MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So, every so often we get discussions that come down to how much better off England would be if it was independant from Scotland.
The thing is, the mainstream English parties know this not to be true, which is why you can't really vote for any anti-Unionist parties dahn sarf.
However, up here we do have the option to rid ourselves of the whinging wastrels from down there. We can vote SNP. The SNP are allegedly a single policy party, aiming for the dissolution of the Act of Union, meaning seperatuion of the two countries. So, if they were to put forward candidates in the English constituencies campaigining on nothing other than the dissoluion of the Act, would anyone vote for them?
You can keep Calamity Broon by the way, we'll just call that a goodwil gesture.
Jeez, I'm bored, just as well there's no end of taxpayer funds to keep me in the style to which Captain Flashie would like to become accustomed.
I think you are greatly over-estimating the extent to which the union is an issue for English voters.
I would almost definitely vote Plaid Cymru if they stood in Croydon. But only because they have imo, the best policies of any party in Westminster.
Yes, the SNPs are trolls. Well, Salmond, at least, in the internet troll sense of the term. 😉
"we're not allowed to take part in the election debate, we're going to take you to court"
"that's because your very existence is irrelevant to 2/3 of the population of the country, you buffoon. And besides, your policies make no sense. So sit down and be quiet"
("I'm going to make sure that Scottish people have jobs. By cutting Trident. You work out the logic")
BD's right. We're too busy enjoying all the vitamin D from the sun and lack of deep fried midges to worry much about the other place.
Bye Scotland, missing you already.
Be honest, do you really think you'd be given ALL the oil and gas money for the north sea? National waters extend a few miles offshore, beyond that its fair game (well it would be if nations hadnt agreed already who got what area). Seeing as those treaties were written up as great britain/uk/whatever, the English would have as much claim to (whats left of) the oil and gas as you.
And how many government departments are run from south of the border? You'd need your own:
DWP
DVLA
NHS
DEFRA
Army/Navy/Airforce
Or is it just too convenient to forget to account for all that in your sums? I mean, its not like the army employs any Scottish people is it, would Mr Salmond make them all unemployed, or expect the english taxpayer to pay for a Scottish army?
No, that's all nonsense, they can afford it all.
Don't try to talk them out of it.
I got a flyer from a chap standing for the "animal protection league" or somesuch, offering to stamp out illegal badger-baiting. I mean, it's a general election. Badger-baiting doesn't even get onto my radar as an issue, I'm not going to vote for him. Likewise, I'm not going to vote for someone whose only idea is dissolving the union. I have a view on it, it's an issue, but it's not an issue I'm going to spend a vote on.
I think you are greatly over-estimating the extent to which the union is an issue for English voters
Yup - I can honestly say I've never heard the subject come up in conversation - ever
it really never crosses anyone's mind
>would anyone vote for them?
Nope, don't flatter yourselves we don't give a sh*te 🙂
You'd need your own:DWP
DVLA
NHS
DEFRA
Army/Navy/Airforce
Indeed......and for example, I can imagine just how tricky it would be for an independent Scotland to figure out how to registrate vehicles and issue numberplates - without any help from the English.
registrate vehicles and issue numberplates - without any help from the English.
Don't the Welsh do that?
Don't the Welsh do that?
Good point ............the DVLA is in Swansea.
Cheers - I'll correct that :
[i]I can imagine just how tricky it would be for an independent Scotland to figure out how to registrate vehicles and issue numberplates - without any help from the Welsh.[/i]
Yup, all they have to do is download the open-source "vehicle registration" system off t'interwebs and away they go. No cost whatsoever 🙂
Short nucleotide polymorphisms?
You're all assuming that the various departments/ institutions and even armed forces are 'English owned' organisations, their services gifted out of pure niceness to the dependent Scots.
These areas are all paid for by taxes/resources produced by all of the UK and would have to be broken up with Scotland (and Wales) receiving a fair share.
Short nucleotide polymorphisms?
single nucleotide polymorphisms?
Ok, so you get X% of the tanks and planes, my point was, you still need to pay for them, and th epilots sitting in them etc.
My point was, in all the maths I've seen the numbers used have been conveniently selected to say the least. i.e. they assume your going to get all the oil money, and not have to spend millions replicating every whitehall (or elswhere) department.
Yes and No, its likely that the break up of infrastructure will entail some expense for BOTH countries. Bring it on!
Secondly, Scotlands armed forces will no longer have to be part of the kid-on world superpower that Britain aims for, so there's a saving right away.
Really, the very worst Scotland could do is to be on the same footing as Ireland, which is no' so bad,
The best would be a second-rate Norway, again, no' so bad!
Of all the arguments against independence for Scotland, by far and away the worst one is, "it can't be done".
Of course it can be done. In fact, it would be a piece of piss to do.
Think of a better argument 💡
Of all the arguments against independence for Scotland, by far and away the worst one is, "it can't be done".
Of course it can be done. In fact, it would be a piece of piss to do.Think of a better argument
Alex Salmond's idea of an 'independant' Scotland seems to be to move the government from London to Brussels.
Also, if I recall correctly in 1603 it was the Scots who took over England, rather than the other way round.
