Any EU countries recently told lawyers to stop informing ministers when their activities are illegal, comrade?
Literally declaring themselves above the law?
.... just us then?
I wonder what facilitated that?
Its a complete mystery
I'm sorry are you seriously suggesting Viktor Orban or Mateusz Morawiecki are more liberal than the Tories?
Have a word with yourself.
What on earth has being 'liberal' or not got to do with anything?
We're discussing a total contempt for both law and democracy and instincts that lean increasingly towards fascism.Banding around words like 'liberal' in the present climate is a pretty pointless exercise
So I don't see much between them in that regard. Their instincts are the same. Just because Liz uses more guarded language and doesn't indulge in obvious racism, doesn't make her any 'better'.
This Tory party are presently creating an environment where power is absolute and the 'elite' cannot be either challenged or constrained. God only knows where Lizzie will let the ERG lead her by the nose next
I know that as a fully paid up Brexiteer you're in LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING mode when its pointed out that in the UK this has been enabled by Brexit, but there you go, comrade
Those of us who don't genuflect to the Brexit cult aren't so deluded
Those of us who don’t genuflect to the Brexit cult aren’t so deluded
You really can't help insulting people can you, even if you tried? You presumably think that it helps you "win" an argument, or at least make the other person give up.
And since you mention the word 'deluded' and made a comment concerning the judiciary process how about you read up on what Morawiecki has done in Poland?
If you think that EU membership somehow garrantees less authoritarian governments than we currently have in the UK then it is you which I would respectfully suggest is "deluded".
This is all just the usual load of old whataboutery anyway
This thread is about our new glorious leader who is - god help us - Liz Truss.
The facts of the matter are that there is no way on earth that the UK would have been saddled with the present gang of complete imbeciles in government if it wasn't for you beloved 'project'.
We thought Boris was bad?
Well its about to get a whole lot worse. We've a 'convert' and a total dimwit to boot about to take the Brexit reigns
Still... blue passports and all that....
It's all a load of whataboutery because no matter what the subject you somehow want to talk about brexit, and how everything is the fault of brexit, even when it isn't.
As you genuflect to the anti-brexit cult and delude yourself.
We thought Boris was bad?
Well its about to get a whole worse
And yet you ridiculed me in your usual sanctimonious manner when well over a year ago I repeatedly said that all the likely contenders that might replace Johnson would be more right-wing.
You seemed to think that Johnson was the most right-wing Tory politician who ever lived. Now you are suggesting that he wasn't that bad.
and everything is the fault of brexit, even when it isn’t.
The utter car crash that is this countries present politics and economics is absolutely, totally and completely 100% the fault of Brexit
You, Liz, Boris, Rees-Mogg, Farage and co can deny that all you like, but nobody's buying it
You seemed to think that Johnson was the most right-wing Tory politician who ever lived. Now you are suggesting that he wasn’t that bad.
I'm not suggesting he wasn't that bad at all - he's been an absolute bloody disaster - just that whatever came next would be far worse.
But christ on a bendybus... LIZ TRUSS!!!!
Hurray for Brexit!
The utter car crash that is this countries present politics and economics is absolutely, totally and completely 100% the fault of Brexit
No it's not.
Countries were shut down due to a pandemic - there is inflation across the majority of the big economies.
That is the driver of majority of economic issues as seen by countries not in the EU or countries still in the EU.
Brexit won't help anything of course but you'd be be ignoring large swathes of right-wing economic ignorance and downturns whilst being members of the EU.
In fact for a country relying on Chinese imports Truss would do well to shut up about China too.
just that whatever came next would be far worse.
Yeah that's right, Johnson wasn't as bad as what will come next.
Btw re: "hurray for brexit" are you sure that Johnson is going to be replaced by Liz Truss because of brexit?
Each shall be more Brexity than the last
The Talibanisation of UK politics
It'll only reach its logical conclusion when he's in number 10...
This current crop of senior Tories are an absolute disgrace.
Liz Truss is not really right wing. She is saying and doing what the right wing of the Tory party want her to do. All she cares about is the power.
Boris hand picked his cabinet to make sure he would have absolute control over the lot of them.
Was it Penny Mordaunt who described becoming Prime Minister as a "prize" in an interview?
They’ll be talking about the death penalty by the next hustings
Nail em up I say,nail some sense into them.
