[Closed] Should Theresa May resign?

I presume you're a Jezza fan then, jamba?

Sounding just like the Marr interview -
“What about your policy ?”
“Well Labour ...”

Marr was being v smart - different league to Peston

Each question was leading/awkward with the obvious build up to the sack Bojo final trump card

May handled that but ok but has no vision nor strategy to focus on. She is overwhelmed by Brexshit as any PM would be butbisnt good enough anyway.

Who is on either front bench?

I can just about think of 2

The world remains overwhelmed with debt. No easy solutions. Hence populist clap trap wins the day with Trump being the most appalling example

Can we have a coalition of national unity please? All major parties, sort out Brexit one way or another. And sack BoJo now.

Hence populist clap trap wins the day

The trouble with populist claptrap is that when people see FTSE chief execs, hospital bosses, university vice chancellors etc all handing themselves huge salaries and bonuses for no perceived improvement in performance then they too will start to demand the same. It's all very well you guys in your elite ivory towers lecturing the proles about what's best for them, but restraint and realism needs to be lead from the top, and there's very little of that going on right now.

Absolutely clear where his heart and allegence lies. You can”t execute his agenda whilst

Well Corb's been going on and on about dialogue and governing by consensus, so his agenda will be to find a consensus, not push his own personal programme. Might be an alien concept to a Tory.

Is it worth pointing out that Corbyn is wrong about EU rules preventing nationalisation of industries?

Ok - dazh feed the “proles” snake oil and false dreams instead. Will they be better off?

If they “make America great” again then you might be correct. Over here it’s led us into Brexshit instead!!!

Things can only get better 😯

Ok - dazh feed the “proles” snake oil and false dreams instead. Will they be better off?

How dare the lower orders complain about the medicine they're getting.

So you don't agree there needs "restraint and realism ...to be lead from the top, and there's very little of that going on right now."

Their correct to complain for sure. But what they need is honesty not false promises

The trouble with populist claptrap

Is that it’s still claptrap - and a more devious form

teamhurtmore - Member
Their correct to complain for sure. But what they need is honesty not false promises

Fair to piddling

Theresa May has admitted a change in her party's approach on tuition fees in England, saying she has listened to voters and fees will freeze at £9,250.
Fee repayment thresholds will also rise, so graduates will start paying back loans once they earn £25,000, rather than £21,000, the PM said.
She said the whole student finance system would be reviewed and did not rule out a move to a graduate tax.
Labour, which wants to scrap tuition fees, called the plan "desperate".

The planned £250 increase in tuition fees for 2018-19 to £9,500 will not go ahead and fees will instead remain at the current maximum of £9,250 per year.

The more interesting point - perhaps the only one - was the disappointment that the tertiary education sector has so far done little to respond in terms of changing types/lengths and structure of courses. They still hide behind the silly idea that there would be a “comprehensive”/ single price which is barking.

Still we may be heading back to the days of everyone funding the middle classes to further themselves 😉

Same old story, those-who-will-never-vote-tory describe latest Tory party leader as -the-absolute-worst-ever

Order order covered the recent YouGov poll - Boris clear favourite for leader should May be replaced. Rudd and Hammond far behind

https://order-order.com/2017/10/01/hammond-rudd-bomb-tory-focus-group/

While demand is all but unlimited and marginal costs are zero it's hardly a shock that unis are all charging as much as they can and taking all the students they can get their hands on. I've been hearing stories of lecturers having to give the same lecture twice because the lecture room isn't physically large enough to house this year's intake.

Many Unis are simply taking the piss

The beauty of fees is this in now becoming more transparent. But they are good lobbyists

Yes those degrees that have all that content in them and are valued across the world, many of which need to be accredited. Wind it back though, straight economics - add a fee, charge 6% on the loan and then structure it so that most will never pay it off. How is that different to the government paying a substantial amount more in fees. On top of that how does it stimulate the economy when grads are chucking a sizeable amount into a debt they will never pay off, given the cost of things like food and houses perhaps it would be good if that cash could go into giving them a start post uni.

