[Closed] 'shouldnt be riding here'!

stock response: 'I know, silly isn't it'

and keep on riding.

Same everywhere looks like

@richwales Wow, that's something I never thought I'd see... a Facebook post where the comments are in the majority sensible, calm and pro-cycling :O

stock response: ‘I know, silly isn’t it’

and keep on riding.

This works excellently. I tired to have a sensible conversation with some tool in Langdale a few years ago about why I was cycling on the footpath with my 9 year old son instead of the A road. He wasn't having any of it, so I recalled the advice above and continued the conversation.

We discussed the rights and wrongs of it round and round. The reasons we were on the footpath, and the harm we were doing. He couldn't come up with any arguments against the former, or examples of the latter, so eventually he just said that "It's against the law", "it's a footpath", "you're not allowed to be here" in an increasingly exasperated fashion. At which point I would enthusiastically reply "Yes, I know, it's ridiculous isn't it". The more emphasis he put on his objection the more emphasis I put on the fact that I was in total agreement that the situation was ridiculous.

At which point he'd then say something along the lines that we weren't in agreement and that he was objecting to me being there for x,y,z reasons. We'd then discuss those reasons in detail and I'd knock them down one by one. At some point in the conversation he'd then revert back to "yes, but this is a footpath IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO RIDE ON IT"

"YES, I KNOW, ISN'T IT COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS, ISN'T IT?"

and so on, round and round.

Just respond with an OK BOOMER! (you know, like the kids do) and keep going.

If that's the land owners sabotaging I'd be calling the police, that barbed wire looks lethal

I do have some sympathy with land owners as more n more spots are dug out and get bigger and bigger. The more their lands modified or ruined.

Again it Seam to be a recent thing, we used to clear a line but now it's all bike parky berms, gnarly jumps etc. Its like no one wants xc anymore

Erm, that is a criminal offence right there.

That is a calculated attempt to seriously injure someone.

I'd phone the police about that

I’d phone the police about that

+1 That is designed to seriously injure someone.

+1 That is designed to seriously injure someone.

Well, yes clearly. But just a cyclist, so nobody will give a shit. 🙁

I'm a bit confused by the OP - the words in the post are all about people saying you shouldn't ride, but the pictures are of deliberate attempts to harm riders, but no mention of that in the words? Is there some of the story missing or are the pics out of context?

moaning and complaining that i couldnt or shouldnt be riding my bike on various forest trails and one actual road

Assuming you are on an actual, factual, designated right-of-way footpath, then more fool them...

Footpaths, on the other hand, are stand-alone paths which include around 80% of public paths in the countryside as well as many urban paths supplementing the road network. In general it is not an offence to cycle on these, except where individual paths are subject to local bye-laws or traffic regulation orders.

unless of course they are aware of said local bye-laws or traffic regulation orders...

... but somehow I doubt that.

Most people who say things like this are just ignorant NIMBY numpties who want the path to themselves.

seems a local landowner isnt too happy either

that would be a personal matter between you and the landowner, again, if you exercising a right-of-way (i.e. not pissing about building berms in the bushes, rather, simply getting from one side of the land to the other via the footpath) then they - legally - have squat against you. General public are not legally entitled to do anything in this context, it is not their land.

Also, +1 for reporting the barbed wire strategically placed to garrote you, again, assuming it was placed across a right-of-way, and not simply shutting down a cheeky bumps and jumps section the locals have carved out of somebody's woods.

edit: sauce: cyclinguk fact page

@greybeard

seems a local landowner isnt too happy either, im not condoning building illegal trails but his response is OTT.

@sailor74 is that King's Wood? Never seen or heard of any aggro there before. ****ing disgraceful wherever it is!

The only "run-ins" (and there have been very few as I always try to be polite!) I've ever had in the woods have been with people obviously taking their once-yearly walk, or entitled dog owners where they like to let their rabid hounds run around off the lead. But basically people who don't don't/won't understand about "sharing" the countryside. Hardly ever proper red-socks (think I got a sarcastic comment about ringing my bell once, but that's probably the worst 😂)

I got told on the weekend that I was riding on a footpath. I pointed out to the grumpy old lady that I was on the South Downs Way, which was in fact a bridleway (at the point I was on) and it was for use by walkers, cyclist and horse riders. I then told her to check the signage (which was clearly a blue bridle way arrow).

I am hoping she did read the sign posts as she walked past them, to therefore help her wind her neck in.....

the local council has also erected signs stating they are going to demolish a local ride spot that has been used for decades

Hmm. If it's FC land it might be a bit more complex. Open access legislation does not permit right of access by bike or horse unless there is a pre-existing tradition of access. Now many of the local non-RoW common trails near me definitely fit that definition having been in regular use since before I came here in the early 90s.

