[Closed] so..... what happend to "tj and the others"

I didn't read the actual thread, but it wasn't a huge bust-up.

TJ was (and is) a pathological arguer. He is incredibly inflammatory without realising it, which got people annoyed and then threads would blow up. He also is utterly incapable of admitting he's wrong or that someone else's point of view is valid.

So despite being a fundamentally sound bloke, these particular traits caused a lot of acrimony, the mods continually warned him about it and temporarily banned him. Then one day there was just one argument thread too many.

Then there was a bit of a clear-out of argumentative thread spoilers.

I got warned off trying to contact him the other day. I'm guessing there was more. I'm also guessing this thread will be pulled shortly...

TJ is banned forever because he's too easily baited, and it was too hard to moderate the people who constantly baited him. (this isn't making excuses for him, he could be a nightmare too, but there's a difference between lining an argument and being a troll)

GW is banned for actually being a troll 😉

[quote=fourbanger ]I got warned off trying to contact him the other day.
??

He's on Facebook if you feel the need to chat to him.

It's a mark of the man (and his tormentors) that folk still try to take the piss out of him on this forum even though he's been off it for 6 months and has no way of responding.

thanks for the reply molegrips that clears that up. end of thread

As for being a pathological arguer, he had his views and they often clashed with the majority. But seeing as the likes of the Sun and the Daily Mail are still in business, there are a lot of morons out there. Fair play for standing up for what you believe.

Banned forever from an obscure cycling website for arguing, now thats impressive!

now thats [s]im[/s]depressive!

FTFY

Surfmat I think was another sent packing, I could be wrong

And whatever happened to blu-tone after "that thread" I still have it saved

No, Smurf-Mat flounced, cos we kept taking the piss.

can we have a link to "that thread" my questions are not answered

Flounced- not been much of that recently. At some point so many were flouncing that us mere mortals almost became big hitters by default. Now I am back to obscurity due to lack of flouncing my life feels empty

TJ is banned forever because he's too easily baited, and it was too hard to moderate the people who constantly baited him.

...and the mods took the easy option.

I'm connected with TJ on FB, despite being somebody who argued with him regularly on here (though unlike many others it was never a personal thing for me).

The first rule of Ban Club is, you do not talk about Ban Club, unless you want to become a member.

It was before my tenure, but my understanding (as a user around that time) is that Molgrips is pretty much on the money. There were a few people who enjoyed a debate, which is fine, but couldn't help themselves descending into heated arguments despite repeated warnings, which isn't. Ultimately, that doesn't make for a welcoming environment for everyone else.

I don't think there's a lot more to add to that, so unless anyone's got any pearls of wisdom I think this thread will close shortly. I'd suggest that if you do want to discuss this (and I'm questioning how wise my own actions are here), you keep it civil and don't make it personal. It's not nice to speak ill of people who can't answer back.

OP
Do you think it's important ?
They just went past their sell by date.
As time passes the references to them mean less and less,I wouldn't worry about it too much.
There will be a new wave along soon.
It happens on a lot of forums,tis the way of the interweb 🙂

At least TJ has enough self-respect not to try to come back under a different name. 😉

The actual 'last' thread was much of a muchness, nothing bad, just the straw that broke the camels back.

If you are asking about blu-tones thread, it's comedy gold, one of the best things on the Internet.

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-picolax-thread-returns/

TJ - too easy to bait

GW - gobby but good fun

not sure who else was actually banned or just left in protest (and then resurrected)

[i]Waves at druidh[/i] 😉

I disagree with Molgrips analysis. I never found TJ "incredibly inflammatory" nor did he ever annoy me.

If you are interested in what sort of post he posted, check his posting history.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/profile/tandemjeremy

it was too hard to moderate

Again, speaking purely as a user as I wasn't privy to what went on then, I suspect that it wasn't "hard" to moderate so much as bloody time consuming.

You wouldn't believe how much work there is just in moderating day to day queries, stopping spam and suchlike; I imagine a squeaky wheel would very quickly suck up too much time, to the detriment of everything else.

The mods are all volunteers and give their time freely. It's a small team and a considerable amount of work.

I disagree with Molgrips analysis.

You bloody would. (-:

I believe they are all now on an unidentified island. Polar bears and hidden bunkers are also involved.........

Waves at druidh

For the record, druidh isn't banned, to my knowledge. He's not done anything wrong (or at least, not done anything sufficiently wrong to merit the Big Banhammer).

Not that that's particularly important, but I don't want to see someone character-assassinated unfairly.

I never found TJ "incredibly inflammatory" nor did he ever annoy me.

Possibly you're misunderstanding what molgrips means by that. You might not have found him that way, but others clearly did - the big problem though was those who realised they could wind him up and only argued with him in order to stoke their own egos by doing so.

Possibly you're misunderstanding what molgrips means by that. You might not have found him that way, but others clearly did.

Molgrips said : [i]"He is incredibly inflammatory"[/i]. I'm not sure how I can misunderstand that, it's very clear and unambiguous.

I'm not going to talk about anyone in particular, but as far as I understand it the mods' decision was made because the forum is actually run to promote the magazine, and they didn't think constant bickering and flaming rows reflected well.

