[Closed] Sickness Review Meeting/Return to work

I expect that you won't just be laid off without having had some previous warnings/meetings about unsatisfactory performance. They will however expect you to agree to some form of action plan to try to address your health issues (which you appear to have identified yourself in other threads)

Standard procedure these days. Mostly it's aimed at identifying underlying issues and should be helping you to maintain a better record i.e. - stop worrying, you'll only make yourself ill 😉

The number of incidents you're reporting must be off the scale.

I don't know what to say beyond that.

sorry mate but i had to laugh, you are accident prone.it can only get better though.

Standard procedure these days.

+1

It's to catch out people who seem to be off "ill" most Mondays, or whenever they have an argument with their boyfriend etc.

Or to genuinely try to help people who might have wider problems.

jesus no wonder the nhs is in such a state 🙂
talk about getting your moneys worth 😉

However genuine your sick leave, your line manager will have to be seen to manage your sickness levels. In many respects you are an expensive asset in terms of vfm. Your employer has already shown a deal of patience and in any arena you and your line manager would be required to show a real effort to avoid further absences. Howvyou do that is up to you, but you have to accept that you have far exceeded acceptable absence levels.

I don't know how I've become so injury and illness prone. Colds I just plough on through with but they did said me home once as I looked like I was about to pass out.
Never ring up unless I have an injury that requires a A&E visit.
Kidney pain was so bad it obviously made me shake and vomited.

I said to them last time, I've no idea why I have had so many injuries. And these past two years I've been riddled.

My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years for surgery for two hernias.

Standard procedure, even for some companies if you take one day off during the year.

You are bloody injury prone though, are you sure you should be a mountain biker?

I reckon in surgery and scans I've cost them £20,000.
Not all my periods of sickness have been paid. I got one month full pay and three months half pay in twelve months. This year I was back before sick pay ended.

I contribute plenty in tax and national insurance 😆

What Bregante and Scotroutes said. Unless they have been shown previously of helping manage your sickness it's hard for them to sack you, even more so when cause by such things as scalding and RTCs. You've only had is it 4 episodes in 2 years, how many in the last 12 months?

If you were my member of staff I'd set an action up plan up after episode 2 but I'd asked to HR right off the scalding and RTC as it's hardly casual sickness.

Only dislocated my shoulder on mtb. Popped back in. That's was 2009. Back at work next day.

Oh and I broke my finger this Feb. Taped it up after using gloves and washing hands but worked through it.

Just work from home as a pillow tester. I would make sure someone gets them upstairs for you though.

The only way they could sack you is if they've followed their sickness absence policies, and can show that they've been through back to work interviews, sickness absence reviews and so on, and are measuring your absence on something like a Bradford scale.

There may be a slim possibility that you could be dismissed through capability, but they'd need a Occy health report and access to your doc's records for that. Have you been assessed, or have you consented for HR to look at your docs records at all? Have they written to you to say that the meeting is about capability at all?

If in doubt take a friend with you to the meeting, but I would try not to worry, it sounds like you've just had a run of bad luck, it could happen to anyone

You'll be fine, all Trusts have set triggers in attendance management policy possibly leading to certain processes - hr meeting/ oh referral.
As OH nurse I would be looking for patterns to identify issues - such as sick week after.payday every month/ school hols to see if taking piss.
Most places look at rolling 12 month period and number episodes in that period to see. Maybe agree a 'health improvement plan' to offer support and set limits of expected absences for set timescales to trigger further actions.
Your absences are legitimate from what you say so chill. Your manager will have processes and policy to follow such as return to work interview, they are there to support genuine cases such as you and catch pisstakers.
Hope makes sense, posting from phone
Edit: what he said above too, and luckily nhs dont tend use Bradford system, it sucks

standard and unlikely to lead to a sacking IMHO

My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years

May I suggest that two weeks sick per year isn't really 'only'...? That's 5% of your time employeed!

As said though, all procedural, sure they'll warn you before they sack you.

Your litany of disaster sounds really bad but just imagine, if you'd had that many absences and they were all "headache/flu" and on a monday, you'd be ****ed 🙂

At least one of your absences was affected by your work- you could probably have done my job onehanded (no I am not a fluffer) but you couldn't do yours. That ought to be taken into account.

