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Are you aware of the study where they fed volunteers 1000 calories a day with either 90% carbs, 90% fat or 90% protein? Guess what happened?
The protein eater's SKY+ failed to series link record Midsomer Murders?
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I'm not trying to argue with you Molgrips, just presenting a slightly different view.
I expect what happened in the study was that they all lost weight, but the carb group lost the least. Both the fat and protein group would have been in ketosis though, unlike on the idave.
You're right cooked rice isn't overly calorie dense by weight, neither is pasta, the point is that it is a food it is very easy to overeat by accident.
I'm not trying to argue with you Molgrips, just presenting a slightly different view
Sorry, don't mean to sound confrontational.. I appreciate the discussion 🙂
The carb group in the study actually gained weight. On 1000 calories a day!
On the subject of satiety, I've found some strange effects. I seem to be able to eat tons of beany stuff and not feel full at all, but I also feel less hungry during the day *even if I don't eat much*. It's werid. My appetite is much more stable which I suppose goes along with the insulin theories.
The carb group in the study actually gained weight. On 1000 calories a day!
Thing is, that would be water weight. Y'know...the thing you will gain back once you return to a higher carb based diet.
Thing is, that would be water weight.
I think they actually measured fat although I am not sure. Being sports scientists and stuff.
I do feel for those people who genuinely struggle with their weight due to health reasons, but walk down any high street and what percentage of those overweight would that be?
I'm about a stone overweight at the moment but should shift that soon(ish). The reason I'm overweight is because I eat too much convenience food, drink too much beer, and don't take enough exercise. It's not my glands (sp?), my mental health, or my lack of positive mental attitude - it's because I sit on my arse all day at a desk and am currently too lazy to go for a run at lunchtime or ride in the evening.
Whilst in town last week I ventured into MacDonalds for a cheeseburger, I go there perhaps twice a year and am always stunned at the amount of parents in there with young children eating happy meals. Pretty much all of them are overweight.
I've noticed that as I've got older I've become more aware of what I eat and the benefits a good diet can have, this is something I never learnt as a child but I have friends who did and they are generally fit and healthy and don't struggle with weight.
Most people don't understand the need for a healthy diet (see Jamie's school dinners from a while ago). I also believe the politically correct mandate of being overly kind and understanding to fat people removes the social pressure to resist that extra pie with your chips. The fat kid at school always used to get called fattie/chunk/etc, then all of a sudden he'd lost weight and was looking healthy. I don't recall anyone at my school having gastric bands fitted.
My kids are too young to understand at the moment, but hopefully they'll grow up understanding why they eat more fruit and veg than chocolate or burgers. Fortunately they appear to be developing their mothers less bigoted and opinionated nature 🙂
If i get fat and need a gastric band, I'm blaming you lot.
Went out to get lunch and before I knew it I was queuing up in Burgerking.
It must have been all this talk of junk food.
Does adding onion rings count as a side salad?
I'm pretty sure onion rings are part of your 5 a day.
binners - Memberthis fact comes from the Bagpuss 'If no-one sees you eating it doesn't count' book of diet tips
Is that the book that also maintains that you can eat what you like, but if you drink a Diet Coke at the same time it actually reduces the calories being taken in?
Yes indeed or finish off every meal with a Muller Light they dissolve all the calories in your food...
I think they actually measured fat although I am not sure. Being sports scientists and stuff.
Link to study?
bagpuss you forgot that food that doesnt say how many calories it contains on a label doesnt have any calories at all.... the supermarket bakery sections are great for finding zero calorie foods 😀
molgrips - MembeThe carb group in the study actually gained weight. On 1000 calories a day!
completely impossible.
I'm pretty sure onion rings count. Also: Don't Whoppers have both lettuce and tomato on? There you go then. You're virtually in 'health food' territory there already.
Glass of wine tonight and the grapes in there count too. You've accounted for 4 out of your 5 today already. You smug bastard! 😀
I'm about a stone overweight at the moment
That is a) extremely common and b) not really counting towards this debate.