Still we may be heading back to the days of everyone funding the middle classes to further themselves

Remind me again how is the UK going to attract nurses?
http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/adult-nursing/fees-and-funding.html

2017/18 fees for this course

Fee category Amount
Home (UK and EU students) £9,250*

Applications by students in England to nursing and midwifery courses at British universities have fallen by 23% after the government abolished NHS bursaries, figures show.

Same old story, those-who-will-never-vote-tory describe latest Tory party leader as -the-absolute-worst-ever

Order order covered the recent YouGov poll - Boris clear favourite for leader should May be replaced. Rudd and Hammond far behind

Fascinating Frank Luntz focus group on the Sunday Politics asking Tory voters their thoughts on potential leadership contenders. Terrible viewing for Hammond (“so boring, so dull, bland”), and bad too for the great Remain hope Amber Rudd (“not leadership material, she’s backroom staff”). Better for Boris (“underneath it he’s very, very intelligent”), though it was the Mogg and David Davis who were most popular. Nobody in the room wanted May to fight the next election…

If I were a right wing nut job, I think I’d be unhappy with a leader who duped me into thinking there’s be a 150 seat majority and left me with such a flaccid feeling on election night.

[quote=jambalaya ]Same old story, those-who-will-never-vote-tory describe latest Tory party leader as -the-absolute-worst-ever

Who is/was the worst ever Tory PM in your opinion?

Over here it’s led us into Brexshit instead!!!

Hang on, I thought you'd come over all "respecting the will of the people" on that topic of late.

As for tuition fees, I'm almost convinced it's just a stealth tax by design. Most students will never pay them off at current rates. So, shifting higher ed funding from direct treasury money to via students themselves, some of which will be paid back is still better than none of it being paid back by grants. Just a pity no one in the government has the foresight to realise the total clusterfudge it's left younger generations when coupled with the price of housing and crap job security. That, and the fact that on average, a university educated worker would pay a lot more in tax over their lifetime anyway.

Better for Boris (“underneath it he’s very, very intelligent”)

I'm guessing none of them have ever asked Ian Hislop about Boris.

Boris clear favourite for leader should May be replaced.

Oh and I see May is still bleating on about "A country that works for everyone". I will never accept the Tories have that as a priority.

mikewsmith - Member

Fee repayment thresholds will also rise, so graduates will start paying back loans once they earn £25,000, rather than £21,000, the PM said.

Which is awesome, because already the increase from £3290 to £9000 per year has been forecast to be roughly cost-neutral, because of the massive decrease in repayments that came with it- we loaned more but recovered about the same while pretending the loan book is worth several times more than it is- subprime for students.

This change will without a doubt mean that it ends up cost-negative and kids are saddled with these debts for literally no reason other than to fiddle the books and pretend a chunk of national debt doesn't exist.

THE are working on a more detailed breakdown (since the government's response to falling repayment rates and the financial illiteracy of the £9000 fee structure has been to simply stop publishing their forecasts, mysteriously at the exact point we predicted that it would prove to have increased costs). However there's very little doubt that the current tuition fee of £9250 is, over the life of the loan, going to be more expensive to the public purse than just leaving fees at £3290.

Hang on, I thought you'd come over all "respecting the will of the people" on that topic of late

Of late??

I don’t like Brexshit for sure. But I’m in a minority, so yes I do respect - or at least accept - the will of the people. The people get what they deserve.

This change will without a doubt mean that it ends up cost-negative and kids are saddled with these debts for literally no reason other than to fiddle the books and pretend a chunk of national debt doesn't exist.

Better that users have to deal with the debt than non-users who can’t afford it anyway. Perhaps the users could demand sensible changes and more flexible forms of tertiary education instead many stale offerings

Ask why state pensions are treated in current manner and re-ask fiddling the books !!

Order order covered the recent YouGov poll - Boris clear favourite for leader should May be replaced. Rudd and Hammond far behind

Of the 4, May is/was by far the most electable. Boris would never make it to a GE- far too gaff-prone.

Have we mentioned that Labour are ahead by 4 points in the latest YouGov?

