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My son turns 16 next month. Whilst he's not academically a high achiever, he's a great lad and I'm (obviously) extremely proud of him. He lives with his mum ( we divorced 10 years ago) and developed an interest in the army cadets about 2 years ago after some bullying problems at school (at the time he was a bit overweight and a bit soft - which he is certainly not anymore).
He is now a 6 ft strapping lad and loves cadets, pretty much lives for it. He's just called me to say that he's been to the army careers office today and booked his Army recruit battery test (BARB) which he needs his parents permission for. His mum is going to flip! Pretty mixed emotions right now and I know anything could happen between now and next year when he leaves school but he seems so young to join up. At the same time, I would also be full of admiration for him taking such a massive decision.
Take him out to the garden, shoot him in the leg, ask him if that feels like a good career choice.
Does he really know what the army's like these days and what kind of war he'll be participating in?
My niece joined the Army at 16 straight from school. She's got her head screwed on and was determined to join. The family supported her full and two years on she loves it. Definately the right decision for her.
Full respect to your lad, not just for joining but also for actually knowing what he wants to do and going fot it!!
His uncle (on his mums side) and 2 cousins are all in the regulars.
gravitysucks, +1.
Good for him, a great choice of career. What line of soldiering is he looking at? Any initial thoughts?
Well ideally I would like him to get a trade in engineering of some description, if he does sign up and he was thinking along those lines but both his cousins are infantry (lancashire fusiliers) and he's now thinking along these lines 😕
Support him and maybe he will listen to your concerns for him but support his choice.
I'd suggest you talk it through with him, make sure that he's not just caught up in the idea rather than the reality of it (doesn't sound like that's the case) and if he's still sure, let him do it - by the sounds of it, all you'll do by refusing is delay it and cause resentment.
Good luck
Let him go. Good on him.
Interesting "More or Less" programme on radio 4 a few weeks ago where they said that the chances of death per year of a UK Soldier on active service was lower than the chances of death per year of a musician who achieved chart success...
Infantry is rather pure soldiering. What have the Lancashires been up to?
My son is keen, and just a bit younger that yours. rather embarassingly I've forgotten the name of the regiment he is interested in. Basically its' a Comando engineers regiment
Possible comprosise solution... RAF?
Good engineering opportunity and generally kept out of the way of Taliban target practice.
Probably come out with a good degree and be paid for the priveledge, rather than paying £27k plus living costs.
My da wouldn't even let me join the scouts!
Interesting "More or Less" programme on radio 4 a few weeks ago where they said that the chances of death per year of a UK Soldier on active service was lower than the chances of death per year of a musician who achieved chart success...
Quite a misleading and meaningless comparison.
I almost joined when I was that age. Almost went to army college, then off to uni, then to sandhurst, etc. etc. Instead, just went to normal college, then uni, and after that, who knows? I don't really think I want to be in the army anymore, but I was pretty sure a few years ago. It's a tough thing, as at that age you can be pretty sure about something, but you may change your mind. You say he's not bright, but is he bright enough that he might have a better career doing something else? He can always leave (maybe) if he hates it.
by the way, you can't just walk into engineering posts, you actually do require some academic prowess.
i was in the same boat as him, had a shit school life, joined cadets wanted the army life as i loved what i had in cadets.
i'm now applying for the royal navy....
Good for him, as others have said try to 'guide' him towards the engineers or something so that he's got a trade and his job prospects are massively increased when he leaves.
MSP - I'd disagree - but we musn't pull the thread too much OT.
The death rate per year of one bunch of 20 year olds, compared with another.
Not saying they are realistic alternative choices, but whilst the death rate in the modern army understandably is a concern to any parent - and a real shame - we are not talking about the fatality rate in lots of previous conflicts.
My point is that people may have an artificially high perception of the death rate in the services.
Great career choice if thats what he really wants to do. If he doesnt like it he wont make it through basic training...its a world away from the cadets!
Loved my time there, and i know the British Army has changed a great deal since then, but if its what he wants to do then find out all the information you can for him.
Support him in whatever he feels it is he wants to do. If it was my son I'd make him fully aware that this is real life and not like the cadets at all, also make him aware of the fact that he will be going to a war zone fairly soon too.
I'd be proud of him if it was me, there are far worse options open to teenagers and it's nice to hear of a youngster with some direction for once.