I’m more surprised theres no calls for national service tbh 🙂
National Service would involve training and providing some equipment, which could technically represent ‘investment’
More likely it’ll be compulsory fruit picking instead
The utter car crash that is this countries present politics and economics is absolutely, totally and completely 100% the fault of Brexit
Nope, brexit is a symptom of the car crash not the cause. The cause, as I've said many times, is a political culture of managerialism and careerism, which was foisted upon us largely by Blair and his merry band of coked up PR advisors who were in the pockets of the super-rich. The result of that culture was government (by both parties) which became totally detached from the struggles and experiences of normal people. So when normal people were given an opportunity to change something, they took it, even though they didn't really know the end result.
I'd like to think that a Liz Truss victory would make a Labour victory more likely at the next general election but I'm reminded that in a couple of years time the discrepancy between the number of old and young people amongst the electorate will widen even further, as it does by a pecentage point or two every year.
We'll just have to get used to being governed by the will of a handfull of old fascists. When the recession hits and unemployment starts to go up we will see a concurrent recurrence of the worst aspects of both the 70's and the 80's.
Still... statues and bathrooms eh?
This child expresses my feelings about it all.
You know how Starmer is going to break the Tory shit show ? - with fiscal rules. That's his line currently.
It has to be fully costed or it doesn't happen.
Country desperately needs deficit spending and Starmer has a tragic UK government in front of him and he can't offer the people an alternative.
You're stuck with the Tories whilst you've got Starmer.
Starmer embarrassed by the workers wanting more money not willing to defend them yet the Tories fully supporting the asset class every step of the way.
Country desperately needs deficit spending and Starmer has a tragic UK government in front of him and he can’t offer the people an alternative.
Because the only significant part of any alternative is rejoining, if not the EU, then at least the Single Market and Customs Union. We're never going to get economic growth if import / export costs what they do now. We've lost hundreds of billions in GDP based on far lower exports and far higher costs.
But Starmer is still desperately trying to avoid the massive elephant in the room by saying that Labour would "make Brexit work".
Because the only significant part of any alternative is rejoining, if not the EU, then at least the Single Market and Customs Union.
No its not, I am fully supportive of re-joining at least the single market and customs union, but to say that is the only significant alternative is complete and utter bollocks. We need public investment in energy and services that allow the country to meet the environmental, energy self sufficiency and transport needs for the future. IMO that can only happen with nationalisation, and stopping the massive waste of public subsidy of corporate profits.
That can't happen in the EU, I would have preferred a progressive government to challenge EU rules that prevent that from within, and think the EU would/could swing to that view with pressure. However we can't play the EU political game now, so lets just offer that as a path in the UK.
Building an advanced comms infrastructure, transport infrastructure, energy generation and delivery infrastructure, building social housing and insulating existing homes, modernising work practices without leaving "people" out of the benefits etc. These ambitions would also create good jobs , helping to rebalance wealth inequality.
The UK's problem with the EU has always been "how much we pay" and not "how can we engage and shape it too do good". But that is also the main problem with the narrative of UK politics, labour need to change that narrative, argue for long lasting progressive policies that benefits all of the uk and not just a few percent. If they can get it right in the UK, then maybe they can also influence international politics, currently they have no ****ing chance.
Yes, and you have to remember exporting is a swap of a country's real resources (limited) for money (unlimited and can be created.)
You wrote:
Nope, brexit is a symptom of the car crash not the cause. The cause, as I’ve said many times, is a political culture of managerialism and careerism, which was foisted upon us largely by Blair and his merry band of coked up PR advisors who were in the pockets of the super-rich. The result of that culture was government (by both parties) which became totally detached from the struggles and experiences of normal people. So when normal people were given an opportunity to change something, they took it, even though they didn’t really know the end result.
Please explain Farage’s “Breaking Point” poster in this context.
Which of the two useless tossers will be on social media first in an England shirt for tonight's match.....
No its not, I am fully supportive of re-joining at least the single market and customs union, but to say that is the only significant alternative is complete and utter bollocks. We need public investment in energy and services that allow the country to meet the environmental, energy self sufficiency and transport needs for the future.
And you can't invest in any of that without sustained economic growth (which seems to be a favourite phrase at the moment from both sides) which you're not going to get without rejoining. It's a Catch-22 and like most politics at the moment it all circles back to Brexit which may not be directly responsible for some of the country's issues but has most certainly made every single one of them far worse.