This is about the morbidly obese, surely?
Oh and Lil Grips eats happy meals.
completely impossible.
Hehe. This is going to be good!
It was a peer reviewed scientific study TJ, the kind of which you are so fond!
It was a peer reviewed scientific study TJ, the kind of which you are so fond!
Sorry, I should speak up.
LINK PLEASE.
Just spend 5 mins searching, I think it was linked to on here but I can't find it.
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Just spend 5 mins searching, I think it was linked to on here but I can't find it.
Reference a study, then when asked to provide background insist others find it for themselves.
I like the cut of your jib Mr Grips.
Another reference to it:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-253461.html
But still can't find the original paper - seems like the research was done in 1956 which makes it a bit less likely to take into account current thinking.. 🙂
What's that cat smiling at?
It's Friday tomorrow which means free crispycreme doughnuts at work...I think I'll go for an apple filled one - the healthy option.
no idea... i'm guessing "link" is a computer game person or something... just typed in "link" to google image search and my first choice of a dog dressed up as this character didnt work so found that delightful looking chap lower down in the results.
This is about the morbidly obese, surely?
Fair point. What I was trying to say is that if I (and most people) take responsibility for my weight then those who are morbidly obese should be able to also and deal with it without the need for surgery. With the exception of those suffering from some kind of clinical problem of course.
Seems to me there's a bandwagon that many have jumped on because it's easier than accepting responsibility for their own actions.
Oh and Lil Grips eats happy meals.
No doubt, but how many and how often?
those who are morbidly obese should be able to also
Should, yes. But some people are messed up. Therapy should indeed better than surgery tho...
Re happy meals - anything from one per week to months without. Bits of chicken, some fruit and some OJ.
It's the fries that are the killer in McDs.
Molgrips - I do hope they're not given to lilgrips as a reward and part of treat days out etc.
No. They are eaten when Mrs Grips has to eat (or be sick) and it's the only place nearby. Or when we're out and about on Sundays when everything else is closed.
Getting well sick of it now though so more picnics might be in order.
no idea... i'm guessing "link" is a computer game person or something.
Link is the main character in [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_(The_Legend_of_Zelda) ]Zelda[/url] FFS!
😉
I did a quick search on google scholar.
There are loads of published peer reviewed studies about diet comparisons. Most of them have contradictory conclusions.
You can find a peer reviewed published study to prove pretty much anything, especially if you only read the synopsis, cut from that and draw parallels to situations not actually tested within the study implying that it somehow supports them.
I found a study that said: low carb, non-calorie restricted diets appear to be at least as effective as a low fat calorie restricted diets over 1 year.
Note, "at least as effective", not "more effective". The results were broadly the same, just a different route of getting there.
Of course back in the real world where actions aren't as controlled as they are in a study, the most successful diet will be the one that works (not necessarily that works best), and is easiest to stick to. Not the one proven most effective by a tightly controlled clinical trial.
I strongly suspect that this is where the idave diet succeeds. It works well, and because it makes your food choices for you it is relatively easy to stick to. It is easier to avoid a "bad" food group altogether than it is to eat it in moderation, that is just human nature.
From personal experience I believe the role of insulin is critical, and this is what iDave is meant to be about.
From personal experience I believe the role of insulin is critical, and this is what iDave is meant to be about.
I agree. But why is it critical? I think a big part of it is that controlling insulin levels has an effect on saiety and stabilises energy levels, making it easier to stick with the diet more consistently. In weight loss consistency is the MOST important thing.
sorry jamie. my experience of computer games consists of watching friends play mario and golden eye on the n64 (and earlier consoles) then a massive gap until mariokart on the wii. never owned a console other than a wii.
Zelda appear on the NES, SNES, N64, WII, DS, DSi, 3DS, Gameboy and Gameboy Colour, so i'm still leaving you on the naughty step Phil.
