mattyfez Free Member
apparently Labour voters.
I didn’t say ALL Labour voters, I said racist/pro brexit labour voters, that’s an important distinction.
I see, only Labour voters that vote incorrectly then.
But how come mattyfez a couple of days ago on the Starmer thread you were describing Labour as, quote, "unelectable"?
You think people should vote Labour despite you personally believing that Labour are unelectable?
I'll remind you:
mattyfez Free Member
Lol, this thread is nothing more than a circle jerk amongst the same people.
And those people don’t get why Labour are unelectable. And so continues the circle
For ages I've been trying to work out who Truss reminds me off...
If only she was that good
Can’t say I’m a huge fan of Will Hutton but this is bang on as far as the economics go. Pity he has little to say about how to help the working class. As with most centrists they obsess about the educated entrepreneurial elite and ignore the rest.
Be interesting to see what traction the Enough is Enough campaign gains when they start the rallies next week.
I think Liz Truss is about to emulate Maggie with her very own Poll Tax moment, potentially before she even becomes PM.
Entrepreneurial ≠ Educated. Plenty of highly educated people who can’t see past being a highly specialised employee, and plenty of successful small business owners who never pursued anything academic past school (and these people are being screwed by the Tories).
Entrepreneurial ≠ Educated.
True, but the likes of Hutton are obsessed with this small set of people. He may be right that the tories economic policies (and the wider consensus on deregulation) discourage startups in the academic sector, but where he's missing a trick is that most people outside of this tiny clique don't give a shit about the dozens/hundreds of jobs they can provide to people with PhDs and masters degrees. The 'knowledge economy' is all well and good but it doesn't provide jobs on the scale needed by the majority of the workforce.
Will Hutton has always been vocal about apprenticeships, non-academic training, start up funds for young people wanting to start up their own businesses… he’s not solely University focused, but he’s correct to point out that the government is putting barriers in the way of doing research and capitalising on it in the UK.
Looks like she's squatting, ready to curl one out.
Yep on the great unwashed 🙂
The high street is going to crash even further.
Business energy has no cap whatsoever.
A chippy owner was on the radio the other day, his bill will be going from £12k to £70k. Unsupportable.
Any high street shop that uses a lot of energy for heat or refrigeration is doomed. Butchers, bakers, takeaways will all become crazy expensive.
Local engineering companies, you know the small set ups with 10 or 20 employees in a unit.
Local micro breweries.
To give an example of a few.
They will all be absolutely ****ed.
This energy crisis is massive. The price hikes will be simply unaffordable.
And this lot will do **** all.
And this lot will do **** all.
I can’t see them not doing anything but they are going to rinse you whilst they still can.
Business energy has no cap whatsoever.
They will all be absolutely ****ed.
This
Talking to mates last week who own what was/is a thriving business that they've worked their arses off to build. Their energy costs have gone through the roof, to the point where he's questioning if its even now sustainable over the winter once the next price hikes hit.
I see absolutely no sign that there is even a flicker of an acknowledgment of the gathering storm, let alone any ideas about how to deal with it
The reduced tax will cover it won't it?... Won't it!?!?!
^this is the thing... it all has a knock on effect, take a cafe for example, if people eat out less you'll be taking less over the counter, and if you're paying a cook and a cashier/waiting staff, and you have to keep the lights and the fryers/ovens/coffee machine/beer pumps/chillers on... and your bills are going up...
I've seen it in spain off season, bar/restos sometimes just close for winter or only open in the evening, or even only evenings thur-sun, as you just can't afford to keep 'the lights on' if you're only getting a dribble of few casual diners/drinkers during the day. You'd be lucky to make enough to pay your staff, never mind rent, tax, gas, electric, stock, it just becomes a loss maker.
Neither leadership contender looks particularly popular
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1558729672187428865?t=rXbNasNdsXOQfIVKm_lyXA&s=19
Talking to mates last week who own what was/is a thriving business that they’ve worked their arses off to build.
