Many pensioners were alive during the war (just) and even the 50's and 60's were not great for having a heated house if you were poor. Even in the 70's when I was a kid our house was cold in winter (victorian semi with a couple of storage heaters and no heating in bedrooms)
Didn't do me much good though as I now feel cold if sitting in a house that is below 21 degrees.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen another time when the Leader of the Opposition gets as much blame for the current situation of the country as well as the actual Govt of 12 years
Probably because he is consistently presented with open goals like this..........
Rishi is now on Radio 4..........He’s going to cut VAT on fuel and that’s it. Job jobbed!
........ and does nothing about it.
I'd expect anyone remote to the left to be screaming that cuts in tax and VAT merely offer more austerity in order to maintain the profit levels of the big corporations.
He's just too scared of offending those very corporations to actually offer anything in the way of effective opposition.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen another time when the Leader of the Opposition gets as much blame for the current situation of the country as well as the actual Govt of 12 years
Isn't strange how perceptions vary between individuals?
For me it is the completed opposite, I can't recall a leader of the Opposition offering so little "opposition" offering so little alternative and receiving so little blame.
The profound affect that an Opposition leader can have on the fortunes of a government is indisputable. A good example would be Margaret Thatcher although a much more recent example would be last week - after a long period of small single digit leads the Opposition poll lead suddenly jumped to impressive double digit leads as a direct result of the Opposition leader offering a proposal to help alleviate the current cost of living crises.
Not only did it cause public support for the government to tumble but it also resulted in one senior cabinet minister to panic and offer some hairbrained counter-proposal involving GPs becoming the arbitrators of non-medical financial issues.
And as the FT piece which the comment refers to points out the aptitude of the leader of the Opposition can even have a small bearing on the outcome of a leadership contest within the ruling government party.
Btw I no idea what this means: " as well as the actual Govt of 12 years". We haven't had the same government for the last 12 years and I not aware of the current Opposition leader being blamed for the situation during the time of the coalition government or the government of Theresa May. Can you clarify?
The thing I don’t get though, is aren’t pensioners as equally scared about how they’re going to pay their fuel bill as the rest of us? I mean even you’re sitting on a pile of house in Eastbourne or Bournemouth, if it going to cost £5000 to heat it and put the lights on..?
There are pensioners and pensioners.
There's pensioners that retired on final salary pensions in a pile of a house in Eastbourne.
And there's pensioners s struggling to keep going on the state pension in a terraced house in Everton.
He’s just too scared of offending those very corporations to actually offer anything in the way of effective opposition.
McLibel Trail Especially the part about the ECHR. I don't think Starmer is an effective communicator, and hasn't found his voice in a way that many Labour supporters would've hoped. I don't think it's because he's scared particularly
Can you clarify?
The nuance that the government is dissolved every few years and a new government starts is just that, a nuance. It's definitely fair to say "the conservative government of the last 12 years is to blame for this shitshow" (I paraphrase).
Even in the 70’s when I was a kid our house was cold in winter (victorian semi with a couple of storage heaters and no heating in bedrooms)
Bleedin ell...... you had storage heaters!! How posh was that - they must have been brand new state of the art technology back then!
We had to do press-ups to keep warm.
There are pensioners and pensioners.
Sure, but anyone comparing the bills they've been paying and what coming over the hill...I can't imagine they're going to look at anything Truss or Sunak have said recently and be content, can you?
How any reasonably minded, literate person can support this right wing mess of a Tory party is beyond me.
"We must leave the ECHR because it prevents us doing what we want to do."
That alone should be enough for any "normal" human being to want anyone but them.
That's before the right to strike and protest stuff.
Three weeks later, Hitler issued a decree that banned collective bargaining and stated that a group of labour trustees, appointed by him, would "regulate labour contracts" and maintain "labour peace."[5] This decree effectively outlawed strikes, since workers could not oppose the decisions of the trustees
One People. One Leader. One Country.
Btw I no idea what this means:
actual Ignorance or just hyperbole?
It’s definitely fair to say “the conservative government of the last 12 years is to blame for this shitshow” (I paraphrase).
It is definitely not fair to say that. The coalition government, for example, cannot be blameless, and they involved different leaders, different ministers, different people, different political parties.
I am not aware of the current Opposition leader being blamed for their failures.
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I don’t go in much for this sort of public outing, but I’ve seen this in it’s original German and now in English from a couple of posters, as a Jew, this is pretty **** offensive, I will report it from now on.
What?
actual Ignorance or just hyperbole?
It means that I don't understand what you are refering to. In the same way that I don't understand why you have used "hyperbole" in that context.
Even I don't have that amount of time to access royalty free templates Binners - to make a point.
But that does remind me - thanks...