Real Man, I never said he wasn't bright, I said he is not academically high achiever. He is very switched on but isn't expected to achieve good exam grades next year. There's a difference.
Good Man.
I joined up at 16, and spent the next 12 years doing exactly that.
I had a great time, saw some great, ( And a few not so ) places.
Got a decent trade, and wouldn't change it for the world.
Sadly, a broken neck ment my career ended half way through.
Would do it all again.
Tomorrow.
Yeh a bit of direction from you will help and if your interested and encouraging him then he's more likely to take on board what your saying.
If I was that age in the currant climate I would def be applying. A very wise choice if you ask me.
His uncle (on his mums side) and 2 cousins are all in the regulars.
Has he spoken to them about what the reality is like? I think they could give him better advice than you could but whatever he decides you have to stand by him - he is soon to be an adult so treat him as such and gain his respect - he deserves it because it takes a certain type of person to be so confident about what they want (especially as it involves the potential for serious harm).
What's the minimum term commitment for a 16 year old? Is it still true that the UK is one of a small number of rich countries to still occasionally send child soldiers into combat or did they stop that after criticism a couple of years ago?
The death rate per year of one bunch of 20 year olds, compared with another.
"20 year olds who have achieved chart success" is a statistically insignificant group.
> The death rate per year of one bunch of 20 year olds, compared with another."20 year olds who have achieved chart success" is a statistically insignificant group.
Plus comparing death rates ignores the number of 20 year olds that have been seriously injured (missing limbs, paralysis, loss of sight etc) which I suspect is significantly higher in soldiers than in boy bands.
I know nothing about this, but. Could he go to collage first and then go in? Two years might make all the difference to the decision he makes and the opportunity available.
I would also have one eye on the long term, I have heard some sad stories of people coming out of the army, engineering side would look like a good move.
Sorry Bregante, not what I meant at all, I mistyped.
I think you're dwelling on the negatives. At least he hasn't suggested golf as a future career.
His uncle (on his mums side) and 2 cousins are all in the regulars.Has he spoken to them about what the reality is like? I think they could give him better advice than you could but whatever he decides you have to stand by him - he is soon to be an adult so treat him as such and gain his respect - he deserves it because it takes a certain type of person to be so confident about what they want (especially as it involves the potential for serious harm).
He has been spending increasing amounts of time with the two cousins, who are 21 and 19 and he looks up to them. I don't think they have been filling his head with bravado either from what he in turn, has said to me. I think he has recognised that, to a certain extent, academic qualifications count for a lit less in the forces, than they do in civilian life and there is not a great deal of opportunity for him where he is now.
He has recently been in Africa doing some charity work (I posted about it recently) which he funded almost totally himself and I think this has also opened his eyes to the wider world. Whatever he decides, he will obviously have my (and his mums) support.
Doesn't stop you fretting though.....
No worries RM
Has to be his decision - support him and make sure he understands what he's getting into. I've never considered the military (won't follow orders) but thinking back to when I was that age, if you'd told me I couldn't do something I'd just set myself against you and do it anyway.
Uwe-r. One option I am keen for him to explore is the army college at Harrogate (there are others) where he would study for two years in a given army career related area (eg: electro mechanical engineering). If after completion of two years, he wishes to sign up then he can go into his chosen field. Obviously places are limited though and entry is based on performance at assessment/interview.
how about the ta for a couple of years while he does FE of some sort. have no real idea of what i'm taking about, just a suggestion!
might it be a good middle ground for him to get a better idea of the more gritty aspects of being 'in', earning a few quid, but also maybe picking up a few a levels or a btec that might come in handy later, whatever he decides to do?
good luck to him, whatever. sometimes think i might have got on well in the forces, and regret not looking at it more seriously when i was younger.
He sounds like he is an intelligent young man - good on him.
Teetosugars - Member
Good Man.I joined up at 16, and spent the next 12 years doing exactly that.
I had a great time, saw some great, ( And a few not so ) places.
Got a decent trade, and wouldn't change it for the world.
Sadly, a broken neck ment my career ended half way through.
Would do it all again.
Tomorrow.
Same here.
Good Man.
I joined up at 16, and spent the next 7 years doing exactly that.
I had a great time, saw some great, ( And a few not so ) places.