Fee repayment thresholds will also rise, so graduates will start paying back loans once they earn £25,000, rather than £21,000, the PM said.

I agree but if she thinks this will win her the youth vote she is even less capable than I thought.

I agree but if she thinks this will win her the youth vote she is even less capable than I thought.

😀

"Hey kids, come vote for us! We promise we won't charge you any more than 9 grand a year to go to uni and you won't have to pay back your loans until you're earning just below the national average wage".

teamhurtmore - Member

Better that users have to deal with the debt than non-users who can’t afford it anyway.

I'm sorry, did you not understand that I'm talking about the cost to the public purse? I thought I'd explained that pretty clearly but sometimes it's hard to get that quite right when you're a subject expert explaining something unintuitive to people who aren't.

Yes. Do you not understand who funds the public purse?.

You made it loud and clear thanks

As an aside, imagine a Uni outside, lets say the top 25 in the UK, what are they/should they be doing to compete with better Unis?

Or what young people would feel like if they voted for a party who pretended that they would cancel fees and outstanding debt and the went, oops, sorry?

teamhurtmore - Member

Yes. Do you not understand who funds the public purse?.

Is it a) "users have to deal with the debt" as you said, or is it b) general taxation including non-users?

Or what young people would feel like if they voted for a party who pretended that they would cancel fees and outstanding debt and the went, oops, sorry?

You argue much better when you aren't conflating/confusing an idea in a single interview with a pop magazine with 'policy' or manifesto. Unless you are suggesting that university students are too poorly educated to tell the difference? Cos obviously you can, why else would you make such a remark?

Is Theresa May still PM?

You are the expert here NW, you tell me..

Unless you are suggesting that university students are too poorly educated to tell the difference

Not me. But some are clearly saying that, indeed relying on it. And there’s precedent too - July 2017 or last week with the PFI catastrophe

Ok, so TMs major policy announcement is anything but at least there is a slight chance of it becoming policy. Unlike..,,,

Is Theresa May still PM?

I don’t think so. I was told last week that labour won the last election

But some are clearly saying that, indeed relying on it

Er, who?

Students are smart enough to know Julian - hence “reading” for a degree

They are also smart enough to realise a finger of fudge is not just enough

No really thm. Who is 'saying that and relying on it'?
Traditionally in online debate, this is the point where you post a link to explain the assertion.

sorry-double post

Not sure she still is PM been invisible since the election, her big speech to an empty venue in Florence, went well.

Let’s see what Times HES said last week

But perhaps the biggest single difference between this year and last is that more people are turning up to ask about the details. Everyone in the sector would like more detail – from the NUS and the UCU to university groups and learned societies – and they naturally have suggestions for what that detail might be. [b]However, not only is that absent, it remains a long, long way below the headline promises that the Labour faithful love to hear and that are continuing to driving both Labour and Conservative politics. [/b]

[u]No matter then that some of the claims about level and overall volume of debt and the subsequent impact on working-class applicants, students and graduates have been questioned by, [/u]among others, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and BBC Radio 4's More or Less.

[b]Even John McDonnell's big speech yesterday fluffed some of the detailed numbers, according to a fact check by Channel 4. But no one really cared very much. Even the cost of scrapping debt – he put it at £10 billion each year – didn't seem that big[/b], given he'd just promised to end PFI; nationalise railways, water, electricity and Royal Mail; build HS2 to Scotland, Crossrail for the North; and electrification for every train line everywhere else.

Ice and a slice with your snake oil?

Very good thm. Now please think back to your post at the end of the last page and explain where one interview with nme gets confused with policy/manifesto and who confused it.

It is right and proper that people including students who voted labour should be questioning the detail. Snake oil indeed. Sounds like politics continues as usual.

However you do this argument no favours at all when you can post unsubstantiated comments like your original one. No one thought it was policy at the time, and there will no doubt be plenty of other actual real policy/manifesto u-turns and myths busted open to be disappointed about should we have a labour government in 2 years' time. ...so why not start with the facts in the first place and work from there? You could have saved yourself four posts in here if you'd just made that last point on the last page.