[Closed] Some van advice please

Trafics & Vivaros come as 6 seat crew vans with a plastic bulkhead behind the rear seats. You don't often see 2 seats in the front - you could get it as an option but it wasn't popular.

Merc Duoliner's probably what you're after.

You cannot change it to a car class, it stays as originally registered so you would need to get a vehicle sold as a car in the correct class from factory. I cannot remember the classes as it's not affected me.

You can register a campervan that supposedly increases the speed limit (grey area) but the DVLA have really clamped down recently so it would not qualify unless you did a full conversion (not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)

The speed thing makes less difference than you think. I only really notice on national speed limit dual carriageways where it's 60 rather 70. On single carriageway A roads I'm usually not the one holding up the traffic

How expensive to make the front two rotate and install some kind of table?

We got quoted £270 per seat for swivels supplied, fitted and handbrake relocated. Single passenger seat from eBay. Table was £70.

If you can find one then VW Caravelle, 7 seats, all the rear ones can come out and move around on rails. We ran ours as a 5 seater and swapped last year to a Kombi - purely as we never used the two middle seats. It's an MPV on the V5 so no issues re restricted speeds and indeed MOT class should it come to it.

I was corrected that the speed things a huge issue in the other thread.....despite having driven vans for over 10 years as my.primary vehicle.

Be very careful - often what you want if you want car speeds mean your paying emissions rated tax - often around 400 quid per year ...

You have to ce carefull when fitting rear seats as they should be crash tested, with VW T5's rear seat belt mountings to the body are often required. Normal vans dont have this and aftermarket brackes are welded in.
Better to have factory fitted seats as it's less hassle to insure and ultimatley safer.

I have a swivel base on my vivaro double passenger seat. It cost £250 and took about an hour to fit.

I'd agree the speed limit thing is not very, ahem, limiting in reality.

And I'd suggest starting out with a standard crew cab and seeing if you really think you need rotating chairs.

I have a swivel base on my vivaro double passenger seat. It cost £250 and took about an hour to fit.

I'm not about to fit one to mine, but it'd be interesting to see it swivelled.

VW Caravelle

I'm reluctant for the VW as I've heard too many horror stories (and experienced myself) VW's build quality and lack of reliability. That's balanced against they do hold thier residuals.

Does anyone do equivalent of Caravelle?

swivel base ... double passenger seat.

Old van had one of these. Easy to fit but required carpet trimming. Slight faff to swivel; push, turn, pull, turn, push maneuver and then hand bolts to lock in place. Took it out when we sold the van so if anyone wants one for a Mk6/7 Transit...

I have a swivel in our Trafic, for the passenger bench. Works really well. Gives lots of extra space in the "camper" part. Only downside is the pre-tensioners are disabled.

Registered as a camper is handy, living on the A9 with its ASCs. Vehicle tax is £260 ps.

I extended the cables on my pretensioners after forgetting to unplug them one day and snapping the cable. Now the cable is long enough to allow the seats to be in the swivel position. No carpet trimming was required on my particular van and it does make a huge difference.

This video on kiravans applies to the T5 but gives you an idea.

https://www.kiravans.co.uk/collections/frontpage/products/kiravans-t5-t6-double-seat-swivel-uk-right-hand-drive-model

Does anyone do equivalent of Caravelle?

Renault/Vivaro are both available as a "minibus" version. You could start with one of them, remove the rear seats and panel up the rear windows. It is classified as a car/MPV.

Ford do the Grand Tourneo for a similar approach.

Vito tourer (post 2015) or Vito Traveliner / Viano pre 2015

VW all the way for me. Just sold our T4 and got T6. Ours will be full camper conversion but capable of carrying a canoe or 2.
I will would happily have a kombi and a bed platform but wife wants the full camper luxury.
T6 is 140hp and more than powerful enough.

Ford Tourneo (Transit) Custom here, brain dump for you. It's an MPV on V5 so normal speed limits. We leave the back 3 seats out most of the time and just use it is a 5 seater (2+3) with space for bikes/diy etc. 2015 2.2 here, post 2016 are 2.0 with adblue etc and a bit less reliable by all accounts. Not particularly cheap to run at 40mpg at very best but we're happy with it as we don't do much mileage. Remapped 125>180bhp for towing a caravan. £240 tax and it is expensive and complicated to insure (even before remap) as there is a 9 seat version (full minibus) wihich means most insurers automatically won't quote. It's our main family car having come from large estates previously. You can also get a factory fit fold up roof rack for your canoes.

Other Tourneo observations - being a MPV, the suspension errs on the "comfortable" side rather than the firm "industrial" side of a Trafic/Vivaro. That makes it a nice cruiser but gets a bit wallowy on corners, especially if well loaded.

