[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

All bets are off if Samson gets injured early

The fact is; Wales are favorites. England don't really need an excuse if they lose

True. Wales are effectively playing our second team, with a limited number of caps and 2 weeks max playing together as an international outfit. I will yet won't be disappointed if England lose in Cardiff, and all the Welsh gloating that will prevail here will mean nothing.

If England win however, Wales will need to take a very hard look at themselves.

FWIW I have Ireland as 6N favorites to win now.

I will yet won't be disappointed if England lose in Cardiff, and all the Welsh gloating that will prevail here will mean nothing.

If England win however, Wales will need to take a very hard look at themselves.

Wrecker +1 annoying for WC but can't make excuses, not that they are necessary.

Wales as a team and at home should have adv over England (ditto Ireland)....

....and if WRU repeat the trick of billy goat gruff and a bunch of Caerphilly cheese/Brains SA breath breathing basses and baritones standing right behind our delicate roses at the start, then Engkand will be 0-20 before the start!!!!

Either way, hope it's a good match. Annoying that I am out for dinner so will need to be recorded!

Either way, hope it's a good match.

Yeah ditto. Hopefully it's a decent game.

Annoying that I am out for dinner so will need to be recorded!

That was extremely poor planning on your part.....

Looks like David Wilson could be out now too......Jeez.

Wales are effectively playing our second team

Nonsense.
Defeatist, bottler nonsense.

There'll be a couple of locks making a big step up, but that's about it up front.
At 6 they've got a multi-tour Lion available, 8's been shared between Billy and Morgan for a while now anyway, and Easter's the form English 8 in Prem and Cup this season and got loads of caps too. Front row has massive strength in depth - look at Marler, Corbs and Mako fighting over places.
Most people thought Ford at 10 anyway. Plenty of choice at 9.
At 12 and 13, there's hardly a tried and proven multi cap combo missing. Lancaster's still experimenting, and tends a bit towards "horses for courses" here anyway. Personally ,my guess would have been Farrell and Barritt [u]for this particular game[/u]. Now looks to me like it'll be 36 and Burrell ( who's on course to be fit to play despite being tagged injured above). That's hardly an earth shattering difference.
Must admit I'd really rate Manu if fit, but he's missed more than he's played recently so they need to be able to cope, or at least prepare without. And IMO, it works in their favour for september if they can bring him in as a bit of a wildcard without Wales having had a pop at stopping him now. Cracking interview with Mallett on bbc :

"Tuilagi is a force of nature, and you only get one or two of that type of player in a generation," said Mallett, who guided South Africa to a world record-equalling 17 successive Test wins from 1997-98 and will be working with Accenture to provide statistics during the Six Nations.
"He is so important, there is no question of that. If you have a Sonny Bill Williams or Julian Savea (New Zealand backs), or a Tuilagi, you have got someone who all the other players can feed off and play off.
"I haven't yet seen another player of that physicality in the England set-up. Luther Burrell is a very powerful, strong, player, but he's manageable. Tuilagi is not manageable. When he gets the ball on the front foot he's devastating."

Anyway, back 3 looks like it's what Lancaster would have wanted. Brown's established now. May is his favoured winger. And [i]Watson[/i] looks like the best young English back for a while. Needs to have a game or three before WC.

Also, Wolfhounds are [i]"effectively playing our second team"[/i] (your words) this Friday. Have a look at the strength of both teams here, this is gonna be some B-game.

Irish Wolfhounds:
Felix Jones (captain), Fergus McFadden, Keith Earls, Gordon D'Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald; Ian Madigan, Kieran Marmion; Jack McGrath, Richardt Strauss, Mike Ross; Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy; Dominic Ryan, Sean O'Brien, Jack Conan
Replacements:
Rob Herring, Michael Bent, Nathan White, Robbie Diack; Eoin McKeon, Isaac Boss, Noel Reid, Craig Gilroy

England Saxons:
C Pennell (Worcester), C Ashton (Saracens), E Daly (Wasps), S Burgess (Bath), H Slade (Exeter), L Dickson (Northampton, capt), M Mullan (Wasps), R Webber (Bath), H Thomas (Bath), M Garvey (Bath), J Gaskell (Wasps), D Ewers (Exeter), M Kvesic (Gloucester), T Waldrom (Exeter).
Replacements: L Cowan Dickie (Exeter), A Waller (Northampton), J Cooper-Woolley (Wasps), M Itoje (Saracens), C Fearns (Bath), J Simpson (Wasps), O Devoto (Bath), C Wade (Wasps).

SOB's back.

Also, would have been a great time for Lancaster to bring Steffon over to get involved a bit without losing any face. Except he's got himself locked up.

At 12 and 13, there's hardly a tried and proven multi cap combo missing.