James O'Brien was digging in at Starmer this morning for not really offering much of an alternative solution to anything the Tories have have messed up.
I don’t go in much for this sort of public outing, but I’ve seen this in it’s original German and now in English from a couple of posters, as a Jew, this is pretty **** offensive, I will report it from now on.
Especially for you Nick - (the second) Miranda rights for Jewish people:
It is definitely not fair to say that.
The coalition government was dominated by the tories and whilst some individuals have changed others have been in one government post or another for pretty much the entire period. Truss for example got her first proper government job in 2014.
Maybe "conservative government" needs "special mention to the libdem supporting act for the first few years" but seems a bit overkill for a forum discussion.
@rone - photoshopped just for you, comrade 😀
Any chance of you and the rest of the politburo following directions?
What?
Lost on me too - or was it satire?
Bleedin ell…… you had storage heaters!! How posh was that – they must have been brand new state of the art technology back then!
If a few bricks contained in a metal box to store heat from cheap overnight electric was state of the art then yes, but they were certainly not great for keeping a house warm.
Any chance of you and the rest of the politburo following directions?
No.
The coalition government was dominated by the tories
And its economy policies were enthusiastically sold to the public by two senior Liberal Democrat politicians - Vince Cable and Danny Alexander. The idea that Starmer has been blamed for their policies or that it is the same government as the current one is obviously nonsense.
What?
simple I've seen it a few times in just the last couple of days, in both German and now in English (twice) just be aware that's it's offensive and I'll report it to the Mods, they may or may not take action. That's it.
@ernielynch: Jewish woman and her son go to the beach, a huge wave rolls in a the kid is swept under, the woman cries out "Oh God, save my son". The clouds part, the angelic host sings, and a hand pucks the boy from the water and places him gently on the sand next to his mum. His mum looks up and says "he had a hat"
There’s pensioners that retired on final salary pensions in a pile of a house in Eastbourne.
This. To use my MiL as an example, she's sitting on a million pound house in leafy Kent and is bringing in roughly the same as I am every month via various pensions from her late husband which she barely spends. At a family gathering last week the subject of energy prices was high on the list of conversation and to say she couldn't (or wouldn't) understand is an understatement. There was a story last week in the Daily Heil that schools might go to a 3-day week because they can't pay their energy bills. Her reaction when someone mentioned it was to tut and roll her eyes. I really think a lot of her generation just think we're all being a bit soft, which is ironic as I can't think of a single person who has been more pampered and insulated from real life as my MiL.
Anyone trying to convince themselves that it couldn't get any worse, surely...
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1562320588991078400?s=20&t=zXLPCRtFGiHU-5wSbolBKA
Given that this numbskull* has been tipped for a senior cabinet position under Truss, we could soon be longing back to the days of relatively competent government under Johnson
Be afraid...
Be very, very afraid...
*I've repeatedly checked if this is a parody account, but its the real deal. It really is John Redwood and he's utterly beyond parody, he's so unhinged
and to say she couldn’t (or wouldn’t) understand is an understatement.
Doesn't matter though does it? She's still going to get a bill isn't she. and it'll still be a shock.
Hadn't realised it was a Jewish joke, it must've been removed - but if it'd been about a lady from Yorkshire or Aberdeen would it have been ok?
??
the bit that wound me up was the "One Country" quote that @globuchul posted. he got the broadside as that's the 3rd time I've seen it in as many days and it set off a reaction (perhaps an over-reaction) I don't understand why folk would use it - even if they think they're using it as satire. Unless it's a thread about the propaganda of the Nazi party in the early 1930's then just don't. It isn't funny and it can easily offend.
simple I’ve seen it a few times in just the last couple of days, in both German and now in English (twice) just be aware that’s it’s offensive and I’ll report it to the Mods, they may or may not take action. That’s it.
Offensive? When used in a sarcastic manner to highlight how far to the right this government is going?
She’s still going to get a bill isn’t she. and it’ll still be a shock.
Nah the one group who will be sheltered will be the tory pensioners with possibly the other pensioners benefiting just because having a reverse means test would be a tricky political sell.
She’s still going to get a bill isn’t she. and it’ll still be a shock.
She doesn't look at her bank accounts so probably not. TBF she hasn't got a clue about money and doesn't understand inflation. She thinks everything costs the same as it did in 1990. If she's typical then it would explain a lot.
I really think a lot of her generation just think we’re all being a bit soft, which is ironic as I can’t think of a single person who has been more pampered and insulated from real life as my MiL.
My Uncle. Paid off from the Water Board at privatisation on a full final salary pension.
Full-on Brextiter/Gammon, thinks folk should just work harder - the ****er retired in his early 50's!
the bit that wound me up was the “One Country” quote that @globuchul posted.