Fuel consumption on one of ours was chronically bad. We'd often joke about looking under it to see the leak. The other one (higher bhp - can't remember which) was better but still not as good as my Trafic.

Check the front door hinges have been replaced. The doors easily catch the wind and will bend the hinge, potentially damaging the front wing.

It's a very pleasant place to sit on long journeys. Comfy, relaxing. The rear seats can be folded up and hooked into a more forward fitting to increase load space if you've no passengers. Taking the seats out is really a 2-man job as it's a single and a pair.

VW. Caravelles are expensive - its what Alan Sugar drives his zombies around in on the Apprentice. Look for a Shuttle - more minibus-like and as a result loads cheaper usually and you can still remove rows of seats etc.

We've owned our T5 for nearly 6 years now and apart from routine maintenance and servicing its needed a driveshaft. Thats it. Don't be tricked into thinking VWs are expensive and unreliable, they're not.

I carry 2 canoes on the roof of my Doblo, with 150cm wide bars. I can't get them both flat, side by side, so one is on it's side against the upright. It can be a hassle to load/unload. 2 Canoes is really a 2 person job and requires a wee folding 3 step. One canoe is no bother as I have a roller and this make loading a cinch.

Look for something that will take w i d e bars. You will want at least 180cm. Get a roller too.

You could look a bit smaller at something like a LWB Caddy/Doblo/Kangoo. If you have back seats in a van you'll still need quite a long wheelbase to get 4/5 people AND bikes in. The smaller vans are lower which make roof loads easier, but still not as easy as a car. I know someone who got a Transporter, but wanted to sell their canoe as it was too difficult to load onto the roof.

So does that mean that minibus’s or crew vans with a M1 classification are car speed limits or does it have to be classified as an MPV?

Has anyone got a Proace/Dispatch/Expert, in XL/LWB?

@Troutwrestler - hola, good to meet you the other day.
I can hoick canoes onto the roof, I'll buy a rack with a roller on 🙂 I've lobbed them on transits regularly, mid roof plus roof rack 🙂

I'm on my second T5 with 5/6 seats. Insurance hasn't been the slightest bit of faff with Aviva. Reeled off a long list of mods and no batting of eyelids on either occasion and no more expensive to insure than my old Saab 93 estate.

As mentioned above, haven't had a "speed issue" since first getting a van in 2013.

Apparently wiring a microwave in to a van is enough to have it recategorised as a camper...so get that added under the swivel seat and you are sorted (don't attach seat to the rotating plate of the microwave!).

If I wasn’t a vw fanboy proace or dispatch is what I would have. I saw a nice camper conversion by Wellhouse with a sliding rock and roll bed.

Never driven one but the van seemed comfortable to sit in and well screwed together.

Dickbarton - no idea where you got that from, the list of requirements is large and includes fixed high top, graphics, washing, cooking, storage etc.

VWs are expensive and unreliable, they’re not.

Ill let my mate who's on his third engine know they ain't unreliable or expensive.

Infact i Aso have another mate locally who's is on his second engine.

But they keep throwing engines at them because they are so expensive.

You'll get a much newer van in almost any other brand for similar money.

Someone's been spinning you a yarn Dick.

(not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)

Not true, 3 in front and 2 on rock n roll bed is a standard config.

Transporters are the reverbs of vans, everyone has a bad story due to the sheer volume of them.

Dick, if you listen to some tales, you ain't getting it reclassified until you've cut a caravan door in the side, multiple windows and Bessacar written down the side. They don't care about no microwave anymore!

My van is fully converted, and re-registered, but from what I've read, would no longer qualify to be changed as to the average person watching me doing a hit-and-run, its a silver van when they call the police. Although the DVLA will concede its a 'van with (double glazed campervan) windows'.

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[i](not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)

Not true, 3 in front and 2 on rock n roll bed is a standard config.[/i]

True, I was imagining the OP was looking for a doublecab-in-van, i.e a day van. To go for a camper conversion you'd not want to buy a 5 seater only to rip out the rear seats/bulkhead etc, and remove the practicalities of a van you can throw junk (or bikes) in the back.

Yeah, I know there is more to it, but only the microwave would fit my attempt at a joke with the swivel seats...sorry, I figured it was such an obvious false piece of info without flagging there is more to it than that.

It's transport / day van only we're looking at.
Trying to get 3-5 bikes and canoes on holidays, bikes regularly through the week, plus somewhere for a dry cuppa and cake.

A friend has LWB Custom which they get family of 5 and 5 bikes in (front wheel off) on fore/aft racks in the boot which is ideal.

