[Closed] socialism vs capitalism......

How strange that the best place to live in the world (Norway which I love) has managed to become the best place to live in the world by mostly coalition governments since WWII

All the parties in this country say it won't work.

I think I'm going to look for a job in Norway.

enfht - Member

Hey Robespew how do you cope with all that hatred spewing from the pores of your skin? You must create a puddle wherever you stand...

LOL ! Yeah, because [u]you[/u] wouldn't use emotive language, would you enfht ?!!! 😀

So Robespierre called Forked Souls an "utter w**nker" and said "You are beneath contempt" ........ and that represents a "hate fueled left wing rant" ?

You are a clown enfht ................. get a grip of yourself mate

With a name like Robespierre one might not expect him to have much sympathy for the rich...

Hey Ernie I'm still waiting.....for the third time, was your hero Che a terrorist?

Ahh good to see this potentially interesting afternoon debate dissolve into a slagging match so quickly. 🙄

All capitalists are evil power hungry sociopaths.
All socialists are naive and very bad at maths.

[i]*throws a pie*[/i]

Ahh good to see this potentially interesting debate

now who's delusional ?

*throws a pie*

AND wasteful 🙁

You sound surprised that someone has taken the STW eugenics enthusiast to task, enfht? No problem with being called left wing cos that's what I am. Usually ignore the low level right wing mumble from this forum but did you read the post? Bloke's just plain ignorant...we are born helpless, sunk in our nursling dependency...even the kind of superman who regards anything less than physical perfection as a trait to be 'removed'. We depend upon kinship structures for our survival, and these go beyond the calculus of self-interest and self-agrandisment that form the narrow, conservative notion of 'human nature' that routinely gets trotted out as a repudiation of socialism...whateve socialism means now.

I heard Dawkins (for the first time) on the telly the other night suggesting we have a gene for kindness. Kinda like squirrels randomly burying nuts everywhere, if people are habitually kind they're likely to get it back too :o)

Hey Ernie I'm still waiting....

Well you'll be waiting a long time if you think I'm going to waste my time trying to have a serious discussion with you, after the bollox you wrote on the other thread.

.

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How's that for a "hate fueled left wing rant" enfht ? Eh ?

Did you feel all that hatred spewing from the pores of my skin? I must create a puddle wherever I stand...

LOL ! 😀

I am with robespierre...
Now where the fouck is my guillotine...

Since the beginning of the welfare state post 2nd world war we have become a broadly centralist society.

I believe however our expectations cannot be met as society stands now.

As cold as its sounds social benefits cost, so who creates this wealth and how should it be distributed.

Going back to the days when "horse tablets" were taken because you could not afford a doctor I am glad are a thing of the past.

However expectation without working for the common good of society I feel is becoming the norm.

I like to think I am a practical socialist, I run my own company, provide good well paid employment, realise that there is a need in society to support others.

We need a balance of both

I must create a puddle wherever I stand...

Sorry sorry sorry
Igmc

[cough] Ernie - RB is trying to get hold of you. [/cough]

as to the "discussion above" - being an old style wet I'm out, as bizarrely I'm more left wing than all of the current models.

Ah, glad its all calmed down! I only logged on to see if anyone is using the 2010 rev race maxle's and suddenly I'm not in Kansas anymore.

It's funny that everyone admires the Scandinavian model but I can't see a party getting elected on a promise to raise taxes to >50% on everything you earn, 25% VAT on everything you buy and 180% on cars (not to mention the other endless list of taxes) that is required to pay for the state care that we get in Scandinavia.

Do any of you really think for a minute that you'd vote for a party that wanted to effectivelu double your tax burdon?

BTW Norway doesn't pay for their welfare from oil revenue, it is primarily tax income like the rest of the Nordics.

Do any of you really think for a minute that you'd vote for a party that wanted to effectivelu double your tax burdon?

I would if I thought they would spend it effectively.

Can't pretend to be an expert on this but aren't the wages in Scandinavian countries quite high, which in turn allows a larger tax take than the European norm without diminishing consumer spending? Still appalled at the price of beer in Sweden though...seems like utopia remains as tantalisinly out of reach as ever.

Wages are somewhat higher, but so is the cost of living. All in all I think we have less spending power but I don't have th figures to hand to confirm this (I'll check)
When I moved here I got a 20% pay increase (it was a promotion of sorts as well) and my net income fell by 15%. Cost of living is about 20% higher than the UK in my experience.

oddjob - Member

If the taxes are so high, why does it still have one of the highest standards of living in the world?

I notice that Denmark is 16th on the list and Sweden 7th. How does taxation differ between the countries?

I just checked here and I can see Denmark is 16th and UK is 19th so not a big difference

Well it made me chuckle 😀
I didn't want a discussion just a yey or neh but if you feel it would take more than a one-worded answer then you've answered the question, namely "yes he was but rant rant rant" 😉

So, who's brave enough to clarify exactly what RB got up to at the BBB???

