The sport's governing body stated that the concentration found by the laboratory was estimated at 50 picograms (or 0,000 000 000 05 grams per ml), which is 400 times less than what the antidoping laboratories accredited by WADA are required to detect.
Hard to say what kind of advantage [if any]he gained with such low levels
FFS even your own posts says it is gone after 36 hours so how the hell would it still be there from pre tour use and also not detected before? 🙄
I think we all realised that bit with your totally contradictory explanation of the positive test and subsequent ramblings about thinking only the stage winner is tested.
Is there any need for such an aggressive tone? We're simply discussing a situation that none of us are fully informed about in the hope that we can, from our collective input, form more informed opinions.
I really don't think it's the time or the place for you to be trying to start one of your petty arguments.
Yes its a small amount but hes literally a character out of Burtons Nightmare before Christmas so that amount is probably smacking him upto his tits 😆
Clenbuterol is one of the most easily detected things out there, as someone has already said it would be a massive error on the part of a doper or their doping-management to have them take it.
It appears as a contaminant in a lot of food supplements, one of the articles on Cylingnews covers this pretty well. There is also past examples of athletes being banned for Clenbuterol use, then finding traces of it in their supplements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Hardy
I'm not a huge Contador fan, but I do think it is a shame what appears to be a possible accident (even by the admission of the UCI press statement) is being aired so publicly.
Is there any need for such an aggressive tone? I really don't think it's the time or the place for you to be trying to start one of your petty arguments
Sorry I failed to realise you had an epiphany and are no longer a hate filled bile spouting monger of insults- I said nothing personal about you [a standard you fail to adhere to]- still want to defend what you said to FC am I anywhere near that rude? Still prepared to say it face to face? I only pointed out what you said was incoherent pish which it is.
In deference to the new sensitive Adam who is capable of being offended. I offer a fulsome apology for saying your argument was b0ll0cks and promise to treat you with the respect you treat others from now on.
Sorry I failed to realise you had an epiphany
I have a Moment, actually. ;o)
Junkyard - leave it.. no need to keep being an arse. Nothing bad's been said on this thread, let's keep it that way.
Quite a coincidence that his food was contaminated with a drug that is widely used by athletes, particularly top level cyclists, and particularly cyclists wanting to lose weight and increase lean muscle mass
Not really a co-incidence, since the performance enhancing drugs are the ones that get tested. Your food could be contaminated with all sorts of things that don't enhance performance, and no-one would ever know.
either way - not a great day for cycling.
(and, what about all the footballers and tennis pros who have been involved in the big doping cases?? Not much seems to happen in those cases, just 'other sports' like cycling)
becky_kirk43 - MemberGiven the fact its such a tiny amount
Oh that's fine then seeing as it was only a tiny bit......Easily done too I'm sure - accidentally got some Stanazolol over my Crunchy Nut Cornflakes this morning, as you do.
"such a tiny amount " is significant in two respects:
a) as per the UCI statement - not performance enhancing (therefore would a cheasting athlete really have bothered with such a low "dose")
b) The substance may be easy to detect, but at very low concentrations the laboratory detection and reporting errors become a statistically significant component. I'd be surprised if such a result was even covered within the laboratory's method accreditation...
FFS even your own posts says it is gone after 36 hours so how the hell would it still be there from pre tour use and also not detected before?
Could be the traces from blood bagged before the tour then transfused on the rest day?
[i]Could be the traces from blood bagged before the tour then transfused on the rest day? [/i]
You wouldn't put blood in/out on a rest day.
If you're going to blood dope it's done on the morning of a hard stage - any sooner and the body actually starts to break it down to restore the normal balance of blood.
Interesting theory though!
The substance may be easy to detect, but at very low concentrations the laboratory detection and reporting errors become a statistically significant component
50 pg/ml isn't a particularly low level, you can routinely detect much lower concentrations than that.
I have molgrips. I dont understand why you keep wanting to defend him giving his vitrolic posting history. As I said I will treat him the way he treats others. I insulted his argument [ rightly] not the person.
Halington Intersting suggestion but why would he bag contaminated blood? I would at the very least test the stuff for drugs before putting it back in me. Not sure if it would still degrade in bagged blood but other "stuff" does as they are using it to develop a test for transfusions from self to self - no test for this at present IIRC. My knowledge limit is reached. At such small levels, and not performancing enhancing on a rest day, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I am no great fan and think it was very unsporting to attack the mechanical so not his number one fan boy.
In this case I am not defending him, I am criticising you for keeping old fights going into new threads when he's not actually said anything bad here.
You want him to be nice, he's being nice, and you continue having a go with what APPEARS to be animosity disguised with fake apologies. That's how I read it anyway, and I really do apologise if I've misconstrued.
Just heard Millar on the radio saying he didn't believe it, it didn't make sense, it was a rest day etc etc
He knows about doping I suppose.
On the other hand, the landis thing didn't make sense either. Too easy to detect. I didn't believe it at the time.
I'm not bothered either way tbh, it all adds to the drama if you ask me.
I insulted his argument [ rightly] not the person.
But in your eagerness to try and stir trouble, you completely overlooked the fact that I was making suggestions based on what I clearly admitted were not a full uderstanding of the situation in the hope that others could clarify the facts. That's how a discussion works. Stick around, you might learn something.
And repeatedly bringing up a jokey putdown that I delivered to another troll does nothing but make you look desperate. 🙄
I've always suspected contador, even since he beat cancellara in that time trial in the tour in 09. But for cyclings sake, I've always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. If it comes out that he was cheating, then I will hate him for this. I'm not going to pay much attention to this thread because its probably just going to be a load of roadie hating mtbers telling everyone that all roadies are dopers. I think I will wait until the truth comes out before making a proper judgement. Lets just hope cycling pulls through.