All in all... It's not automatically cause for concern. I've been on some sort of attendance monitoring for pretty much my entire working life, for various genuine reasons... Sometimes it's been done well, sometimes terribly, but it's always for the same reasons and it's never been overtly to sack my diseased ass. Though it has felt terrible and accusing sometimes. My current boss does this conversation.

"So you were off then"
"Yep"
"And that means I've got to do this interview thing. I hate these."
"Sorry"
"Anyway, everything OK? Anything I can help with? No? OK, glad to have you back! Try not to ride into any more trees though, not because of work, it's just genuinely stupid"

I would say, don't worry unless it becomes a thing to definitely worry about. Even if it's pretty ropey, it's probably just bad management, especially in a big organisation. And <TJ MODE> are you in a union?

I don't get how you can have an "action plan" for a series of accidents?

My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years for surgery for two hernias.

I'm not too sure 'only' is quite the right choice of words.
I don't think I've have had that much off in over 25 years 🙂

vickypea - Member

I don't get how you can have an "action plan" for a series of accidents?

Ah well now there it can get more complicated. It could sometimes be things like different working practices- like, when my leg was ****ed mobility was a problem, so a good action plan might have been to work more locally. The company refused to do that, so I kept on being off sick but, there's options.

Or it could be like after I had a spate of (as far as I know) unconnected viral/sickness things, with a dab of diabetic complications, my action plan was "Keep on only being off sick when really ill". I don't think that's exactly what they had in mind but it was what they got 😆

But yeah, some managers will have ideas in their head like "how are you going to reduce the amount of absences" meaning "you need to be off ill less" not "how can we manage this"

I've seen the sick process from the managers side and for serious injury/hospital stuff its as much about HR wanting to ensure you have ticked all the boxes regarding supporting the employee through the absence, ensuring they are getting the right treatment and are not forgotten.

Examples include additional/complementary physio to what you may be getting on the NHS or private, ensuring the employee is aware there is counselling available and how to contact them (covering everything from I'm useless at home and feel like a spare part, to family issues, to WhyTF was I such an idiot to injure myself the way I did).

We also have to contact all long term sick employee's for a weekly catch up on treatment/prognosis, and the odd home visit. Be easy to lose contact for weeks otherwise which isn't good, especially if the treatment isn't suitable or effective.

Google Bradford index. Your score will be high on that. However its there to capture the person who pulls a sicky on a Monday quite regularly.

I assume you are clinical and that's why you couldn't return to work sooner after all your injuries? Did you offer to come in sooner and do non directly clinical roles?

Being honest, you are a big headache for the trust, its cost lots to employ you and get some one to cover you, plus the management time.

How is your relationship with the department. In 1 year I was off for weeks. 1 week flu, 10 weeks pneumonia, 2 weeks illness off the back of pneumonia, 6 weeks broken wrist. In my review they said don't worry about it, its just an HR thing. They knew I wasn't taking the pee though, and I offered to work from him when well enough. The fact that you are worrying so much makes me think you don't have a great relationship with your line management.

Google Bradford index. Your score will be high on that. However its there to capture the person who pulls a sicky on a Monday quite regularly.

Any sensible employer would have binned that years ago.

Do not attempt DIY

I've had 5 sick days off in a year and have triggered this procedure.
I'm off to Occupational Health later this month after seeing my GP and department manager and acting duty engineer, they just want to find out if it's a recurring issue and or work related etc.
The irony of this is that we had someone in our team 'off sick' for over a year, he didn't get this far as he didn't actually return to work, ever! In his case it was all self inficted with the aid of a needle............
Needless to say he's no longer employed here.

I worked with a farm technician who caught everything under the sun, and she was made to do the return to work thing regularly, school couldn't get shot of her as she was fantastic at what she did, but she appeared to catch diseases from everything.

Same school, there was a member of staff, more senior, who returned to work about twice a year, at the start of the year, then just before Christmas, rest of the time he was 'sick'. Had done it for years

No point worrying about it, it sounds like you've had a really bad run of luck and it doesn't sound like you can back up the injuries with scars to prove it!

Most HR policies have formulas to flag up worrying absence rates. The number of absences is usually key rather than the total number of days, so taking 5 x 1 or 2 day absences in a year would get you an interview where as 1 x10 days wouldn't.

Over a two year period you haven't actually had that many incidents of absence, just didn't do it by halves when you were off!