Which is a fair point imo.

Cougar - Moderator

You wouldn't believe how much work there is just in moderating day to day queries, stopping spam and suchlike;

I used to mod a forum that was a [i]lot[/i] more active than this one. It wasn't a commercial venture so we were less worried about clickthrough and footfall and more worried about community.

Til last week I modded Bikeradar and that's got some of the same considerations as this place, it's a Future product and that both dictates and creates the majority of the mod work.

(this is not a criticism of STW- it just has different aims to some other forums. I wouldn't be here if I thought it wasn't good! But I'm realistic about what it is)

You have to agree, there was some pretty deep and inspiring arguments on here in the past. Intelligent folks tend to bait and bicker it's a sort of sport to them. Winning arguments was the end game and often TJ and Fred would bait and often tolerate the abuse handed out.
But there was some mighty intelligent thought provoking stuff they came out with.

Mods have their agenda, I'm not getting into whether they are right or wrong, it's not my forum and not my place to question, I'm simply a guest in here who observes their (un) written rules.

But blimey, sometimes I do miss their banter.

There still are intelligent profound threads on here.

I used to mod a forum that was a lot more active than this one.

Well, I can't compare with others. The only other place I'm a moderator is an Internet Bulletin Board, and that's unsurprisingly low impact in the 21st Century.

Point I was making was solely that it's more work than perhaps people realise. Whether it's as much work as another site, I've no idea; I'd hope that the number of bodies would scale with the volume of traffic for a given forum, but that's not really the point. STW obviously felt they needed another pair of hands (and must have been stuck for choice) because they asked me to pitch in. It might not be Facebook but for a basic forum on the back of a niche interest magazine, it's not exactly quiet either.

Mods have their agenda

The only "agenda" is that, as Northwind said, the magazine is a commercial venture and that has to be respected. Above and beyond that, any perceived agenda is, well, just that, your perception.

OP
Do you think it's important ?

no, did i imply that?

I'm simply a guest in here who observes their (un) written rules.

I'm curious about this. What do you believe are unwritten rules?

I've spoken about this before, as far as I can, but I'm a big fan of transparency (which is why I opted to have the tag against my name rather than remain anonymous). If you think there's something unwritten then please, bring it to my / our attention and I'll do what I can to get the T&Cs firmed up or explain what's going on.

We do what we believe is right and often it's a judgement call. It's not always an easy call to make, things are rarely black and white. If there's inconsistency it is, in my opinion, simply because different people respond, rather than any Section 31 style hidden agenda.

Seriously, if you think things could be clearer, tell us.

Agenda, T'is what I am saying like.
And yes there are some intelligent threads on here.

T'is why I still hang around.

TJ had too much hair for a man of his age and experience!
A passionate man.

Agenda, T'is what I am saying like.

Would I regret asking you to explain that?

so there I was skipping and hopping through the banhammer minefield stark naked....

Aswell as arguing (never really bothered reading it), TJ seemed to offer lots of helpful cycling related advice. As did GW who was pretty funny with it aswell.

Don't know why either are banned!

Nope, I think the Mods agenda is quite simple.

You look after the Mags and the Forums best interests.

I agree wholeheartedly in a moderated Forum, it would have and could have descended into a pit of nasty baiters but this place has, and I hope, will always be a healthy mix of opinion, intuition, inspiration and healthy debate.

And fun.
And piss taking.

And pies,
And beer,
And bikes.

Well, that's hardly an "agenda". It's more of a "business model." With pies. Mm, pie.

Moreover, if a mod's "agenda" wasn't "the forum's best interests," they probably shouldn't be a mod. I'm a bit perplexed as to how this is somehow unusual or sinister, TBH.

Also,

I really need to work on my punctuation.

Business model ? Are you from the 1980's??

Too late for pies, tomorrows good though..

davidtaylforth - Member

Aswell as arguing (never really bothered reading it), TJ seemed to offer lots of helpful cycling related advice. As did GW who was pretty funny with it aswell.

Are you from the 1980's??

I'm flattered.

but this place has, and I hope, will always be a healthy mix of opinion, intuition, inspiration and healthy debate.

That is what works for me

That is what works for me

Aswell as arguing (never really bothered reading it), TJ seemed to offer lots of helpful cycling related advice. As did GW who was pretty funny with it aswell.

Post - I want to buy a helmet for my kid
27 pages later......

Ohhhh ... I see ... so that's the reason I don't see TJ etc not on STW anymore.

Frankly, I thought their views (not that particular thread but others) were rather balance with no one winning.

Yes, calling names perhaps is not on for the 40 or 50 something ... 😆 That's real handbag swinging that ...

He is incredibly inflammatory without realising it, which got people annoyed and then threads would blow up. He also is utterly incapable of admitting he's wrong or that someone else's point of view is valid.

As someone who used to have quite heated debates with him on here, I'd just like to add that I am friends with him on Facebook, and still have very constructive debates on several of the issues that caused mammoth 'TJ' threads.

I've never met him, probably never will. But that he can hold a constructive discussion between two people with obviously different starting points highlights pretty much all of your comment to be a bit far from the truth.

