Postie van - generally 10-12 miles per shift in urban areas.
perhaps this sort of thing will need to stop. i’m not trolling, i do look about and wonder what things will be like for people who enjoy this sort of thing.
people will give up on life..
though seriously - i mentioned earlier there is a huge touring community in Europe, that wont stop as life becomes more stressfull.
I was at a conference today and someone (quite famous i might add) tried to liken the smoking ban to what we could do with ICE - it's worlds apart in it's comparison and it will come up against more resistance than you might think. At this point, solutions will be found - we may just not know what they are yet!
someone (quite famous i might add)
Was it jeremy clarkson?
Will we then see e.vans being charged overnight beside Loch Etive by a generator
packed I the back oftowed by the van?
That there tellybox Long Way Up series set the bar on this.
I’ve been looking at EV’s to potentially replace our works shuttle van. Trying to find one with a long enough wheelbase, decent load and weight capacity with adequate mileage from a single charge has been tricky. The Maxus eDeliver9 appears to be the only viable vehicle at the moment. Even then we’d have to send the drivers on a course to allow them to drive it. This is due to the weight of it. If we wanted a van that was slightly smaller or lots bigger there’s loads of choice.
I’d love to change to EV for personal use considering the mileage we do. Not going to happen though as even the most basic model car is very expensive. I’ll be keeping my £1k Zafira until it disintegrates
And that completely ignores the fact that if you are on the west coast of Wales/Scotland, then you can just plug it in overnight at your B&B (unless living the van life dream living in a layby, shitting in hedges).
Our holiday cottage in Sheildaig last week had parking 100m up the road.
The Torridon charger is broken, and even if it was working, there are dozens, shortly to be hundreds of vehicles needing it.
And you best speak to a friend working on the 'how the hell do we get the grid to be big enough capacity for all the forthcoming German whips that need 2miiiilon megawatts per second each to charge.
I can imagine that the residents of Torridon and Sheildaig don't really want charging point littering every possible space and parking area. Most chargers seem to be designed to stand out somewhat, not blend into a rural viewpoint.
Yes these problems can be overcome, but by heck there is a lot of work to do in the next decade.
And I am still not sold on electric being the long term answer...
I can imagine that the residents of Torridon and Sheildaig don’t really want charging point littering every possible space and parking area. Most chargers seem to be designed to stand out somewhat, not blend into a rural viewpoint.
The one charger showing in killin was busy for the 5 days I was there. Same car was parked plugged in every time I went past.
Convienant if you were passing through and glanced at your map of charge points....
Conversely I think the electric.car is the way forward for the daily grind for those that need to. Moves the emissions out of the cities.....but I'm also in favour of pedestrianisation and green spaces in cities....... So I'll never get to be in charge of that.
The one charger showing in killin was busy for the 5 days I was there. Same car was parked plugged in every time I went past.
I think I know the resident who owns that car, want me to ask him to budge?
How many petrol stations are there in Torridon and Shieldaig, and if there are any do they blend into the rural landscape?
How many petrol stations are there in Torridon and Shieldaig, and if there are any do they blend into the rural landscape?
That's the point...none because there doesn't need to be....but if your petrol car only did 82 miles 30% of its range would be used just getting fuel from the nearest station.
Fine if you have off street parking near your house for your charge point.
Hydrogen makes more sense for big vehicles and while we seem to be slowly getting there on ev charging, there’s no Hydrogen plans so far?
That requires people to except that electric is not a drop in solution and has some immutable issues for larger vehicles. It's almost as if you need different tools / solutions for different jobs.
its not a good solution for a ‘lifestyle van’. Its perfect for a builder in london.
Agreed, but that is a small area where that works, I know plenty of traders who do more than that to get to their work site or between sites each day, so absolutely no use for them.
I like the idea of ev, but as I've said, environmentally, they are terrible due to manufacturing requirements. They don't work for me as the charging times add inconvenience and hassle to my journeys - not all, but plenty. I'd much prefer not travelling as I'm sitting doing nothing but the driving so then having to break journeys to charge as well? I can't see anyone expecting that to come out my working hours but will be my personal hours.
Things will improve but needs to improve very quickly.