The impact on household finances is only the tip of the iceberg. Capping household prices will prevent riots and mass non-payment. It won’t solve the greater problem of a massive recession with millions of jobs lost in the hospitality sector. Starmer needs to catch up quick. This is a 2008 or covid scale crisis and nothing less than the same scale of govt intervention is required.
They won't be capping them anywhere near low enough though and to be honest they can't without spending a lot. The people that provide domestic customers are not generally the ones making a killing at the moment, hence we had loads go bust last year. Each household needs at least a couple of grand, not a couple of hundred pounds.
If we'd invested seriously in renewables 20 years ago instead of spending money on the oil wars we might have been ok. We need to building wind farms everywhere, not just in the sea and massively subsidising domestic solar. With thus lot there's no chance.
Good job we have two such great candidates for the top job then.
We need to building wind farms everywhere, not just in the sea and massively subsidising domestic solar. With thus lot there’s no chance
They’re promising to put a stop to any more wind turbines as the racist pensioners in Surrey think they don’t look very nice
Welcome to the madhouse that is Brexitland
Could be a way to save some UK farmers following the "wonderful" post-Brexit deals, creating fields of "little Holland" wind turbines.
We're all ****ed.
This is way beyond 2008.
This is way beyond 2008.
Agree. Energy is at the core of all economic activity. Triple the price of it overnight without any other action and it’ll result in total collapse. Surely people in government understand this? We’re going to sleepwalk into economic armageddon at the altar of free market ideology. This will be the 3rd wholesale bailout required from governments in 14 years. The system doesn’t work.
2008 will be heaven.
This time it'll bite at a lower level people will cut back on stuff, so hospitality, decorating etc. These are the 1st things people cut back on. Then it'll feed up to bigger things, appliances cars etc
Where 2008 was top down thus is bottom up and as such it'll be very obvious.
Still… it’s nice to know that our glorious leader is enjoying his second holiday in 3 weeks, after making a brief appearance last week to assure us that Liz or Rishi will probably get round to doing something about it all at some point in October. Maybe.
https://twitter.com/parody_pm/status/1558551664440872960?s=21&t=IpwkZELtbBafkhjOjqGELQ
We need to building wind farms everywhere, not just in the sea and massively subsidising domestic solar.
This. This. This.
We’re getting the opposite.
We need to kick the Tories out.
IMO most folk still haven't worked out what is going on. Remember "Singapore on the Thames"?
We don't get from been a stable European social democracy to a free-market* wild west without a bit of 'turmoil' - this is what we're seeing, and IMO we've passed the tipping point.
* 'free market' actually means 'loaded market', to the advantage of those with assets/influence
Do you think Sunak would concede if he was offered his old job back ? (and the tories are supposed to be the politically astute party, three more weeks of this fiddling while Rome burns jesus ****ing wept what are they thinking ? )
i thought all candidates had agreed they wouldn't withdraw and it would go to the party vote.
it usually goes blah blah for the national good blah blah crisis blah do the honourable thing blah blah party unity blah blah heart blah blah patriotic duty blah blah
On a positive note, #GetBackToWorkYouFatPonce is now trending on Twitter and Boris is getting heckled with it while he's on holiday
https://twitter.com/davidblackfin/status/1558791682589708288?s=20&t=EnTx_TCeeiDBfoCG1zBi4g
massively subsidising domestic solar.
Personally I'd like to avoid domestic solar becoming the middle class gravy train that it did last time with FiT's etc (although I presume they'll look less generous now than they did 2 years ago).
I'd rather avoid "subsidy" altogether and just have the government set up a state owned operator and plough the money into larger scale projects, that way in principal at least, we all benefit. Not just those who directly own the roof of their home.
IMO most folk still haven’t worked out what is going on. Remember “Singapore on the Thames”?