I'm looking at the new Proace/expert/dispatch in LWB and bigger engine They seem to do a lot more mpg, good low loading area, reaching the roof for canoes is easier etc.

Fall back is that Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar/Talento would also work.

I've even been trying to price up a local conversion - seems panel vans are so much cheaper, but then a good conversion is £3k+...

I've got a 20 year old T4 and absolutely love it. Bought it as a panel Van and converted it slowly as I could afford various bits. Used it for MTB adventures, racing, trips away. Now have 2 kids and we use it loads (apart from covid). Been to France 3 times all over the UK.

It's been very cheap to maintain. Guessing this is due to being a simple petrol engine.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pZ6UPrja88BHCy8k7

Next plans are solar panel and raising the suspension and chunkier tyres

And yes they recently changed the requirements for reclassifying as a motorhome. I was all set to do mine but now you have to have a high top rather than a pop top. There is a campaign to get the DVLA to recognise 'campervan' as a category

Former T5 owner here too.
I think the reverb anology above is about spot-on.
I had mine for 4 years and the only issue I had was a dpf fail. Common and known issue. Got a deal from VW on a replacement even though it was out of warranty.
Anyway on to the layout...
I wanted something to camp with (so we bought the awning and all the other bits) and something to transport bikes, get changed in, and be a good daily driver.
I bought a used 60 plate 140 6 speed manual panel Van that already had a set of window fitted.
I then got a set of caravelle seats front and back along with the proper floor with sliding rails fitted.
Also did the standard soundproofing and panelling.
It was fantastic and a big part of me wishes I hadn't sold it!
If you dm me I can send you pics of the interior. It was fantastically versatile.
And the rear seats converted into a bed.

Not cheap admittedly but with some DIY and some shopping around not silly money either.

Didn't feel like I lost much when I sold it 4 years on either.

I have a T6 and put in a swivel for the front bench seat. Easy to fit although the bolts needed a little persuasion. Went for the Rusty Lee one as it is a smoother action than the Kiravans one, a bit more expensive.
Bear in mind they add about 48mm to the height.

Transporters are the reverbs of vans, everyone has a bad story due to the sheer volume of them.

Nowhere near the number of vivaro/trafics out there, surely?

All vans are unreliable if you ask people on the internet. Maybe apart from older Toyotas.

I wouldn't buy Citroen after seeing my friend's experience. But I know some people have had less luck than me with vivaros.

It's all a bit of a gamble I suppose.

Maybe apart from older Toyotas.

I wouldn’t buy Citroen after seeing my friend’s experience.

Which for the past decade have been made on the same production line in France...

We can't all drive vans newer than 10 years old pal.

Just bookmarking for reference.

We can’t all drive vans newer than 10 years old pal.

You probably could if you weren't blinkered to vans that have perceived quality above actual.

Nowhere near the number of vivaro/trafics out there, surely?

My experience of folks with vans is in terms of day vans, family haulers, campers and bike vans, and pretty much all of them have transporters.

I can only think if one mate who had a vivaro, the amount of injectors and gearbox issues he had were stomach churning. I wouldn't base any future choice on that though, that'd be silly.

The hard bit with getting proper info on transporter reliability is trying to filter out the noise of the haters and the evangelists, both as bullshitty as the other IME.

You probably could if you weren’t blinkered to vans that have perceived quality above actual.

I was LITERALLY pointing out that you hear bad stuff about all vans. Do you have a selective reading disorder?

My experience of folks with vans is in terms of day vans, family haulers, campers and bike vans, and pretty much all of them have transporters.

Fair enough, Vivaro / Trafics are easily the most popular van among riders I know IRL - but more importantly they were ubiquitous among tradesmen and fleet operators over the past 20 years.

Transit making inroads now though, and that's what I'd buy if I was a bit more flush.

Every van will have bad stories and good ones, comes down to how you look after it and luck.
VW aren't as wide as Vivaro/Traffic, so not sure if that will matter.

I'd go for the longest and widest you can find in your price range. The height isn't too much of a concern as a step and troller can solve that (plus your whole family is tall so shouldn't just be you doing the loading!). Height with canoes will be an issue in strong side winds but I suspect that is normal with canoes on roof.

A few mate's have vans, all different manufacturers and all of them say they have the best one...so I suspect there is no bad choice - providing you don't get a duffer (but that can largely be down to luck).

All my opinions and not based on any real life ownership but did have several years of driving plenty vans, never owned them so no idea on maintenance costs.

Whatever you get will be a compromise, you just don't get everything you want, once you realise this, prioritise in order and go from there.

I agree nobeer.