"I live 170 miles from Aviemore, and always stop in Perth for a break, which is about half way. Ditto the Lakes and M74 services"
I live in the FoD and I only stop once on the way to Aviemore. Just long enough for a slash and me and the missus to swap places.
I'll go electric the day I have absolutely no choice or the mileage is enough for the above trip and some spare if I can't find a charger that takes no long than the above slash to top me up.
I've seriously thought about an EV, but we have a caravan in North Wales - often take two cars as me/wife work and I may go back, or she may stay - my car is the bike carrier. EV charge points are more or less non existant, and using the microwave and a kettle at the same time will trip the electric at our caravan, certainly won't charge a car. And this is near Prestatyn, not in Snowdonia.
I think @LAT has it - we've become accustomed to the convenience of just jumping in our personal motorised transport and driving wherever - whether that be the local shops or the other end of the country. Instead of focussing on increasing range of electric vehicles, increasing charging speeds, increasing the number and availability of chargers so we can continue living in the way we've all got used to living, perhaps we should start to consider if continuing to live the way we've all got used to living is really achievable. Appreciate that this may not be palatable to many, change is never easy but perhaps we need to start making some serious grown-up decisions about our lifestyles.
I'm going to suggest that in terms of adoption priorities environmentally, people with occasional-use vans and rural vehicles are pretty low down the list.
Surely one of the big aims of EVs is air quality in urban areas and existing AQMAs. Some of those areas are genuinely worrying for health risks. Those are the places where a high percentage of people in EVs would be best. Coincidentally it's also where the chargers are, So is that the worst thing?
Clinging on the Transporter VanLife would only become a significant issue if people were buying vans as fashion vehicles in urban areas, and hey, maybe fashions will change. EVs do seem to be looking like the "new tech" for the fashion conscious.
And I am still not sold on electric being the long term answer…
That answer is to not use cars, or use cars for say 10% of the amount people do today.
I don't know where the figure of 80 odd miles is coming from but our ev fleet of fully laden vans is mid 30 for the duel fuel vans before they go to combustion. Add in that's summer time usage
Talking to an engineer from Cummins who is in my cycle club , he said they are working on a new generation of diesel engines for commercial use . They are also developing the electric side.
And also...
https://cpnonline.co.uk/news/cummins-begins-testing-of-hydrogen-fueled-internal-combustion-engine/
How many of you grumblers are aware of the massive investment in infrastructure and R&D that is currently being poured into EVs? It's happening and it'll NEED to work by 2030. And I think it will, because that's the date everyone's now working to.
we need to start making some serious grown-up decisions about our lifestyles.
Good luck with that.
How many of you grumblers are aware of the massive investment in infrastructure and R&D that is currently being poured into EVs? It’s happening and it’ll NEED to work by 2030. And I think it will, because that’s the date everyone’s now working to.
Agree, it will be okay by 2030 - my point is that today is very different than it will be so not something I am worried about. But unfortunately that is 30 years too late to actually be part of any contribution towards reducing climate change. And the lorries have until 2040, no rush, not like it is important is it. Combine that with continued oil, gas and coal usage and worrying about how cars are powered in 10-20 years time is definitely in the rearranging the deck chairs category.
I live in the FoD and I only stop once on the way to Aviemore. Just long enough for a slash and me and the missus to swap places.
Would seem to be the problem.
People are going to have to change how they live, and one of those things will be not owning a massive van to put gear in and driving it hundreds of miles twice a year when you could own a smaller vehicle and use a roof rack for the rare occasion you need to haul gear (rare being once a week). And if you have to stop for an hour extra on a several hour journey, so be it.
Unfortunately, sorting out the climate crisis is going to take compromises and individuals don’t seem willing to do that and the government is unwilling to push them onto businesses. I’m happy to compromise by replacing my car (when it’s totally dead, not just because I fancy a new one) with an electric one and sucking up the compromises of finding a rural charger or stopping for a bit. Or, even better, taking the train to where I’m going which is what we do now for our holidays where we can, despite the extra cost. It seems mad to me that someone is complaining about the traffic from Derby to Cornwall in another thread when a train will get them practically door to door in half the time.
People are going to have to realise that the compromise of having an electric car or using alternative transport (and not carting shit around in a massive vehicle) is far less of a pain than the compromise of living with a climate crisis that goes unchecked.
