[Closed] So....the dog bit my Daughter on the face..!!

Hey,

Ignoring your daughter

This tells me you're not prepared to put the work in required to bust him down to his proper pack position.
Move him on or have him killed.

Agree again.

I feel bad for the dog here. If you can't be arsed to train it properly you should never have had it in the first place.

Ok Warton, substitute, you "put" two year old on a horse/donkey but it nipped her and she fell off. Shoot the dangerous beast and make some glue then. FFS, some perspective!!!!???? Accidents happen, especially when babies/ young children and animals are left together. Who's fault is that?

When I see a MTB coming, I recall my dogs and often reward them with a dog treet.. They sit and wait, but still occassionally catch my hand with their teeth. Bloody beasts, dangerous and unpredictable, better put them to sleep immediately. Four bites and your out - mine are well past that. An animal's version of Logans Run but without Jenny Agguter getting her kit off.

For the same reason we persecute sharks!

FFS, some perspective!!!!???

Perspective = this is the fifth time the dog has bitten someone. 🙄

In 12 years.. Good job we don't judge humans in the same way.

Anyway, in danger now of doing what I said I would avoid. So Im out.

Joe,

It was myself that drew the analogy with 'other dangeous things' that need to be managed. There are otherways of managing a potentially dangerous 'thing' (dog, knife, etc) without banning or destroying them. That can include keeping the knife in the block out of reach, not letting the dog on the sofa, (or even in the house) or muzzleing it. teamhurtmore has obviously a bit more time to put together a fuller respone but appears to echo my sentiments.

They all said the same thing, he can't be rehomed due to his age and for having a history of biting.

A long winded way of saying it's likely there is someone out there who will adopt yours.

[quote=teamhurtmore ]In 12 years.. Good job we don't judge humans in the same way.
And that's 84 in doggie years right? I mean, that's almost [i]never[/i].

Maybe there's a chemical option, could the dog not be drugged to remain passive and indifferent for the rest of it's life? I'm thinking along the lines of kids with ADHD and Ritalin?

Best to think of all options after all...

Good job we don't judge humans in the same way.

If my bairn bit 5 people in 12 years I'm pretty sure social services would be having a word.

Good job some of us don't humanise all animals really.

marsedneman has it...

Those comparing dogs to other manageable "risks" are missing the key difference. Dogs are sentient creatures. They have an underlying reason for biting - maltreatment, anxiety, protection of others, protection of their own territory, lack of training, incorrect view of their place in the pecking order, unabated aggression (fighting / gaurd dogs?)

Whatever the reason, someone, somewhere will have the love and patience to resolve.

But a family with small kids is probably not the correct "someone, somewhere"

They all said the same thing, he can't be rehomed due to his age and for having a history of biting.

PLEASE check that with Dogs Trust before you make any more decisions.

Our Westie was known to be aggressive. He'd killed one cat, two birds, attacked/fought a Staff and bit a child.

He easily found a new home as I provided reams and reams of background to the rehomers..

In 12 years.. Good job we don't judge humans in the same way.

Are you for real? It's OK for dogs to bite people, as long as they don't do it very often?

and as for this:

They sit and wait, but still occassionally catch my hand with their teeth. Bloody beasts, dangerous and unpredictable, better put them to sleep immediately.

compare it to the OP:

He can be quite an aggresive dog, he's bitten me before trying to get him out from under the bed, he bit a stranger out on a walk once, my neighbour when he was dropping off some post and he's also bitten my daughter before

not exactly comparing apples with apples are you?

Why so much effort to re-home aggresive dogs. Plenty of non agressive dogs that need a home. Only one right thing to do if there are kids in the house.

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoJ3n-_7tUp4rhCmRDsSdluyPRW_gI3oUYauE7EhoRlW8eNc5VM3IYPWDw [/img]

Bury the dog/child alive?

My rather large dog knows his boundaries. Never goes through a door or up the stairs in front of me and when its play time will put a toy in his mouth as he knows mouthing is not tolerated. He growled at a local drunk once, who decided to give him a "cuddle". 😯 Still didn't bite him though, it seems he prefers the headbutt.

perhaps take this route

http://www.williamhalestaxidermist.co.uk/

you still "have" the dog but he cant bite...