It seems riding walking or kayaking could now be a political statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/10/the-book-of-trespass-by-nick-hayes-review-a-trespassers-radical-manifesto

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/forgive-us-our-trespasses-forbidden-rambles-with-a-right-to-roam-campaigner

the local council has also erected signs stating they are going to demolish a local ride spot that has been used for decades.

Someone I know has had their "spot" come up on the council radar, so they've entered into discussion about making it an official thing. Might be worth a go...

entitled dog owners where they like to let their rabid hounds run around off the lead

Try not to show the same hate people show towards cyclists at other path users - it isn't 'us and them' and the sooner ALL parties see that, the better and we'll all get along. Possibly.

(Cyclist and dog owner here)

General public are not legally entitled to do anything in this context, it is not their land.

There was a long thread on the Cycling UK forum from a guy (regular cyclist) who had a go at some cyclists using a footpath in the woods while he was walking his dog. It was pointed out to him several times that it was none of his business since he isn't the landowner and if he has a problem with it, he needs to complain to the landowner.

It may even be that it's officially a FP but the landowner has given permitted RoW to cyclists and horseriders.

He wasn't happy and it seemed a bit strange complaining about it on CUK when their official stance is basically "the access laws are bollocks, we're in favour of considerate riding on all suitable trails" complete with an overview of the laws of trespass and your rights.

From what I read on FB the traps are on private land on the opposite side of road to Kings Wood and been there years. Most will just assume they're part of Kings Wood.
Edit: Sorry, the traps are new, the trails have been there years.

is it me or are the joyless folk out in force post Covid

I think its less about an increase in joylessness and more about conflict, suddenly there are a lot of people out and about, many of whom barely left the car park before and the result is a lot more people having arguments with stravanaughts, extending lead dog ignorers, "don't worry he's just being friendly", I'll do WTF I like folk finding them selves bumping into each other.

Annoyingly this is a big reason given for not extending Scottish style access rights to RoUK, there are too many people too close together and we simply can't get along nicely. At first glance it seems that's right and that given the whole of this green and pleasant land to enjoy, when more people have, they've all just gone to the same places as before but in bigger numbers, leaving more litter, causing more problems, more damage and more friction.

The thing is as we're the ones who more often than not are exceeding our rights of access we're the first ones to see the impact in terms of restrictions, that and "trails" are fairly easy to dismantle and rarely have any rights of access (let alone construction) vs stopping someone just wandering off into the trees or using an RoW. that said round here you'll notice for every "no cycling" sign that has gone up there are two "no fouling" or take your litter home ones.

The nails and wire above though are certainly not joylessness and are deliberate acts with the intent to cause injury, that's viscous nasty people being exactly that.

Is this the same story?

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/barbed-wire-and-spike-snares-left-on-bike-trail-231929/

Is this the same story?

Looks like it.
And I'm changing my name to Steve Cool 😎

Try not to show the same hate people show towards cyclists at other path users – it isn’t ‘us and them’ and the sooner ALL parties see that, the better and we’ll all get along. Possibly.

There's always been trails in Kings Wood, I recall I took my first mountain bike up there over 30 years ago, rode up from Ashford. It always used to be a great location and occasionally XC and Downhill races were held there, shame to see some people object so badly as to endanger life. Moved to Gloucestershire 10 years ago and haven't come across this sort of thing here yet....

Most people who say things like this are just ignorant NIMBY numpties who want the path to themselves.

It all boils down to this really.

Two particular rides stand out, early Sunday and coming face to face halfway through a full on rally stage and another time finding a poor suicide victim hanging from a tree, pre-mobile phones that was a damn fast ride to the pub at Challock to use the payphone.

the traps are on private land

Does that matter? Is it legal to murder trespassers nowadays?

is it me or are the joyless folk out in force post Covid

I've been ready with a witty come back (eg "I'm just out testing my eyesight") or the "silly isn't it" response throughout lock-down but everybody I've met has been polite and cheery. I've barely seen anyone while I've been riding cheeky bits, quite a few people walking on the bike trails, though. Worst I've had is a few people not apologising for their out of control dogs but I can live with that.

It all boils down to this really.

I came to the somewhat startling revelation a few months back (don't laugh I'm a slow learner) that of all the people who've ever challenged me riding a FP. none has ever been the landowner. On that basis, I've pretty much decided not to engage anymore. I won't ride dangerously, and I'm pretty much always polite and respectful, which is more than some manage.