100% MB.
it's *almost* as if there's a massive, global crisis that we urgently need to take action on - significantly changing habits that many of us have taken for granted.
realistically, we've already locked-in 2°C warming, which will be bad, but survivable. We absolutely have to avoid 3 or even 4°C (which we're currently on course for), which will be staggeringly catastrophic.
it cannot be underplayed just how bad 4°C warming will be. There's no sugar coating this. we have to do something, significant, now.
Why is no-one talking about hydrogen fuelled vehicles, which seem to be a great combination of convenience and environmental credentials? Surely thwy are the future?
They are and will be important part of the mix. Different tools for different jobs but there is a religious like love of electric vehicles (which are excellent solutions for some problems but rubbish for others) for some reason from people (including many politicians) seem to be in denial.
just to put this into context – some acquaintances of mine who were doing a Golfing trip to Scotland recently took 3-4 hours more to get home on empty roads than their colleagues did due to stops.
Just for another perspective. It took me 2 hours longer to get the west coast of Scotland then it normally does. 1.5 hours of that was due to a diversion, traffic and Burger King taking 30 minutes to serve me. Actual charging was an hour, only adding 30 minutes more than usual. That was a 270 mile journey.
Hydrogen is more wasteful to produce and more difficult to store. The way battery tech is evolving it will be pointless for cars, but may see some use in large vehicles.
The drive to electric has an advantage not mentioned here.. a drive towards energy independence, especially from the middle East. I suspect this is behind more government moves than the environmental aims
Why is no-one talking about hydrogen fuelled vehicles
Because making, storing and transporting hydrogen isn't easy.
Its production uses lots of energy.
It's not easy to store nor transport. Highly flammable, more so than petrol. It causes the metals in which it is stored or transported to fail.
People need to get out of their cars, onto bikes or into buses.
Lorries carry goods to supermarkets. Trades people can't transport their tools or wares with public transport. Their vans might be more polluting, but there are far fewer on the roads than there are single occupancy commuters or school run mums.
I ride to work most days and 90% of the time quicker over a 12 km commute than the times I need to take the van.
a drive towards energy independence
If it were we would be doing alot more about the generation side than upping the consumption massively.
Hydrogen production is a mature technology, it's not exactly hard either. Yes it's energy intensive but isn't that what all the excess renewables we keep hearing about would be perfect for?
If it were we would be doing alot more about the generation side than upping the consumption massively.
Quite.
My average commute is around 30 miles each way with mostly on street parking. Which isn’t high for an ev but the second I add all my tools and materials I’m pushing a tonne payload. There isn’t much in the way of ev’s that would work for me. Add in around 40% of the jobs I’m on are remote old buildings often running off generators for power. Sort of rules out an ev for me currently. Even if they did work though I couldn’t afford one! I can’t afford a new ice van let alone electric.
Most people on-site I speak to are planning to triple their prices the minute they have to deal with ev’s. I know one electrician with an ev. He doesn’t take work on more than 5 miles from his house 😂
Add in around 40% of the jobs I’m on are remote old buildings often running off generators for power.
Probably not uk relevent but that's one of the selling points of the new f150 lightning, the onboard batteries can be used as a power source for anything and have plenty of juice for a days labour plus getting you home again. They also recon it can power an average house for 3 (average usage) to 10 (low usage) days meaning remote cabins etc suddenly get more livable
Have you read the review of the E-Expert I posted on the first page?
We leased ours. I looked at the previous three years van running costs, all in I think this is around £100 per month more expensive. Savings on fuel, tax, insurance, engine repairs offsetting the higher cost. The more fuel you put in the smaller that gap gets. Buying one outright at the moment would be crazy, but in three years when ones like mine come up for sale post-lease it would better.
Why is no-one talking about hydrogen fuelled vehicles, which seem to be a great combination of convenience and environmental credentials? Surely they are the future?
They might be, but we're a 'breakthrough' away from reality on those.
It's only my personal opinion, but Internal Combustion Hydrogen vehicles are a red herring, they're ferociously inefficient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7
Like 'eFuels' they're a bid by the motor industry to try to delay the banning of ICE cars, they might be throwing millions at R&D, but that's chicken feed in motor industry terms.
