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Anyone engaged with SjP got anything to share on how it’s been? Considering consolidation and pushing towards equities on a bunch of disparate pensions
Reasonable returns for me. There is a lot of noise about how they allocate fees but the funds I have with them are out performing my pension with Aviva. Really simple set up in types of funds and how they relate to your risk appetite and you can split and switch between various funds as often as you like with no additional fees (must admit, I don't take too much advantage of that).
Their commission/ fees are very high, fund charges very high and they have a terrible reputation in the industry. There are much better options out there. Find yourself a Chartered independent financial adviser and you will do much better.
Their commission/ fees are very high, fund charges very high and they have a terrible reputation in the industry. There are much better options out there. Find yourself a Chartered independent financial adviser and you will do much better.
This.
As someone who's work is Financial Services adjacent I can't see why people would use SJP. Maybe I'm missing something?
Both me and MrsIHN have worked for them in the past. I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
Indeed, I consolidated my money the other way, taking the money I had with them in my employee pension and moving it elsewhere.
If you're proper high net worth and need advice about proper wealth management (like trusts and the like) then maybe. If you're just looking to invest in a pension/ISA etc then not a chance, there's much better and much cheaper elsewhere
I saw this week they're now also sponsoring TV shows on Channel 4/ Sky. Obviously advertising has its place, but it felt a little on the nose for them...
I did use them for a while on recommendation and the advisor I used was a nice guy and gave decent advice, but based on poor performance and his increasingly expensive sports cars I deemed him to be the only one doing well out of the arrangement.
Since moving to a SIPP I’m not o it much more engaged and knowledgeable about investing but my pension has performed light years better than it did with them.
Find yourself a Chartered independent financial adviser and you will do much better.
Doubtful. Unless you’re looking for specific wealth management advice, most people would do better without IFAs than with them.
If *must* use one, find one who charges by the hour. Good luck finding one, I’ve never been able to myself.
What was the appeal of SJP in the first place? I've got two friends who are trying to get away from them (waiting for lock in periods to end)
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!
How much are they charging for this service?
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!
I don’t understand. I’ve only heard of them now as people are saying to avoid, or get their money away from them. What was their USP to attract people? What differentiated them from other investment advisors/managers?
QUOTE "Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are. "
This is pretty much obligatory Due Diligence stuff. I swerved SJP and am glad I did as the more I learnt myself the more I would not touch them with someone else's bargepole and I think IHNs comment; "Both me and MrsIHN have worked for them in the past. I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole." rounds that view off nicely.
Even if they perform OK, they are renowned for high fees and extended (and deliberately complex) lock-in clauses (as per b33k34 comment up thread.)
If you are looking for somewhere good, there seems to be a lot of people pointing towards Unbiased as a way of finding someone that suits you. That said, I learned quickly that you can do most things yourself and save lots of commission. I am saving about 100s per month and am still invested in most of the 'stuff' that my IFA pushed me towards.
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!How much are they charging for this service?
Nothing, it’s presales work.
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!How much are they charging for this service?
Nothing, it’s presales work.
Ok. I’ll rephrase. What is their proposed fee structure if you go with them?
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!How much are they charging for this service?
Nothing, it’s presales work.
Ok. I’ll rephrase. What is their proposed fee structure if you go with them?
that’s a different question, it’s about 2.3% on transfer in.
1.38% per annum I think. As far as I can see no exit fees any more
"2.3% on transfer in.
1.38% per annum"
That's slightly less than I paid to transfer in and a lot more per annum than I am now paying. That last point is important as the transfer in fee is a one-off and the ongoing fee could be applied for decades. I worked out that the ongoing fee could cost me nearly half of my pension pot over time.
Sounds like I need to move my pension for my last 15-20years of paying in. Genuinely, treat me like an idiot as I'm with SJP. Where do I go and not have to think about it again until a lot closer to retiring?
Appeal of them? They’ve done the leg work to see where pensions are and drive a bit of conversion on what our longer term goals are.
This all has some value, doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to get any business out of it mind!How much are they charging for this service?
Nothing, it’s presales work.
Ok. I’ll rephrase. What is their proposed fee structure if you go with them?
that’s a different question, it’s about 2.3% on transfer in.
1.38% per annum I think. As far as I can see no exit fees any more
That’s outrageous. Run.
Sounds like I need to move my pension for my last 15-20years of paying in. Genuinely, treat me like an idiot as I'm with SJP. Where do I go and not have to think about it again until a lot closer to retiring?
Vanguard target retirement 2045 fund if you really don’t want to think about it again.
Vanguard lifestrategy XX% if you want to put a little more thought into it.
that’s a different question, it’s about 2.3% on transfer in.
1.38% per annum I think. As far as I can see no exit fees any more
To be fair, this is better than it used to be, it used to be 5% initial, 1.5% trail, plus the exit fees.
It's still very, very expensive though, and the idea of an initial commission, sorry, 'fee for advice', is mental these days.
Vanguard target retirement 2045 fund if you really don’t want to think about it again.
Vanguard lifestrategy XX% if you want to put a little more thought into it.
This.