Any sensible employer would have binned that years ago.

Sadly it's still widely in use. HR and 'sensible' are not two words I would normally associate.

Maybe they want to give you a new role testing the quality of service they provide? You've had an unbelievable run of bad luck, but as above you it is all legit and not exactly your fault.

I'm not sure it would be good PR for an NHS trust to sack someone who was genuinely ill/injured.

In my place you get flagged if you have two absences within a few weeks of each other.

So I got put on monitoring as I was off for three days or so with a heavy cold, and then a few weeks later a 24hr sickness bug took me out of work for a day. Ding, the Bradford factor flagged me up!

Most people at my work will stay off for a good week as if they come back too early and go sick again, its worse than just one three week absence.

I've been back at work on phased return, 3 weeks after having 2 months off to recover from major surgery, and I had a bit of trouble with the team dumping loads of urgent work on me right from the first day back. I was so tired last week and now I've come down with a cold. I haven't taken any time off for the cold but I am so exhausted it's a lesson to the team to respect my phased return.

My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years

another 😯 😯 here.

I've had 6 days off sick in 17 years, 5 of them due to chickenpox in 2001 (and I was happy to work through that, putting in the time outside normal working hours, but we had a pregancy in the office, so I wasn't allowed to).

Can I ask - what are you doing to rack up all these injuries? I don't think I've actually even seen that many accidents across the company and a pool of freelancers doing some fairly dodgy stuff on site in 17 years!

Sounds like WCA has a contender for his crown.....

The OP has an almost incomprehensible username, so can it be officially changed to accidentwaitingtohappen? 😉
That is a terribly unfortunate litany of personal disasters, the OP has my sympathy, not a lot of fun being had, there.
I think I've had a total of approximately four weeks off in over thirty five years for sickness, two weeks for chicken pox, a week in bed with flu, (and I never, ever, want that again!), and a couple of days off before a weekend with Norovirus, so a bit over three weeks in total.
Hope everything works out for the best, health and work-wise.

spooky_b329 - Member

In my place you get flagged if you have two absences within a few weeks of each other.

The most hassle I ever had was when I broke my hip, I was off work for IIRC 10 weeks then returned to work a bit early, still on crutches. After about a week, I did some mischief to the muscles damaged by the surgery, and was off again, my doctor said "I bloody told you so..." But the bank went mental, because in their eyes that was 2 totally different absences for 2 totally different injuries, the computer said PROBLEM and nobody had the wits to go "this dude could have still been signed off, sitting at home playing final fantasy but he wanted to come back as soon as he could, and overdid it". So second time round I got my doc to sign me off for another 8 weeks and **** 'em- I'd have been back at work long before if they weren't such total ****s but you reap what you sow.

I've never been so accident prone in my life.

The Burn, i was holding it under the Water Geyser to fill a Tea pot up for someone and lost my grip on the pot and the water went straight over my hand and wrist.

The RTA, id just visited my Step Mum who was in Critical Care at the time who'd just had a massive stroke at 50 year old, and my Granpa had died the day before the rta. So stupidly i set off too briskly on a cold frosty evening and the backend of the motorbike stepped out, i stuck my leg out so i didn't fall off and it twisted.

Initially it was diagnosed as a severe sprain and told to take a fortnight off, two weeks past still no improvement so a MRI scan was done at another hospital and the fracture and Ligament damage was found. Hence longer recovery.

The Cartilage tear, just one of them things, i skidded on some mud on the path and it went pop. Same leg as the above so probably a weakness.

Broken finger, dog ran into me and i feel against the wall. Straight to A&E its broke but we'll splint it. Took the splint off and just went to work with it and took pain killers. Seems fine now just stiff.

The Achillies on my other leg, routine bp check at my gp said my heel feels a bit tender. They said ice it and try to rest when on your days off. Was fine for a month then just went snap while at work, nothing taxting just walking down the corridor and next minute im on the floor wondering what had happened.

[i]My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years for surgery for two hernias. [/i]

I've not had 8 weeks off in my entire working life, the best part of 30 years.

OP, that really is the crappiest run of bad luck, hope everything perks up in the new year.

Hope it goes well, but I also had to laugh. If I were you I'd be worried about the likelihood of being struck by lightning or suchlike, given your track record, I wouldn't leave the house!

Just be honest, offer to show them your medical records if necessary.