And how many government departments are run from south of the border? You'd need your own:DWP
DVLA
NHS
DEFRA
Army/Navy/Airforce
hmm
DEFRA - many of DEFRA functions in England are devolved in Scotland, so DEFRA is pretty much irrelevant to Scotland..ie Environment Agency is England and Wales thing only. Scotland has SEPA instead...different structure, but much slimmer and answerable to Scottish Govt, Agriculture too is devolved function. Not sure re FSA which I guess is a DEFRA entity of some sort, it may have a UK wide remit.
Similarly Health is a devolved issue, so NHS structure in Scotland (and Wales) is answerable to Scottish Govt and is effectively independent of NHS England.
Similarly Dept of Education (or whatever Balls is calling it these days)..English thing only...nothing to do with Scotland or Wales, it doesn't operate there.
Alex Salmond's idea of an 'independant' Scotland seems to be to move the government from London to Brussels.
A much better anti-independence argument there andrewh
Andrewh, It was one group of toffs who sold out one country (against the wishes of the people-scotland wasn't a democracy) for another.
West Kip, correct. but it was still the Scots taking over England. The English weren't too keen on having a Scottish King at the time...
I'm a republican too, andrewh, so it , to me just highlights the stupidity of that situation. 🙂
Two words to turn any republican; President Blair.
Anyway, back to the OP, what do the English Democrats want? Is is just 'English devolution' as their answer to the West Lothian question or do they favour the disolution of the union?
the latter, as soon as possible, thanks.
Andrew, a republic does not necessarily mean an American style system, and we would never elect a Blair anyway!
From what I've seen, most English people, genuinely, are as unconcerned with improving democracy in the English regions as they are with democratic autonomy for Scotland. Its a non-issue.
Andrewh, go and read up the "rough wooing" It might change your view on the act of union.
Can I just clarify by saying that "I'm not a country-ist but..." and "some of my best friends are English people, why, only last week I talked with an English person who said..."! 😉
Who's going to bail out RBS and HBOS next time if Scotland is independent?
and we would never elect a Blair anyway!
3 times! In a row!
OK, he wasn't president, he just liked to think he was.
Who's going to bail out RBS and HBOS next time if Scotland is independent?
They'll be fine, just like other small northern European countries, like Iceland.
Few folk in Scotland voted positively for Blair, Andrew (as if non-constituents vote for a PM anyway), It was a tiny minority of floating voters in middle England that actually swung his election.
Things haven't gone so great, it's true, for Iceland, or Ireland for that matter, but how many people in those countries are clamouring to be back, ruled by someone else?
Anyhoo, A few years of the tories running things again, and it'll all come out in the wash.
same footing as Ireland, which is no' so bad
Yeap last I heard the Irish economy is booming.
I refer the right-honourable gentleman to the comment I made some moments ago...
have they left yet?
Typical comment from a jambo! 🙂
for Iceland, or Ireland for that matter, but how many people in those countries are clamouring to be back, ruled by someone else?
Iceland seem keen on EU membership again. More so than, say, Switzerland.
Ahh sorry, I was generally just ignoring the opinions of the Scottish. What currency would an independent Scotland choose?
If Scotland becomes independent, will Scots in the UK become "illegal immigrants"?
If so, will our streets be free of aggressive Big Issue sellers in 6 months, and a remarkable lack of dogs on string henceforth?
Well, yeti, that'd be up for us to decide, though we do have our own currency, even if it isn't recognised in English pubs and shops. 😉
Be honest, do you really think you'd be given ALL the oil and gas money for the north sea? National waters extend a few miles offshore, beyond that its fair game (well it would be if nations hadnt agreed already who got what area). [b]Seeing as those treaties were written up as great britain/uk/whatever[/b], the English would have as much claim to (whats left of) the oil and gas as you.
That's factually not true, unfortunately. Ownership/jurisdiction over all the oilfields is settled in legislation and agreements in tedious detail going back decades. There wouldn't be a free for all if Scotland left the UK and there are numerous models for dissolution of assets in previous countries/federations dissolving. It's not legal rocket science.
It's wishful thinking, of course, that Scots would be relaxing in a jacuzzi of oil money as soon as independence came around.
What currency would an independent Scotland choose?
The groat, [i]obviously[/i]. Actually, it could be anything: could continue to use the pouund sterling (!), a new Scottish pound, use the Euro (don't have to join the ECB), use the dollar, use the Swiss franc, use whatever is convenient. There are quite a few countries that don't have their own currencies and use their neighbours' (none are superpowers, I concede, but neither is Scotland): Montenegro, Kosovo, Andorra, Monaco, Liberia, Panama.
If Scotland becomes independent, will Scots in the UK become "illegal immigrants"?
No - most likely at the time of independence the model would be that Scots living in the rest of the UK would be entitled to keep their UK citizenship or acquire Scottish citizenship, and anyone who's currently a UK citizen in Scotland would be allowed to acquire Scottish citizenship. (Don't believe it's likely that in either case acquisition would result in loss of UK citizenship - it's up to HMG but traditionally they haven't been big on cancelling citizenship en masse).
No-one with the slightest credibility is suggesting Scotland would be outside the EU so Scottish citizens would be entitled to live in the UK on that basis (assuming they weren't put on the Polish/Bulgarian accession country scheme, which would be amusing!). But probably in any case in parallel to the EU stuff you would have a UK/Scottish deal on the UK/Irish model anyway - unrestricted immigration, open borders, no discrimination between citizens A and B, service in each other's miitaries allowed, full voting rights...