Got a decent trade, and wouldn't change it for the world.
Sadly, a "too good to turn down" job enticed me to leave.
Would do it all again.
Tomorrow.
Quite a misleading and meaningless comparison
You're also 16 times more likely to die as a fisherman than a soldier in a given year. Death rates in soldiers are almost exactly the same as painter decorators.
On a serious note, maybe take them to your nearest AFCO and see about joining the TA for a little while to see what it's like? I was in the TA for 2 years at Uni and was considering joining the army or Navy after graduating. However, I didn't think much to the whole uber-tory vibe, seeming lack of any intelligence in many of the senior officers and excessive binge drinking. It isn't a job but a lifestyle and you either fit in or not and if you don't it all seems a little weird. The unnecessary vernacular and pointless traditions made me feel that the army was a whole different world.
On the flip side I got paid to learn to ski, would have got some great outdoors and SCUBA qualifications (but for admin F-ups), might have got a commission (another admin F-up) and got to travel a bit. You also make great friends, get great disposable income, pension and healthcare among other benefits.
My advice would be to maybe take a look at some of the scholarships available for A levels or Uni. There's also Wellbeck college which might be of interest? When you consider you could have a 30k degree paid for, be in the TA for 3 years at uni earning up to 2-5k and then walk straight into a decent job it does seem fairly attractive and you can leave after only a few years with a big wad of cash, lots of free qualifications, lots of friends and memories.
Wow. He sounds a lot more mature than I was at 16. I was an army cadet for a few years and really enjoyed it until it all got a bit too much like hard work... some of my friends joined up and said cadets had been excellent preparation.
I think if he's been a cadet for a bit and talked to currently serving friends, he's probably got a fair idea. I can't remember if they still do them, or if they're for everyone, but the Army used to run short taster courses - like basic training but for a few days - to give potential recruits an idea what to expect. They can probably tell him about them at the BARB.
It's a great idea and will give him a much more definite start in life, if he can hack it, than the usual drifting through college drifting through university slowly being turned into the average indebted consumer that some of his schoolfriends are going to do.
A good mate of mine joined up at 15yrs and 9months, which I understand to be the minimum age of signing up. Had the date written in his diary!
He comes from a very broken family (Mum died of heroin OD, Dad's an alcoholic... so was raised from age 10 by his ultra strict Aunt...)... so it was an opportunity to start afresh.
By his own admittance, if it was not for the decision of joining the army - he would have been in the middle of the Riots, getting mixed up with that sort of crowd...
Now he's 21, a Lance-Corporal ( in charge of 8 men ), and in the Rifles on the front line in Afghan (he flies out in Oct for 6 months).
He's seen more of the world than most of the posters in this thread put together, and enjoyed his time.
It's not for everyone - but for some people, it can be an amazing life changing experience.
I would also be full of admiration for him taking such a massive decision.
Indeed. Let him do it - I would have the same mixed emotions, mrs_oab would be very worried for them, but great choice and brave decision.
Get him in there and get his mother down the careers office to speak to the lads in there too. I went to college after a poor attempt at school and completely wasted 2 years failing A levels. Joined the Navy and have been in for 10 years. You'll find in the Armed Forces in general,that the only people that need to be academically gifted are the Officers, but then again you wont find an ounce of common sense in anyone of them.
Theres nothing for school leavers and even less for people with "Life Experience". If theres a branch recruiting in the Army encourage him all the way coz theres nothing more trouble than a bored teen.
Get him to read "Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.
If he still want to join after that, then fine
It's what is heart is set on, it is a valuable and demanding job. The financial rewards are meagre but the life experience is invaluable and it's own reward. The only alternative advise of any merit is that which my dad gave my brother ,finish your education first the army will still be there when you graduate, in your case from what you say he has probably gone as far as will be useful to him with his education. I would support his decision .
from a purely practical point a couple of thousand redundancies in the armed forces announced today and thousands more over the next few years (according to BBC)
is the army the same entity a lot of the posters here are talking about
I'd reply great! But try and steer him towards a trade within/engineers etc rather than Infantry.
I also say why not? Discipline etc and it doesn't mean it has to be for life does it.