[crazy armstrong fan]ARMSTRONG SO WOULDVE WON IF CONTADOR WASNT CHEATING HE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE YELLOW JERSEY BY DEFAULT[/crazy armstrong fan]
Terry Thomas did it:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/tour-de-france-bans-terry%11thomas-201009303129/
before spiking his own meal with ze drugs and zen pulling ze old 'switcheroo'."
😆
50 pg/ml isn't a particularly low level, you can routinely detect much lower concentrations than that.
I've developed HPLC cleaning methods for API's and the result that they are getting (if my maths is right) is 3 orders of magnitude (2 if we used a larger injection volume) below the range we would be looking at for direct injection.
I presume you want him to piss 30 gallons to be able to concentrate the samples for analysis?
It's a tiny amount and I would suspect without sample manipulation (ie concentrating) that the result is about LOQ if not LOD and as such not worth bothering your arse over.
With a lot of sample manipulation you could get a result into linear range but the result obtained is such a tiny amount it's not worth bothering your arse over.
Any latest news on this?
He's giving a press conference now. Blames contamination of meat bought in Spain. How he's traced this, ive no idea.
He's giving a press conference and meanwhile this news breaks...
Saccades - you seem to know your stuff, is there any known substances that masks this steroid? I suppose thats a bit of a daft question though? cause if they knew about them they'd test for them....
[i]Saccades - you seem to know your stuff, is there any known substances that masks this steroid? I suppose thats a bit of a daft question though? cause if they knew about them they'd test for them.... [/i]
Clenbuterol has such a short half life that it's not worth masking.
It's not my field, but the science is the same (if that makes sense).
Most applications involve either "spreading" out the sample through a detector and comparing to a known reference standard (generally comparing retention times) or affecting the sample in some way (giving it a charge/smashing it into it's components).
It's much easier for me because I know I'm looking for X because that's what we just made, X happens to break down to Y and Z and maybe some other bits etc - it's rare that Q will pop up out of no-where.
It's much harder for drug testing labs ('spesh if the dopers know which method is being used to analyse the samples) as just something like the pH of the sample can completely shift the RT's.
With something like a Mass Spec (smashes the molecule and you work out what it is from the ratio of the different smashed bits) you can add something else that would upset the ratio. You would like to think that the added "hider" would be seperated out by the sample prep method but that's why the testing labs are generally 1 step behind.
Blames contamination of meat bought in Spain
Abit like Jan Ulrich unfortunately falling into that industrial-sized vat of Cocaine? 😆
Yes its a small amount but hes literally a character out of Burtons Nightmare before Christmas so that amount is probably smacking him upto his tits
No Hora you're just fat.
I'm not fat. I'm sturdy like yo mamma 😆
[b]Shibboleth[/b] - MemberIs there any need for such an aggressive tone?
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Nice one Shib. That's proper tickled me that has.
You're not 'sturdy' Hora; you're fat. Binners told me.
You push your bike up hills. Need I say more?
A wikipedia article says "a lack of knowledge of the source of the substance ingested is not considered to be a defence against a positive result". Surely that means that Andy gets the TdF and Alberto gets a couple of years of training ahead of him irrespective of whether he intentionally doped or got some bad beef from Spain.
That would be ridiculous. Guilty even if you were INNOCENT and spiked? **** off!
well done hora - you're about to be the first stw-er sued for libel.
Nice one Shib. That's proper tickled me that has.
No problem my funny little friend, spreading happiness is my [i]raison d'être[/i].
🙂
Hora - yes. Look at Alain Baxter. Lost his Olympic medal for an obvious simple error. He used Vicks. Uk vicks contains nothing banned, US does - one sniff and he lost his medal.
for inadvertant use you get a shorter ban
anyone got some US vicks?
You push your bike up hills. Need I say more?
So would you if they actually had hills in that there London
Adam.. Discussion usually involve people with knowledge and the ability to make arguments that are actually either factually correct or logical. Yours had neither attribute did it? Yes I really do have a lot to learn about discussions from you. Perhaps you could print something on this?
Your jokey putdown is in seriously poor taste and to defend it is really surprising IMHO. I think if you said this to someones partner /mother/daughter in public [ you said you would say it to their face]I suspect people won’t be having a quick chortle at your rapier like wit.
Not read through all the posts so apologies if this has already been covered, Alberto has put his +ve test down to food contamination, how would he know this, and how could he pinpoint what meal caused it?
I've developed HPLC cleaning methods for API's and the result that they are getting (if my maths is right) is 3 orders of magnitude (2 if we used a larger injection volume) below the range we would be looking at for direct injection.
Quantitation of 5 pg/ml in plasma is possible these days, pointless speculating without knowing more about their methodology though.
how would he know this, and how could he pinpoint what meal caused it?
These guys live a very controlled and recorded life. That meat would be the only thing not 'normal' the day before the +ve, compared to his diet for the rest of the three weeks.
Lame excuse really.
Proper excuses:
Frank Van den Broucke - it was for my dog.
Yvonne Kraft - I was giving my granny her medication and must have inhaled some by accident.
P.S Haven't both Schleck bros served a ban for doping ??
hels - Not that I can find out about it. Frank was implicated in something in 2008 but seems to have been cleared. There's a lot of talk but which top pro road cyclist doesn't have people talk about them doping?
[i]P.S Haven't both Schleck bros served a ban for doping ?? [/i]
No. There were allegations that the elder one Frank was involved in Operation Puerto and it's known that he was at one point connected with the good Dr Fuentes but nothing ever stuck and he was formally cleared of all allegations (he was never charged with anything).
Although their team manager is Bjarne Riis, a known doper during his career including when he won the Tour.
And the manager of the new team they've started is also a known doper.
