30p Lee bounce
That Survation poll was taken before Lee Anderson was made Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party.
I doubt many punters know or care who the Chairman of the Conservative Party is, much less who the Deputy Chairman is.
I don't even know what the role of Tory chairman/deputy chairman actually is - what is their role ? Apparently there 4 deputy chairmen and 4 vice chairmen in the Tory Party.
I have no idea what they all do nor how likely they are to affect how well the Tories do in elections.
That shows a boost for remainer parties. There's plenty of room for Labour to move EU-wards to offset that, not so much the Tories.
It shows the LibDems on a lower share of the vote than they received at the last general election, and a boost for Reform UK.
If the previous Survation poll showed the LibDems on 7% that is crazy. Although probably not that surprising.
It shows the LibDems on a lower share of the vote than they received at the last general election, and a boost for Reform UK.
what are their policies on rejoining the EU? asking for a friend.
At the last general election I believe that LibDem EU policy was to remain in the EU without having another referendum.
Which was particularly ironic as the LibDems were the first major UK political party to demand an in-out referendum on EU membership.
I don't know what their policy would be if a snap election was called, LibDem policies don't make the headlines, neither do their politicians. But I guess it would be rejoin without a referendum.
Rachel Reeves isn't half piping out some guff at the moment.
All the Labour front bench are doing a terrible job at talking up the miniscule problems that face us, instead of the bigger picture - like how are you actually going to fix things instead of carrying on failed economic methodology?
For instance Rayner going on about the waste and "tax payer's" money - this is a dead duck. She is now being attacked about her airpods. You fight Tory lines you are attacked on Tory values.
It's a pathetic trap. There are no politics any longer in any party. No ideas or solutions - just the same laboured arguments about tax payer's money.
The Tories are controlling the narrative about migration too - Rayner again with the tagging. What happend to Labour being ont he right side of injustice?
I'm fully expecting Wes Streeting to pop up with private death clinics for murderers soon - offering them tax credits for their work.
The ratio of screaming over the Tories being useless versus the what we might get at the next election is so misguided.
We are utterly trapped with two of the worst options of modern times.
That Survation poll was taken before Lee Anderson was made Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party.
Lee Anderson was already doing the noisy rounds in the minds of the public way before he was made Deputy of pointlessness.
That's said I was mostly pissing around and didn't at all mean he was categorically responsible for a bounce.
Anyone that's interested in economics - and the state of things here is an excellent discussion from some proper progressives with a debate around the financial/fiscal/monetary system. And how it doesn't serve the public good.
Quite long but has got some decent answers to the way we function economically.
Neil Wilson (modelled the entire UK exchequer) is fantastic. His analysis on inflation (rather than CPI) is particularly enlightening.
Currency stuff is interesting too.
I actually think the attack lines over the tories spending public money like water are good ones. Its all about getting removing the perception that the tories are safe hands on the economy / cut waste / look after public money. I think we will see more of this especially during the campaign. Its a good political tool along with all the crony capitalism of giving money to their mates for non existent PPE and appointing cronies for favours.
its about setting a tone / getting something accepted into the public consciousness. for too long the tories have been seen as more trustworthy with public finances than labour even tho that perception has been wrong
Agreed. And why would you want to go into an election without highlighting where money has been going under this government, and where it will go instead if a new government is elected?
🤷🏻♂️
So, with Sturgeon stepping down, are some Scottish voters going to migrate to Labour?
It's being mentioned a a possibility by some on the news.
Thoughts?
No significant numbers IMO
Last time I looked at the polls all the movement to labour was from the tories. Labour are fighting over the unionist brexiteer vote. Very few SNP voters will move to labour while they are brexiteers
I actually think should they choose the right leader this could lead to an increase in SNP vote. Sturgeon as she said has become a polarising figure.
I think that the SNP leadership contest might harm their polls, depending on how deep any fault lines in the party it exposes are. If that happens then I'd much prefer their lost votes go to Labour than the Tories.
Good result for the Winchester College educated candidate but I thought Starmer was supposed to be bringing the Jewish vote flocking back to Labour, or are we still blaming Corbyn?
Labour did increase its share of the vote by 3% but the Tories also increased their share of the vote, albeit by 1.6%. Surprising considering the huge Labour lead nationally and the fact that London is Labour's greatest stronghold.
Obviously a tiny electorate and a tiny turnout, and imo the Jewish angle, despite the Jewish Chronicle's obvious interest and Starmer's obsession on the issue, is totally irrelevant. As far as I am concerned Jewish voters are just voters like everyone else, but if Labour had won the seat from the Tories you can be certain that Labour right-wingers would be creating a song and dance about how under Starmer, and his battle against alledged anti-Semitism, the Jewish vote had returned to Labour.
The turnout in the election for the vacant Barnet Borough Council seat was 27.2 per cent.
That's the most significant number AFAIC.
It’s one of those seats that’s so safely Tory, people don’t bother voting. The kind of thing that happens all over the country (for different parties).