Dig a pit and let them fight it out

I don't get why this is even an issue for debate.

"Only" bitten someone four times is four too many, and there's a world of difference between catching you with a tooth when feeding it and actually properly biting. The OP suggests that this is the latter case.

I'll type this slowly because some folks here don't seem to be able to read too quickly:

His dog bit his two year old daughter's face.

Did we get that, or do I need to type it again?

I sympathise with the OP, and with the animal. I know how attached people can get to pets; I had my cat of 18 years put to sleep years ago and it still upsets me to talk about it (and if you believe the dog-huggers, that was 'only' a cat).

You can argue till the cows come home about poor training, whether or not dogs are pack animals, whether it's natural for the breed, who's fault it was, but the fact remains that you have a dangerous, unpredictable animal and a small child in the same room. This cannot coexist. It just can't.

I don't believe a muzzle is an acceptable solution. Mistakes happen, people forget, the thing has to eat sometimes. What happens when you take your eyes of it for a minute and the now-toddler decides to investigate the food bowl? Do you really want an animal which [i]requires muzzling[/i] sharing your family's home?

It may be possible to retrain it, I'm no dog psychology expert. But there's the adage of old dogs and new tricks, and in any case even if you believed you were successful in this, would you be able to trust it 100% in the future? I wouldn't.

It needs rehoming, and quickly. Sorry.

[i]DONT
ask for advise off the forum.[/i]

Gives us all something to do on monday 😉

Dig a pit and let them fight it out

The only solution that is completely fair and just.

Not sure that I agree with that, at all - based on direct observation. ..

Your observations are influenced by the premise that dogs behave according to pack theory. Dog jumps up, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog jumps on sofa, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog goes through a door first, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog growls at you, it’s trying to challenge you. But in each case above the answer could be, the dog is doing something that you don’t want it to do, but you never got around to training it to act in a way that you find acceptable.

Do you seriously think that a dog believes that it is the same as a human, and is living in some sort of hierarchy in which it is constantly trying to climb the ladder to reach the alpha position? Our dog is a female, will I get home from work one day to find the wife with her throat ripped out and the dog all agent provocateurd up on the bed?

Our friends have a GSD, it’s a huge great thing that could rip your head off if it wanted (I’ve worn the padded suit in protection training and it is really scary). From the very first time I was introduced to the dog it would listen to my commands, not because it thought I was pack leader, I didn’t do any alpha rolls or have to fight with it to prove my standing in its pack. It listened because it has been trained to listen to humans.

guide dog trainer we went for a walk with yesterday said the 'pack theory' was incredibly dated, almost as dated as hitting/shouting at your dog to teach it.

[b]jekkyl[/b] - Member
The dog was on the sofa because that where he likes to sit. I agree that dogs shouldn't be on the sofa but if we told him off for sitting on it we'd be shoving him off it all day and anyway he just goes and sits on the other one anyway and he probably sits on them all day when we are out.

"The dog doesn't like" - it's a dog not a person - trained properly the dog will do as told and will be happy doing so. Dogs understand hierarchy, the dog needs to know it's at the bottom of the hierarchy. As I posted your dog thinks it's at the same level as you all and certainly above the little one.

Our dog doesn't sit on the furniture. Our dog doesn't go upstairs. She knows here place is downstairs and on the floor, that's what she's been taught.

[i]guide dog trainer we went for a walk with yesterday said the 'pack theory' was incredibly dated, almost as dated as hitting/shouting at your dog to teach it.[/i]

Says he, offering no alternative.... 😉

JUST LISTEN TO COUGAR

end of

Our dog is a female, will I get home from work one day to find the wife with her throat ripped out and the dog all agent provocateurd up on the bed?

[i][b]Our dog doesn't sit on the furniture. Our dog doesn't go upstairs. She knows here place is downstairs and on the floor, that's what she's been taught.
[/i]
spot on Jambalaya!

As soon as I saw the 'sitting on the sofa' comment, like all those who have pointed it out subsequently.....THAT more than anything points to the root of the problem.

Unfortunately too many dog owners treat their dogs like cuddly toys and not the dogs that they are.

I love my dog, but he knows his place and everyone else loves him too because he's so well trained and obedient.