Yup i just put it down to bad luck. Some years are memorable for the right reasons. Smiling though today as i enjoyed a mountain bike ride in the sun. 🙂

I'm having to deal with an employee under a new (public sector) absence policy that has an emphasis on the impact on business i.e. being able to sustain the level of absence, regardless of the reason for absence or whether it's been gp certified. It's very harsh but as yet untested in a legal challenge.

[i]I'm having to deal with an employee under a new (public sector) absence policy that has an emphasis on the impact on business i.e. being able to sustain the level of absence, regardless of the reason for absence or whether it's been gp certified. It's very harsh but as yet untested in a legal challenge. [/i]

They may be connected but these are two different issues really. Reminds me of working in the NHS where on projects they worked on a 48 week working year, yet most staff had +7 weeks annual leave (never mind sickness and a load of other mandatory absence) - no wonder pretty much all projects overran.

"My old job I only had 8 weeks off in four years for surgery for two hernias.

I've not had 8 weeks off in my entire working life, the best part of 30 years. "

Sorry not picking anyone out here as a few have made similar comments,
Can I just say YET.

In a 5 year period I had 2 periods of sick leave, one for 6 and the other for 7 months. shit happens

only had 8 weeks off in 4 years

Only?!??
£20 says you're salaried.
I've had 7 days off in 13+ years now. One of those was to look after my wife for a day after she was hospitalised the previous night.
That included breaking my ankle twice and my wrist once, by the way.
When you're hourly paid, you get zilch for being off sick. It concentrates the mind wonderfully.

Also the OP had Feb-June off for a broken leg. Really? Ever heard of crutches? Couldnt do ANY Work for 3-5 months? Come on.......

Nope only been salaried since 2012 I was on a hourly wage in my old job. I used my accrued annual leave for surgery. Zero sick days.

And if you could explain how I'm supposed to move Orthopaedic Trauma patients, I.e fractured neck of femurs, bi lateral fractures etc pre and post op while on crutches myself. Then I'd like to see the solution to that.

Working in a clinic or general medical ward I might get away with it. We don't just dish medication out and wipe backsides. You ever tried pushing a 300kg traction bed with a 70/100 kg patient on from a ward to theatre while on crutches. Used a hoist to get said patient from bed to chair, bed to commode and back to bed?

Also the OP had Feb-June off for a broken leg. Really? Ever heard of crutches? Couldnt do ANY Work for 3-5 months? Come on.......

I had eight weeks off work after shoulder surgery....... Because the HR people wouldn't let me back on the premises until I was healed enough to withstand getting knocked in the crowded environment. I think they were paranoid about being sued after such an event. I returned after their Occupational Health provider agreed i was OK to go back. I know of people who would be back working within a week after such surgery, but they worked in an office environment, so it really does depend on your type of work as the OP says

Just ignore the heroes bwfc4eva868 they don't realise not every employer lets injured and sick staff back to work, just because the employer is in the 19th century they think everyone's should be.

Exactly. Also the burn, I would have violated all infection control rules having a dressing on my hand during patient intervention. If I was a medical Secretary I would be expected to be at work as pain allowed and on crutches I'd be fine.

I wonder how many of the heroes have spent days at work achieving nothing because they're unfit for work, while infecting others around them or otherwise causing hassle by their injury/illness?

Sounds pretty normal request. I've had them at work, HR thing to make sure there are no underlying issues in the workplace (normally just binned it on the bike and can't hold a chainsaw with a bust hand).
Equally, the wife has a long term illness and since they have been aware they haven't questioned anything and are really accommodating.

bwfc4eva868 - Member

Not all my periods...

I'm not surprised they don't always believe you... 😀

😆 just realised I could of worded that better

In my work its all about are you fit to do the job your are employed to do, not if your absences are genuine. 4 absences in 12 months starts you on disciplinary, next absence moves you up an so on, 7 in 12 months gets the sack...end of, pretty much. Well would you want to work with some one who was never at work leaving your colleagues to pick up the slack etc. Bit harsh I know but you are employed to do a job and if you ate not fit enough to do it..........

What does your contract of employment or the HR procedure say about absenteeism? Have a read of that before you start worrying. However at the end of the day you have entered into a contract of employment to turn up somewhere and work and if you're not fulfilling that you might have problems no matter how good the reasons are.