We don’t get from been a stable European social democracy to a free-market* wild west without a bit of ‘turmoil’ – this is what we’re seeing, and IMO we’ve passed the tipping point.
* ‘free market’ actually means ‘loaded market’, to the advantage of those with assets/influence
Totally this. And Brexit showed them what a reactionary, insular, prejudiced society we are - on average (enough of an average to win). So long as they can identify an 'other' for people to hate they can apply that 'other' to whatever good thing they are trying to take away. You'll still get enough people to raise their stiffened bodies out of their freezing house, stumble down the road and vote for more of the same if you can convince them someone else is either coming over here to take it all* away from you or living it up on benefits by having eight kids.
*Even when all is actually nothing you can wrap it in a union jack and tell them it is at risk somehow.
Do you think Sunak would concede if he was offered his old job back ?
As Jam-bo says they all agreed not to do this since it got some backlash when May got elected.
Considering what they have been saying about each other and their policies it would be somewhat tricky to either offer a job or accept it.
Boris is getting heckled with it while he’s on holiday
If I see him I'm going to heckle him with eggs, tomatoes, bottles.... Generally anything I have to hand.
I see absolutely no sign that there is even a flicker of an acknowledgment of the gathering storm, let alone any ideas about how to deal with it
Well you can't take apart leftist ideals and moan about the market at the same time.
When you're banging on about being idealogically pure we're banging on about pragmatism to solve these issues.
I personally find it incredible that anyone is interested in the media frenzy of a candidate selection, that we have no choice of. I'm not giving any of it the time of day or oxygen. I'll only be interested unless we have an election to show what we think of this shower.
JeZ
If I see him I’m going to heckle him with eggs, tomatoes, bottles…. Generally anything I have to hand.
You'd need to be quick and have a good throwing arm - all of the above tend to bounce off of the exterior of a fridge.
I personally find it incredible that anyone is interested in the media frenzy of a candidate selection, that we have no choice of. I’m not giving any of it the time of day or oxygen
...apart from reading and commenting on this thread
just have the government set up a state owned operator and plough the money into larger scale projects
Let's not let pragmatism get in the way of ideology then. This approach won't work because.
A we need it now, big projects take years.
B have you seen how our government manages big projects, will cost us all in the end.
C the government doesn't invest, it might disproportionately benefit the middle class but why shouldn't it, they will be the ones financing this, taking on maintenance costs etc.
D the whole point was to minimise impact, use existing roof space not create massive fields of panels, the Nimbys will have a field day.
E lots of micro generation makes the grid more resilient, better than big points of failure.
F should ultimately bring down everyone's bills, if the government is going to invest it should be in energy storage so the excess goes back into the grid. The less the grid relies on fossil fuel the cheaper everyone's bills become.
lots of micro generation makes the grid more resilient, better than big points of failure.
An important point.
Also, in terms of the physical impact, getting energy generation onto roofs across the suburbs makes perfect sense. Those roofs are already there. No space is lost. Also… these suburban homes are where all the cars will be charging very soon.
The less the grid relies on fossil fuel the cheaper everyone’s bills become.
This. This. This.
When was the last hydro storage site built to cope with peak demand on winter nights? Can they also double up as water storage sites for summer droughts? Joined up thinking. Big investments. Planning for climate change and unstable fuel markets. Positive outcomes for us all.
When was the last hydro storage site built to cope with peak demand on winter nights? Can they also double up as water storage sites for summer droughts? Joined up thinking. Big investments. Planning for climate change and unstable fuel markets. Positive outcomes for us all.
Hydro is now considered a no-no.
Regards the hydro storage, didn't they only build one?
We need modern nuclear and tidal.
Also, offshore wind is getting very expensive again, the cost of construction, is linked to the oil price.
Regards the hydro storage, didn’t they only build one?
They are rather expensive and limited as to where they can be built. One in Wales and a couple in Scotland.
There are some other interesting technologies coming out eg using sand as an energy store.