The Conservative win and the lack of change are easily explained: Golders Green has been a Conservative stronghold for decades due to the ingrained loyalty of many of its Orthodox Jewish voters who identify with long-standing Tory themes about Thatcherite economics, conservative social values, patriotism and support for Israel. Labour does not have much of an “in” with this community as it does in more liberal Jewish areas like Finchley and Hampstead.
Golders Green has been a Conservative stronghold for decades due to the ingrained loyalty of many of its Orthodox Jewish voters who identify with long-standing Tory themes about Thatcherite economics, conservative social values, patriotism and support for Israel.
A comment like that would likely get a Labour Party member suspended if not kicked out of Starmer's party. Pointing out "the ingrained loyalty" of many Jewish voters to the Zionist state, Israel, and to "Thatcherite economics" would definitely lead to accusations of anti-Semitism.
Well if the comment was made by a left-winger obviously.
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Is it just me or is Starmer is getting a bit bored? His speech this morning was very lacklustre, and his stated 5 'missions' a load of woolly 'we'll make everything better' rhetoric. We know he wants to make everything better, what we want to know is how, and still after all this time and in the runup to an election, he still doesn't seem to have many new ideas. 🤷♂️
Yeah, Bring back Boris and his amusing antics 🙄
It is all a bit motherhood and apple pie. I'm just glad that Green Energy and the NHS are both right up there as headlines. Yes, they're both no brainers, and yes they are both something a Tory government could also commit to... but they haven't delivered nearly enough in either area, to put it mildly, and the fall out from them failing to do so is _______ all around us. They need to go. We need to be rid of them.
https://labour.org.uk/missions/
'Improve the NHS' = more Streeting-led privatisation
'Improve education': would any party pledge the opposite?
'Economic growth' = nothing about redistribution or fair pay but 'we are the party of business' ie more trickle down fallacies
My word, with such an open goal, it's just vacuous verbiage.
He's not even bothering to deny that he's ditched the basis upon which he was elected.
Three years is a long time. Probably still another two to go. He's moved a long way for sure. Might have always meant to... the charge will be that anyway from those on left of the party annoyed about how he has been pathing the way towards a possible Labour government.
moved a long way for sure
I don't think he's moved at all.
Starmer has just definitively turned the page on his human rights legal career with a u-turn on Shamima Begum.
He's gone from Labour light to Tory light to full on authoritarian ****.
I'm beginning to detest him more than the Tories. The Tories were always the nasty party but to be on the side of right and good then sell your soul to Tory think seems even worse.
The clip Ed is on about...
https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1628666086785961984?s=20
As I said in the other thread... he may well be technically right about the courts taking the “right decision”… they probably did given the law. It was Javid’s decision that was wrong, and this government is wrong to stick to it, and the Labour leader should be saying so... not defending the government decision on "national security grounds"... the UK can do better than that... we expect the rest of the world to.
I liked that he's recycled some of that nice Mr Blairs old catchphrases.
I used to like those. They were very reassuring
They used to be good at snappy, catchy slogans, the Labour Party, but then they started engraving pledges on stones and stuff like that and its been all downhill since then.
The Tories have definitely seized the initiative on 3 word slogans, but I feel that with our constantly reduced attention spans due to Instagram and Love Island, Labour should experiment with one word slogans.
Maybe they could do massive billboards with a picture of Dominic Raab and just the word ****! on it? Or possibly just dispense with the word and bombard peoples social media feeds with an angry emoji above a picture of Theresa Coffey eating a turnip? 😡
Just stick the NHS logo on the side of a bus. Job jobbed.
He should have gone full gammon and said that she should face the full force of world beating British law and if guilty bang her up forever and throw away the keys.
If innocent of course , she can toddle off and live her life.
My word, with such an open goal, it’s just vacuous verbiage.
Yup. At a time where he should be hammering home his advantage with some eye-opening policies he's doing the very opposite. The poll lead means the voters are as receptive as they're ever going to be to new ideas and policies on the radical side of the spectrum, but instead it appears to be breeding quite a bit of complacency. On this evidence we can 'look forward' to a Starmer govt looking very much like Sunak's: Technocratic, aloof, restrained, and spending most of its time telling us why they can't do the things everyone wants.
saw it live and direct and he's a more engaging IRL.....not much mind 🙂
but that doesnt bother me, I was safe and boring after the crazy ghost train ride the Tories have given us.
Anything is better than the Tories, but jeez, I'm even more underwhelmed and disappointed after today.
Anything is better than the Tories
Blair proved that wasn't necessarily so.
I am very much looking forward to life after the next general election. The whole dynamics will certainly be very different, even if not much else is.
This thread will be particularly interesting.
Kier is doing his best Harry Kane impression - he’s got an open goal for the election but you can’t help feeling he’s going to hoof it into row Z in the last minute of extra time! 🤣
This thread will be particularly interesting.
