[Closed] Simple Photoshop CS5 question...

Simon: do yourself a favour and leave the default key assignments, because sooner or later you'll be reading a Photoshop tutorial or book and it will be saying "Press L, then Ctrl-Z, then P" and you'll be left trying to decodr what they are on about.

By the way, Digital Photo magazine is quite good at giving step by step instructions for various PS stuff.

because sooner or later you'll be reading a Photoshop tutorial or book

😀

To be fair MrSmith, some of the interface stuff is pretty clunky and unintuitive, as Simon has rightly pointed out.
And several other bits are based on historical film metaphors that no longer make much sense to modern photographers (e.g. not many digital photographers would bother with a Warming Filter these days, and if you've never touched film then dodging and burning isn't going to be obvious either).

Photoshop sells because it is very powerful, is pretty much industry standard, and doesn't really have any close rivals.

But that doesn't mean it is perfect or beyond criticism.

nobody said it was easy to learn or beyond criticism, if it was perfect they wouldn't keep releasing new versions.
complicated things aren't picked up in a day. you only have to look at the list of shortcuts to see it's a very comprihensive program. the trick is to learn which areas you use the most and learn the shortcuts (for me paths/masks/colour correction/cloning/layer blending modes). once you do this there is not much interface to deal with as changing tools is done with the keyboard and you only use the layers pallete. i usually work without the tools palette shown as it's not really needed.
as for historical film metaphors? that's crap. light is light, colour is colour. these things don't change. if you wish you can delsve into LAB or CMYK for a different way of working with colour.
talk to any decent working photographer/D.O.P and the language is the same, you still need to know what an FL-D is and what a 20-green is used for.
"modern" photographers don't use filters? all the professionals i know still do as balancing mixed lighting is better done on set (if possible) than on system.
dodging and burning not obvious? i guess if you were visually unaware but even a basic grasp of what the tools do by clicking in an image to see what effect they have is going to make you realise the possibilities.

the thing is this thread isn't about that. Simon wanted advice and several people on here who have lots of working experience offered suggestions and reasons why the program works in certain ways. only for it all to fall on deaf ears as simon knows best.

i only kept posting as i was sent a mail informing me that SFB was an argumentative tosspot and not really having any previous experience of his antics i decided to give him the benefit of the doubt (for the first page)
however it soon turned into a wager to get 5 pages of STW angst.
i don't think it was worth just a pint though. 🙂

this will create custom toolbars, which is a start 🙂
[img] [/img]

though you need version 2 for CS5 which isn't ready yet...
[despite a certain user of 15 years who told me this wasn't possible - yes PaddedTakaFred]

Yunki: not sure what you mean

no no... no eyedropper.. need the whole colour scheme picked up and mapped... maybe replacing shade or tone like for like?.. hmm

like you might see in 3d wire mesh generator type stuff I imagine..

Sorry to jump in at the end of a long thread, but I agree that Photoshop's user interface is pants. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to learn to use it, and given up. Thankfully I don't need to use it for my job.
I don't think it's just me, I've used a few CAD packages, FEA, CFD; all of which you can't learn in a few minutes, but helped by at least a reasonable user interface.

"modern" photographers don't use filters? all the professionals i know still do as balancing
mixed lighting is better done on set (if
possible) than on system.

Really? Fair enough then i stand corrected.

Curious though: What gain is there in a putting a warming filter on the lens to fool the automatic white balance, rather than just setting the white balance to what you need?
Gels on lights I understand as that lets you mix different lights, but not lens filters.

dodging and burning not obvious? i guess if
you were visually unaware but even a basic
grasp of what the tools do by clicking in an image to see what effect they have is going to
make you realise the possibilities.

Yes the effect becomes apparent when you use them, but they simulate darkroom techniques that many all digital users will know nothing about - hence the odd names and icons: a metal shape on a bit of wire for blocking light during developing (dodge); a hand for only allowing light to fall on one part of print (burn); and a sponge used for soaking up paint on a watercolour!

