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Mike if it’s not May it will be more pro Leave Brexiteer. That’s the reality, Remainers here wanting her gone need to be careful what they are wishing for. That’s been pointed out by Binners and others earlier in this thread.
True but with a spirited defence like that does she hold any power or authority any more? Leadership challenge etc has a fair chance of ending this minority government then we the real fight begins.
Corbyn wanted to trigger A50 on June 24th, 2016.
Good for him. As he's not in power, nor is he the subject of this thread, I'd suggest that's an irrelevant fact (and I use the term in the Trump sense of the word), even by your standards.
Interested that the argument above (that TM should simply have lied) gets such positive responses. Says a lot.
Who gave a positive response to that particular facet?
What happened to the days when politicians had the good grace to resign? They all seem to brass it out as long as possible, even when their position is untenable. She looks like a trapped ghost.
How long can May go on repeating variations of the same sentence. What next appearances in Greggs, Strictly or a royal family style docu-soap (at home with Mrs May, walking the dogs that kind of thing) to appeal to your average British pleb with an attention span measured in picoseconds. TBH she's doing more of an Obama hide and seek, stage managed appearances kept to a bare minimum.
Lets have a proper Tory **** in charge, one that will really show their teeth 😈
Corbyn wanted to trigger A50 on June 24th, 2016. I think you’d find we’d be in a trickier place now had he done so certainly if you are a Soft Brexiteer / Remainer
Keir Starmer. That is all.
Maybot is flying out to Brussels to try and urge on the talks.
I can only assume that she's hoping that she will be pitied enough that the EU will give her a break.
An interesting technique for a PM, still could be worse, can you imagine what they'd say to Johnson, or Mogg, or Give, or Leadsome.....
It's almost like they don't really want to do it and are just continuing with the pretense because they're more scared of the fall out from disappointing the Brexiteers than the Remainers
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/this-dangerous-deadlock-is-a-delight-to-the-brextremists ]Andrew Rawnsley sums up her pathetic weakness and the damage its doing[/url] in Yesterdays Observer and hits the nail on the head, as usual
[i]
Who is to blame for this stalemate? The answer you get depends on where you put the question. From EU capitals, you hear the understandable contention that it is extremely hard to negotiate with Britain when its riven government hasn’t finished negotiating with itself. It doesn’t help that Mrs May is desperately weak. Recent events have compounded the impression that she is a lame duck, one crisis away from having the last crutch kicked from under her.
Key European players ask why they should spend any of their political capital trying to progress the negotiations when they can’t be confident that Mrs May will still be sitting on the other side of the table come Christmas.[/i]
I find myself in the weird position of wanting her to stay. Because the next PM will be chosen by the doddering, senile, backward-gazing, Mail reading racists that constitute the Tory Party membership. So who gets anointed by that shower of ****s doesn't bear thinking about
[quote=binners ]I find myself in the weird position of wanting her to stay. Because the next PM will be chosen by the doddering, senile, backward-gazing, Mail reading racists that constitute the Tory Party membership. So who gets anointed by that shower of ****s doesn't bear thinking about
We know who the obvious options are - though I can't help thinking that it would end up being somebody we don't expect.
She's a bit like Donny though - she might be incompetent, but she's ineffective and incompetent unlike some of the alternatives.
Actually a bigger problem is the lack of reasonable candidates. Remember last time the MPs whittled themselves down to a single candidate, no need for a members vote.
Maybot is flying out to Brussels to try and urge on the talks.
It’s all a bit odd this negotiating stuff I thought you just hired a hall somewhere abroad and made a speech.
Perhaps she should have been like there.
I don’t believe Mrs T would have arsed about like this bunch(nope she’s not my hero)
It’s all a bit odd this negotiating stuff I thought you just hired a hall somewhere abroad and made a speech.
No, no no! You turn up, bit of chit chat, have some photos taken with you grinning like a simpleton, then simply hop on the plane back home. Sorted!
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[quote=binners ]No, no no! You turn up, bit of chit chat, have some photos taken with you grinning like a simpleton, then simply hop on the plane back home. Sorted!
The brilliant bit about that is there's no need to encumber yourself with any notes or other documents. Maybe just a little black book for your PA to keep track of your assignations.
Maybe just a little black book for your PA to keep track of your assignations.
Who is leaning back hoping not to be noticed?
He's got the grin of a man who thinks he's getting away with it.
