Assuming of course there is ampoule evidence?
Nicely done. I was going to make a similar, but not as good, joke. But I bottled it.
^^ Well done both of you.👍
As a Sheffield resident, I don’t give a toss about Roy Chubby Brown. What gets my back up is pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us
I haven't checked the specifics of this case, but councils have public duties and I suspect there would be some concern about one of their venues being used to advance overtly discriminatory views.
pompous self-righteous councillors deciding what’s good for us.
But isn't that the point of councillors?
If you want bin collections, Social services, roads fixing, or indeed a particular policy on racist comics playing at publicly owned venues? Speak to your local councillor.
Don't agree with the priorities they've set? Vote for a different one when they're up for re-election, in theory they're there to enact the will of the majority in the city.
Perhaps they're wrong and Sheffield should host more bigots not less. You could always stand yourself if you believe this is a genuinely important issue for the city...
So I just watched that. The interview was a bit strange - but I'm assuming it was on something like BBC World which always does have a kind of weird "taking life seriously 24/7 attitude". However his words and actions didn't match up: everyone is too polarised because they only get one side in the media they watch but then not presenting "the other side", protect but don't over protect but then not being willing to discuss where that boundary is and then "England was always very good at compromise, not any more" and then he pulls off the headphones and walks off... he's actually the epitome of the problem he was describing!
I suspect how you view his performance though depends on which side of the polarised debate you are on. If you think the world is too woke and cancel culture is ridiculous you probably believe he "showed them" and if you think when you resort to calling stuff woke you've really not got a logic argument why its bad he's just proven the point!
When you do public interviews you’re givn a brief to work towards, its generally accpeted as unprofessional if you deviate from that with a view to catchnig people out. I think he did fine and he has a lot of valid points.
As far as I'm concerned if you go on a TV channel I am funding through my license fee to promote your commercial offering then anything is fair game. If you want my interest you'll need to have something interesting to say - and unless you happen to be in Asia him appearing in a show there is not enough. So why he chose Asia could be interesting, how the pandemic was affecting his show content could be interesting, but he didn't seem to want to talk about those things either. And if you want to use the "its comedy" loophole to being offensive you should damn well be willing to sit there and explain yourself - otherwise I'm not sure it is comedy. I'd have no doubt the Billy Connely or Frankie Boyle could happily hold a conversation about when comedy becomes offensive and offence is funny.
Perhaps they’re wrong and Sheffield should host more bigots not less. You could always stand yourself if you believe this is a genuinely important issue for the city…
🙂 Well I'm not that bothered about it...
I only brought it up because another poster had declared that cancelling doesn't happen. Yet I could recount one example that happened recently near me. Just playing devil's avocado. Back to John Cleese.
Is he funny?
Well, he's locked up for life. That at least amuses me.
So are you implying that one generation matters more than another.
No, I'm not implying anything. I'm asserting it.
My kids, were I to have any, would matter more than me. And their kids, more than them. They're here for longer than I will be, so what they need is more important.
A meringue?
No, I’m not implying anything. I’m asserting it.
Well, that couldn’t be more clear. I completely disagree. I think people’s views should be treated equally regardless of how much longer they have to live. This was the case when I was 20 & will still be the case when &if I get to 80. I don’t see why age should trump all. It isn’t really surprising there are culture wars if some people are considered to be more important than others.
Well, good. That's opinions for you. I'm glad at least that mine is unambiguous for once.
Personally I'd rather not **** up the next generation's lives, but here we are. Brexit's going well, isn't it. If you'd sacrifice your kids in favour of your own betterment then, eh, I've got nothing else.
If you’d sacrifice your kids in favour of your own betterment then, eh, I’ve got nothing else.
With respect, that isn't quite what we are disscussing here (or at least I'm not). We are talking about the extent to which one generation's views, beliefs and opinions should be allowed to dictate to another, different, generation. It's the degree to which the 'right' way to think is entirely based on a particular population sub-group's attitudes. I confidently predict that in 30 years time there are a whole load of people who are going to be shocked discover how wrong they were & how everything is apparently all their fault.
Generally, it’s up to those making a claim to support it
Tightyrighty: QED.
Oh, the ironing.
I guess I gave you too much credit. The right don't cancel people. Typically that's the left. Therein lies the joke.
And thus JP faded into obscurity? Or found himself with a new career as an alt-right meeja “thinker”? His platform and income have grown as a result of this “cancelling” he got.
Yeah, I wonder how they all feel now that it backfired on them in a spectacular fashion.
There’s this thing called “burden of proof” also.
Posted 4 hours ago
How would you like me to prove I recall something? fMRI?
he right don’t cancel people. Typically that’s the left. Therein lies the joke.