And Thomson looks like the best young English back for a while

this is gonna be some B-game.

Sorry wrecker, that's who I meant. 😳

I don't see this England 2nd team thing either. To be honest I don't ever watch a Wales game and see them as favourites, even against a team like Fiji 😆

Is the Friday match televised anywhere? Could be an interesting watch.

It will be great to see Ken Owens [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31007653 ]making his return[/url] and hopefully be fit for the end of the 6N.

Is there any faint optimism from the Scottish fans this year? They have actually been running in tries in the November international and Glasgow seem to be doing alright... will be interesting to see if they can shake things up in the 6N

Pretty sure they're all full caps in the Wolfhounds game except Jack Conan, who's been Leinster's MOM on many occasions this year. 4 lions too.

Other game, bookies have Wales mild favourites for the match, not much in it.
But they have England as joint favorites for the title with Ireland.

Is the Friday match televised anywhere? Could be an interesting watch.

If Burrell's fit, then claims of "2nd team" are waay out. If the only two centres we have to choose from are 36 and JJ then I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's pretty far from the strongest side england could field. No excuses though, everyone gets injuries. It's a part of sport.

loum - Member
Wales are effectively playing our second team
Nonsense.
Defeatist, bottler nonsense.

There'll be a couple of locks making a big step up, but that's about it up front.

No, it isn't. There are 10 first choice internationals missing of a team of 14 to start.

There are 10 first choice internationals missing of a team of 14 to start.

Thanks Wrecker!

Say a funny comment from Gatland along the lines of he wasn't sure if England will try and play 9 man rugby or 10 man rugby or something more expansive (doubt on the last option) 😆

No, it isn't. There are 10 first choice internationals missing of a team of 14 to start.

Go on then- tell me who you think the team would have been.

The first choice obviously. If you can't work it out from the injury list why should I write it down for you?

tell me who you think the team would have been.

I agree wrecker. I've said the same up there ^^^. But not [i]"should have been"[/i], that's too open and we're all better team pickers than Lancaster.

But to be perfectly clear, what i wanted to know is the [i]"Would have been"[/i] team in the opinion of the "second team" poster above.

The first choice obviously. If you can't work it out from the injury list why should I write it down for you?

Humour me, you're the England fan.

would have been a great time for Lancaster to bring Steffon over 

I thought he was in jail.

aa, do you only read the first line of a post?

loum - Member
Also, would have been a great time for Lancaster to bring Steffon over to get involved a bit without losing any face. [b][u]Except he's got himself locked up.[/u]
[/b]
POSTED 35 MINUTES AGO #

[u]in the opinion of the "second team" poster above.[/u]

🙂

aa, do you only read the first line of a post?

To be honest the wailing about injuries was a bit much for me!!

Could have another 5 tight heads get injured and still have far better players than Jarvis and Andrews!!

Brown Watson Burrell 12trees May Ford BYoungs; Marler Hartley Wilson Attwood Kruis Haskell BVunipola Robshaw.

Not a bad side by any means. Front 5 still stronger than Wales. Backrow a match for anyone, backs have pace and creativity.

Not a bad side by any means. Front 5 still stronger than Wales. Backrow a match for anyone, [b]backs have pace and creativity.[/b]

They have creativity and pace, just don't seem to know how to use it in an England jersey

Ford is creative and May is bloody fast!!

Ford is creative and May is bloody fast!!

When I get on the park today, I'm going to grubber kick the shit out of those Samoans.

Healey thinks the answer could be Cipriani at 12. Oh please, please, please. He also seems to think Roberts is the only big back we have too. Having Vunipola mark him is fine. Davies could run at Cippers allday instead.

Well I've just seen Manu in the Marriott in Twickenham and to be honest he's no where near as big as I thought he was. Looking forward to next Friday!

namastebuzz - Member
Annoying that I am out for dinner so will need to be recorded!
That was extremely poor planning on your part.....

Oops it's next week, not tomorrow! No wonder I can't find anything to record... 😳

Well I've just seen Manu in the Marriott in Twickenham and to be honest he's no where near as big as I thought he was.

Samson Lee has been declared fit. Which is a good thing.

Praise the lord, scrum parity can now be a realistic prospect if Gethin can have a good day and isnt in any more refs video's between now and then.

Well I've just seen Manu in the Marriott in Twickenham and to be honest he's no where near as big as I thought he was. Looking forward to next Friday!

I bumped into Va'aiga Tuigamala aka Inga the Winger in NZ in 1996. He's quoted at 5'11 - 3/4 shorter than me. But when I stood in front of him saying hello he looked about 5 times bigger than that. As scary as hell he was.