There's actually a tiny chance that Truss, who changes her views and principles as and when it suits her, might actually recognise this - after all she started off as a Remainer and depending on who is advising and influencing her, might be persuaded to change her views back again even if it's just used as a "look how bad Boris was" ploy...
Theres a good - and by good, I mean thoroughly depressing - article in this mornings Observer about the huge price that we as a country are paying and will continue to pay, with both PM candidates exclusively pitching future policy at an electorate of a tiny minority of comfortably-off, reactionary pensioners in the South East of England.
Their interests are largely at odds with those of the rest of the country and pandering exclusively to them will have hugely detrimental effects on the rest of us
I don't think any of us really needed reminding of this obvious truism, but here you go...
Lost in space and a broken energy market: blame it on the obsession with a small state
Small state destroys everything that is needed about a progressive society today.
The more people realise they have been shafted by the market of utils the better in my opinion we might reach a turning point and understanding of how the UK functions.
Let's stop acting like we're Dubai. A sovereign parliamentary democracy can do amazing things for its country but it isn't going to do it without the understanding of the role the state plays.
And if I hear one more time how are we going to compensate share holders for Nationalisation...
I see there's a group of people planning to boycott energy payments in the autumn. Could be interesting.
One more time for sequencing;
Government spends £££ into existence for a project/infrastructure/employment/wages.
(Optional: Bonds are issued by the government to the private sector to match the deficit - this is the 'debt'. Q/E is the BoE buying back the debt with created money.)
Budget deficit is created and spend is targeted on lacking element of economy/society.
The beneficiaries spend the money into the private sector.
Economy grows/commercial banks lends.
Tax takes money back out of overheating economy ideally at the high end. Crucially spending has already taken place.
Interest rates bought under control.
(Inflation is complex clearly but too much money part of inflation is controlled by taxation - a problem we don't currently have.)
The way around the Tories (Sunak) and Labour currently have it - is to try and tax 100% of what is spent. That is balancing the books.
Which leaves how much in the economy to spend?
How does that grow an economy?
You are leaving the private sector to crawl.
It's not even complex to see that is exactly what austerity offers.
The alternative to government deficits is that the finite amount of money in circulation just gets more concentrated amongst the wealthy.
I see there’s a group of people planning to boycott energy payments in the autumn. Could be interesting.
Yes, but probably not in the way you think. If the movement to refuse to pay gathers enough momentum, the government will:
1. Shit itself.
2. Talk tough about the energy companies.
3. Quietly ask them what can be done.
4. Take this advice and reduce the amount they are required to invest in renewables and pass some of that onto the customer.
This winter will be the first proper test of the UK populations true intent to go green. The answer will be:
“Nah, bollocks, this hottub / XBox / 70 inch telly is vital for my mental health”.
The climate change can will get kicked again.
Please explain Farage’s “Breaking Point” poster in this context.
Simple. When mainstream politicians serve themselves before the people, populists chancers like Farage will emerge to fill the gap.
ffs tory mp's suddenly have issues with mad dorries, jesus ****ing wept you ****ing hypocritical ****s!
On the stupidometer, when you get to the very upper scale, there you’ll always find John Redwood
No surprises who he’s supporting
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1553361123566649344?s=21&t=VvWByTEnWRKgopuYE8dlCw
I’ve just been at a family do and I was going to ask my Mail-reading, Brexit- supporting, Maggie-loving, Tory voting auntie (who I’m pretty sure is a fully paid up member) about the leadership, but she was busy explaining to my teenage daughters why she wouldn’t be watching the football - because women shouldn’t be playing football in the first place, apparently- so I left it
I didn’t need to ask. She’ll be loving Liz’s third rate Thatcher tribute act
I have two very right wing aunties, both will be members, both think Truss is ace. One stopped defending Boris by the end, the other didn’t.
Just glad that out of the four sisters it was my mum that was left wing, rather than full on hatstand, swivel eyed, euro hating, mail reading, Tory loving racists. Weird thing is, they’re both lovely.
I think Right Wing Auntie did a session for Mark Riley on 6 Music last week
Weird thing is, they’re both lovely.
Yep… my auntie is really nice too. Thankfully my mum is a full on Guardian-reading leftie
No surprises who he’s supporting
Although it is not easy to make a clear distinction on balance imo Truss would be better than Sunak.
She appears to be the "you can have your cake and eat it" candidate, whilst Sunak doesn't appear to be offering much in the way of cake.