Do you seriously think that a dog believes that it is the same as a human, and is living in some sort of hierarchy in which it is constantly trying to climb the ladder to reach the alpha position?

Some dogs do, yes.

Most do, don't they? they join the new pack, assert their position, then live with it, but try to assert a stronger position when they can, like when the pack leaders fail to be the leaders. there's also a degree of territoriality - not allowed on that couch, eh? so what about this one, ok, this one's ok, right then it's mine,
chickens do the same, big fights when new ones arrive, pecking order sorted, one of the higher ones gets sick, more fights, new pecking order established, sick one gets better, reasserts itself etc.

YOU are the alpha animal, YOU define what is and isn't acceptable and if you define allowing your children to be bitten as acceptable, then you have to accept that the dog will bite your children.

He can be quite an aggresive dog, he's bitten me before trying to get him out from under the bed, he bit a stranger out on a walk once, my neighbour when he was dropping off some post and he's also bitten my daughter before, just a little nick on the arm when she was teasing him. [b]We tell her off for teasing him and try to watch them together all the time, but sometimes it's just not practical.[/b]

Fair play! Best troll for ages! Well done!

Cougar + 1

🙂

Our springer when we were younger was 'a bit enthusiatic', he was a bit aggressive to me and my brothers and my Mum. The only time he'd do as he was told was when Dad was home.

The vet said "put him down".

Mum took him to a trainer (apparently famous), who said cut his balls off and bring him to me twice a week. He started behaving himself after a while, although he was still a single minded bugger but wasn't aggressive.

However, I'm not convinced. It coincided with me and my brothers reaching puberty (and the associated growth spurts); I wonder if in his eyes we moved further up the hierarchy than we were before so he ended up on the bottom rung in the family.

Kids do need their own training with dogs...if a dog is nursing a sore foot, you shouldn't touch it unless you are someone the dog wouldn't mind touching it. And you certainly shouldn't try to take a bone/treat away from him.

BUT. The OPs dog has a history of being aggressive, which can't be tolerated. It's all about the acceptance of risk - if you're willing to accept the risk of him biting again then keep him, if not then you may need to consider your options (training/rehoming/put him down). Think about it this way - if your daughter's friend comes to visit and is bitten by the dog, do you think the parents of the friend will understand if you were to say "he's done it before, but we decided not to do anything".

Out of interest...have you ever trained him?

The reason I ask is some owners of small dogs don't bother as "they're only small". In my opinion, every dog should be trained - big and small, otherwise they'll make up their own rules.

Not sure why anyone ever asks a question like this on a forum such as STW. Asking for trouble.

We once had a rescue dog that bit my mum. He did it once, got the shit kicked out of him. Never ever even growled after that.

If it was my dog I'd try to keep him seperated, away from the kid (or any kids for that matter - including ones in public). If you aren't prepared to do this and the dogs trust aint an option then you know what to do 🙁

We once had a rescue dog that bit my mum. He did it once, got the shit kicked out of him. Never ever even growled after that.

So sorry to hear about this. A couple of points.

a) pack theory outdated? What has taken its place? I still train mine to be below me in the pack. I eat first, I sleep where I want, I go through doors and gaps first. I am in charge. Yes, they are allowed on the bed, but when invited. If I want them off (and I often make them get off for no particular reason other than to reinforce that it's my bed) they bloody well get off.

b) it sounds as if you've fallen into the common trap of not training your small dog. Sorry about this, if he's 12, you may struggle to train/retrain.

c) I am completely and utterly batty about dogs. Waaaaay prefer them to humans. BUT I think if he was my boy I would probably have him put to sleep. Why? Because he's getting on and the upheaval could be very upsetting for him, plus he may get moved on, and on, and on - which would be awful. The vet came out and put Sam to sleep in his favourite place at home, and Missy was put to sleep in the back of my car (one of her favourite places). In both cases, the vet was a trusted friend and the dog simply fell asleep. I'd love to die that way when my time comes.

d) my (hated) step-mother's ("thing") dog bit me on the face as we were preparing to go on holiday. It was a poodle, Nicky it was called. His bottom teeth went up inside my top lip and his top teeth came down on my nose. I spent the holiday looking like a clown. I still love dogs and am not afraid of them.

I still love dogs and am not afraid of them.

If you/your child fell off her/his bike, would you put the bike in the crusher?