Anyway, Wolfhounds vs Saxons on Sky Sports tonight worth a watch, if I can convince Mrs Kryton to let me take over the TV....

Aye, I just thought he'd be huge. Having said that myself and the other chaps I was with are all about 6ft 4 and around 15/16 stone so its a relative. Having said that I'm sure he'd smash us all with the exception of the Norwegian chap, who's 6 foot 8 and around 19-20 stone.

Well you're not exactly small yourselves then, however I expect he'd go through the Norwegian as well, but get injured opening the door!

😆

SOB looking good, Gashton just tried to pick a fight with him too the daft prat

Dave Ewers is a strong lad eh?

Orc hooker needs to hook

Orc hooker needs to hook

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Orc hooker needs to hook

Keep,it clean. Webber is better than that, must be a game plan to put the effort on the Irish pack.

Chris Pennell. What a player, and what a loyal bloke too! He easily merits playing in ERC games, not in the English Championship.

Wolfhounds vs Saxons on Sky Sports tonight worth a watch, if I can convince Mrs Kryton to let me take over the TV

Enjoying the match via a streaming site. As a league man I'm not finding it the best union match I've ever seen. I'm surprised to see Burgess playing to be honest, he's been OK but nothing special since moving to Bath, I think he'll improve with time but at the moment he's still learning and it shows

How is the World Cup Winner in Waiting playing?

Yeah, Burgess shouldn't be there. He needs to develop and earn his stripes. Media hype over.

must be a game plan to put the effort on the Irish pack.

what to lose all the scrums, can the 1sts try that next week please!!

s a league man I'm not finding it the best union match I've ever seen.

its all effort and no quality so far, both teams look like strangers, unsuprising

Burgess has been pretty crap cfh. He's done an excellent looping pass to touch, an offload to no one and got in Dickson's way a few times!

So, not well, then?

Still, he'll be ace, won't he! I mean, look at that other great cross code success England brought in with great fanfare far too soon - Vainokolo. Currently struggling to get a game somewhere in a nearly forgotten club in France.

I feel sorry for Burgess really. Waaaay too much hype, and totally unrealistic expectations about his ability to play rugby. Rather wish he'd been able to try a season of lower home profile rugby before coming back to the UK. Perhaps even trying to do a SBW cross code season in Oz. Either way, he's been put up on too much of a pedestal.

Dunno who he is but the irish seen to have tasked one guy with marking burgess and he's doing a good job. Been a couple of cracking tackles from the Irish in general

How is the World Cup Winner in Waiting playing?

Is this the refs first ever game? useless!

Now that is one thing I struggle with, coming from league, I often have no idea why the ref has made a given call

Shane Byrnes love child hooking for the Saxons

[img] [/img]
Is that a ninja edit I see?

What you talking about 😉

I often have no idea why the ref has made a given call

GET IN!

Well a win for the Saxons despite being unable to win their own scrums or lineouts.

Kvesic played well and Simpson looked electric when he came on. Christian Wade got one touch and took his try well. Somehow SL thinks he's England's 6th best winger.....

Burgess is nowhere near being a union player just yet.

Agree on Kvesic and Simpson, and Slade went well. Ewers was a monster, how he got up (he didn't even go all the way down!) from that charging headbut is remarkable.
Good win for the Saxons against a very experienced Wolfhounds side in Cork.

Thought that Henry Thomas was the best England player. Suspect he will be getting game time in the 6N

Henderson and Jones were looking good. Some fair performances in the pack I guess but not really an easy game to shine in and so many players coming back from injury. SOB wasn't storming but you can see his natural strength even when far from full fitness. I love watching Isaac Boss play too- such a smart rugby brain to open up a gap from nothing from time to time. Earls was looking slippery but all too often pulled out schoolboy errors- great to see him run but no change from normal.

Chris Pennell. What a player, and what a loyal bloke too! He easily merits playing in ERC games, not in the English Championship.

Agreed. Pennel and perhaps Wade were the only Saxons looking close to ready for a first team outing. Daly had moments of showing his talent but wasn't really shining throughout. The biggest let down (compared to fan/ media expectations) has to be a toss up between Burgess and Yarde. Not at all great! You'd have thought Burgess would have loved to line up against D'Arcy and Earls from a physical point of view but was easily contained. Not surprising for 60 days of Union but hey. Not sure on Thomas. As a back it is hard to appreciate the subtleties of a good individual forward performance but I can't help thinking he is living on a reputation that isn't justified at this level

I thought hendo and Pennel were the best players from each side.