As UI metaphors go they probably make about as much sense these days as the continued use of a Floppy Disk icon to indicate saving!

i only kept posting as i was sent a mail
informing me that SFB was an argumentative
tosspot

Nice to know Fred/Talkemada is still watching 🙂

yunki, not sure exactly what you want to do or what version you have.

Swatches can be loaded/saved replaced in the swatches panel.
Psd can be colourised in hue and saturation (command u) select colourize
Match colour in the image > adjustments menu
color overlay in blending options

hth

and it will be saying "Press L, then Ctrl-Z, then P" and you'll be left trying to decodr what they are on about.

I use the keyboard for text entry only (and perhaps copy/paste). This not 1984. The only way I would remember any other shortcuts would be if I had invented them.

There isn't much call for text entry in Photoshop but some keyboard shortcuts you will use a LOT (i.e. try holding space).

You could always get a photoshop keyboard to remind you where they all are.

[img] [/img]

luckily, adobe made it easy to remember, although you can change if its not obvious
b = brush
v=move tool
m=marquee
c=crop
e=eraser
p=pen
t=text

🙂

You could always get a photoshop keyboard to remind you where they all are

I want to look at the screen when manipulating visual things

luckily, adobe made it easy to remember, although you can change if its not obvious

like:
auto tone = shift+ctrl+L
auto contrast = alt+shift+ctrl+L (try pressing THAT, ow!)
auto color = shift+ctrl+B
very obvious I'm sure...
etc etc

Perhaps a direct synaptic link then?

Perhaps a direct synaptic link then?

I'm thinking that and cameras to follow the eyeballs would be a good idea, but until then I'm going to try a pen and tablet as suggested last night 🙂 Also once Configurator 2 is out I can add my own buttons...

change the shortcuts then.

once you do this there is not much interface to deal with as changing tools is done with the keyboard and you only use the layers pallete. i usually work without the tools palette shown as it's not really needed.

of course, you may choose to work in that legacy manner, but many of us like visual things we can click without looking away from the screen. Also due to a biking injury 3 of the fingers on my left hand lack the dexterity needed to hold down arcane key combinations, were I even willing to try

talk to any decent working photographer/D.O.P and the language is the same, you still need to know what an FL-D is and what a 20-green is used for.

that squarely places me in the ranks of the indecent photographers as I have no idea what they are! Are you suggesting that one can only take decent photos if one knows the history of photography ?

all the professionals i know still do as balancing mixed lighting is better done on set

unfortunately carrying a spare sun is heavy and tends to melt things

Simon wanted advice and several people on here who have lots of working experience offered suggestions and reasons why the program works in certain ways.

apparently based on a lack of understanding of how programming (rather than Photoshopping) works. Just because things used to be done one way does not mean such methods are set in stone for ever and a day. New metaphors are constantly invented which supplant less intuitive or convenient ones.

i only kept posting as i was sent a mail informing me that SFB was an argumentative tosspot

if you need an email to tell you that you've obviously not been paying attention 🙂

Only you could make a thread about PS amusing, Simon....

Infinity plus one!!!!

Only you could make a thread about PS amusing, Simon....

on the contrary it's the mass rush to defend the flawed PS status quo that I found so funny, but that may just be my lack of cognitive ability 🙁

When it comes to post processing skills, there are 2 levels:
a) photographic
recognising a good photo, selecting a composition and crop, recognising what corrections are needed - these are essentially timeless, barring possibly significant advances in the hardware
b) implementational
once upon a time mixing chemicals, paper grade selection, dodging and burning etc, now accomodating the quirks and complex metaphors of photo editors - these are transitory and usually inconvenient, as programs and abstractions come and go, hopefully to be eventually replaced with artificial intelligence mimicking the abilities of Ansel Adams etc

Ah... Now it all makes sense!