We've all been in meeting with him, he tries to bluster around the content and at the end does a 'summary' and then walks away with no intention to do anything until the next meeting.
And no-one's fooled in the slightest.
So May makes a phonecall to Merkel
and the next day her allies start briefing against Johnson
has May suddenly learnt how to play the game or do we think merkel threw her a bone out of pity?
has May suddenly learnt how to play the game or do we think merkel threw her a bone out of pity?
or kicking Borris into a now or never move.
It would be interesting to actually find out how many diehard cliff-edge Brexiteer tory MPs there are compared to moderates like Hammond. I suspect this is the real reason Boris has bottled the last two opportunities to make his move.
Boris Johnson is universally loathed throughout the corridors of power in Europe. This goes back to his time as a journalist (prior to being sacked for making stuff up) where he would spend his time making up anti-EU stories about bendy/non-bendy bananas, and other such crap.
European leaders were incredulous that she appointed him foreign secretary. As were the rest of us.
She should have sacked him weeks ago. She's going to end up having to at some point, where he will go on to pursue his chosen role as Brexit Martyr fighting for freedom from EU Dictatorship/Scheming self-absorbed, narcissistic Lying POS (delete as applicable)
He's no chance of the leadership now though, under the existing rules. He has to get through the MPs before he can get to the vote by the senile old racists of the Tory membership, who love him. And if he had a sniff of that before (unlikely), its completely gone after his antics of the last few weeks
Interested that the argument above (that TM should simply have lied) gets such positive responses. Says a lot.
that's not what anyone said though, is it? what was said was 'she can't even lie', not 'she should have lied'. it is you who accuses others of making stuff up on that 'other thread', isn't it?
personally i would have thought a simple 'i was in the remain camp, and campaigned for us to stay in the EU, but now here we are, and i have to deliver a solution for the country that makes the best of things' would have done the job well enough.
it's not 'she should have lied', it's 'can't think quick enough on her feet to deflect even a simple question when you spot the follow up'.
i suppose if we're going to be generous we could give her 1 point for spotting the obvious next question. 🙄
not feeling generous.
she's apparently the best we've got and she's a clot.
[quote=Del ]it's not 'she should have lied', it's [s]'can't think quick enough on her feet to deflect even a simple question when you spot the follow up'.[/s] not being prepared for a really obvious question
I would really like to know what she promised Merkel in that phone call,
but I suppose thats between the PM, Merkel & the CIA monitoring team
I wonder if May promised to deliver Brexit by offering up the £60bn ish divorce bill at the very last, knowing that it would cost her the PM job as the brexies & RW press would throw a shitfit
leaving her successor to come in and lead the Tories elated from their last minute save of the talks, even if ' May's giveaway ' left a bad taste
all aslong as Merkel made sure Johnson wasnt that successor
or is that all to devious for someone as naive as May?
Tory power is only sustained by cruel confidence tricks...
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/17/tory-power-sustained-cruel-confidence-tricks?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard ]Frankie Boyle[/url]
Does seem viable way out for her paying the 60billion then falling on her sword for the good of the Tory party.
I very much doubt she promised Merkel anything - and certainly not the 60 billion
regarding the alleged leak yesterday
its the line about her shaking with laughter that makes it ring true
Yesterday the German journalist Thomas Gutschker stirred things up admirably when he published an article in Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAZ) with a vivid, “insider” account of Theresa May’s dinner last week with Jean-Claude Juncker. As this passage (from Nina Schick’s translation) shows, it did not reflect well on May.[b]Theresa May seemed anxious to the president of the commission, despondent and discouraged. A woman who hardly dares trust anybody, but is not ready for an act of liberation either. May’s facial expressions and appearance spoke volumes — that’s how Juncker later described it to his colleagues. Everyone can see it: the prime minister is drawn from the struggle within her own party. She has deep circles under her eyes. She looks like someone who does not sleep for nights on end. She rarely laughs, though clearly, she has to for the photographers. But it looks forced. Previously, May could literally pour out laughter —[u] her whole body shaking[/u]. Now she has to use her utmost strength to avoid losing her composure.
[/b]
Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission president, said the report was not true.But in the Times (paywall) today Rachel Sylvester describes May in similar terms. Sylvester’s column includes this astonishing anecdote.
