Forum menu
I firmly believe that voting should be made compulsory.
I also firmly believe that there should be a 'none of the above' option in order that those who are sceptical about all politicians (suggest a better system - and no, I don't thing that anarchy would work and I'm not keen on dictatorships given their previous history).
It would be a good idea to have local and national elections on the same day where possible to avoid 'voter fatigue' and to make exceptions where people are unable to vote for reasons of health (doctor's certificate required for proof), geographical location (away from their constituency, out of the country - but a proxy vote could cover these contingencies) or religious conviction (a sort of 'conscientious objector' system).
I think that compulsory voting would focus attention on matters that really affect us (and others) and that it would prevent apathy being the politicians' best friend.
and the flowers and birds 😉
Its our democratic right not to vote 🙂
How are you going to ensure that everyone is on the electoral register ?
What would be the punishment for not voting ?
If people don't want to vote, and will just tick any box, is forcing them likely to give a distorted result ?
Why stop at that Julian? tell us who to vote for too.
No way- as not voting is the only way you can express your distaste for the current system.
If we all didnt vote then perhaps they may change it.
redthunder - Member
and the flowers and birds
Not sure how they could vote anyway: they might have to be excused (and what about animals: are you being flowerist and birdist here)
Its our democratic right not to vote
True, but if you want to live in a democracy, don't you feel a duty to participlate? Obviously not... That's a shame.
trailmonkey - Member
How are you going to ensure that everyone is on the electoral register ?
Not sure, but we get a letter asking us to confirm our details quite regularly, and I think there may be legal consequences for failing to register / provide accurate details
What would be the punishment for not voting ?
A fine? Why wouldn't you want to vote? I suggested a 'none of the above' option so that people can express their discontent with all parties (and a 75% 'none of the above' vote would express that pretty clearly, I suggest)
If people don't want to vote, and will just tick any box, is forcing them likely to give a distorted result ?
See above...
GW - Member
Why stop at that Julian? tell us who to vote for too.
Where in my post did I suggest that? See the 'none of the above' get-out clause.
guido - Member
No way- as not voting is the only way you can express your distaste for the current system.
If we all didnt vote then perhaps they may change it.
Actually, I suggest that spoiling your paper might be effective as well. (But see the 'none of the above' get-out clause.)
If we all didn't vote then whichever administration is currently in power then surely they will stay there.
Sorry i didnt explain myself. i dont see the point in voting due to the fact that anything our MP's want to do can be overturned by some unelected (tory)lords.
So why should i bother leaving my house to spoil a bit of paper? just dont go.
Actually I do vote, always. But it is my choice THANKFULLY.
yes spoiling your ballot paper/abstaining is still fine but FFS vote. People died for you to have this power now excercise it please.
i dont see the point in voting due to the fact that anything our MP's want to do can be overturned by some unelected (tory)lords.
no they cannot the best they can do it delay for two years (if not a budget) nice taht you dont vote and your reason is factually incorrect.
Thanks for winging on a forum that will show them
@ Julian
r u tandemjeremy in disguise 😉
I do actually vote EVERYTIME BTW.
I just dont think it should be the LAW it should be your choice.
Quick test voting is compulsory but only if wearing a helmet
foolproof way of outing TJ I think
Lets have a vote on it?
too damned right it should be compulsory to vote. It is already compulsory to be registered, by the way, and other democratically run countries successfully make voting compulsory.
People are too ready to complain about the country they live in, without being ready to take any responsibility, no matter how small, for it's leadership, and ultimately, it's policies.
I vote for a Guido dictatorship.
guido - Member
Sorry i didnt explain myself. i dont see the point in voting due to the fact that anything our MP's want to do can be overturned by some unelected (tory)lords.
So why should i bother leaving my house to spoil a bit of paper? just dont go.
I'm pretty sure that it's not just Tory Lords that overturn stuff: last time I heard the majority in the House of Lords was Lib Dem...
You should consider bothering to leave your house (your nearest polling station should be pretty close) as, if you don't, whichever is the current administration will win (and this one will impose ID cards and the travel database (previously mentioned on here somewhere) amd quite a lot of other stuff which will (further) severely restrict our liberties.
JulianA i do always vote actually. I just playing devil. please see my other post.
and i want rid of all the lords- i dont really care about what party they are from i just dislike tory lords the most. thats all.
guido and redthunder: nice bit of devil's advocacy there then!