To expand on my previous post, there is an inverse correlation between the amount that you pay for financial advice and outcomes. That is, the more you save in upfront and ongoing costs, the more money you will have when you come to retirement.
The financial services industry is an absolute cess pit with products routinely mis-sold to people who will not benefit from them by “advisors” who make a killing from them. There are *some* exceptions to this, but they’re few and far between.
As a financial services professional for 25+ years I have spent quite a bit of time transferring assets away from SJP.
They are the JLR of providers, shiny and appealing to some on the surface, but under the bonnet its junk. Expensive junk.
Vanguard target retirement 2045 fund if you really don’t want to think about it again.
Vanguard lifestrategy XX% if you want to put a little more thought into it.
I'm very much an idiot when it comes to financial stuff, but my wife and I are realising we need to do more than we currently are, which is pretty much bugger all....
How much are we talking about to inverst in these sort of things as a starting point? Does it have to be a lump some or can we add to it? We both have work pensions and some savings but the mortgage will be paid off soon so will be able to put more away, and also parents getting older so there could be lump somes coming our way in the years to come.....
Don't want to derail the thread, but just interested in very basic answers so I can start thinking about it.
Vanguard target retirement 2045 fund
Isn't that sort of a standard 'lifetime strategy' pension that pretty much any of the big pension providers offers? 100% equity switching to bonds and cash gradually over the decade towards your desired retirement age. Vanguard might be the cheapest but there are lots that are under 0.5%
Don't want to derail the thread, but just interested in very basic answers so I can start thinking about it.
If you want to start another thread, then I'll look out for it.
The bottom line, is that I can't advise you as to exactly what to do, and nor should I, because your circumstances are different to mine. However I can reassure you that once I started looking at it for myself, it was nowhere near as complicated as I'd been led to believe.
At the beginning I also felt ashamed, a few of my financial decisions have been a bit reckless in the past, and unlike many of my peers, I haven't got a mortgage that I'm paying off. I also worried that I'd left it too late to start aged 42. As it turns out, that's pretty normal, and knowing what I know now, I realise that it's almost never too late to start sorting these things out and improving our situations.
The answer to your questions are that the minimum investment for Vanguard is £500 as a lump sum, or £100 monthly. You can invest in their funds either through their own platform or others. You can add to them either sporadically or regularly. If it's in an ISA or a SIPP then there are limits to how much you can add on an annual basis. If you're not using your, and your wife's full ISA and pension allowance then you should be using those first, depending on what you want to use the money for.
Isn't that sort of a standard 'lifetime strategy' pension that pretty much any of the big pension providers offers? 100% equity switching to bonds and cash gradually over the decade towards your desired retirement age. Vanguard might be the cheapest but there are lots that are under 0.5%
Yes it is. Their ongoing charge is 0.24%. Over 20 years with significant amounts invested, the difference between 0.24% and 0.5% is significant. But you're right there are other similar competitive funds. One word of warning is that I believer that some of the pension providers offer funds that look similar but have far larger ongoing charges, or other hidden costs. With Vanguard WYSIWYG as that's their whole ethos.
There's an entire industry devoted to making things unnecessarily complicated.
It's simple. They try to make it complicated to (a) scare you off DIY and (b) to trust them with your money and (c) to justify the eye-watering fees and charges.
Pay as much as you can, in, and as early as you can. Leave. Do not tinker. 35 years at gas mark 5 and then open to find a beautifully baked cake.
Make full use of employer matching.
Use as much salary sacrifice as is available.
Know your marginal tax rates, and use them to your advantage in the timing and amount of contributions.
Keep a strong eye on costs, as the impact compounds over the years. Lowest cost SIPP platform (ii, HL, Fidelity perhaps, depending on your circumstances). Lowest cost (<0.25% OCF if possible) fund fees. (your employer will normally mandate using their chosen platform for current pension contributions, which is fair enough, but you should consolidate any older ones and can often partially transfer out of the employer one into your SIPP)
Noone can give advice, particularly as we don't know your full circumstances.
BUT in general:
For the long term, equities are where it's at. In the absence of inside knowledge, a global tracker is (IMHO) the only sensible choice.
If you are nervous / lower risk, then choose one of the many variants of Vanguard lifestyle series funds. They do a 60/40 (Equities /bonds), which seems to be pretty much the go-to, if you're not fully committed to equities.
Remember. The person whose interests are aligned with your own, is you. Only you. Everyone else has a different angle, whether commission, hidden fees, charges etc. Do the research. It's not tricky. Take control. You owe it to your future self to optimise your pension assets.
I work in the industry.
None of this is a secret.
It's mostly a triumph of marketing over simplicity.
There's an entire industry devoted to making things unnecessarily complicated.
It's simple. They try to make it complicated to (a) scare you off DIY and (b) to trust them with your money and (c) to justify the eye-watering fees and charges.
It's mostly a triumph of marketing over simplicity.
This.
Morgan Housel's "Psychology of Money" is a good place to start, although it is US centric, so the specific advice about tax etc doesn't apply.
And my opinion, not advice: when anyone mentions SJP, I run away. Then I run away some more.