If you mean that any short comings of a Labour government (if there is one) will be picked on and picked over by people who want the current shower of a government out… then you’re bang on. They won’t get a free ride just because they win (if they win), they’ll be watched and criticised at every turn. As it should be.
Just popping into the wrong thread because it's all totally fatiguing these days - to say Truss's laughable and made up fiscal hole has now turned into a Tory surplus.
An absolute mockery of classic economic understanding.
Honestly they're all full of shit when it comes to government finances.
And it is simply this as a starting point that is creating havoc with the economy. Government doesn't spend - then it's downhill there's no way around it.
Recessions follow surpluses because you've deleted money from the economy. Ask Clinton.
I’m beginning to detest him more than the Tories. The Tories were always the nasty party but to be on the side of right and good then sell your soul to Tory think seems even worse.
I'm totally with you. You get what you expect with Tories. Everyone should never be surprised but somehow it creates pages of centrist anger.
Starmer just gets worse every time he opens his stupid mouth.
Oh and the Fed are still hawkish and acting shocked when interest rates rises are having the opposite desired effect to inflation. I.e it's ticking back up and driving money around the finance sector.
You get what you expect with Tories. Everyone should never be surprised but somehow it creates pages of centrist anger.
…yet… you came to this thread to post your take on the Tories and their handling of the economy and explanation of it.
[ I agree with your points by the way, but the weird idea that only “centrists” are angry with what the Tories have been inflicting on us, and are writing about it… an odd one. We’re all angry… and that “we” is getting bigger all the time. The “everyone else is a centrist” attitude is getting old fast. ]
weird idea that only “centrists” are angry with what the Tories have been inflicting on us.......We’re all angry…
I'm not, and I totally get rone's point. Tory politicians don't make me angry, because they simply behave exactly how I would expect them to behave. Tories being Tories is no shocker to me.
It is people who don't behave how I would expect them to behave who are likely to make me feel angry.
One of the reasons that I don't feel particularly angry with Starmer is because I expect very little from him.
On the other hand if Mick Lynch was to start acting like an arsehole that would really piss me off. Obviously.
weird idea that only “centrists” are angry with what the Tories have been inflicting on us…….We’re all angry…
You see I prefer to be angry at neoliberalism. That infers i don't support that ideology. Irrespective of its mouthpiece.
However the difference with centrists is that they accept (more or less) neoliberalism - they would argue it just needs to be done by 'grown-ups.
It's important to draw a distinction between what a Tory is and what neoliberalism is. Because Labour can and will fulfill the latter.
That's why centrists annoy the **** out of me.
Guardian columns are full of centrists being annoyed at Tories they indirectly supported. And then shocked at the outcome.
That's bone-headed.
I still hate Tories Kelvin and still join in the but there is definitely a Guardian powered shock factor displayed most days.
Tories have never been about hope for me, they've always destroyed everything. Being front and centre in a pit village.
Labour were about hope.
That's why they're disappointing currently, and for a few weeks in 2017 - positivity was in the air - whilst every Binners type, Poly Toynbee, Freedland etc were digging into Corbyn. And now they are all appalled a the right-wing mess that lay before us!
Give me a break.
Centrism took Brexit and made it the single issue rather than looking at 40 years of shit that right-wing governments had laid before us.
Guardian columns are full of centrists being annoyed at Tories they indirectly supported. And then shocked at the outcome.
It is similar on here. Those who express their hatred for the Tories the most seem to be the same people who want the Labour Party to be more like the Tories.
You can't win elections if you are not more like the Tories..blah...blah...blah
Just join the Tory Party if the only thing that matters is winning elections.
It is similar on here. Those who express their hatred for the Tories the most seem to be the same people who want the Labour Party to be more like the Tories.
You can’t win elections if you are not more like the Tories..blah…blah…blah
Just join the Tory Party if the only thing that matters is winning elections
Well they're going to get what they want again - and be shocked when it doesn't work how they think.
Lol it funny how Tories win elections by being mean as **** but Labour can't currently string a robust argument for counter policies in this climate - which would make so much difference to so many lives.
I'm ****ing embarrassed by the state of things.
Just join the Tory Party if the only thing that matters is winning elections.
Lmfao. Yeah just join the winning side - if ideology is a waste of time.
I mean we all knew Truss was pushing the boat out but this ridiculous idea that she's responsible for crashing the economy and lifting interest rates is a flat out distortion of everything that happened.
You know what happens when a fiat currency drops? It gets bought back up again but apparently she crashed the 'economy' for it to be impossible to recover.
Seriously stop. The UK has massive real structural economic issues that need fixing but it's currency ramping up and down is not one of them.
This didn't stop Marina Purkiss, Ian Dunt and all that lot claiming Truss had crashed the economy and made mortgages more expensive (wtf they never heard of monetary policy?)
Hey Centrists the real economy has been dying on its low wage arse for years but I'm guessing your house price inflated and your career has been great.
These people still think Starmer is god.
Right-wingers the lot of them.