You are obviously not the people that this thread was aimed at then (and there is no-one on here that it WAS aimed at), but I think that if more people got involved with the process (and in some countries people do want to be involved with the way their country is run) we might just have a country that is better to live in.
Thank you also junkyard and vinnyeh for some very relevant comments.
I am not TandemJeremy, by the way. I actually seem to find myself disagreeing with quite a lot of what he says (but would defend, if not to the death, his right to say it!)
I still think baby Robins should be able to vote 😉
When voting, should wearing helmets be compulsory 🙂
[i]People died for you to have this power now excercise it please.[/i]
people died for us to have various freedoms too. Like the ability to choose whether you do something or not.
I vote nearly every time, but I think a low turnout is the sign of a healthy democracy.
Sounds counter-intuitive, but what it indicates is that nobody really thinks a major change is required.
If there was the possibiity of a free, no recrimination vote in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Zimbabwe the turnout would be 100%.
(well, 120% actually)
if you want to live in a democracy, don't you feel a duty to participlate?
Is putting a cross on a bit of paper every few years [i]really[/i] participating though?
I think almost the exact opposite. Your vote should only count if you can correctly answer some very basic multi-choice questions about the policies of the party you are voting for.
[i]People died for you to have this power now excercise it please.
people died for us to have various freedoms too. Like the ability to choose whether you do something or not.[/i]
Not sure that is why she jumped in front of a horse what do you think?
You can still excercise choice but you will need ot do it in the polling booth.
EDIT: I agree with GarahamS
what's the difference, in real terms, between ticking a box that says "none of them" and just not voting?
Oh, I give up!
If you can't see why you should vote you should probably be debarred from so doing. You know who you are.
I wonder why I bother and just want to live somewhere where other intelligent people live.
A decent opposition is required. Who would really care about the 'none of the above' votes?
What would be the cost / benefit of compulsory voting against punishing all those that didn't vote?
We have a decent opposition. The Conservative Party. See scrapping of ID cards, etc.
Who TF cares about cost / benefit? We're talking about the potential (probable) loss of basic, essential liberties here. Or at least, [i]I[/i] was.
I wish I hadn't started this thread (I knew that would happen!) as it has just highlighted the apathy (if not the ignorance) of the people in this country.
Sorry, this started as an attempt at a discussion but that doesn't seem possible in this country.
Thanks to those of you who [i]have[/i] entered into discussion.
More beer required, bye.
erm...do you actually understand anarchism as a concept? It doesn't strictly mean what the Pistols would have you believe... 😉
Libertarian socialism anyone?
Yes, I believe I do understand anarchism as a concept, but I also believe that it requires a level of personal responsibility that doesn't exist in this country (or others: discuss, please).
I also think it couldn't work in a world where we need to pay taxes and work with other countries: wouldn't it lead to any country adopting it being marginalised and joining the third world (as if we aren't a third world country already!)
What is Libertarian socialism?
JulianA, I see where you're coming from with your argument, but it is fundamentally flawed on a couple of levels.
Firstly, some people are just too apathetic to vote. And whilst I don't understand this myself (I would always vote, regardless of whether I think they're all tossers or not), I do see it as adding a healthy balance into the mix that is the UK public. The apathetic portion of the population add balance to those of us that wish to change/improve things. They send out the message either that they're not fussed by any change, or that they don't think a change would be any better or worse. The problem with voting occurs when you either have too many people that want to vote (ie. Zimbabwe everyone would without any ramifications), or you get too few that want to vote (as in the UK right now as most people have given up on politicians as not being able to make any difference at all). You need a healthy balance, which I suggest would be that more than 50% of the eligible UK population vote in a General Election. I think if less than 50% vote, the result is not representative of the majority of the population. If 100% of the population voted, that would tell me we were in a dictatorship!
Problem number 2 is that whilst I think "none of the above" would be a very viable option, the problem is that if you put it as an option, and then force everyone to vote, when inevitably 75% of the votes counted are for "none of the above", what happens then? TOTAL ANARCHY basically! Not something I'd appreciate, even in lieu of the current Labour Government...
I also think it couldn't work in a world where we need to pay taxes and work with other countries: wouldn't it lead to any country adopting it being marginalised and joining the third world (as if we aren't a third world country already!)
Get a grip!
The UK has a very much weakened economy right now, and is going through a massive period of change (as are many other countries worldwide) right now. As a nation, we are in a weaker position when compared to many of our contemporaries than we have been in a long long time, BUT... WE ARE NOT, NOR WILL WE EVER BE (at least in our lifetimes), a third world country!