[i]it doesn't mean it has to be for life does it.[/i]
not sure I'd choose that as a phrase with regard to joinging the army right now 🙁
As others have said , He is obviously a brave lad . My boy Is really into the idea of soldiers , though he is only 8 . If he came home and was insisting on a career in the forces I'd probably try and steer him into a role in The Royal Navy. Maybe this is a being Naive but It just seems a hell of a lot safer.
He will certainly get a trade , see the world and come out with qualifications and a lot of life experience. Knowing what he knows about current conflicts he must be really brave to want to join up as I'd imagine years ago a fare percentage joined thinking they would never see action.
Its a hard decision but you must be really proud of the boy for not wanting to sit on his farter like most other school leavers do.
Good on him, he sounds like a decent lad who has got his head screwed on.
Personally, i wouldn't fancy joining an infantry regiment - a lot of the time, the young lads get treated like children, and as a result continue to behave like children. If i was to join the Army, i'd look into the Royal Engineers/REME or similar.
I left school with practically no qualifications. At 18, i joined the RAF. Some years later, i'm earning decent money, working with some good people and i've been to more countries than most people can name. Three square meals a day, job security(although i realise that's a controversial subject at the minute), a good non-contributory pension... the list of benefits goes on. Best of all, i get free time off to go riding, and i get a metaphorical high-five on my annual appraisal for doing it! There are worse things to be doing.
It'll certainly make a man of your boy, but i think a better quality of life can be found outside the infantry.
There are a lot of positives about joining the armed forces, but not only do you have to look at the number of redundancies being announced you also have to look at the number who put their name forward to go; more than they needed!
The ultimate pull-out from Afghanistan in a few years will have an effect on the numbers required, but will also have a negative on recruitment as an op tour is still a pull for many recruits/serving personnel.
The infantry, if that is his choice, are great 'family' regiments who really look after their own.
In this day and age i'd be steering him towards Royal Signals/REME/Royal Engineers as all have good trade potential in Comms/IT or electrical/engineering. Something he will need when eventually his Army career is up after 22yrs or similar making him 38-40 yrs old with still another 25-26years left of useful civvie working life to go.
I would be proud of my son if he decided to join up, after some careful thought processes first though as obviously not a light decision. Good on him.
good on him. talk to him about it. see what he has to say and point out the whole getting shot at/ killed angle. if he's serious he'll have given that some thought and will have an answer for you. if only more 15/16yr olds knew what they wanted to do.
Catflees and bigbloke spot on.
He's obviously done his research, heard firsthand (yes he obviously looks upto his cousins but they'll tell him the bloody boring bits etc etc).
At the end of the day, its his life and his decisions. Support him 😀
his cousins are infantry (lancashire fusiliers)
they disappeared in 1968
don't let him join the TA if he is going regular there is a risk he could end up in Afganistan with the 20% of the training he needs
If he really he wants to do it then let him, for long term career prospects then a trade is always good, for moments of extreme adrenaline interspersed with long periods of boredom then infantry is for him
The reforms surely won't affect someone at the bottom, though? They're cheap and still needed in large numbers. I'd be more worried about mid-rank scalable employees (like my cousin that is a warehouse soldier, whatever the right name for that is).
He has recently been in Africa doing some charity work (I posted about it recently) which he funded almost totally himself and I think this has also opened his eyes to the wider world.
Impressive.
The reforms surely won't affect someone at the bottom, though? They're cheap and still needed in large numbers. I'd be more worried about mid-rank scalable employees
The Army is reducing in size and numbers. The personnel are reduced from all areas as, proportionally, you have les of everything - you take from the 'side of the pyramid', you don't take bites out of it.
Get him to read "Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.If he still want to join after that, then fine
You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I'd put a few more books higher up the list.
when I was his age my mate, who was seriously on the road to nowhere got into Welbeck college, basically a 6th form for the army. He almost got kicked out a few times, but ended up going to sandhurst. Spent 10 years in the army and got up to captain. Got out and is doing very, very well for himself now.
The army pretty much turned his life around, and saved him from a life of crime and prison (his brother is currently in prison IIRC). Maybe see if your son can go down this route?
Thanks all. Most of the comments pretty much sum up how I feel about his choice. A long conversation on the phone with his mum appears to have brought her round somewhat too. Have just been reading up on the "insight" courses, basically a four day experience of army life, which I'm going to discuss with him, though he has been on a few week long camps with cadets and loved it.