I read it as drawing a parallel between Truss's output and Nazi propaganda, for the purposes of criticising Truss.
the ****er retired in his early 50’s!
Aye. My MiL never did a day's paid work in her life. Her husband retired aged 55 and for a good 15-20 years they toured the world on expensive holidays. I don't begrudge them their retirement, but I don't think these people have any understanding or concept of what people of our generation and our kids are facing. I mean I'm not complaining too much, I've been lucky myself but I certainly won't be retiring in my 50s, and fully expect to be supporting my kids well into their 20s or beyond.
As someone who regularly makes jokes about what us lefties are going to do once we're put into 're-education' camps, I'm not 100% sure why the One Country thing is offensive. I'm not saying it's not, just that I don't see why and would like to know more and if I step over the line with my jokes.
Admittedly my jokes aren't really funny and more a comment on the lurch towards blood and soil nationalism and authoritarianism the UK is experiencing right now. But then that's how I take the One Country line as well.
Oops
It’s all here, the whole 9-yards:
https://twitter.com/secrettory12/status/1562326764612993024?s=20&t=mNcGzlgoH2MNVrbwv5O4xg
Why can some posts be reported and others can’t?
I think that means someone else has already reported it.
I think that means someone else has already reported it.
Which makes for an interesting observation in the complex world of being offended.
My post claiming that you can't be "easily" offended by "One People. One Leader. One Country" gets reported, but the actual so-called offending post doesn't get reported at all.
So presumably someone has been offended by me saying that they can't be easily offended by something which it turns out hasn't offended them that much.
If I've got that right.
Anyway vaguely back on topic.....it would appear that neither contender for the position of UK Prime Minister have much to offer when the country is faced with an unprecedented economic crises, people genuinely fear for the future, and the current situation offers so little hope.
Which, at the risk of offending someone, are the very conditions which the far-right, bigots, and racists, thrive on.
But in response Truss and Sunak offer nothing more than a further lurch to the right.*
The seriousness of the situation really needs to be grasped and the left need to get their shit together and offer some creditable alternative policies, vision, and hope.
Edit: * And deporting non-European refugees of course.
I'd be inclined to report it purely for the fact your posts are always far too long.
The seriousness of the situation really needs to be grasped and the left need to get their shit together and offer some creditable alternative policies, vision, and hope.
Unfortunately, the left are still tiptoe-ing around eggshells, not daring to criticise Brexit, they've lost the easy win they had (criticising Boris at every turn) and now just have to wait for the leadership thing to play out and for whatever random crowd-pleasing shite the new leader has spoken to actually become policy or be swept aside as just something they said to get into power. An awful lot of their proposed policies will fall into the second category.
Sadly, the leadership thing has left the country completely rudderless, it's also summer recess so nothing is happening in Parliament and nothing the left says is going to make it into the news anyway.
As an alternative policy, vision and hope, I'd start with rounding up all Brexiteers and Tories and deporting them to Rwanda (if only to see the look on Priti's face when her own heartless policy gets used against her) then concentrate on tidying up the literal tides of shit they've released.
It's almost too easy to be a satirist these days.
https://twitter.com/secrettory12/status/1562341938812043264
Full-on Brextiter/Gammon, thinks folk should just work harder – the ****er retired in his early 50’s!
They all repeat the same tropes:
- Politicians are all liars anyway
- All homeless people are fake/organised beggars
- Corbyn/Labour was/is going to let them all in (heard it too many times it's a bigger issue than forum members think!)
- Choosing between heating and eating, maybe they should buy less booze/drugs and fags or get a job
- Everyone rents in Europe
- Can't afford a house, they should work hard like I did, get another job instead of staring at their phones.
If only we could all be as right as they are, with everyone surrounding patting each other on the back in agreement. Cheered on by politicians who are only interested in exploiting there anger for power and a willing press/media who goad and agitate to sell papers, garner views and keep themselves in a job.
Almost forgot now they are retired it's all good for everyone else to be forced to retire later/never as people are fitter now!
The last civil servant in charge of the department who instigated raising the retirement age, retired early on 100 and odd grand a year pension.
Go to Uni on grants then take it away for the following generations, all seems a bit of stitch up to me.
On pensioners and the rest of us… (and I apologise to all our forum members of retirement age, I know this doesn’t apply to you) but the Telegraph has a “reader” led piece that spells out exactly how this extended period of declining real wages, workers rights, human rights, environmental standards, living standards and an atmosphere of general shittness foisted on us mostly by a Brexit and Tory supporting swollen pensioner vote has been and will be presented to and accepted by its enablers…
…you only really need the headline.
The leadership campaign needs to be looked at in this light. Remember who the ageing and mostly well off Tory members think are the problem… after immigrants… it’s all of the rest of us.