My priorities:
- comfortable
- five seats and five bikes inside
- some oompf when we have canoes on roof
- reversing beepers
- cruise control

Nice to have
- auto
- not white

Future thoughts
- able to convert into a two person camper when the kids leave

Essential - galvanized.

I can hear my MK7 Transhit dissolving from the living room, my next van is going to have corrosion resistance above anything else, I can twiddle spanners but I can't be bothered dealing with rust.

Matt - I had 5 of guys, 5 MTBs and all our kit in a SWB Trafic Crew Cab for a drive/ferry to the IOM with no hassle.

When I bought my own Trafic I had windows and removable seats fitted and then insulated and carpeted it. That was pretty much perfect as an occasional "camper" with an airbed in the back. I preferred it over  the OEM Crew Cab version as there was more usable space without the bulkhead and the removable seats just made it more flexible - especially as they could be fitted in reverse (don't know if they'd be suitable for driving in this position). The insulating and carpeting makes it much more quiet to drive too. I also carried two 13ft SOTs on the roof, using a Rhino rack with a rear roller bar.

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We've since had it converted into a 2-berth campervan*.

I'd say you should definitely to for a LWB. It makes such a difference in both van and campervan usability.

*As a result, I still have the seats stored in my garage.....

I would spend my money on a early version T6 with the Euro 5 engine (140hp). This also has the 6 speed gearbox which is nice on a run.

I would go for a Trendline rather than Highline trim which you pay a premium for. Barn doors rather than tailgate. Although this is more van like it make loading boats easier as with the doors open you can stand on the rear bumper. Others may/will disagree but having had both I know loading my 16ft Esquif is easier with the barn doors.

I would then put a Cambee wide bed on rails in the back with the normal sound deadening and carpeted panels. Something like;
https://www.cambee.co.uk/vw-campervan-images/gallery-rosa/

When you’re ready you can then add one of their Pods and a dual battery set up with a nice compressor fridge. And if you want it a pop top roof. From memory SCA and Jerba roofs both capable of carrying 2 canoes.

@Matt_OAB your priorities are describing a tourneo custom to me, but I am biased. Far far cheaper than the respective VW T5/T6 too.

Whatever you go for, think about a lwb instead of the more common swb. Per make they are only 400mm or so longer, but can make the difference for loading bikes and kit. I have a swb t5 but will go for a lwb next time.

Running costs? Well it's needed a new turbo, exhaust manifold gasket, suspension bits, a rewire of the junction box in the floor (got wet and corroded), central locking bits, alternator, some egr sensors. On 130something k miles. On par for T5 ownership? Worse than other vans? Don't know.

I was LITERALLY pointing out that you hear bad stuff about all vans. Do you have a selective reading disorder?

He just doesn't like VWs because "a mate" has had to put 3 engines in his and another, 2.

I've had mine for 6 years in September, its not exactly standard and haven't had to replace the engine yet. Neither has one of my mates (a real one) who has the BiTDI Sportline (which admittedly, the early ones you want to avoid apparently unless they've had fix done). Another (real) mate has an 08 1.9 TDI and he's on his first engine too. I have LOTS of other mates/associates from the VW world and as far as I know, none of them (talking 50+ people) have had to replace engines.

Of course I do like VWs so yes I'm blinkered too but I'm not full of made up bullshit.

I did write a longish reply to koolaid ken but I've deleted it but I am here to say I might be alot of things but a liar I'm not.

Both those vans exist and both needed new engines- one of them twice and both are in our local group of riding buddies. I mean both are happy with their vans one just wishes he kept the vivaro he replaced with the shuttle.

Does anyone know - is a Transit Custom crew with only one sliding door a factory or aftermarket conversion?

one sliding door is factory I'm sure.

Edit - Nope, I may be talking pish, looks like the crew cab comes with both sides sliding.

Yeah DCIV (Transit Custom) comes with 2 doors.
Never had any real issues with T5.1 or Transit Custom Limited .
The T5 was a T32 Kombi DSG Trendline SWB which original owner specced to highline spec.
As there wasn’t a bulkhead, you could push bikes in, twist front and have handlebar just over the rear seats next to the headrests. Mine was insulated and carpeted in rear so not too noisey.
Transit Custom was LWB with fixed rear seats and bulkhead. Much quieter in the cab.
If you want to put multiple bikes in , I would go with a LWB .
I also spec tailgates as better for sitting under and less likely to be broken into ( less builder van looking ). Bit of a pain when loading pallets , but not had one we couldn’t get in yet.
The speed limit thing isn’t really a problem , I just usually stick cruise control on and don’t worry about it. And make sure you get something with aircon