Does that matter? Is it legal to murder trespassers nowadays?

Yes, thanks to Brexit, also hanging will again be an acceptable punishment for stealing bread. *

* PS Do we need a new variant of Godwin's law for Brexit?

@qwerty

Someone I know has had their “spot” come up on the council radar, so they’ve entered into discussion about making it an official thing. Might be worth a go…

people have tried this over the years, including myself about 10 years ago but the council dont seem interested, they even went to the trouble of removing the rubbish bins that had been put there 'illegally'. historically is was an iron age settlement therefore there is obviously some protection. i wonder though how long we hold on to that given modern man has been using it for other purposes, mainly bike riding, for the last 2 decades that i know of.

yes its Kings wood, most folk didnt realise it was private as there is no signage. i have heard stories of worse behavior from the landowner but they are second hand and im unable to verify them.

someone commented about people not wanting to share, ive had this discussion plenty of times and even when people realise they are wrong the truth is they just dont want to share. thats the reason i sold my dirt bike recently, i just got tired of people complaining i was riding footpaths from people who were walking 3 abreast dogs off leads etc along a byway open to all traffic.....and... complaining about the traffic!!

people moaning and complaining that i couldnt or shouldnt be riding my bike on various forest trails and one actual road

I just tell them I can't ride on the road because cyclists don't pay "road tax" & it wouldn't be right

Took the dog for a walk to Joydens Wood yesterday. I’ve been riding over there for more years than I care to remember and only once had the conversation. Most people are ok but there are some off-piste lines appearing.
I noticed that a no mountain biking sign had appeared on the gate. Woodland Trust have obviously changed their minds on open(ish)access.

I've lost account of the number of run-ins I've had over the years - SDW in particular with the bobble-hat brigade trying to make a point. Had it on the Shipwright's Way too. Annoyingly, you also get the perfectly rideable bridleway that turns into a footpath and then back again for the reason that the landowner objects - few of those on the North Downs.

However, the best solution has been moving to Scotland!

rOcKeTdOg
I just tell them I can’t ride on the road because cyclists don’t pay “road tax” & it wouldn’t be right

I'm going to use that the next time I encounter an irate militant local

You southerners really need to take the pitchforks to your pollies and get access sorted.

I refuse to believe the English en masse are any different from Scots, so all will be well when people know everyone else has an equal right to be there.

The only people who will be put out are the arseholes who will have to find a new reason to whine and complain. It would be a kindness to site a refugee hostel near them so they won't feel deprived.

As for dogs, I've never had a problem with free-range dogs in Scotland. It's the poor pooches being strangled by leads that are the problem. Dogs are canny enough to get out of the way. I usually stop to pat them anyway.

Does that matter? Is it legal to murder trespassers nowadays?

Do you really think I'm backing that idea, myself a keen off road cyclist/bike rider :rolleyes:

as a motorcycle trail rider i pointed out some time ago that MTB riders would be the ramblers next "target"

Do you really think I’m backing that idea, myself a keen off road cyclist/bike rider :rolleyes:

I didn't think you were endorsing it, rather I wasn't really sure what point you were trying to make?

I refuse to believe the English en masse are any different from Scots,

Of course not but there are likely to be 60% more of the selfish, entitled, vocal wombles in London alone than in the whole of Scotland. It's not that we're any different it's just there's a lot more people in a lot smaller space.

I wasn’t really sure what point you were trying to make?

Not too difficult if you read or even wrote any of this:

Is there some of the story missing or are the pics out of context?

if you exercising a right-of-way

Hmm. If it’s FC land it might be a bit more complex.

Ie adding context not point making.

I get this a lot where I live, the area is well used by horses, dog walkers, walkers, runners, green laners and cyclists. Everybody seems to hate everybody for being in "their" countryside but they all seem to hate cyclists a little bit more.

I've given up trying to reason or discuss it with people. I was told last week that I shouldn't be using a road as I was on a bike. I stopped and politely asked why I should not be using a tarmac, 30mph piece of road on a bike and all he could say is it that "you cyclists all fly along here and scare people walking their dogs". I asked him if he had every tried riding a full suspension MTB up a fairly steep hill on tarmac and what the top speed he managed was because I struggle to get 18mph up there, never mind 30. All I got is mumble, mumble, going too fast/think you own the road etc.

I was only on the road for 200 yards as it avoids having to ride down a footpath!

And don't get me started on idiots with earphones in who complain that I didn't ring my bell or that I startled them.