[b]Those who have seen Mrs May privately in recent weeks describe her as stricken and stunned. On one occasion she sat in silence for almost ten minutes while the visitor she had invited to see her waited for her to lead the conversation. He left the meeting deciding she no longer wanted to be prime minister. The internal contradiction of her position must be taking an emotional as well as a political toll[/b].
this version of Theresa May seems to have dissapeared
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firmware update.
Good.
I hope she suffers every minute of the day.
+1 Zippy
I do feel sorry for her, insofar as I am capable of showing empathy for someone who thinks that a 55p per minute helpline for people claiming benefits is morally acceptable.
The lack of empathy displayed by Conservative Party MPs is astounding. Every day that the current party split between the right and the hard right continues damages their long term prospects even further.
PJM1974 - Member
I do feel sorry for her, insofar as I am capable of showing empathy for someone who thinks that a 55p per minute helpline for people claiming benefits is morally acceptable.
But
The lack of empathy displayed by Conservative Party MPs is astounding.
Really?? The lack of empathy is normal and expected, it's not astounding it's what the tories are all about.
Said it before and confirmed by the old Tory grandees- they are literally dying, with a party membership of sub 100k that is dying off at 10% per annum.
They have no one capable of capturing the younger (sub 50) vote, this group compromised of the younger element, remainers and old school labour will not vote for a Boris or a Gove or a Fox. They are a zombie political party and they know it.
And the old party members will give it the final blow when they vote a Boris in. Let them crack on we need this hard rain to wash away these dinosaurs
Really?? The lack of empathy is normal and expected, it's not astounding it's what the tories are all about.
Let me qualify that.
It's a given that any Tory government is going to be a bunch of complete and utter bastards, but since the referendum there's been a wholesale and noticeable swing further in that general direction. All of a sudden, folk like Bernard Jenkin, Priti Patel and John Redwood are being taken seriously. We've even seen the Prime Minister's pet newspaper (until she botched the election at any rate) endorse the French National Front candidate on their own front page.
John Major's government is positively fluffy and cuddly in comparison.
John Major's government is positively fluffy and cuddly in comparison.
How long till Thatcher is denounced as a socialist!
The fact is those of us who voted remain need to sit back and let this catastrophe unfold, if we fight to stop Brexit we will be blamed for every piece of shit that happens for the next 50 years.
I am old enough and have been on the receiving end of enough crap to understand that sometimes you have to let the full consequences take effect and then and only then can you go about fixing it.
Step away, don't engage, don't support, look after you and yours.
oldmanmtb - Member
The fact is those of us who voted remain need to sit back and let this catastrophe unfold, if we fight to stop Brexit we will be blamed for every piece of shit that happens for the next 50 years.
Why, what good would come with it? I'd rather be blamed for the supposed problems from a bunch of soon to be dead right wingers than cause it.
I am old enough and have been on the receiving end of enough crap to understand that sometimes you have to let the full consequences take effect and then and only then can you go about fixing it.
Even of this sets the UK back 20 years, triggers a full recession and kills industry? What are you prepared to sacrifice? Your pension? A retirement? 20, 30, 40% from your investments??
Step away, don't engage, don't support, look after you and yours.
What if looking after yourself is to look after the greater good?
The fact is those of us who voted remain need to sit back and let this catastrophe unfold, if we fight to stop Brexit we will be blamed for every piece of shit that happens for the next 50 years.
I just hope that one day we stop protecting those who've been responsible for the current shambles and make them accountable to a court of inquiry.
Or string the ****ers up.
Or string the **** up.
While I sympathise with any sentiment to the ends of removing the "bastards" from positions of authority, the very last thing this country needs is another Robespierre. The very best outcome is that the far right becomes a political irrelevance and those who've provided the wealth to fund the lobbying platform which is driving greater inequality and who've funded the campaign of "alternative facts" are made accountable and forcibly separated from their assets.
[quote=PJM1974 ]the very last thing this country needs is another Robespierre.
Obviously.
Cos it sounds foreign
In a further warping of the order of things Guido is now the champion of exposing mysoginy....
https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest-mps/
May might be outlasting several of her MPs
She's just gotta hope any MPs that might have to step down have a similar number of lab/lib dem sleazebags
That said DUP might not be getting their £bn bribe either
https://www.ft.com/content/8f12afca-bb26-11e7-8c12-5661783e5589
The best bit about the GF link is the comment section - apparently it is all a remainer conspiracy!
ffs.