Guy Sajer? If we were in that situation we'd ALL join the army as that was total war.
A unique event in history.
Get him to read "Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer.
Unless we attack Russia and then retreat having laid waste to their country for a couple of years I guess he'll be spared that. On the flip side, given the possibility it's historical fiction, you could perhaps also suggest reading the Lord of the Rings and understanding how an orc foot soldier handled the assault on helms deep or something 😉
To the OP - Kudos to you for supporting him; being concerned is natural but it sounds like your son has plotted his route into the next part of his life so providing you're sure that he's sure, all good.
Think about how much honesty comes out of a politician's mouth...now imagine that their decisions are made with your life in the balance at the expense of others.
My heart sinks every time I hear of a new person joining the army. So many people ready and willing to sacrifice everything for the gain of someone else who wouldn't do the same.
I also disagree that going and shooting lots of people can really help a conflict. How frequently is the main "target" really hit, how many others get it in the meantime.
I don't think it's fair for people of such a young age to put themselves at the forefront of international politics when they are unlikely to have a full understanding of it. Especially as the initial reason for his military interest is inadequacy.
Sorry, but I feel that lives are unnecessarily lost both behind and in front of the barrel. There are many, many other ways to make a huge difference; humanitarian work, red cross, medicine san frontiers, emergency aid work etc.
Herman - you're going to get a flaming for that but I do see where you're coming from to an extent.
It is a fair point to mention that anyone joining the UK military these days should be expecting to be engaged in active conflict zones, and that some of those missions are pointless and counterproductive in terms of the UK's security, let alone for the people who live there. On the other hand, intervention in Bosnia (once it came...), Kosovo and Sierra Leone has been mostly for the good.
But it is fair to consider that OP's son will potentially be placing his life, and the lives of others, in jeopardy on occasion, and sometimes there will be no good reason for that.
Unfortunately, Herman, you also identify one of the big social problems at the moment: given that apprenticeships are thin on the ground, what is there for a willing, not academically-inclined 16 year old to do with her/himself productively? (Let alone for an unwilling 16 year old with a personality disorder, mental illness, substance abuse problem, criminal record...)
You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I'd put a few more books higher up the list.
Yes, it is about a conflict nearly 70 years ago - but as to relevance today?
Well I cant answer that - but I'll let the US military do so. Sajer's book remains (certainly until recently) on the US Army Staff College reading list [i]BECAUSE[/i] it portrays the raw experience of the infantry soldier.
Sajer's "disputed autobiography" remains a rare thing (despite the number of books coming from recent Iraqi and Afghan operations) and therefore transcends it's date and theatre - it is a foot soldier's view point of the confusion, terror and horro of serving in the frontline.
Also, AFAIK, the disputes about authenticity have largely been addressed and the work accepted as authentic. [url= http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/sajer.htm ]Debate on authenticity[/url]
ETA - I didn't suggest this as a spoiler. I'd say good luck, but choose branch carefully. Many of my school / teenage mate joined up, and most did well. One of my career choices was RAF Regiment. It came down to joining up or taking up an unexpected offer to do a geology degree.
Well I cant answer that - but I'll let the US military do so. Sajer's book remains (certainly until recently) on the US Army Staff College reading list BECAUSE it portrays the raw experience of the infantry soldier.
So what? The British Army is not the US Army and it never will be. Different ethos, thinking, people, attitude, skills. The Americans do lots of things that are unthinkable to the British military. A book once on a reading list for senior officers in a foreign military is no recommendation in itself for a 15 year old Brit.
I say good effort to the lad. I'm a bootneck (Royal Marine) so might be a little bias but the military isn't all about poking people wearing bedsheets with something sharp. I've done a tour of Afghanistan but that has not been anywhere near the highlight of my career to date. I've had the opportunity to visit 8 different countries in 2 years, gain my B, C, C+E licences. Learn to ski. I'm also being booked onto a long language course learning (hopefully) Arabic.
I agree that an infanteer role isn't that great as there aren't a whole heap of transferable skills for Civ Div. A friend of mine is in the Engineers and is raking in a good wage after tax aswell so its not all doom and gloom. Good luck to the lad, whatever he chooses.
It is a fair point to mention that anyone joining the UK military these days should be expecting to be engaged in active conflict zones
Not after about 2015 they shouldn't.