Ah, Legend of Zelda on the Snes. Those were the days.
of my top 5 greatest computer games ever, 3 were on the SNES:
Streetfighter 2 (SNES)
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Legend of Zelda (SNES)
Halo (Xbox)
Rainbow Six Vegas (Xbox360)
From wiki:
Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, [b]and fat tissue[/b] to take up glucose from the blood
Insulin stops the use of fat as an energy source by inhibiting the release of glucagon
Two types of tissues are most strongly influenced by insulin, as far as the stimulation of glucose uptake is concerned: muscle cells (myocytes) and [b]fat cells [/b](adipocytes). The former are important because of their central role in movement, breathing, circulation, etc., and the latter because they accumulate excess food energy against future needs.
Increased levels of insuling result in (amongst a ton of other things):
Increased fatty acid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
From that, lots of insulin sloshing around your blood to deal with all the blood sugar spikes would be bad news. That seems to fit exactly with my experiences.. I'd ride, get very hungry and run down, then eat to enable further exercise, seemingly bypassing fat burning completely.
shut up roadie 😛 (EDIT - aimed at jamie)
Ocarina of Time on the N64 is one of my favourite games of all time.
I get all misty eyed and nostalgic just thinking about it....*sniff*
shut up roadie (EDIT - aimed at jamie)
Too late. Molgrips has already taken offence.
There used to be a girlie on the Forum (her name escapes me), she was new to mtb'ing, went to a trail centre and was ridiculed by other riders because of her size. She was writing a blog, and it was certainly well-written, about her progress both with her mtb'ing and her weight loss.
Can anyone remember her name or, indeed, what happened to her?
Dunno, but I was on the BR forum and there was a chap looking for a large 2nd bike in the classifieds. In his signature he said something about a weight loss mission, and then the fact he'd lost about 25 stone since 2007! Fair effort
Oh yeah, she was a nice lass.
Dunno, but I was on the BR forum and there was a chap looking for a large 2nd bike in the classifieds. In his signature he said something about a weight loss mission, and then the fact he'd lost about 25 stone since 2007! Fair effort
That's the amazing shrinking Gaz. He frequents the commute forum over there. Inspirational guy.
stoopid double post.
There used to be a girlie on the Forum (her name escapes me), she was new to mtb'ing, went to a trail centre and was ridiculed by other riders because of her size.
What a bunch of callous ****ers. Poor show indeed.
Damn you Jamie, you're good!
I was just typing lou somthing!
Hey, well done Jamie! Thanks. 8)
Glad she is still going, someone should get her back on here 🙂
Don't Whoppers have both lettuce and tomato on? There you go then. You're virtually in 'health food' territory there already.
And what about a nice juicy kebab? Loads of salad practically negates any fayt content. All your dietary requirements in one neat easily obtained package.
And if you look around, you can find nice healthy nutritious wheaty beer, which is actually good for you. Medically proven.
This is a raspberry wheat beer. Contains fruit and wheat. How can it not be healthy?
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Mmm. Like a liquid jam sandwich....
I'm convinced that kebabs are an overlooked diet wonder food.
A shish kebab contains fresh grilled chicken, a large helping of sliced cabbage, lettuce, onions and tomatoes, chilli sauce and pitta bread.
The only fattening bit there is the pitta bread!
Although too much chilli sauce isn't good for your stomach!
If you ignore donor kebabs then it must be good for you!
McHamish, you sound like my GF after a night out, we always argue over Kebab or Chips!!
Chicken Shish kebab is health food.
As you say McHamish, it's just grilled chicken and salad in a pitta bread.
Doner kebabs, not so much.
I was listening to Ann Diamond on R2 the other morning . She went abroad ( Belgium iirc ) to have a gastric band fitted .
This was to escape the paps over here who love to target TV celebs / personalities. Unfortunately for her she was recognised and the story got out and was splashed all over the papers .
This got me thinking about gastric band ops . She clearly is no chav scum dimwit who eats a pack of digestives for elevenses . I put her considerable weight gain down to restaurant eating .
Restaurant food is cooked to taste the best it possibly can, there are very often no healthy low fat options at all. Add in the fact that what you are eating tastes very good, and was possibly quite expensive you will hoover the lot up .