Yeah the comments were an eye-opener, makes you realise that Gene Hunts didn't all go extinct in the 80s
As if May didn't think her year could get any worse
Those Brexit dinosaurs are gonna shit the bed if by- elections start happening
I could see Sheffield going yellow again soon, but any Tory seats will be extra vulnerable
events, dear boy!
the tory press are not are not amused
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the tories were morons to put her in the job in the 1st place
The thing is she had a TERRIBLE record as home secretary, error after error after error. I wouldnt trust Theresa May to deliver a pizza, let alone Brexit that so many people thought that she was up to the job of PM in the first place is mind boggling,
heres a small list of her record as home sec.............
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/22/go-home-billboards-pulled
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/theresa-admits-heard-stories-child-9078255
https://order-order.com/2016/07/02/telegraph-pulled-article-critical-theresa-may-campaign-pressure/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27753394
(sorry includes DM & order-order link)
I am astonished she still is clinging on. Even if your lifes ambition is to be PM this must be horrible
The tories are f*****. The only reason she's clinging on is there's no one to replace her who could win an election. They've given up and are now looking to winning the election after next and have made a cynical calculation that they'll deliver a chaotic brexit, hand over the reigns to Corbyn to deal with the mess, then blame him when the election comes round again. The fact that the country will be screwed and millions will suffer as a result of tory election strategy is largely irrelevant.
in the meantime Labour don't want it either because of exactly that; they'd rather let the tories totally lose it, then they'll have 2/3 terms to play a long game.
Who's vaguely qualified and would do almost anything to be in #10?
What's Nick Clegg doing now?
Corbyn is desperate to take over a post-brexit Britain. He and McDonnell see it as a perfect opportunity to rip everything up and start again with a new socialist agenda. They're revolutionaries (McDonnell more than Corbyn), and revolutionaries thrive on chaos. Brexit is a gift to them. The question is whether they can start to turn things around before the election after next comes round and avoid being blamed by the tories for whatever happens post-brexit.
The Tories are still blaming everything on Labour's World Financial Crisis but wouldn't put it past them to blame Brexit on Labour aswell.
So would the tory press prefer a labour leave or a tory remain?
I still find it incredible the liberal Democrats aren't doing better during all this, the mainstream press certainly don't help, but still...
I’ve never had any time for the Tories but she’s especially incapable and cannot connect with the people. She seems wooden and alien to me. She makes me think of Roald Dahls ‘The Witches’. Corbyn was criticised for being dull but look how he inspires passion in people now.
She comes across as incredibly stubborn. They will have to cut her free from the railings of number ten when she’s finally voted out.
Be careful what you ask for. If not May if will be Boris or Gove with an outside chance of Leadsom or even Patel. Rudd and Hammond are very unpopular with the membership. Davies has ruled himself out.
Speaking to party members I know they think the Boris story around Iran is nonsense. Most believe the woman was there on a politically orinetated mission (as Boris inadvertently suggested) and its her own fault she’s in jail. It’s not the UK Government’s job to bail people out of a mess made of their own stupidity.
It’s not the UK Government’s job to bail people out of a mess made of their own stupidity
That's sort of what the foreign office is supposed to do.
Funnily enough that seems to be the governments attitude to Brexit too! They certainly don't seem to be trying to bail us out of own stupidity...
Yes that's a fair assessment of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe's case. A person who works for an established charity, travelling with a baby is on a politically orientated mission.
deleted, I'm not spending today of all days arguing on line with a troll like you
Be careful what you ask for. If not May if will be
Not a tory. She goes the government is finished.
As for bojo and Iran despite what people say or think he is an idiot who just made some bodies position much worse for no good reason. It's the job of out leading diplomat the learn how to deal with tricky situations without saying the wrong thing.
its certainly not the foreign secretary role to dob her in resulting in more jail time- He is meant to be a master of diplomacy and that case is impossible to make for this bumbling racist **** wit.
TBH what he did was indefensible [ even if it was true and it is not] and will most likely lead to her doing more jail time
Boris did not inadvertently state anything he said he misspoke/other misinterpreted hm so he did not mean to say it so you cannot defend him that way. Even he accepts what he said was not the truth ...Lordy those tory members dont half like clutching at illogical straws.
