by some poor basic errors at important times in the match.

Bad enough having to put up with Cotter/Nicol for 80 minutes but then, at the end, Nicol completely ignores the biggest turnaround in Scottish play for several years and bemoans the fact that it is "still a defeat."

It looks like Big Vern has got Scotland playing the right way. Just a shame that Maitland is missing as his support play and running lines would have fitted right in.

Mark Bennett looks great. Been following him since the U-20s and his sojourn with Clermont.

France 15 = South African

I think errors for Scotland were often due to the intensity of the tackling but there were things they will improve on, graet improvement on the dire efforts of a couple of season age.

Hogg is one fine player, No 15 of the tournament Hogg or Brown or 1/2p?

Personally I thought England looked massively impressive, outstanding pack, looking better in the backs with creativity and pace, good quality subs to come on ( this I think will decide the tournament players from the bench, Scots are weak in depth as do Wales, France subs looked slow to get to game ) most importantly they looked mentally strong and prepared, little or no panic through the game when behind.

edit Chris ashton should never play for England again, far better alternatives who can attack AND defend.

France 15 = South African