You just need to find that illusive 4th chord!

Try Em7 🙄

YYYEEEESSSS!

And one more post makes 6!

I just discovered that by default, the maximum number of undo steps is 20 🙁

But that's okay because you're using Adjustment Layers, so yoi don't need a huge Undo history?

But that's okay because you're using Adjustment Layers

does the clone stamp have its own layer thingy too ? 20 steps would have made sense when storage was on floppy discs but I have 228GB on my system drive. Needless to say, the setting is hidden under "performance" which the naive user might not associate with undo...

You can clone onto a separate layer and do it that way.
Makes it easier to remove cloned bits etc.

You can clone onto a separate layer and it that way

how ?

Mmm not got it in front of me but don't you just create a new layer and set it to be active?

When you set the source of your clone you can either switch to the layer you require to sample or tick the box (something like sample from all layers?)

Here you go simon:
http://www.lunacore.com/photoshop/tutorials/tut013_3.htm

cheers 🙂 A powerful technique!

OK, next, how can I choose the clone stamp source without pressing the ALT key ? I don't want to look away from the screen. In Paintshop Pro it's a right click...

I thought you were a programmer simon, surely you can find the Alt key without actually looking at the keyboard?

Not sure there is a way to do it with the default setup, but then I'm not clavieraphobic like yourself so I've never looked.

I thought you were a programmer simon

to date (ie in 25+ years) the ALT key has mainly featured in:
a) CTRL-ALT-DEL to break in
b) getting obscure foreign characters

surely you can find the Alt key without actually looking at the keyboard?

I tried but 50% of the time I get the space bar instead 🙁 I had not imagined that in 2010 one of the "skills" required would be finding a non-touch, non-graphic button on a 40 year old input device. Paper tape anyone ?

I'm sure if you have a nice fancy mouse (a 30 year old input device) with extra buttons on it then you can just assign one of them to Alt if glancing down is such a major blocker for you.

Failing that simply blu-tack a small drawing pin to the Alt key so you can find it by touch.

Perhaps:

[img] [/img]

Hey, another great idea! I stuck a sequin that fell off my g/f's tights onto the keyboard under the ALT key 🙂

OK next, at Takafred's suggestion, I have a Wacom Bamboo Tablet, and while desperately trying to make it do something, I rotated the whole image by 10 degrees. No amount of undo will make it go straight 🙁

Odd. Not sure how you managed that one. What actions appeared in the History window?

With regard to history, you can change the max number of undo's in the preferences pane, but you could always create history snapshots, which is essentially a history of histories (also useful for the history brush!)

...oh... and with the clone tool (or any other 'select origin" tool ie healing tool) if you turn on the caps lock, it gives you a 'precise' cursor, and not one the size of yor current brush. Much more accurate!

Caps Lock?

But that's another key to press. You'll make him dizzy 😉

, I rotated the whole image by 10 degrees. No amount of undo will make it go straight

Not sure how you managed that one. What actions appeared in the History window?

none. I think what happened is my 2 finger open was slightly skewed so it decided it was a rotate and turned the entire viewport (in 10 or 15 degree steps). It's not clear to me what this is for.

and with the clone tool (or any other 'select origin" tool ie healing tool) if you turn on the caps lock, it gives you a 'precise' cursor, and not one the size of yor current brush.

Thanks, that's a fantastic tip! It's rubbish when the brush hides the stuff under it, particularly if you're using pressure sensing where you have to make it BIG and allow the pressure to modulate its size...

But that's another key to press. You'll make him dizzy

not to mention its effect on every other application - a totally dumbass and counterintuitive misuse of the keyboard!

I found lots of references to the rotation problem and found a plugin to disable unintentional canvas rotation (Mac only):
[url= http://www.photoshopsupport.com/photoshop-blog/09/cs4-02/macbook-gestures-trackpad-photoshop-plugin.html ]linky[/url]