The sort of people who will defend that really are the scum of the earth.[ not aimed at jamby for the mods benefits as he did not state his opinion]A woman is in prison about to do more time FFS even by tory standards not GAS is heartless in the extreme. Our foreign secretary got more time for a British citizen in a foreign jail by being wrong. How can anyone defend that - even i am shocked by their lack of compassion
As for may I was struck by how its sort of like Brown and Blair
Dave is Blair - destroyed by his own hubris - media presentable and smug to within an inch of his life
May is Brown the ministers daughter with no emotion and limited, if any, talent for the job.
She is only there because no one else wants it and she is the weakest PM i have ever seen. Brown lacked warmth she lack warmth , control and skill.
At least Brown had some intellect and was vaguely competent.
I really don't understand why May is clinging on - this must be torture for her
and she is the weakest PM i have ever seen
The Major Govt was uncannily like this, a mix of pro and anti euro MPs openly fighting like rats in a sack, with sex scandals thrown in occasionally.
It staggered on for 5 years...
The Major government looked competent compared to this shower.
I have been a political geek for 40+ years. I have never seen anything like this before. Not the end of Callaghan. not Major. Nothing to compare to this shambles
I think she should resign now. She is having to pick replacement ministers along factional lines within her party FFS.
With any luck this is going to end the Tories.
excellent call and also PM because of who he was not rather than who he wasThe Major Govt was uncannily like this
Boris as Heseltine obvs.
At least Major managed some kind of majority in an election. Briefly. This shower don't even have that to fall back on.
Truly a government of none of the talents.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/11/labour-corbyn-cbi-conference-business-leaders ]Christ she's even lost the CBI[/url]. Can it get any worse?
Yeah was funny that nadhim zahawi, kept trying to steer the subject onto May's wonderfully received CBI speech on all the junkets defending Patel, when all the reporting had said Corbyn was much better received !?!
The Tory's association with Brexit has blown their credibility out off the water
Speaking to party members I know they think the Boris story around Iran is nonsense.
If Tory members say so, it must be true.
Speaking to party members I know they think the Boris story around Iran is nonsense. Most believe the woman was there on a politically orinetated mission (as Boris inadvertently suggested) and its her own fault she’s in jail. It’s not the UK Government’s job to bail people out of a mess made of their own stupidity.
What a beautiful person you are.
Even if it turns out she was 'training journalists' I'm pretty sure it's not the job of the British foreign secretary to make the situation of a U.K. national in a foreign jail worse.
Jamby, your posts are just desperate now, mate.
I can't help but feel how terrified the poor woman in Egypt facing trial for having prescription painkillers feels, knowing that at any moment Boris might be rushing to fight her corner.
I want her gone, the Tories out of office and Labour in office.
That's petty much the only chance the NHS and other social structures have left.
Tories are Darwinist at best. Can't abide what they stand for.
Interesting look at Theresa's tenacity
Tories won’t engineer / allow another early election. The last one was called by May and those two advisor idiots who drew up the campaign and the terrible manifesto. Too much Brexit uncertainty to go to the polls again now before ‘22
If May pulls off her vision of a transition to custom free trade deal and/or WTO Brexit she’ll be safe. Her risk is a messy soft Brexit, the Tory membership will crucify her for that
No chance at all of any custom deal. WTO "no deal" will not get thru parliament nor will it keep the DUP on side. Enough torys have a bit of brains and courage to stop it knowing how suicidal it will be for the UK. The tories won't "engineer" it - in the event of crashing out ( or attempting to do so) the government will simply collapse for want of a majority
10 tories have already put their name to an amendment that would mean a "no deal" scenario will be voted down on the floor of parliament
Jamba it’s her cliff edge brexit that will bring her down. At some point the remainer tories will put country before party. If corbyn as PM is the price of avoiding a WTO brexit they’ll take it.
And if she does hang on, the longer she does, the worse it will be. Every new crisis sends more voters to other parties. Just like with major, they’ll be punished by the electorate. If waiting a couple of years means corbyn will have a solid majority, then that’s worth it.
Sadiq Khan on Marr -I respect the vote but still want membership of the SM and CU
When will politicians get a grip of the basics? We have chose to end our membership and we are negotiating our future access. It’s not hard to get the basics right.
Have to put up with Gove next 😯
If May pulls off her vision of a transition to custom free trade deal and/or WTO Brexit she’ll be safe. Her risk is a messy soft Brexit, the Tory membership will crucify her for that
In the link in the EU thread, Honda pretty much say that if we default to WTO, their business model in the U.K. doesn't work. So there's instantly 5000+ jobs gone plus all the tax revenues etc.