So far I've established he was drunk, naked, in the shower area, late at night, abusing mixed groups of stw'ers. but what else went on????

So, who's brave enough to clarify exactly what RB got up to at the BBB???

Denmark is the highest taxed in the world and Sweden second. Danmark overtook them last year.

What is standard of living defined as?
We have good health care, education, care for the elderly etc. We don't have as many super rich people as far as I can see and in general a lower disposable income. There are a lot of people in Denmark who live a very frugal life, on a global scale they are well off, they have what they need, but there is not much money for luxury items like £3k mountain bikes...
I'm not complaining about it, it is nice here (dull but that's another story) but there is a massive difference in attitude towards tax and the state compared with the UK

List I looked at puts Sweden 15th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Norway is up at 3 but that is probably becuase they are not in the EU and it saves them a lot of money that they are getting from oil

I am but the BBB etiquette is that the only one that can speak about it is RB.

spoil sport

Anyhoo what about STW etiquette? (ie get stuck in)

aP - Member

[cough] Ernie - RB is trying to get hold of you. [/cough]

Done. I believe YGM aP

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enfht - Member

I didn't want a discussion just a yey or neh but if you feel it would take more than a one-worded answer

Well if you're happy with "more than a one-worded answer", how about * off * ?

HTH

That's actually 3 words Che-Ernie...

Do you dream of a Marxist Revolution in the UK as well?

oddjob - Member

I think you might be looking at a different list. Norway made the news yesterday as the 'Best place to live', I assume because it happened recently.

I've been looking a the indeces for the national income equality (the Gini coefficient) in an attempt to find out more about a measure of the standard of living. It's a list from 2005, but Denmark comes right at the top (if there is a top) i.e. there is a smaller gap between what the highest and lowest earners are paid. Norway was also quite high on the list as is Sweden. The UK is quite a long way down.

Do you feel that Denmark is a 'fairer' society?

Capitalism is the exploitation of the many by the few

Socialism is the opposite

quote by some French bloke

(or something like that..........)

quote by some French bloke

Careful, didn't De Gaulle believe that he liberated France from the Nazis?

GDP per capita is not the same as standard of living!

Do you feel that Denmark is a 'fairer' society?

At least they stick up for their cartoonists.

GDP per capita is not the same as standard of living!

Which in turn isn't the same as [i]quality[/i] of life.

You need poor people to dig roads and shovel crap for you otherwise a lot of very rich people are very quickly going to find themselves up to their knees in shit. Actually I've answered that one haven't I? Capitalism works, if you re-introduce slavery.

you have just described the system in saudi arabia

you have just described the system in saudi arabia

Which in turn, keeps our premiership clubs out of administration and the prospect of minus 10 points. Thank the bejesus for oil.

As the Prison Governors Association are suggesting we stop short term jail sentences. How about getting all the petty criminals to 'dig roads and shovel crap' as community service. They might even learn as skill while they're at it.

It's clear that none of you Scandinavian fanboys have the remotest grasp of economic systems like what I have...

[url= http://www.pintprice.com/top10expensive.php ]Norway, £6.00 for a pint of lager[/url]
That is a failed economic model IMO. End of thread 😉

Stoner - Member

According to my Irish neighbours, it costs that much for a Guinness in Dublin.

Plus all the Norwegans I knew got pissed on home brew before they went to the pub.

As the Prison Governors Association are suggesting we stop short term jail sentences. How about getting all the petty criminals to 'dig roads and shovel crap' as community service. They might even learn as skill while they're at it.

The people who are paid to dig the roads and to shovel crap might be a bit annoyed about that.

According to my Irish neighbours, it costs that much for a Guinness in Dublin.

And that's only before nine o'clock!

The people who are paid to dig the roads and to shovel crap might be a bit annoyed about that.

They will need teaching and supervising. Why not pay them to do that?

From Stonor's pintprice website....

[i] AA Milne's Bottom
A fine and hearty brew from the Abbey of Sputum. The monks mix their phlegm with the hand picked bakers yeast and festering semen. A spunky beverage. 4 Stars in the Drunken Monk. No need to drink a lot of beer in order to vomit, have just one of these. It's like drinking c** - Silly Goolden (wine and beer expert). [/i]

Stoner - Member

Norway, £6.00 for a pint of lager
That is a failed economic model IMO. End of thread

What do you think of Iceland as an economic model Stoner ? Did Dan Hannan get it right ?

[i]£6 for a pint[/i]

Tangent to the thread, please.

Whilst of yer usual mixed British (in my case Anglo/Irish) descent, I have a Scandinavian surname - one which I suspect is the residual consequence of a [i]quite different[/i] economic model (raiding and pillage). Maybe we should try that?

What do you think of Iceland as an economic model Stoner

Iceland were brought down by a bad marketing strategy IMO
[img] [/img]