If you had a car crash, would you crush it and never drive again?

Accidents happen Juan, but I have to admit this dog sounds like a recidivist.

tpbiker is my new hero 😀

pack theory outdated? What has taken its place? I still train mine to be below me in the pack.

have a read of some links if you're interested; http://www.woofology.com/alpha%20myth.html

I eat first, I sleep where I want, I go through doors and gaps first. I am in charge. Yes, they are allowed on the bed, but when invited. If I want them off (and I often make them get off for no particular reason other than to reinforce that it's my bed) they bloody well get off.

The dogs do all of these things because you have trained them to, not because they see you as it's pack leader.

If you/your child fell off her/his bike, would you put the bike in the crusher?

If you had a car crash, would you crush it and never drive again?

Lamest analogy ever... Has the bike crashed himself onto you errrr nope, same gors with the bike.

we did a bit of safety training the other day, as we go into peoples houses where they got dogs-its-ok-he-never-bites-type-things.

Bloke running the course said dachshunds are the nastiest bastards ever. statistics.

i hate dogs, stupid, barky, bitey and shit everywhere.

the owners are worse.

irelanst

I wouldnt bother I've been trying to tell this that the pack leader stuff is bollocks for years. That **** Ceasar Milan has a lot to answer for. Dogs dont even form packs left to their own devices and much of the pack leader bollocks about wolves has been dismissed due to the observation being based on captive wolves. You cannot make a dog behave by dominating it you should train it.

dangerous them Daschunds
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159108001147

Canine aggression poses serious public health and animal welfare concerns. Most of what is understood about breed differences in aggression comes from reports based on bite statistics, behavior clinic caseloads, and experts’ opinions. Information on breed-specific aggressiveness derived from such sources may be misleading due to biases attributable to a disproportionate risk of injury associated with larger and/or more physically powerful breeds and the existence of breed stereotypes. The present study surveyed the owners of more than 30 breeds of dogs using the Canine Behavioral Assessment and Research Questionnaire (C-BARQ), a validated and reliable instrument for assessing dogs’ typical and recent responses to a variety of common stimuli and situations. Two independent data samples (a random sample of breed club members and an online sample) yielded significant differences among breeds in aggression directed toward strangers, owners and dogs (Kruskal–Wallis tests, P < 0.0001).

Eight breeds common to both datasets (Dachshund, English Springer Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Poodle, Rottweiler, Shetland Sheepdog and Siberian Husky) ranked similarly, rs = 0.723, P < 0.05; rs = 0.929, P < 0.001; rs = 0.592, P = 0.123, for aggression directed toward strangers, dogs and owners, respectively. Some breeds scored higher than average for aggression directed toward both humans and dogs (e.g., Chihuahuas and Dachshunds) while other breeds scored high only for specific targets (e.g., dog-directed aggression among Akitas and Pit Bull Terriers). In general, aggression was most severe when directed toward other dogs followed by unfamiliar people and household members. Breeds with the greatest percentage of dogs exhibiting serious aggression (bites or bite attempts) toward humans included Dachshunds, Chihuahuas and Jack Russell Terriers (toward strangers and owners); Australian Cattle Dogs (toward strangers); and American Cocker Spaniels and Beagles (toward owners). More than 20% of Akitas, Jack Russell Terriers and Pit Bull Terriers were reported as displaying serious aggression toward unfamiliar dogs. Golden Retrievers, Labradors Retrievers, Bernese Mountain Dogs, Brittany Spaniels, Greyhounds and Whippets were the least aggressive toward both humans and dogs. Among English Springer Spaniels, conformation-bred dogs were more aggressive to humans and dogs than field-bred dogs (stranger aggression: Mann–Whitney U test, z = 3.880, P < 0.0001; owner aggression: z = 2.110, P < 0.05; dog-directed aggression: z = 1.93, P = 0.054), suggesting a genetic influence on the behavior. The opposite pattern was observed for owner-directed aggression among Labrador Retrievers, (z = 2.18, P < 0.05) indicating that higher levels of aggression are not attributable to breeding for show per se.

If you/your child fell off her/his bike, would you put the bike in the crusher?

If the bike spontaneously took it upon itself to maul him whilst he was sitting at home next to it, then yes, I would.