They are the pinnacle of marketing. Fancy stationery, offices and slick presentations. Make you feel special, and worthy of their "wealth management" services. Premium, sir. You're clearly an astute individual. Wealthy (or at least you will be, if you come to us).
The reality is / was - catastrophically high exit penalties ("fees"). Huge tie-ins. Industry high levels of ongoing fees and charges. Poor in-house funds, with high internal opaque cost structures. Sales commission driven.
Run away.
Then run away some more.
(in the interests of balance, my parents use them, and there's some sort of fancy deal with the salesman / advisor for a rebate on the fees, but they won't give a clear answer, which to me is a clear signal to run.)
Don't want to derail the thread, but just interested in very basic answers so I can start thinking about it.
You got the key answers already in this thread.
There are also some good (free) online resources. The two that seem to get mentioned the most for someone in the UK are Meaningful Money (a Pro IFA whose main thrust is to tell you that you don't need an IFA) and James Shack who is very analytical in his approach.
Give both of them a try and see if they suit your personality. I stuck with Meaningful Money and I think the Millennials Season is a good starting place for many (don't be out off by the name, its a good all round series covering the key basics)
I also like Damien Talks Money.
And my opinion, not advice: when anyone mentions SJP, I run away. Then I run away some more.
They are the pinnacle of marketing. Fancy stationery, offices and slick presentations. Make you feel special, and worthy of their "wealth management" services. Premium, sir. You're clearly an astute individual. Wealthy (or at least you will be, if you come to us).
The reality is / was - catastrophically high exit penalties ("fees"). Huge tie-ins. Industry high levels of ongoing fees and charges. Poor in-house funds, with high internal opaque cost structures. Sales commission driven.
Run away.
Then run away some more.
As a former SJP employee, I approve this message.
They're also a shambles from an administrative and technological point of view. Well, they were when I left in 2018, and when MrsIHN left in 2021(?), they may have improved since then (but I doubt it)
If you’re considering Vanguard, bear in mind that investing in Vanguard Target Retirement can be cheaper through Interactive Investor - for any pot more than about £80,000 or so the fixed £15.99 monthly fee is cheaper than Vanguards 0.24% which is capped at £375 per year or just over £30 per month. Also with II you can choose for the account fee to be charged separately so it doesn’t come out of the pension pot.
We invested with SJP for years after a recommendation from my accountant, after I had started contracting. With them for about 13 years with a SIPP & ISA for me and ISAs for the wife and kids. After getting curious about fees I finally took the step move everything away from SJP to investment platforms with much lower fees. I dread to think of the money I have lost to paying SJP fees and for nothing really. Anyway, done (mostly now) and feel much better and more in control.
For anyone interested in moving - I moved my SIPP to ii and ISA to Hargreaves Lansdowne (I know the fees are probably higher on HL, I may consolidate later, but it was easier to for me to do it this way). You can't in-species transfer from SJP to these platforms (i.e. move the SJP funds to your new provider). SJP will sell your investments then you move the cash to the new platform. This was simple to do on-line on ii but I could not get it to work online with HL, so phoned them up and they filled out the forms for me. I had some money in SJP property funds which had ceased trading so still have some funds tied up there until they sell the properties and distribute the cash.
In summary, I would highly recommend AVOIDING SJP at all costs. Because it will cost you dearly.
I dread to think of the money I have lost to paying SJP fees and for nothing really.
If it makes you feel any better, I spent my first ten years putting my money into a FTSE100 tracker, so neither got the benefits of diversification, nor particularly good growth. However in the big scheme of things it didn't matter, as early on, contributions matter much more than growth. It's only later that growth starts to have a significant effect.
I think that the lesson for me, is to not let fear of making mistakes put people off. Yes, if you DIY, you'll almost certainly make some mistakes, like I did, but if you do a bit of basic research, you'll come out better than if you did nothing.
it’s about 2.3% on transfer in.
1.38% per annum I think. As far as I can see no exit fees any more
That sounds expensive on both counts.
you can choose for the account fee to be charged separately so it doesn’t come out of the pension pot
So you’d pay the account fee out of net income rather than take advantage of paying it out of gross income+ from the pension pot?
It’s a fair point I guess if you were thinking about tax relief alone you’d pay £12.99 per month more and set it to come out of the pot….if at some point I can be bothered I may do that…!
I'm considering opening a SIPP on invest engine as it's a free platform, and then within that you can buy whatever kind of fund or funds you want.
InvestEngine is great for the free platform although one assumes they’ll start charging for their SIPP at some point.
Bear in mind that at the current time they only really offer ETFs, so you don’t have access to the many and varied global passive and managed funds on offer from the various different providers.
As long as you’re happy with ETFs only it’s all good.
Lowest cost SIPP platform (ii, HL, Fidelity perhaps, depending on your circumstances
If anyone is thinking of opening an ISA SIPP etc with ii then let me know and we can split the referral.
And if you decide on Fidelity it's £100 amazon gift card for each of us if you use
https://fidelity.mention-me.com/m/ol/gs0wx-60dece6f1a