Fuel Cell Hydrogen vehicles are a fantastic solution, if you can refine Hydrogen efficiently, which we can't. Some might argue that EVs only shift the pollution to the most tax efficient place possible (EVs create more Co2 then ICEs in Wales for example because of our poor energy production) by Fuel Cell cars would be much worse.
However, if they can find a way of doing it efficiency, or create enough sustainable energy to to make it viable, then maybe.
This might be the future
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/uk-seeks-site-world-s-first-fusion-power-station
If that works, then by the middle of the century, when I'll need to renew my driving license, if I'm lucky, then the dream of near endless clean energy might be a reality and it won't matter how much you use creating the fuel.
I don't see it though, the momentum with with EVs, Williams Engineering (sister company to the racing team) are working on the first 1000km range EV and Solid State batteries arriving, well it's always 5 years, but maybe it will be this time, then a 1000km range EV with a 500mph charging time (I've never seen it measured that way before) might be a reality and at that point, who wants to go back to hauling a combustion engine around when you can have a near silent EV
Isn't accessible charging (for terraces and apartments in cities) still the elephant in the room for EVs?
Isn’t accessible charging (for terraces and apartments in cities) still the elephant in the room for EVs?
Not just cities - go to any small Spanish town and at least half the housing will be apartments.
these are the people who shouldn't really need cars though! And why the focus should be on improving public transport (but car share schemes etc also can be helpful). Getting cars [I]out[/I] of cities/town centres should be the priority - not figuring out how to make them even more convenient!Isn’t accessible charging (for terraces and apartments in cities) still the elephant in the room for EVs?
these are the people who shouldn’t really need cars though!
what makes you say that ?
These are more often than not people that are forced into flats and apartments in areas where others dont want to live (city centre) for financial reasons rather than choice.
sounds like your only allowed to go mountain biking in the hills if you have a drive way in utopia.
While i agree with the sentiment - its one of those things thats easier to say from the luxury of an ivory tower rather than putting your self in the shoes of those in the situation.
Car share platforms are great in theory - anyone use one regularly - sample of 1 - an ex STW chap i keep in touch with uses one fairly regularly since his car was written off - and while it suits his needs - he messages fairly frequently along lines of "****ing car share car is broken" or "**** sake the car share car isnt where its supposed to be"
I vote for the belgian model - all cars get parked at the outskirts of town in carparks and you walk/ride/tram into the city.
sounds like your only allowed to go mountain biking in the hills if you have a drive way in utopia.
Equally, if you only need a car once a week to get to the hills then you're an ideal candidate for a car sharing scheme. Just depends if they find a way of making it convenient and cost effective in towns (already works in cities). I say this having only just escaped the exact situation you described, and finding it quite frustrating to pay so much for a car I barely use
because if we carry on as we are, we're ****ed - EVs or not - so people are going to have to make sacrifices, simple as that.what makes you say that ?
right - but if you're doing that you probably [I]don't[/I] need a car of your own every day (otherwise you should probably move 🤣), a car/van share or hire will work equally well. People are just hung up on the idea that they HAVE to own their own car (or 2, or 3!)I vote for the belgian model – all cars get parked at the outskirts of town in carparks and you walk/ride/tram into the city.
is it a human right to go mountain biking in the hills? What about the rights of others not to have to live in a city clogged full of unnecessary cars? If it's so important, maybe move closer/out of the city? Otherwise you will have to make compromises in your life - the same as 99.99% of other people who aren't Uber-rich (including me 😃 )sounds like your only allowed to go mountain biking in the hills if you have a drive way in utopia.While i agree with the sentiment – its one of those things thats easier to say from the luxury of an ivory tower rather than putting your self in the shoes of those in the situation.
is it a human right to go mountain biking in the hills? What about the rights of others not to have to live in a city clogged full of unnecessary cars? If it’s so important, maybe move closer/out of the city? Otherwise you will have to make compromises in your life – the same as 99.99% of other people who aren’t Uber-rich (including me 😃 )
You're asking for the populace to make sacrifices for the greater good.
People are selfish. It won't happen.
These are more often than not people that are forced into flats and apartments in areas where others dont want to live (city centre) for financial reasons rather than choice.
Again all nice if you have the money to move . I'm sure a vast majority of people would move out of the city centre if they could....*not simple as*