I thought they were banned because Mark doesn't like them. That's why The Yak was banned too.

This thread has been very civilised,still the day shift are due shortly. TJ could argue about the colour of poo, but there was an element of people who followed him round just to poke him with a stick,and would be internet high fiving each other as they did it.It could turn some threads into a real mess.Jeremy knew his bikes and routes in Embra region and is pretty switched on about the rugby, also invented the best insult ever typed on STW (looks over shoulder at Cougar approaching with Molinar type banhammer and decides not to type it out)

This place is infinitely better since TJ was banned.

I quite liked TJ, he seemed to be a thinking mans troll.

I thought they were banned because Mark doesn't like them. That's why The Yak was banned too.

+1

[i]I'm a bit perplexed as to how this is somehow unusual or sinister, TBH[/i]

I have seen circumstantial evidence that [i]a person[/i] has exercised prejudice and discrimination wrt moderation decisions on a recent thread.(I haven't mentioned which forum or which thread)
For those who moderate, there will always be the risk that holding such power on a forum will eventually skew their opinion on matters. A point I had to raise recently.
Which is that moderation does not include the office of policing the internet generally, enforcing corporate law or exercising your own brand of law, judgement and punishment.
However, protecting the interests of those who advertise with a commercial enterprize, has to cause a conflict of interest. imo.

[i]I thought they were banned because Mark doesn't like them.[/i]
You'd like to think this wasn't the case.
But, you can't escape the reality that this is someone's party. If you don't like it, they don't have to change the music just for you and they don't have to adhere to the highest or most widely agreed standards of fairness.
Its business.

I can see STW/Mods point of view. Alot of 'us' are a bloody pain in the ass/not worth the hassle. Hence why I stopped subtly baiting people soo much. Its tiring for all concerned (part of growing up?).

I liked TJ - but as with everything forums bring out repetitive/compulsion in us.

the best insult ever typed on STW

That's why The Yak was banned too

Generally I found TJ fine but a bit repetitive when the others pushed his buttons and he couldn't help himself but respond. On a few occasions he crossed from "fine but I don't agree" to extremely rude but those weren't anything to do with his ban.

Like others have said, I think he was often a positive forum member but the goading and his inability to ignore it ensured things were going to end badly. On balance, given his absence and the absence of the people pushing his buttons, things seem to have got "better" (whatever that means).

hora

and

subtly

in the same sentence. No. 😆

TJ's argumentative skills were epic. If he wanted to he could brow-beat you into trying hardcore rampant gaysex. Such was his omni-potent power of staying power.

TJ was (and is) a pathological arguer. He is incredibly inflammatory without realising it, which got people annoyed and then threads would blow up. He also is utterly incapable of admitting he's wrong or that someone else's point of view is valid.

So despite being a fundamentally sound bloke, these particular traits caused a lot of acrimony, the mods continually warned him about it and temporarily banned him. Then one day there was just one argument thread too many.

+1

If he wanted to he could brow-beat you into trying hardcore rampant gaysex

Are you trying to tell us something?

The biggest troll on here is molgrips.

TJ is a sound guy who has strong well thought out opinions, as is GW.

I know I've been away a while, but when did Cougar get to be mod?

Weird. I'm thinking that anyone who has something intelligent and/or funny to add to a discussion shouldn't be a mod... That's just a waste.

I quite liked TJ and Yeti and most of the others who felt the wrath of STW...

I'm always genuinely surprised that people don't seem to get moderation here?

Somebody is paying for webspace and a forum as a commercial enterprise, if they see it being jeopardised people get removed, like a nightclub in the real world.

It's not rocket science really is it?

I never saw TJ utter any nasty comments, and he always had a supporting reason for his argument.

I figure he was banned for being too much of a mouth, and the others for being too much of the other orifice.

Apart from the lack of TJ this forum is a much pleasanter place.

This place is way nicer for the fact that we no longer have every thread turning into some 16 page monster argument over absolutely nothing of significance!

I figure he was banned for being too much of a mouth

No it was because he couldn't ever stop. There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion.

The biggest troll on here is molgrips.

Fame!

No it was because he couldn't ever stop.

Pot Kettle Black.

No it was because he couldn't ever stop.

Afraid not. It was because he repeatedly ignored warnings. I've had many a warning from teh modz, some more justified than others. I've never ignored them, though.

FWIW, I disagree with TJ's ban, and would allow him back in a flash if it was my show. However, like any criminal rehabilitation process, there would be conditions. Any post of his on a helmet or Scotland * thread would be auto-replaced with "Blah, blah, blah". 😉

* - Apart from rugby threads. I miss his sheer bloody minded optimism about Scotchish rugby.

I'm not really keen on heated or angry debate (certainly not on a forum) and I'm far from being a political animal, so from that point of view I enjoyed watching the debates between TJ and friends. I admired his determination and inability to back down no matter how many pounced on him.

If I owned a pub and a few people spent all day there, shouting and arguing, being aggressive to other potential customers and never even buying a drink, I would chuck them out.

I don't own a pub but I do help run this site and this sort of thread is entertaining for a few and alienating for most. Topic closed