The Conservative Party are a decent opposition? All they do is support / or are supported by the popular headlines of the 'Red tops' without any substance, although I agree that the ID cards thing is a joke.
I do think that the current governemnt is a joke, and their economic legacy leaves a bad taste, but IMO any other government would have followed the same route, its all globalisation isn't it, at the hands of the lying multi-national corporations.
A decent opposition is one that would grow some balls, but unfortunately that would mean transforming the opinions of 70% of the population as it would mean so many concessions of what we've all gotten used to, including multiple bikes, trail centres and a nice car on low priced fuel to get there in than less than 3 hours from London
Change the parliament to PR, and then I'll agree with you on compulsory voting. With a FPTP system, compulsory voting would make no discernible difference to the outcome of the vote in large swathes of the country.
mboy - agree with your post.
Sad that people are too apathetic to vote.
Agree that 100% (or 120%!) turnout would be highly suspect, and that a less than 50% turnout would be less than a mandate, but it I think it would be better for this country if most of us cast our vote.
The question of what we would do if 75% of voters said 'none of the above' is open to question: it would be nice (but rather innocent) to think it wouldn't happen.
What if they changed the rules to say that less than the majority of the population voted you can't have a majority result?
Given the previous posts about Dan Hannan, MEP, I thought that some other people might have been along: Stoner and CFH, and of course RudeBoy...
Spoiling your ballot doesn't work though, as it is not representative of you not liking a specific candidate. Take the 2007 Scottish elections, where 150,000 papers were spoilt, up tenfold on the 1999 elections.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6232160.stm ]Link[/url]
Democracy at work indeed.
Sorry, previous posts overtook mine.
Yes, the Conservative Party ARE a decent opposition: even if you only look at scrapping ID cards. Fancy paying £300 - £500 pounds for your ID card? then vote Labour. Fancy having to give all the details of your holiday to the government? Then vote Labour.
Third world country?
North Staffs Hospital and Gosport War Memorial Hospital for two examples...
Knife crime and muggings for two more?
Ever been abroad and felt safer than you do in this country? I feel safer EVERY time I go abroad (except where I live now is lovely)
Yes, the Conservative Party ARE a decent opposition
With all the political threads on here at the moment, this was the funniest line.
Both tory and Labour are two ends of the same stick. A complete change of politics is required.
Third world country?North Staffs Hospital and Gosport War Memorial Hospital for two examples...
Knife crime and muggings for two more?
Ever been abroad and felt safer than you do in this country? I feel safer EVERY time I go abroad (except where I live now is lovely)
Eeeesh! *bangs head against the wall*
Without wishing to get all PC on the term "3rd World" (which is defunct these days anyway, it's "developing countries"), we are not 3rd World by any stretch of the imagination.
A badly run hopsital or two, a few gun and knife crimes, that makes us 3rd World does it? It makes for an undesirable situation indeed, but it doesn't make us 3rd World (otherwise the USA would have been 3rd World for decades now!). 3rd World was used to denote those countries that were not developed economically, industrially, in their healthcare, standard of living, standard of education etc etc. Whilst I would love that the UK healthcare was significantly better than it is, education improved, crime was non-existent and we had a booming manufacturing industry, I'm also a realist! In any society there are extremes at both ends of a scale, but for the mostpart the average UK citizen has a very cushy and very sheltered life compared to most other countries in the world. This coming from someone who's been on the dole for almost 4 months now as I've not had a job in that long, and whilst I'm more skint than I've ever been, I'm glad I'm jobless in the UK where we have a benefits and welfare system that at least partially works!
Oh, and for the doubters, the problem with seeing the Conservative party as anything but a decent opposition is down to decades old prejudice. It's also a result of total apathy, and the view that "all politicians are the same" which the majority seem to hold. The moment the masses get off their asses and start doing something about trying to improve this country, instead of just abusing those that do try, is the moment progress should start happening. But then after all, we are British, and it's in our nature to moan but never actually do anything about a situation when push comes to shove! 😉
In an ideal world people not voting (through choice) is a good thing. Politicians should be aware that there are more than enough previously inactive voters out there to really F their S up should a big enough issue/desire for change come along that brings people to the polls
Somehow I doubt they are aware though. Funny that
Given the daft schemes that come about when elections are near, I'd like to see a system where the weight of your vote is proportionate to your intellect. That way, silly ideas wouldn't come forward just to win votes from a large number of numpties