And with backing from Ben Wallace and Tagnut Hatstand Truss does appear to have some appeal to those more on the left of the Tory Party, although I am aware of the comments made by cynics concerning Tagnut's backing.
So John Redwood's support for Truss is actually slightly surprising for me.
I take it from your comment binners that you would rather see Sunak win the leadership contest and why you have therefore drawn attention to the "stupidometer" and the fact that Redwood is backing Truss?
Simple. When mainstream politicians serve themselves before the people, populists chancers like Farage will emerge to fill the gap.
Disingenuous.
Why was Farage’s attack line one of ethnicity and nationality and not “don’t you just hate corporate types like Cameron and Blair”?
I know that you know the answer. Who are you trying to kid and why?
and why you have therefore drawn attention to the “stupidometer” and the fact that Redwood is backing Truss
John Redwood is as thick as mince
As is Instagram Liz
whilst Sunak doesn’t appear to be offering much in the way of cake
It’s called reality. Not something the Brexity Tory party has had much time for in the last few years, nor does it apparently have much interest in re engaging with it now
More a continuation of the same fantasy ‘Cakist’ economics so beloved of the fly-tipped sofa
You’re aware that her main economic policy is to borrow billions and billions of pounds to fund a cut to corporation tax, right?
It’s called reality
Ah yes, so you would prefer Sunak, and his very classic Tory "difficult truth/decisions" agenda.
I can't say that either of them appeal to me but austerity appeals even less. So on that basis I am reasonably content that the majority of Tory members, including apparently stupid ones like Redwood, are backing Truss and her fairytale economics.
I like a good fairytale, and if it involves cake even better.
Ah yes, so you would prefer Sunak
Let’s be brutally Frank.., this is a case of ‘would sir like his huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?’
There is no good outcome
I can’t say that either of them appeal to me but austerity appeals even less
Both of them are promising more austerity (hasn’t Truss said a 20% cut to pretty much all public services?), but only one of them is saying they also own a forest of magic money trees
Like I said: there are no good outcomes
I think truss will put her foot down on the accelerator of doom quickest thou so it won’t be such a drawn out car crash 🙂
Truss is the "Triumphant return of Boris" in 12 months time candidate.
Sunak can fake being in charge, Truss will just be one pratfall after another. But I still think Sunak as PM would force labour to have to offer something more in opposition than they would have to against Truss, or have done against Boris.
More a continuation of the same fantasy ‘Cakist’ economics so beloved of the fly-tipped sofa
Both of them are promising more austerity
You can't make both comments without contradicting yourself.
In one post you accuse Truss of being the continuation "cakist" candidate, which refers to Johnson's "having your cake and eat it" strategy, ie huge unfunded increased government spending with no austerity.
And in the very next post you claim that Truss has promised more austerity.
I'm no economist but I feel fairly sure that it can't be both.
‘would sir like his huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?’
White obvs, they’ll never choose brown
Truss said a 20% cut to pretty much all public services?
No that was zahawi, and look how well that went down with his fellow tories. Truss for all her faults is preferable to sunak purely on the basis that she hasn’t swallowed the treasury national credit card nonsense. Of course she’ll spend it on the wrong things, but at least she’s not proposing more austerity (yet).
truss is incapable of independent thought so she will be malleable in the hands of those can get time with her.
Local authorities are preparing to make further cuts based on anticipated reductions in central gov grant funding which, with absolute certainty, will happen.
White obvs, they’ll never choose brown
Precisely. It really doesn't matter whether truss or sunak win. They are both equally diabolical with slightly different nuances of not good. And that's putting it generously.
What does matter is the next general election, so I favour Truss, as I trust she'll be so catastrophically useless in ways we've never seen before that we might get a coalition lib/lab/snp/Green government.
Sunak actualy has an air of intelligence about him which I think actualy makes him more dangerous.
I can't belive I'm saying this but it is what I currently think.
truss is incapable of independent thought so she will be malleable in the hands of those can get time with her.
How did she come to leave the LibDems to join the Tories...... Tory Party scouts looking for malleable LibDems?
I think Truss is just as capable of independent thought as any other senior Tory.
Although like Johnson she probably isn't very idealogically driven preferring instead 'solutions' which are likely to make her popular.
And which for me makes her slightly less scary than a highly idealogically driven Tory leader - ironically like Thatcher, the woman it is claimed, with some justification, she tries to emulate.