I think those making the 'if you've not got any other option it is a good option' noises are blissfully ignorant of the fact it is a reducing military in size (so harder to get in) and actually a volunteer force these days.
Not after about 2015 they shouldn't.
If the MOD managers stop pissing money up the wall with BAE then fine.
Nimrods springs to mind for one.
too true, what does an army recruit need to know about proper warfare these days, tis all about dominating the local populace with overwhelming force and technology!! how noble! 😀You think a disputed autobiography about a French man serving as a conscript in the German Army fighting the Russians on the Eastern Front in WWII is relevant reading for a teenager in 2011? I'd put a few more books higher up the list
tis all about dominating the local populace with overwhelming force and technology!! how noble!
Maybe we should just do what the IRA did and blow them all up. how noble! 😀
I did TA (OTC) at university then joined the regular Infantry. I remember being in exactly your boys shoes, being 15, having pals who were in or joining, caught the bug. I'm very glad I did it, grew up very fast, laughed my ass off every day.
Being a soldier is great, and it's tempting to jump right in at the sharp end and be an infanteer. As above, I'd say get him into a technical corp, Royal Engineers, Signals, REME, Air Corps, Logistics. Will open up many more options for him when he leaves, he will likely get paid a bit more (that still the case?) and dare I say it might find he's amongst a slightly higher calibre of soldier. I hate saying that last bit but I fear it's probably true......my own regiment (Scottish Infantry) was a pretty harsh environment for a young lad, some "characters". If he finds once he has his trade he wants to do some more proper soldiering he can go do selection for Airborne, Royal Marines or that mob in Hereford. Loads of my pals did.
I do sympathise a bit with some of the comments above about politicians not to be trusted, sending our guys into harms way. I have two sons, I'm not going to actively encourage them into the military partly for that reason, but if they decide on their own account I will give them the whole truth, warts and all.
I'm going out for dinner next month with 4 guys I was at Sandhurst with 20yrs ago, we still meet up regularly. Thats what the military is all about.
Not after about 2015 they shouldn't.
Oh, yeah? Global stability, energy autarky and the end of cynical wars scheduled for 31 December 2014, are they? 😆
Good luck to him 🙂
Better than sitting at a desk all day wielding a pen and piling on the pounds 🙂
The good thing about bring British is we don't whoop and shout about our boys in the military. Its just a quiet and very strong appreciation.
Just how I like it 🙂
There was a program called Our War on yesterday, perhaps get him to watch that as it shows both positive elements such comradery to the negative elements such as killing a child!
Ok for anyone against him joining:
- He could get a first job in Carphonewarehouse with aload of Graduates
- He could then buy a Fiat Punto on stupid insurance just after hes paid alot of money to learn then pass his test. Hes never got enough money and lives at home, bored.
- His mates take the piss and he loves to show off to them driving around at speed.
- He gets into recreational drugs and drinks alot on a regular basis
- He gets bored of CarphoneWarehouse but doesn't have a clue what to do so goes on a plastering course.
At this point, all hes seen of the world is Magaluf. Hes also been in alot of fights and almost binned his car on numerous occassions.
He also crosses busy roads daily.
Hora is that the outline script for a Friday night comedy on More4?
Could be. Its depressing me just reading it though.
I'm nowhere near there but if my Son was in a similar situation I'd feel proud (and scared) in equal measure.
At this point, all hes seen of the world is Magaluf.
A teenager going out drinking with fellow squaddies in shitty bars in crappy port/barracks towns instead of going out drinking with fellow mobile phone salesmen in shitty bars in Magaluf, is it?
Hora, that's a pretty pessimistic view of what he could do instead of the army. Sure it's the reality for some but what's to say that's the only option?
Oh, and that can all happen after he's done his bit with the army too!
There are a huge number of vocational careers for the "non-academic". Listing them all would be a task I can't fathom doing on a chat forum. I'm currently doing a degree in outdoor adventurous activities and many others who attended considered themselves "non-academic". It turns out they were actually quite academic, they just hadn't been taught in a style that suits their learning. He's hardly exhausted his life experiences, don't box him in to a cliche.
It saddens me that friendship and purpose are being advertised as more present in military experience than others. It's great for those that have found it, but there's more than one way to approach it.