Eating out might also be a four course affair , with wine and spirits . Probably very easy to eat 1000+ cals in an hour or so. You dont have to do this very often to become a porker .
I have 3 friends who are clinically obese on the BMI chart 17 , 18 and 21 stone . They try and do ' exercise' twice a week , either a swim or a jog, both lasts about 30 mins . Immediatly after this massive workout its straight into the cafe for breaky, or a restaurant for tea. They sit there and much their way through a massive curry all smug because they have 'earned ' their Butter Chicken . I try to tell them they have only burnt 200 - 300 caloris but its pointless.
To top it all i was told i was mad and stupid for wanting to lose 8lb to drop me to 12 stone.
Its not just poor , uneducated chavs who have food issues , tho it may be the majority
I was listening to Ann Diamond on R2 the other morning
Why? Are no other radio stations available?? 😯
My fave kebab house, Mangal Ocabashi in Dalston, does a fantastic lamb kebab, with big chunks of fresh, lean, tender grilled meat. Can't imagine owt more healthy, really. And a darn sight more tasty than some flipping Mung beans or rabbit food.
I've just done some weights, so I've'earned' a bag of Haribo Tangfastics. 😀
85kg this morning..!
" I was listening to Ann Diamond being interviewed by Jeremy Vine on R2 the other morning "
Better?
Anyway , we play popmaster in the morning . Makes our day it does.
[i]so I've'earned' a bag of Haribo Tangfastics.[/i]
Oh, can I have a cherry?
No, cos I've eaten the entire bayg, and I now feel sightly sick. 😳
Haribo are rough. Most of their sweets make me feel poorly in one way or another after a whole bag.
Bassetts and Maynards do not.
Grrrrr.
Will have to go and get some now.
Molly, Haribo are the best by far.
43kg this morning
I don't eat sweets, can't see why anyone would.
Girl with a bad sweetie habit says...Whaaaattttt?
wind up
Me a wind up or you?
You! Obviously
every-one likes sweets
Not me. I really don't get what the attraction of them is.
Just utter junk isn't it?
I don't eat sugar straight from the packet either, although do like brown sugar sandwiches... go figure.
My legs weigh 43kg, that's just ridiculous.
Wine gums are better than Haribo, easily.
😐
What's wrong?
I think he's just cut his legs off and they weigh a lot more than he thought they would 😐
Molly you really should've asked the forum before attempting this.
No, with you, I meant?
You don't seem your usual self.
I've got a bad knee, but I'm alright 🙂
Oh and I have run out of wine. I'm only half full of win.
Didn't think I was being any different though? I was typing from the bath tub... makes me more succinct.
I wonder if Tesco will still be doing 4 Kit Kat Chunkys for a pound tomorrow morning...I can't think about anything else this evening.
I'm nowhere near gastric band territory at the moment, but definitely in fat masseur-land. 🙂
he is getting apprehensive about LEJOG dont worry you will be fine ...the rest is macho bravado
When you oop north - email in profile for dates time round manchester may meet up if possible
emsz you is less than 7 stone 😯
K
Typing from the bath...I'm in bed
I'm going out for chips now 😛
Emsz - what are you wearing?
Junky - current plan is Mkt Drayton to Preston on the 27th. Would be good if you could pop out to see us. Seriously though my knee is hurting... been giving way on me when I walk upstairs 🙁
The Southern Yeti - MemberI was typing from the bath tub... makes me more succinct.
ow there is an image that is going to haunt me something like this
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TSY emsz i think you generaly have internet sex without the use of a forum but hey I wll get you started
What you wearing ? are either of you hot perhaps?
Vest and PJS. (stripy flannel) Not very sexy I'm afraid.
Sorry
Course I'm hot... I'm wearing a suit in the bath!
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[i]emsz you is less than 7 stone [/i]
no tits no hips no bum 😐
Look on the bright side- nothing to get all saggy and baggy. 🙂
You must be very, very tiny though.
Tiny is best cos it's more environmentally friendly.