I feel sorry for Burgess, the expectation and hype on him is immense and he's only started playing the game at a decent level. Even Earls stepped him

Wade touched the ball, what twice? Really not sure how you manage to get that, and Shane Horgan agrees!
Slade, Thomas, Kvesic, Simpson and Ewers really did their chances no harm at all. Perhaps LCD too (line out notwithstanding). Itoge did OK, especially seeing as he's only played 8 games of AP rugby.
I'd put Simpson in ahead of Wigglesworth and Youngs, Kvesic instead of Clark. Ewers deserves a slot, we need a rock hard grafter like that.

Bbc reporting J Davies an injury worry for Wales

Wade touched the ball, what twice?

Seemed twice more than Yarde and probably twice more than the average English wing sees the ball in a Test 😆

Jokes aside, it was interesting to see Gatland's comments that he and Northampton are desperate to try and get North seeing the ball more- not just for his size and obvious skills, but also for his general lack of involvement sometimes. Probably also designed to try and motivate North ahead of the 6N but it is difficult for wingers to get involved in the modern game

We can play him at 13 now Jiffy Junior is broken!!

Nah, Mini Jiffy will be fine .... hopefully! 😕

it is difficult for wingers to get involved in the modern game

True but a lot of the better ones go looking for work and it often pays off.

Wade was on the left wing but got himself over on to the right for his try.

Interesting stuff, I have often thought the reason that welsh players have been so poor in france is down to how they peak ie not for club games.

Interesting interview. It makes a lot of sense. They know what the target is, when it is , and how important it is. It is the total priority above all else, and using all the time available to make as many incremental gains before a future Big Target is just modern sports science. Look at Brailsford and Sky/ Brittish cycling results before then during last Olympics.

Not surprised that Haskell seems to think that Gatland's entire focus is on Welsh preparation for the World Cup. he's worked with him before, and trained under him. Knows what he's talking about.
I've been saying that since before the last Lions tour. Makes a lot of sense why there were so many Welsh getting prep and experience against Oz, what with their record against Oz and them in the same group. Need all the advantage they can find. 😉

Going back to the Wolfhounds game, agree with BM that Henderson was prob most impressive on his team. Amazing effort after so long out. Thought Dominic Ryan put in a good shift too, for a seven playing at six. As someone above said "[i] Dunno who he is but the irish seen to have tasked one guy with marking burgess[/i] " - pretty sure it was Ryan nearly every time.
The one time he wasn't there was when Burgess made some yards then got the offload away behind the gain line to set up the play leading up to the first try. IMO, that's exactly what he was brought in for, and created the key score, so that's a successful game for him whatever the haterz think. Some mistakes too, but so did most, and progress for a player on 500 minutes .
Ewers looked best of the bunch for England. Could do a decent job as bench cover for 6 and 8 next week, Billy's not always an 80 minute man at International intensity, (Morgan neither, TBH, even when fit). And if Haskell starts at 6 then that's all back row injuries covered if he can switch to 7. Can see this happening as he's more versatile than Easter/Kvesic/Croft.
Simpson (?) did his chances no harm as impact nine as Barnes said. Made an impact.

Greedy bastard!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/31060988

So, after his AWESOME performance for the Saxons, Burgess moves straight in to the full England training camp.

😐

I get the feeling Lancaster is just hoping that some sort of run'n'wriggle hard man aspect will appear in the centre to stop Dr Desperate Dan running through the England midfield.

Good grief, we are screwed...

Could be yet worse if you win, Kryters my old fruit. If that happens, all of a sudden, Lancaster will be a tactical genius and Burgess the greatest rugby* player of all time.

*Proper rugby. 😉

The conditioning thing from Haskell on Wales is really interesting- sounds tough on the players! I get the aim of this approach but I don't think you can normally fault the Welsh for lack of conditioning- more lack of basic skills at crucial moments and a little nous, against SH sides in particular. Of course lack of conditioning makes errors more likely but I think it is more due to a lack of a plan B and any subtlety in the playing style. I do sometimes think they (Gatland?) kid themselves that SA/ Aus/ NZ/ etc aren't putting as much effort in to conditioning and it's a way to gain an advantage- doesn't seem to be working as there are a lot of tough, strong, fit dudes that can actually handle the ball well and have a great rugby brain on top in these successful nations 😕

I'm sure they aren't excluding the technical aspects but I think the good teams can more than handle Gatlandball- Wales have to utterly dominate ever facet of a game against the SH sides to scrape a win and somehow just matching them or being good in one area of the game doesn't seem to be enough. I guess this equate to a lack of tactical genius amongst the coaches which is hardly an unique opinion about Wales 😳

Burgess isn't in the team, he's just having his ego stroked:

[i]Sam Burgess, who made his Saxons debut in Ireland, will also be linking up with Stuart Lancaster's squad in Surrey, but only for a couple of days to continue his union education - he will rejoin his Bath team-mates on Monday.[/i]