No one gets cancelled. The right made it up to save them writing new material. Therein lies no jokes
No one gets cancelled. The right made it up to save them writing new material. Therein lies no jokes
That is probably the most interesting question. What is cancellung and does it really exist. Certainly groups have managed to force cancelation of speeches and the like of people with whom they disagree. Largely those in the right have been the speakers but mostly that's because it's been in the US where the right have been emboldened. Public figures have lost jobs or gigs or, at the moment, careers over public outcry over past sins. So in that sense, it's real. Then again 80% of comments on twitter are generated by 2% of users or something insane like that. Mob rule trying to shut down ideas that they don't like isn't new, but they borrowed a label from New Jack City and it now has a name.
When those on the right try it, it usually fails spectacularly. I recall a bunch of antivaxxers tried to cancel an ice cream company over its support for vaccines. People bought more ice cream in support. I guess you have to read the room sbefore you try it.
cromolyolly
Public figures have lost jobs or gigs or, at the moment, careers over public outcry over past sins.
Indeed they have but pick a few from either side of the pond. Public figures losing their jobs is generally because, as a society, they are seen to have crossed a line. It's how societies all over the world self regulate if your like. Laws are created and hopefully applied to all. Hopefully.
In the last few years people have lost their jobs or even their liberty with sexual offences being a common theme amongst others of course.
That's not cancel culture. It's just not. That's decent societal culture asserting the laws that protect itself. By itself I mean it's people. You and I, our children and partners.
No cancel culture in that.
That is probably the most interesting question. What is cancellung and does it really exist.
Further to that, dors cancelling exist for one person and not a other depending on your point of view.
piemonster
Further to that, dors cancelling exist for one person and not a other depending on your point of view.
Could you clarify the question? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just not sure what you are getting at?
Could you clarify the question? I’m not being argumentative, I’m just not sure what you are getting at?
Actually perhaps not that easy to explain.
Person A) You’ve not been cancelled
Person B) I’ve been cancelled
Both outcomes from the same event and believed to be fact by both.
Person A) Views the outcome as Person B) being fully able to do whatever it was
Person B) Views the outcome through a traumatic perspective and no longer feels able to engage with whatever it was
Just pondering possible permutations, Person B could be an absolute roaster that fully deserved it.
^^ Thanks and I think that's the problem, "cancel culture" is so subjective, so emotive and sometimes so hard to even define that it's very existence it's hard to substantiate.
Even blogs or books will tend to have an agenda based on the author.
I personally feel that labelling such a potentially complex subject with an umbrella name helps neither side in the debate.
It's simply a rallying call, it brings people together... To argue over its very existence.
Cancel culture, it's very name attempts to over simply. If the last few years have taught us anything it's that get few things are truly binary.
Oh, the ironing.
I guess I gave you too much credit. The right don’t cancel people. Typically that’s the left. Therein lies the joke.
Quite so. I didn't need to prove my case because you did it for me. I had hoped that you would be better at this.
With respect, that isn’t quite what we are disscussing here (or at least I’m not). We are talking about the extent to which one generation’s views, beliefs and opinions should be allowed to dictate to another, different, generation.
Sure.
The question posed was whether our generation's 'opinion' was more important than the next's. And my answer to that is a solid "no." Would you disagree with that?
I confidently predict that in 30 years time there are a whole load of people who are going to be shocked discover how wrong they were & how everything is apparently all their fault.
Can you elaborate on this? Who do you expect to be wrong, us or them or both?
How would you like me to prove I recall something? fMRI?
Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's arse what you may or may not believe that you recall. What I care about is whether your assertions have any basis in fact or whether it's just inflammatory propaganda.
You said:
"I seem to recall several occasions when the looney lefty uni-brigade have used physical intimidation and violence to prevent speakers they disagree with from giving lectures. I seem to recall one occasion when they chucked bricks through the windows of the venue. The lecture was cancelled on safety grounds. That kind of cancel culture definitely exists."
Where? When? Who? Which venue? Which lecture? Who was supposed to be speaking? What do you seem to recall? Several occasions even, not just a single isolated incident of "looney left" physical violence but seemingly an almost commonplace occurrence. Is your recollection good enough to name one of them?
Sounds like Cancel Culture has been, err Cancelled?
big_n_daft
Free MemberSo people writing to venue owners/management asking them to cancel prebooked gigs isn’t cancelling someone?
Correct.
Cancelling a show isn't cancelling a person, since they can put on a show elsewhere. Writing to someone asking them to cancel something obviously isn't cancelling anything. That's what "asking them to" means.
Who actually thought that cancelling meant cancelling a person? Do we really need to explain that? Of course it means cancelling a show or appearance etc. Cancelling a person is just, well, murder no? As well as presumably cancelling the offence-maker's entire family and history. A bit like a left-wing Nineteen Eighty-Four. Just lifted out of history, they don't exist. They never did exist. And rightly so comrade! That'll learn 'em for saying something that somebody else found offensive on behalf of somebody else eh?
^^Google can't translate that for me.😉
Precisely. It would be like a service removing and episode of Fawlty Towers, yet you can watch it elsewhere. Then a grumpy old actor calling it cancel culture and getting upset because they’re royalties have fallen.
jambourgie
Free MemberWho actually thought that cancelling meant cancelling a person? Do we really need to explain that? Of course it means cancelling a show or appearance etc. Cancelling a person is just, well, murder no?
No. Cancelling a show is cancelling a show. Cancelled people lose jobs, careers, the ability to voice their opinions.
Most people who complain that they're being cancelled do so with a media-assisted megaphone which is, well, insane but there you go. People try to make it mean "someone is criticising me" or "I don't like the consequences of my actions".
So no, Roy Chubby Brown who is out on a 12-gig tour and has just had a biography published has not been cancelled. He's been mildly inconvenienced.
Roy Chubby Brown
Now there's a name I've not heard of in a while! 12-gig tour you say? Biography published? He's doing alright after getting banned eh? Can't buy that kind of publicity. Are you his agent?
Most people who complain that they’re being cancelled do so with a media-assisted megaphone which is, well, insane but there you go. People try to make it mean “someone is criticising me” or “I don’t like the consequences of my actions”
Isn’t that the truth!
jambourgie
Free MemberNow there’s a name I’ve not heard of in a while
You feeling OK?
I was confused but then I recalled Jambourgie’s history.
Coming up next at the Sheffield Palladium: the comedy stylings of Abu Hamza. Don’t agree with him, don’t go.
On the one hand I’m imagining what he would say would be hugely entertaining, but on the other hand - not so much.
Where? When? Who? Which venue? Which lecture? Who was supposed to be speaking? What do you seem to recall?
I recall several. Milos Yanopoulis or whatever his name is. Ann Coulter, Jordan Peterson. I'm sure I've read about others but I don't remember all the names, just the events. Do your own homework.
Public figures losing their jobs is generally because, as a society, they are seen to have crossed a line. It’s how societies all over the world self regulate if your like. Laws are created and hopefully applied to all. Hopefully.
I would suggest that they have been seen to have crossed an arbitrary line by the largest or loudest mob. That's how cancel culture works. Even if you said something which was unremarkable at the time but is now consider offside, that is enough. Prope are afraid to say what they think or believe, not because it's illegal or wrong but because someone with a megaphone (and let's face it, with social media everyone has one) takes offense. It's mob rule, bullying whatever you wanna call it. Not democratic and no one is well served by it.
I didn’t need to prove my case because you did it for me.
That's not at all what you've proved to me.
Who actually thought that cancelling meant cancelling a person? Do we really need to explain that? Of course it means cancelling a show or appearance etc. Cancelling a person is just, well, murder no? A
I think its more about taking away their opportunity to be relevant, or seen.
If you ran STW and someone said something you disagreed with and you kicked them off here, you wouldn't have murdered them, but the would cease to exist here. Which is the goal of cancel culture.
Cancelled people lose jobs, careers, the ability to voice their opinions.
No. They lose the platform on which to voice their opinions. They can still rant aimlessly on the internet like the fleet of us. And, indeed, write columns in national newspapers whining that they’ve been “cancelled”
If you ran STW and someone said something you disagreed with and you kicked them off here, you wouldn’t have murdered them, but the would cease to exist here. Which is the goal of cancel culture.
No, they simply wouldn’t be able to voice on here. They’re still not been cancelled, a platform has the right to allow what is voiced on their platform. For here it would need to be they’ve broken the forum rules, the rules they agreed to.
That’s not at all what you’ve proved to me.
I'm sure you think that's true.
Do your own homework.
And with that his entire argument vanished...
Cancelled people lose jobs, careers, the ability to voice their opinions.
This does happen. I don’t think it happens as often as the meeja would like. And there often is a distinction between ‘job’ and ‘platform’ although celebrities often blur this distinction as part of their ‘job’ is being famous (requires platform)
Some examples:
- Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the national anthem at NFL games to protest racist police brutality, and conservatives called for the end of his career. Donald Trump publicly stated, "Get that son of a bitch off the field." Colin ended up getting removed from his team after that season, and no other NFL team would take him. A former NFL executive later admitted the league intentionally ousted him because of his activism.
- Ultra-conservative writer Milo Yiannopoulos will no longer speak at a US conservative conference and his book deal has been cancelled after videos surfaced in which he appeared to condone paedophilia.
University of California at Berkeley cancelled Mr Yiannopoulos' speaking engagement there after violent protests broke out. President Trump - whom Mr Yiannopoulos refers to as "daddy" - threatened to cut the university's federal funding in response.
He was also banned from Twitter last year after leading a campaign of abuse against black Ghostbusters actress Leslie Jones.
Prope are afraid to say what they think or believe
Do you honestly think that someone like Jordan Peterson or Milo or Richard Dawkins is genuinely afraid to say something they believe? From what I've seen and heard most of the folks who repeatedly exclaim that their views aren't tolerated have made a very healthy career and bank balance saying pretty much anything and everything they think will gain them an audience.
Jordan Peterson has been so effectively cancelled by the woke lefty mob that he's *checks notes* playing Wembley Arena on his next speaking tour.
It's all part of the grift innit?
